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View Full Version : Article: Reviewing Rotation Reinforcements in Rochester



Nick Nelson
07-23-2013, 11:31 PM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=2120-Reviewing-Rotation-Reinforcements-in-Rochester

Otwins
07-24-2013, 12:00 AM
Thanks for the analysis. Seems like the willingness to give Diamond another start has more to do with the lack of options than anything else. Sure seems like it has to be Albers but in a rebuilding year that 40 man spot may be more valuable than a win or two.

jorgenswest
07-24-2013, 01:43 AM
Nick - he is not in AAA, but any analysis on Swarzak getting another chance in the rotation?

Joe A. Preusser
07-24-2013, 05:00 AM
Nick - he is not in AAA, but any analysis on Swarzak getting another chance in the rotation?

Please, no more Swarzak or Duensing experiments. They have become fair MLB players out of the pen, don't mess with that progress.

tjsyam921
07-24-2013, 06:20 AM
I think the Twins are hoping for Pelfrey to continue to improve so he can be traded soon and open a roster spot for Albers or someone else. I think that's why he started first after the all star break to give him more starts before the deadline. Obviously that opens a second spot in the rotation.

Oldgoat_MN
07-24-2013, 07:13 AM
Please, no more Swarzak or Duensing experiments. They have become fair MLB players out of the pen, don't mess with that progress.

It's fun to pull for these guys and I was kind of excited for Swarzak when he came up.

However, in 114 PA this year against LH batters their slash line is .321/.345/.557 (.902). Not good. The way they are using him now may be his best opportunity to stay in MLB.

USAFChief
07-24-2013, 08:16 AM
What a dismal set of options.

wabene
07-24-2013, 08:24 AM
I think the Twins are hoping for Pelfrey to continue to improve so he can be traded soon and open a roster spot for Albers or someone else. I think that's why he started first after the all star break to give him more starts before the deadline. Obviously that opens a second spot in the rotation.
Everybody keeps talking about getting rid of Pelfry, but as this article clearly shows they need him. Next year if one quality arm is ready (good case senario) out of the minors they still have to fill out the rotation. Peltry mean while is following the classic TJ recovery; stronger in the second half and even stronger next year.

3up3down
07-24-2013, 09:11 AM
I think they should extend Pelfrey, he can be a top of rotation starter. as far as this list, I really dont see any options, worley is hurt & he has been terrible, albers has been good at AAA but he is throwing 83-85 & that will not translate to big league success, you say walters doesnt have good enough stuff to pitch in the bigs , i disagree he basically has 1 full season of stats under his belt, IF he locates his pitches he can pitch in the bigs , he is no different than hendriks, neither have over whelming stuff but must locate all there pitches , hendriks is younger but look at his #s , they are no better than walters..lets just say the options in AAA are not good & thats even if ALL of them were healthy...

beckmt
07-24-2013, 09:11 AM
Does not look like we have options for Diamond at this time. Too bad, We cannot afford to have a full 40 man roster incase we take more players than we sell at this time.

birdwatcher
07-24-2013, 09:37 AM
A half dozen really really really bad choices.

jorgenswest
07-24-2013, 09:43 AM
Please, no more Swarzak or Duensing experiments. They have become fair MLB players out of the pen, don't mess with that progress.

In the last 3 years, Swarzak was given 11 starts. All of them in 2011. His FIP (3.92) and xFIP (4.45) as a starter were better than his relief numbers that year. The Twins have started many pitchers who haven't done nearly as well in the last three seasons.

It could be that his two fastballs and curve ball aren't enough and his change up isn't effective enough to be starter. On the otherhand, there are pitchers who have pitched poorly and given a much longer look as a starter. I asked for analysis earlier because it is something i wonder. Any analysis?

cmathewson
07-24-2013, 09:53 AM
I cringe at all but Albers. He really does stand out in this group. Plus, the Twins like to have one lefty in the rotation, so Albers is the obvious choice. As for finding 40-man room, perhaps they're waiting for the trading deadline for that to sort itself out.

AROG
07-24-2013, 09:53 AM
What about Trevor May. He obviously needs more time but would be the best option to get major league hitters out. He is on the 40 man roster and when he is on, he is really good, when he isn't on, he isn't good. In a perfect world we wouldn't consider him for this year. But I think it is obvious that we are not in a perfect scenario.

boomerb5
07-24-2013, 10:37 AM
I think the Twins are hoping for Pelfrey to continue to improve so he can be traded soon and open a roster spot for Albers or someone else. I think that's why he started first after the all star break to give him more starts before the deadline. Obviously that opens a second spot in the rotation.

Trading Pelfrey does open a roster spot, but it also leaves another hole in the rotation. So you add a player to the 40-man for Big Pelf, and you still don;t have a slot for someone to replace Diamond.

jun
07-24-2013, 12:37 PM
I think they should extend Pelfrey, he can be a top of rotation starter. as far as this list, I really dont see any options, worley is hurt & he has been terrible, albers has been good at AAA but he is throwing 83-85 & that will not translate to big league success, you say walters doesnt have good enough stuff to pitch in the bigs , i disagree he basically has 1 full season of stats under his belt, IF he locates his pitches he can pitch in the bigs , he is no different than hendriks, neither have over whelming stuff but must locate all there pitches , hendriks is younger but look at his #s , they are no better than walters..lets just say the options in AAA are not good & thats even if ALL of them were healthy...

Albers has not had a chance to pitch in the ML. Don't write him off just yet. Let's be fair. Walters and Hendriks were given a few chances already. They both failed to succeed.

