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View Full Version : Huge shakeup at CR; Hicks promoted along with 3 others



KernelsGuy1
07-16-2013, 11:35 AM
Dalton Hicks, J.D. Williams, Steve Gruver, and Tyler Jones all headed to Fort Myers, according to the (http://thegazette.com/2013/07/16/hicks-among-4-kernels-promoted-to-high-class-a-fort-myers/) Cedar Rapids Gazette.

Dallas Gallant and Tim Shibuya promoted from Elizabethton to Cedar Rapids. Jairo Rodriguez back to CR from FM. Last roster spot likely to be filled by the Fort Wayne series on Saturday. Huge news.

MichiganTwins
07-16-2013, 11:37 AM
Any inclination of who the last spot will be filled by? Is it likely to be filler or something more substantial?

ashburyjohn
07-16-2013, 11:38 AM
Probably frustrating for CR fans, even if they can be hopeful about the new guys coming up. But that's life in a single-A market I guess. And it is so great for the organization, to have promotable guys at each of these levels, rather than guys languishing or treading water as organizational filler.

PseudoSABR
07-16-2013, 11:42 AM
Have to think Vargas is heading to AA, along with a couple of others.

Brandon
07-16-2013, 11:42 AM
So what happens to the extra players now at Fort Myers.

nicksaviking
07-16-2013, 11:55 AM
Probably frustrating for CR fans, even if they can be hopeful about the new guys coming up. But that's life in a single-A market I guess. And it is so great for the organization, to have promotable guys at each of these levels, rather than guys languishing or treading water as organizational filler.

They still have Walker and Polanco, who will now be 1-2 in the league in RBI along with Berrios and Harrison. They still have some pretty big names who now possibly have chips on their shoulders due watching their buddies get promoted while they stay behind.

ericchri
07-16-2013, 12:05 PM
They still have Walker and Polanco, who will now be 1-2 in the league in RBI along with Berrios and Harrison. They still have some pretty big names who now possibly have chips on their shoulders due watching their buddies get promoted while they stay behind.

Some German kid, too. Though I don't know what all the Norwegians in Iowa think about that.

Smcginnity
07-16-2013, 12:07 PM
How does Walker and Polanco not get moved up!? They need to start eliminating the crap on some of these rosters. I mean, there is some seriously bad players that stick around...why is that! Get rid of some of these guys and move the guys up that are deserving!

MichiganTwins
07-16-2013, 12:09 PM
I am also wondering about the absence of Walker or Polanco in these moves. Can someone clarify for us about these two not earning their callup? (yet)

Smcginnity
07-16-2013, 12:17 PM
Also, I really think Beresford needs to be called up to the Bigs and they should just release/trade Carroll. We are in rebuild mode...no reason to keep the crap we have on this roster anymore.

jimbo92107
07-16-2013, 01:19 PM
Also, I really think Beresford needs to be called up to the Bigs and they should just release/trade Carroll. We are in rebuild mode...no reason to keep the crap we have on this roster anymore.

Please show a little more respect for guys like Carroll. He's a highly skilled, totally professional ballplayer. Teams need guys like that for their diverse skills, and also for the positive influence they can have on young players like Florimon, Dozier, Hicks, Arcia, etc. Even if Beresford is a talented utility infielder, he won't have the credentials of an experienced, knowledgeable veteran like Carroll. When Carroll hangs up his spikes, I hope the Twins are lucky enough to get him as an instructor in their system.

Vervehound
07-16-2013, 01:47 PM
How does Walker and Polanco not get moved up!? They need to start eliminating the crap on some of these rosters. I mean, there is some seriously bad players that stick around...why is that! Get rid of some of these guys and move the guys up that are deserving!

even if polanco and walker were promoted now, they'd still likely start next year at ft. myers so their developmental curve will be mostly unchanged. walker, in particular, has some remedial things to work on so their staying in c.r. for a year isn't a bad thing.

TNTwinsFan
07-16-2013, 01:50 PM
What remedial things?

MichiganTwins
07-16-2013, 02:36 PM
I don't want to take anything away from the players, but I feel my promotion to AA today has been going under the radar on TD and has not gotten the attention it should.

nicksaviking
07-16-2013, 02:54 PM
How does Walker and Polanco not get moved up!? They need to start eliminating the crap on some of these rosters. I mean, there is some seriously bad players that stick around...why is that! Get rid of some of these guys and move the guys up that are deserving!

I agree they need to find room for Walker, but it likely was due to a space crunch. There's still only three OF spots in Ft. Myers and they likely had to chose between Walker and Williams and Williams has already spent 1 1/2 years in the Midwest league. Williams is justly deserved of a promotion aside from just the service time and the guy knows how to take a walk, something the Twins clearly love.

