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View Full Version : Article: Umpire’s Error Jeopardizes Minnesota Twins' Chance at Sweep in Los Angeles



bwille
07-25-2013, 10:54 AM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=2127-Umpire’s-Error-Jeopardizes-Minnesota-Twins-Chance-at-Sweep-in-Los-Angeles

Old Twins Cap
07-25-2013, 11:34 AM
I haven't seen the play on TV, but, I did look at the Twins lineup. Even if the umpire makes the right call there, you have runners at 1st and 2nd, one out, and absolutely no possibility of scoring a run with the Twins lineup. Sad but true.

Tibs
07-25-2013, 11:47 AM
I haven't seen the play on TV, but, I did look at the Twins lineup. Even if the umpire makes the right call there, you have runners at 1st and 2nd, one out, and absolutely no possibility of scoring a run with the Twins lineup. Sad but true.

Yeah only having three batters really hurts the Twins. Ghost runners don't count as runs in the MLB, making it hard for the Twins to score consistently if Morneau isn't getting extra base hits.

BCTwins
07-25-2013, 11:50 AM
I haven't seen the play on TV, but, I did look at the Twins lineup. Even if the umpire makes the right call there, you have runners at 1st and 2nd, one out, and absolutely no possibility of scoring a run with the Twins lineup. Sad but true.

I think that the chances would have been good for the Twins to push the tying run across, at least. The next batter, Doumit, walked, which would have meant bases loaded with one out. Hermann then needs to hit a sac fly for the game to be tied.

Of course, Hermann struck out...

orangevening
07-25-2013, 11:51 AM
I haven't seen the play on TV, but, I did look at the Twins lineup. Even if the umpire makes the right call there, you have runners at 1st and 2nd, one out, and absolutely no possibility of scoring a run with the Twins lineup. Sad but true.

Come on. Who thought a back up catcher would hit a grand slam or a light hitting SS would hit a 2 run HR the night before? There pitcher was struggling mighty, it was very feasible they would score a run or two.

Tibs
07-25-2013, 11:58 AM
I haven't seen the play on TV, but, I did look at the Twins lineup. Even if the umpire makes the right call there, you have runners at 1st and 2nd, one out, and absolutely no possibility of scoring a run with the Twins lineup. Sad but true.

Yeah, only having three players in the lineup is really hurting the Twins. Since ghost runners don't count in the MLB, it makes it hard for the Twins to score consistently when Morneau isn't getting extra base hits.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
07-25-2013, 12:06 PM
This type of call is what I HATE to see called wrong. More than a fair/foul, play at the plate/first, or strikes and balls. Not calling the infield fly is the umpire's misunderstanding of the rule and not a call based on what they saw.

SpitefulRabbit617
07-25-2013, 12:39 PM
I bet in this upcoming 4 game series there will be 2 blown calls that go our way.... as long as it isnt the New York Mafia reffing our games and calling doubles foul.

Steve Penz
07-25-2013, 12:42 PM
I haven't seen the play on TV, but, I did look at the Twins lineup. Even if the umpire makes the right call there, you have runners at 1st and 2nd, one out, and absolutely no possibility of scoring a run with the Twins lineup. Sad but true.


I don't see the point to this. Blah, blah....90 loss season. Blah, blah, weak line up. Blah, blah, blah. I get it. It is a tough time. Why lead with such pessimism? Hey, in case anybody was not aware, the Twins have not been very good lately. The point is the team was robbed of an extra out with a person in scoring position that could have lead to a sweep instead of simply winning a series. Winning yesterday's game would not have catapulted the Twins into winning the Central but it could have been a win. All games and outs are important and there is always a chance. I refuse to get pulled into this negative mindset and I hope the Twins feel the same way. If they were to think that way then they may never escape the cellar.

Riverbrian
07-25-2013, 01:28 PM
The Umps blew the call... No question about it... But the call was a distraction for a problem that something can be done about.

Why was Morneau with a 1-0 Count swinging at a ball? Frieri just walked and hit a guy... He started Morneau with a ball. Why is Morning swinging at an inside fastball that would have made the count 2-0?

I understand that #3 hitter is a different mindset but so is the #4 spot. You are not going to crush the ball swinging at something out of the zone.