BabyJesusBuxton
07-24-2013, 01:35 PM
I wouldn't throw in the towel on Worley and Hendriks yet. They are both relatively young pitchers yet and have time to turn it around. If one of these guys are able to figure it out and pitch effective enough to cover the 4 or 5 spot in the rotation for the next 3 years I would be ecstatic!

glunn
07-24-2013, 01:42 PM
I am hoping for a creative move that gives Albers a chance.

3up3down
07-24-2013, 02:08 PM
jun, I am not writing Albers off , all i am saying is most on here just see the stats & thats ok..I have seen Albers pitch in college & professional, as I have seen alot of guys & I cant remember 1 single guy in the last 10 years that has gotten a chance much less succeded throwing 83-85mph, it just dont happen..he maybe , maybe could have some success as a pen guy because he faces hitters one time & has them out front of everything , but that 2nd time thru the order big league hitters will wait back & kill it..he deserves a chance BUT he is not the answer, the best options in AAA or on the AAA DL is unfortunately walters or hendriks. in my opinion walters or hendriks if facing the tigers gives you a chance to win if they are locating pitches. any of the others you have very little chance of winning that day. Albers is alot like Brad Mills , mills had success in the minors , he even pitched great in vegas & thats almost impossible but he had zero success in the bigs & he throws harder than albers & i am not a velocity guy but you have to atleast get it in the hi 80s...

Dave T
07-24-2013, 02:57 PM
I hope the Twins extend Pelfrey. His rehab is going pretty much as expected, and it's not like we have a lot of good young pitchers at AAA that Pelfrey is holding back.

Whatever happened to Cole DeVries? He would have made the team out of spring training, I think, if he hadn't hurt his arm.

Albers has been outstanding in AAA. I think he's earned a chance to show us what he can do against major league hitters, and Scott Diamond needs a chance to get his mojo back in AAA.

No thank you to Walters -- I've seen enough of him.

twinstalker
07-24-2013, 04:11 PM
Everybody keeps talking about getting rid of Pelfry, but as this article clearly shows they need him. Next year if one quality arm is ready (good case senario) out of the minors they still have to fill out the rotation. Peltry mean while is following the classic TJ recovery; stronger in the second half and even stronger next year.
Dude, Pelfrey is a free agent.

AROG
07-24-2013, 04:48 PM
Like I said, I think May is the best option we have. He is on the 40-man roster already and has major league stuff. He is just inconsistent. I would rather have inconsistent but good stuff than a steady super nasty high schooler.

With that being said, Mark Burhle (can't spell that name :() is a pro so maybe it is worth a shot for Albers. You always need those players pushing the edge.

jay
07-24-2013, 05:18 PM
Does not look like we have options for Diamond at this time. Too bad, We cannot afford to have a full 40 man roster incase we take more players than we sell at this time.

Judd Zulgad said this also, but I'm not sure it's right... I only see two option years exercised?? 2011 and 2012, meaning this could be his third and last option year?

Kwak
07-24-2013, 07:22 PM
Judd Zulgad said this also, but I'm not sure it's right... I only see two option years exercised?? 2011 and 2012, meaning this could be his third and last option year?

Which suggests to me that Diamond won't be optioned--he will become a long relief guy for the rest of this season.

stringer bell
07-24-2013, 09:32 PM
Ramirez has been on the 7-day DL for almost exactly 60 days. He could be on the 60-day right now, freeing up a spot for Albers, if that is what the Twins want to do. Further, with Thomas' relative success as a backup CF and sometimes corner OF, Ramirez isn't needed on the roster, so he can be DFAed. I doubt anyone would claim him coming off a two month recovery from a concussion and with an underwhelming resume. I thought Albers reached the upper 80s-low 90s, much like Diamond. I suspect he might be another Colabello, able to excel below the major leagues, but not having the tools to advance to the top level. But, like Colabello, he's earned a chance to try.

cmathewson
07-24-2013, 09:38 PM
Judd Zulgad said this also, but I'm not sure it's right... I only see two option years exercised?? 2011 and 2012, meaning this could be his third and last option year?

Two options used, one left.

robbie111
07-24-2013, 11:41 PM
albers has been good at AAA but he is throwing 83-85

That's unlikely since he was hitting 88 for Team Canada at the WBC this year. Also if you check his scouting report from the University of Kentucky he was hitting high 88-89 then.

wabene
07-25-2013, 07:26 AM
Dude, Pelfrey is a free agent.

Dude sign him then. He keeps getting better so the time is now

Thegrin
07-25-2013, 07:40 AM
It appears that Virgil Vasquez, now in New Britain, may be the most ML ready pitcher we have in the minors.

jorgenswest
07-25-2013, 09:09 AM
jun, I am not writing Albers off , all i am saying is most on here just see the stats & thats ok..I have seen Albers pitch in college & professional, as I have seen alot of guys & I cant remember 1 single guy in the last 10 years that has gotten a chance much less succeded throwing 83-85mph, it just dont happen..he maybe , maybe could have some success as a pen guy because he faces hitters one time & has them out front of everything , but that 2nd time thru the order big league hitters will wait back & kill it..he deserves a chance BUT he is not the answer, the best options in AAA or on the AAA DL is unfortunately walters or hendriks. in my opinion walters or hendriks if facing the tigers gives you a chance to win if they are locating pitches. any of the others you have very little chance of winning that day. Albers is alot like Brad Mills , mills had success in the minors , he even pitched great in vegas & thats almost impossible but he had zero success in the bigs & he throws harder than albers & i am not a velocity guy but you have to atleast get it in the hi 80s...


Albers mixes a high 80s fastball with a slow curve. He has carried reverse platoon splits through the minors with a low groundball rate. You can't find to many major leaguers with that profile, but they exist. Bruce Chen and Barry Zito have pitched a long time with that mix. They would probably be the high end upside comp.