Polanco is tough, he deserves to be moved too but Petterson and Mejia have been huge surprises at Ft. Myers and they are blocked at NB by Rosario and Santana. They are currently blocked by Escobar and Beresford at Rochester. The following is a rediculous statement: Polanco is blocked by the surprising depth of the middle infielders ahead of him.

Though a special talent needs to be prioritized differently, we shouldn't forget that Arcia last year and Buxton this year were the only HS age offensive players the Twins didn't require spend a full year in Low A in a very, very long time.

Jeremy Nygaard
07-16-2013, 02:55 PM
I don't want to take anything away from the players, but I feel my promotion to AA today has been going under the radar on TD and has not gotten the attention it should.

It's been a day full of changes; hard to give every move all the attention it deserves. In your case - as a senior member - you're a little old for that level anyway.

Smcginnity
07-16-2013, 02:58 PM
Please show a little more respect for guys like Carroll. He's a highly skilled, totally professional ballplayer. Teams need guys like that for their diverse skills, and also for the positive influence they can have on young players like Florimon, Dozier, Hicks, Arcia, etc. Even if Beresford is a talented utility infielder, he won't have the credentials of an experienced, knowledgeable veteran like Carroll. When Carroll hangs up his spikes, I hope the Twins are lucky enough to get him as an instructor in their system.'

I don't disagree with that but in the end, this is a business and for the fans, moves should be made that start to improve the ball club for the long-haul. I respect Carroll, but he is what he is at his age. He's a utility player that comes in for defensive purposes or pinch running. Nothing more. Beresford may be part of the future and the sooner he gets up here, the sooner we will know.

TKGuy
07-16-2013, 03:00 PM
Some German kid, too. Though I don't know what all the Norwegians in Iowa think about that.

Trust me, not too many Norwegians in this part of Iowa....

PseudoSABR
07-16-2013, 03:28 PM
Beresford may be part of the future and the sooner he gets up here, the sooner we will know.I don't think it quite works that way. If Beresford has specific issues to work through at AAA before he's best prepared for the ML, we'd be doing him a disservice.

If Beresford were ready or needing of addition he certainly would have taken Escobar's spot. In any case, Beresford wouldn't be getting any at bats, which is (in part) why Escobar was sent down in he first place.

TRex
07-16-2013, 03:30 PM
Trust me, not too many Norwegians in this part of Iowa....

Yeah... all dem dere Norwegians in the Amana Colonies!

lightfoot789
07-16-2013, 04:46 PM
The question of the day becomes - Who will be the new 1st baseman in Cedar Rapids on a regular basis?
*Kepler (that would waist his OF growth)
*Goodrum (He needs reps at SS / 3B / & 2B)
*Walker (College 2nd Team All American at 1B - But would waist his athleticism)
I hope they don't go 1st Base by committee
Do I see a Rory Rhodes sighting? :)

diehardtwinsfan
07-16-2013, 05:38 PM
Beresford is not on the 40 man and will be due to be added next season. If he goes up to the bigs now, he has to stay or else they waste an option sending him back down. He's a September callup.

lightfoot789
07-16-2013, 05:54 PM
[Walker, in particular, has some remedial things to work on]
Just comparing Stats with some of the best in game: I always thought Walker was a mixture of both players. Power and Athletic
Adam Brett Walker II
K% 22.1%
ISO .258
BABIP .316
OBP .332
SLG% .540
BA .282
wOBA .384
wRC+ 136

Ryan Braun
K% 21.2
ISO .203
BABIP .363
OBP .380
SLG% .507
BA .304
wOBA .375
wRC+ 139

Josh Hamilton (2012)
K% 25.5
ISO ..292
BABIP .320
OBP .354
SLG% .577
BA .285
wOBA .387
wRC+ 140

I'm just saying (K Rate way down) and he compares well with some of the best in the game at the stage he's at RIGHT now. Production is Production

Vervehound
07-16-2013, 06:24 PM
What remedial things?

learning to control the strike zone, shortening his swing and cutting down his k rate.

Vervehound
07-16-2013, 06:29 PM
[Walker, in particular, has some remedial things to work on]
Just comparing Stats with some of the best in game: I always thought Walker was a mixture of both players. Power and Athletic
Adam Brett Walker II
K% 22.1%
ISO .258
BABIP .316
OBP .332
SLG% .540
BA .282
wOBA .384
wRC+ 136

Ryan Braun
K% 21.2
ISO .203
BABIP .363
OBP .380
SLG% .507
BA .304
wOBA .375
wRC+ 139

Josh Hamilton (2012)
K% 25.5
ISO ..292
BABIP .320
OBP .354
SLG% .577
BA .285
wOBA .387
wRC+ 140

I'm just saying (K Rate way down) and he compares well with some of the best in the game at the stage he's at RIGHT now. Production is Production


mmkay, let's just say the hyperbole police have issued a warrant for your arrest.

walker compares much more closely to cory vaughn than either of those two. if all things turn out well, we get cory's dad. if they don't, we're stuck with cory.