You got a struggling pitcher... Don't help him!!!

A 2-0 count is gonna make Frieri groove one becuase he cant walk the bases loaded.

Vets should know this. Rookies are the ones who typically struggle with this stuff. Young players try to be heroes and get over aggressive.

Morneau should know better and if our vets are gonna perform like that. We probably ain't going to the playoffs and look at that... We ain't going to the playoffs.

Yeah... I'd like to be pissed at the umps... They blew it... However... Morneau blew it first.

I've seen too much of too much of this.

PSzalapski
07-25-2013, 01:44 PM
I've responded here (http://twinsdaily.com/blogs/pszalapski/4146-infield-fly-if-fair-sometimes-isn-t-fair.html) - short version: bad call, but correcting it after the fact still yields a double play. This needs to be called in the air.

jimbo92107
07-25-2013, 01:46 PM
Question: Can the umpire invoke the infield fly rule after the play is finished, or does he have to make the call while the ball is in the air? If he can make the call after the play, then there is no excuse for not correcting the umpire error. Somebody among the umpiring crew should know the rule well enough to get it right.

jun
07-25-2013, 01:54 PM
The Umps blew the call... No question about it... But the call was a distraction for a problem that something can be done about.

Why was Morneau with a 1-0 Count swinging at a ball? Frieri just walked and hit a guy... He started Morneau with a ball. Why is Morning swinging at an inside fastball that would have made the count 2-0?

I understand that #3 hitter is a different mindset but so is the #4 spot. You are not going to crush the ball swinging at something out of the zone.

You got a struggling pitcher... Don't help him!!!

A 2-0 count is gonna make Frieri groove one becuase he cant walk the bases loaded.

Vets should know this. Rookies are the ones who typically struggle with this stuff. Young players try to be heroes and get over aggressive.

Morneau should know better and if our vets are gonna perform like that. We probably ain't going to the playoffs and look at that... We ain't going to the playoffs.

Yeah... I'd like to be pissed at the umps... They blew it... However... Morneau blew it first.

I've seen too much of too much of this.

Absolutely agree with you!!!

Boom Boom
07-25-2013, 02:10 PM
Agree with Riverbrian - it was a bad call, but focusing on the call as the reason the Twins lost conveniently ignores the fact that Morneau had a bad at-bat in a key spot.

h2oface
07-25-2013, 03:03 PM
There was no reason to swing at all until Frieri managed to throw a strike. Only 2 total hits and bad judgement by a veteran was what I saw. That, and a very smart play by Frieri. Plus, there is no way I would have called an infield fly on that wimpy what ever it was that Morneau hit. Dwelling on a judgement call that could go either way to hope for a win is not in my wheelhouse. If that was a Twins' pitcher, would the song be about how smart and clever he was? I think so.

Steve Penz
07-25-2013, 03:45 PM
Agree with Riverbrian - it was a bad call, but focusing on the call as the reason the Twins lost conveniently ignores the fact that Morneau had a bad at-bat in a key spot.


All of these points are very good and make more sense. A vet like Morneau should have had a smarter approach.

bwille
07-25-2013, 04:07 PM
There was no reason to swing at all until Frieri managed to throw a strike. Only 2 total hits and bad judgement by a veteran was what I saw. That, and a very smart play by Frieri. Plus, there is no way I would have called an infield fly on that wimpy what ever it was that Morneau hit. Dwelling on a judgement call that could go either way to hope for a win is not in my wheelhouse. If that was a Twins' pitcher, would the song be about how smart and clever he was? I think so.

I respectfully disagree that it shouldn't have been called an infield fly. I agree that Morneau shouldn't of swung with Frieri's control issues, that I will not argue; but my argument isn't whether or not Morneau should have swung. Whether or not Morneau swung or whether or not it was a Twins' player or an Angels' player is irrelevant. The bottom line is this: the play should have never been a judgment for the umpire because by rule, it was an infield fly. The language in the official rule book reflects this. Whether it was a high pop up or a wimpy pop up doesn't matter; the important thing to look at is whether or not the play could have been made with ordinary effort, which it could have. Thus, it is an infield fly.

Did the call "cost" the Twins the game? No not exactly, but it certainly jeopardized their chances of scoring a run and possibly winning the game; that fact cannot be ignored. With better plate discipline, could Morneau have changed the outcome? Certainly, but again, that is not what I'm arguing about. The infield fly rule was designed to prevent situations like this where runners are left out to dry. Is it a smart play by Frieri to let that ball drop? Absolutely, but that doesn't make it right. Had the correct call been made, Morneau still can be blamed for swinging when he shouldn't have and the both runners would have been allowed to go back to their bases and this argument never would have existed. That's what should of happened; the fact that it didn't was the premise for my article.

Thank you for the comments though, I appreciate the great discussion!

mnfireman
07-25-2013, 04:08 PM
The infield fly rule has to be called while the ball is in the air, remember the to do in last years playoffs? I also agree that Morneau should not have swung until Frieri threw him a strike. These are the kinds of things that can snowball - a bad at bat by one player leads to a bad at bat by several players, leads to a bad, series, week, month, etc...

h2oface
07-25-2013, 05:33 PM
I respectfully disagree that it shouldn't have been called an infield fly. ............ The bottom line is this: the play should have never been a judgment for the umpire because by rule, it was an infield fly. The language in the official rule book reflects this. Whether it was a high pop up or a wimpy pop up doesn't matter; the important thing to look at is whether or not the play could have been made with ordinary effort, which it could have. Thus, it is an infield fly.

..........The infield fly rule was designed to prevent situations like this where runners are left out to dry. .......Had the correct call been made, Morneau still can be blamed for swinging when he shouldn't have and the both runners would have been allowed to go back to their bases and this argument never would have existed. That's what should of happened; the fact that it didn't was the premise for my article.

Thank you for the comments though, I appreciate the great discussion!

I was at the game, so I may have limited perception without the aid of the cameras and close-ups they provide........ but from the club seats that look straight down the third base line (so on the first base side), I couldn't have called it a routine play, and one that "could be been made with ordinary effort" while the ball was in the air that short shallow time. While the ball was in the air was the key here. And whether it even went 20 feet up (I was looking down on the action, but it was pretty close) ..... all while in the air that short time. So I am not arguing a case here, just saying that I couldn't have called it an infield fly by the rules, for the reasons I stated. The assumption that, while in the air, it was obvious it could be caught easily, is something I could not make.

TheLeviathan
07-25-2013, 05:40 PM
Riverbrians point about Morneau's pitch selection is spot on. Prior to that at bat, I was secretly hoping Morneau would bunt.

Jack Torse
07-25-2013, 05:44 PM
The story is really the same old story. Morneau unable to get a big hit in a big spot for his team. That at bat was not just bad but absolutely pathetic.

Old Twins Cap
07-25-2013, 10:08 PM
I don't see the point to this. Blah, blah....90 loss season. Blah, blah, weak line up. Blah, blah, blah. I get it. It is a tough time. Why lead with such pessimism? Hey, in case anybody was not aware, the Twins have not been very good lately. The point is the team was robbed of an extra out with a person in scoring position that could have lead to a sweep instead of simply winning a series. Winning yesterday's game would not have catapulted the Twins into winning the Central but it could have been a win. All games and outs are important and there is always a chance. I refuse to get pulled into this negative mindset and I hope the Twins feel the same way. If they were to think that way then they may never escape the cellar.

The reason to lead with such pessimism is because it is realism. The Twins do not have a Major League lineup -- with Mauer out, Willingham out, Morneau diminished -- go back and look at that lineup. They just will not score many runs with AAA players, rookies and cast-offs. It's not that hard to figure out when the Twins FO is simply punching the clock with no intention of putting a quality team on the field. Sorry if that harshes your fandom, but until the fanbase starts demanding a better roster, we will be consigned to this level of mediocrity. And yes, three years of 90 losses is pretty sad and frustrating. I want it to end even more than you do.

ThejacKmp
07-26-2013, 07:24 AM
The Umps blew the call... No question about it... But the call was a distraction for a problem that something can be done about.

Why was Morneau with a 1-0 Count swinging at a ball? Frieri just walked and hit a guy... He started Morneau with a ball. Why is Morning swinging at an inside fastball that would have made the count 2-0?