Thrylos
07-16-2013, 07:01 PM
"Shakeup"? And "huge"? Gee... Read the title and I was thinking that a bunch of players were cut or something. Instead some got well-deserved promotions.

This is the SOP in the minors, not a "shakeup" :)

Thrylos
07-16-2013, 07:03 PM
mmkay, let's just say the hyperbole police have issued a warrant for your arrest.

walker compares much more closely to cory vaughn than either of those two. if all things turn out well, we get cory's dad. if they don't, we're stuck with cory.

And comparing Walker to a steroids cheater and a druggie does not do him any favors...

SD Buhr
07-16-2013, 07:31 PM
The four guys getting promotions to Ft Myers certainly have earned it. Best of luck to them. I've certainly enjoyed watching them play ball in Cedar Rapids.

Are there other guys who arguably could move up, too? Sure. But there needs to be a spot for them to move up in to and the Twins have to be able to fill every affiliate's roster. That's a bit more complicated than some might think. As the guys who have started out in Elizabethton develop and warrant a promotion, I would expect a few more current Kernels to get moved up, too.

You'd love to watch some of these guys play all summer long, but that's just the nature of minor league baseball. If you've got a good team, guys get promoted. If you've got a lousy team, you're probably stuck with those guys on your roster most of the season.

I do think Gallant and Shibuya may be able to help this pitching staff.

I am a little surprised Rhodes wasn't among the players coming to CR to play 1B. It could be that Kepler's elbow is still keeping him from cutting loose with his throws and he'll just play 1B full time until he's fully healthy.

Rodriguez's return means CR is back to having 3 catchers. Not sure what that accomplishes.

stringer bell
07-16-2013, 07:33 PM
I can't get over all the love expressed for Beresford. He is powerless and has good but not game-changing speed. He is having a good season, but his OPS is still only .735. I would think his ceiling is a backup middle infielder, and I don't think he'll reach that. Escobar has similar skills, but has demonstrated some pop with the bat and has over a year's worth of big league experience.

lightfoot789
07-16-2013, 07:45 PM
I"m reaching in my comparisons to Braun and Hamilton - but my point is statistically he is probably where the Twins want him to be. Kind of hard to think they expect much more. I think a 22% strike out rate for a power hitter is probably pretty good and better than most MLB Power Stars. Everybody needs command of the strike zone. What makes you say Walkers discipline is so bad to warrant staying in CR. Hicks led the team in K's (Just saying) :). I need more remedial reasoning.......................

SD Buhr
07-16-2013, 08:05 PM
Just thought I would point out that, with the promotion of Gruver, my 2013 record remains perfect... I've purchased three jerseys during the special jersey night auctions this season. Manuel Soliman, Candido Pimentel and, now, Steve Gruver, have all been promoted within a month or so of my adding their autographed Kernels jerseys to my collection.

I think a few of the current Kernels might want to think about just giving me their jerseys. Obviously, it would be a smart career move on their part. :)

clutterheart
07-16-2013, 09:12 PM
Hopefully this will have some corresponding moves that go all the way up to AAA?
Will a player like Pinto finally get moved up to AAA?
Would the team consider moving Buxton to play CF at AA?

If not that OF in FM will be fast and crowded.

stringer bell
07-16-2013, 09:52 PM
Tough to think that Buxton would advance so quickly to AA. He's going to be great, but Ft. Myers is his level for the rest of the season.

cmathewson
07-16-2013, 10:18 PM
I agree they need to find room for Walker, but it likely was due to a space crunch. There's still only three OF spots in Ft. Myers and they likely had to chose between Walker and Williams and Williams has already spent 1 1/2 years in the Midwest league. Williams is justly deserved of a promotion aside from just the service time and the guy knows how to take a walk, something the Twins clearly love.



I understand taking Williams over Walker, but not Hicks. It must be defense and position. Looking at the numbers, especially lately, Walker is the better player than Hicks. But Hicks plays first and that's Vargas' position, so...

Shane Wahl
07-16-2013, 10:31 PM
Walker must be getting his promotion soon. I think they must be looking at Fort Myers and seeing who deserves promotion to AA. I am happy for the players promoted though. Walker will be next.

Polanco could sit in low-A with an obvious start at Fort Myers next year. yes, I wouldn't mess around and I would promote him with Walker in the next few weeks. Some E-Town players need to show up and be worthy of A-ball first, though.