This is pretty strong language from someone who wouldn't get the bat off their shoulder on that pitch. You're acting like before they swing every time, MLB players know exactly where the pitch is going - like every player could post a 0% rate of swinging at balls outside the strike zone.

Morneau was clearly looking for a fastball on the inner part of the plate, got one and took a rip. It didn't work out but that's what MLB players do. I could see your point if it was an off speed pitch in the dirt or a face-high fastball but that wasn't that bad a pitch and it was in a place where Morneau likes to pull the ball.

I'm not going to question a guy's plate approach. Wish you would feel the same.

ThejacKmp
07-26-2013, 07:26 AM
If Morneau had yanked a single to right on it, no one would be complaining. Baseball is a sport where failing 2/3 of the time makes you a great player. Lighten up sasquatches. :-)

Steve Penz
07-26-2013, 08:27 AM
If Morneau had yanked a single to right on it, no one would be complaining. Baseball is a sport where failing 2/3 of the time makes you a great player. Lighten up sasquatches. :-)


Thank you. Somehow being called a Sasquatch started my day with a smile.

Riverbrian
07-26-2013, 08:46 AM
This is pretty strong language from someone who wouldn't get the bat off their shoulder on that pitch. You're acting like before they swing every time, MLB players know exactly where the pitch is going - like every player could post a 0% rate of swinging at balls outside the strike zone.

Morneau was clearly looking for a fastball on the inner part of the plate, got one and took a rip. It didn't work out but that's what MLB players do. I could see your point if it was an off speed pitch in the dirt or a face-high fastball but that wasn't that bad a pitch and it was in a place where Morneau likes to pull the ball.

I'm not going to question a guy's plate approach. Wish you would feel the same.

Good post... Apart from the last sentence... Which I deleted because sentences like those are how things go off the tracks.

Now... I agree with everything you said. I've been a huge Justin Morneau fan his entire career.

But... I will stick to my post... If Justin can't be criticized for that at bat... in that situation...

He is bullet proof!

Riverbrian
07-26-2013, 08:48 AM
Thank you. Somehow being called a Sasquatch started my day with a smile.

Me too... I haven't been called Sasquatch since May.

snepp
07-26-2013, 03:26 PM
Taken outside RB's home.


http://swittersb.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/sasquatch201.jpg

Riverbrian
07-26-2013, 06:20 PM
Taken outside RB's home.


http://swittersb.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/sasquatch201.jpg

Do you realize how muchbureaucratic red tape I had to deal with to get my own sign. Let's just say it wasn't easy.

i'm not sure how you got this photo... And I'm also surprised and excited by the new rocky hillside outside my window. I hope my neighbor is Ok because the hillside seems to be right where his house was!

twinsnorth49
07-26-2013, 06:34 PM
Taken outside RB's home.


http://swittersb.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/sasquatch201.jpg


That looks like the side of a hill, there is no way that is Grand Forks......unless of course RB lives next to the garbage dump.

Riverbrian
07-26-2013, 06:43 PM
That looks like the side of a hill, there is no way that is Grand Forks......unless of course RB lives next to the garbage dump.

I'm rushing home to see it... That hill is going to be the talk of the town... My home value may even go up.

twinsnorth49
07-26-2013, 06:45 PM
This is pretty strong language from someone who wouldn't get the bat off their shoulder on that pitch. You're acting like before they swing every time, MLB players know exactly where the pitch is going - like every player could post a 0% rate of swinging at balls outside the strike zone.

Morneau was clearly looking for a fastball on the inner part of the plate, got one and took a rip. It didn't work out but that's what MLB players do. I could see your point if it was an off speed pitch in the dirt or a face-high fastball but that wasn't that bad a pitch and it was in a place where Morneau likes to pull the ball.

I'm not going to question a guy's plate approach. Wish you would feel the same.

I don't think RB was comparing himself to Morneau, so the first sentence is pretty unnecessary as well. The point is during that particular at bat a guy like Morneau should know he should probably be more selective, as previously stated the guy had barely thrown a strike since he entered the game and was already down 1-0 to Morneau. Make the guy prove he can throw a strike, I don't think the pitch Morneau swung at was that bad but it was the wrong time to do it, it was borderline at best and if it's called a ball it's 2-0 and then he knows he's getting a fastball.

His approach at that time was questionable, not his approach in general.