Oxtung
07-16-2013, 11:43 PM
The question of the day becomes - Who will be the new 1st baseman in Cedar Rapids on a regular basis?
*Kepler (that would waist his OF growth)
*Goodrum (He needs reps at SS / 3B / & 2B)
*Walker (College 2nd Team All American at 1B - But would waist his athleticism)
I hope they don't go 1st Base by committee
Do I see a Rory Rhodes sighting? :)

I actually think we see Bryan Haar promoted instead of Rhodes. Rory hasn't hit particularly well since the GCL 3 seasons ago.


I understand taking Williams over Walker, but not Hicks. It must be defense and position. Looking at the numbers, especially lately, Walker is the better player than Hicks. But Hicks plays first and that's Vargas' position, so...

Hicks is also already 23 so if he is even a possibility in the Twins braintrust he needed to move up and then move again early in 2014 to AA and look to get a big league shot at spring training in 2015 as a 25 year old. Now that is probably unlikely to all happen but it is the only way I can see him making the Twins as anything other than a bench bat for a season or two.

lightfoot789
07-17-2013, 02:01 AM
Don't count Hicks short. All he has done is lead "All of minor league baseball in RBIs"!!! Production is production no matter what round you were drafted. He is a .300 hitter and has had success at every level he has played. Judge his results until they don't work for you. Right now he is a steal and deserves every opportunity to be "a" guy in the prospect race.

TheLeviathan
07-17-2013, 04:55 AM
Don't count Hicks short. All he has done is lead "All of minor league baseball in RBIs"!!! Production is production no matter what round you were drafted. He is a .300 hitter and has had success at every level he has played. Judge his results until they don't work for you. Right now he is a steal and deserves every opportunity to be "a" guy in the prospect race.

Production isn't just production. You can't compare MLB production vs single A production and call it equal for example. There is quite a difference. You'd be better off comparing him to his peers or to MLB players stats from the same level.There are all kinds of valid reasons to make relative comparisons.

Major Leauge Ready
07-17-2013, 07:21 AM
You have to believe Carroll will be traded to a contender before the deadline. There are a lot of pieces to fit together and movement expected on the ML roster very soon.

2wins87
07-17-2013, 07:45 AM
I am also wondering about the absence of Walker or Polanco in these moves. Can someone clarify for us about these two not earning their callup? (yet)

Gruver, Jones, Hicks and Williams were all getting a bit old for their level. Gruver is already getting old for A+. The difference is mostly about age and the Twins wanting to get their older prospects moving faster. This will not hurt Polanco or Walker's development.

Also I'm not sure who would be playing for Cedar Rapids if the Twins were to promote half of their roster.

2wins87
07-17-2013, 07:59 AM
Also, I really think Beresford needs to be called up to the Bigs and they should just release/trade Carroll. We are in rebuild mode...no reason to keep the crap we have on this roster anymore.

First, the Twins need a backup infielder, who better to fill that roll than a veteran. Why would you release Carroll so that Beresford can sit on the bench in the majors? And to be realistic his ceiling is probably around a Jamey Carroll type player; good defense, hits enough to stick around, maybe even start, but with no power. He's not going to take a job away from any starters at this point.

cmathewson
07-17-2013, 09:30 AM
Don't count Hicks short. All he has done is lead "All of minor league baseball in RBIs"!!! Production is production no matter what round you were drafted. He is a .300 hitter and has had success at every level he has played. Judge his results until they don't work for you. Right now he is a steal and deserves every opportunity to be "a" guy in the prospect race.

Nothing against Hicks, but I expected Walker to be promoted, considering that he seems to hit a homer and a double in every game.

cmathewson
07-17-2013, 09:37 AM
Also, had a conversation with a buddy who spent a long weeked in CR right after Buxton was promoted. He said "the [CR] right fielder [Walker] was clearly the best guy on the field of every game I saw." He said it was like watching Harmon. You got the feeling he could hit a homer in every trip to the plate.

pab
07-17-2013, 06:55 PM
Nothing against Hicks, but I expected Walker to be promoted, considering that he seems to hit a homer and a double in every game.

He didn't in June! You can't promote someone everytime they have a hot streak.

SD Buhr
07-17-2013, 07:02 PM
.297/.355/.494 .850 OPS 44 extra-base hits (13 HR), 85 Ks, 34 BBs in 89 games
.282/.332/.540 .872 OPS 43 extra-base hits (18 HR), 79 Ks, 23 BBs in 85 games

Pretty hard, to me, to make a case that one of those guys is so markedly better than the other one that he clearly is more deserving of a promotion than the other. As has been said elsewhere, other factors such as position and age play a factor and both players have had excellent seasons.

Seth Stohs
07-17-2013, 07:15 PM
I don't get Walker staying down. Buxton needed to move up. JD absolutely needed to move up. I think Walker should be up. But, I think Kvasnicka could move up to New Britain too... it is about space and opportunity and stuff too.