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silverslugger
06-27-2013, 06:11 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/st-louis-cardinals-draw-christian-cross-pitcher-mound-173805257.html

It looks like the St. Louis Cardinals grounds crew has been decorating the mound with some religious symbolism from time to time. I guess I don't personally have a problem with this. The author goes to great lengths to suggest a lack of tolerance for several other religions. I guess I didn't realize there were so many baseball fans of other faiths. Thoughts?

Bark's Lounge
06-27-2013, 06:53 PM
As a person who does not subscribe to any religious belief - I don't think it's a big deal.

I have no idea whether it was the ownership's or ground crew's idea - if it was the ownership of the Card's, they have every right to do as such... if such an action isolates a fan base and causes a stir - I would be surprised.

As long as the people of faith are not knocking at my door - trying to convert me, or passing laws that interfere with my way of life - I am chill with it.

Everyone has their deal... as a bumper sticker I see quite often says: "Co-Exist".

powrwrap
06-28-2013, 10:28 AM
As a person who does not subscribe to any religious belief - I don't think it's a big deal.

I have no idea whether it was the ownership's or ground crew's idea - if it was the ownership of the Card's, they have every right to do as such... if such an action isolates a fan base and causes a stir - I would be surprised.

As long as the people of faith are not knocking at my door - trying to convert me, or passing laws that interfere with my way of life - I am chill with it.

Everyone has their deal... as a bumper sticker I see quite often says: "Co-Exist".

As a person of Christian faith, I really appreciate this sensible response. Too many times non-faith people, like Mr. Vines in the linked story, object to free expression of religion. They have a non-tolerant zeal about them as if they are proselytizing for atheism.

Shane Wahl
06-28-2013, 10:33 AM
As a person who does not subscribe to any religious belief - I don't think it's a big deal.

I have no idea whether it was the ownership's or ground crew's idea - if it was the ownership of the Card's, they have every right to do as such... if such an action isolates a fan base and causes a stir - I would be surprised.

As long as the people of faith are not knocking at my door - trying to convert me, or passing laws that interfere with my way of life - I am chill with it.

Everyone has their deal... as a bumper sticker I see quite often says: "Co-Exist".

Yeah, I agree with this, though I don't care if someone knocks on my door like that--I respect dedication, haha. Anyway, to complain about this is akin to complaining about the baby Jesus in the manger at Christmas time.

Bigger fish to fry . . .

ashburyjohn
06-28-2013, 10:34 AM
I would be interested to read the sensible responses if the Cardinals ground crew were installing Wiccan symbols.

Shane Wahl
06-28-2013, 10:36 AM
I would be interested to read the sensible responses if the Cardinals ground crew were installing Wiccan symbols.

I imagine Wiccans only watch baseball if it is played out in the woods at night and with wands.

IdahoPilgrim
06-28-2013, 10:56 AM
I am a Christian pastor. I also believe in the separation of church and state.

I am not going to say this should not be allowed, although I suspect MLB will have thoughts on that now that it has been brought to their attention. That said, this would not be the method I choose for sharing my faith.

If I were an opposing pitcher and found a symbol of a faith to which I did not subscribe drawn into the dirt on the mound, I would just rub it out. Problem solved.

TheLeviathan
06-28-2013, 11:29 AM
If I were an opposing pitcher and found a symbol of a faith to which I did not subscribe drawn into the dirt on the mound, I would just rub it out. Problem solved.

What if it didn't just go away and you got bombarded with negativity about being "anti Christian". We have seen a very unwarranted shift to defensiveness from Christians about public displays lately.

powrwrap
06-28-2013, 12:50 PM
I would be interested to read the sensible responses if the Cardinals ground crew were installing Wiccan symbols.

Freedom of religion is exactly that. I wouldn't like it but would respect the free expression of it.

powrwrap
06-28-2013, 12:52 PM
I am a Christian pastor. I also believe in the separation of church and state.

If I were an opposing pitcher and found a symbol of a faith to which I did not subscribe drawn into the dirt on the mound, I would just rub it out. Problem solved.

Disrespecting someone else's religion is not going to solve anything, and could lead to confrontations. We've got enough of that going on in the world already.

IdahoPilgrim
06-28-2013, 01:02 PM
Disrespecting someone else's religion is not going to solve anything, and could lead to confrontations. We've got enough of that going on in the world already.

I guess I wouldn't see that as disrespect. I could make the argument that placing a religious symbol in an area where one would not normally expect to find one, and in particular in someone's workplace, is also a form of disrespect. I have no problem sharing my faith, but that seems to me like forcing my faith on others. I am not in favor of that for my own faith tradition or any others.

mike wants wins
06-28-2013, 01:09 PM
I am with bark's and idaho on this one.......

I would probably not do it if I was the Cardinals, but it doesn't bother me that they do. If I was a person of faith that found it conflicted wtih my beliefs somehow, and I was the pitcher, I'd ask the Cardinals to remove it, rather than wipe it out myself......

but of all the things religion does good and bad, this isn't either, imo.

JB_Iowa
06-28-2013, 01:26 PM
I just wish everybody would leave the mound alone.

What is this incessant need that people seem to have to express their religion, their pain or whatever?

See a blank space? Fill it up. Dead time on the air? Fill it up. Spend your life texting or tweeting or posting about every thought or action you ever had.

This curmudgeon thinks that people have taken freedom of expression way too far.

I'd like a little freedom from other people's expressions.

PseudoSABR
06-28-2013, 02:47 PM
It doesn't necessarily bother me but I also realize that if the groundcrew had etched some Wiccan (or heck, Islamic) symbols into the mound, we wouldn't be giving the Cardinals same kind of a latitude. It's easily to brush the ethics of expressing one's freedom of religion, when that religion is a dominant force in our society.

Rob Neyer (http://www.baseballnation.com/2013/6/28/4472292/gay-pride-flag-seattle-mariners-st-louis-cardinals-pitchers-mound-cross) hits on this very issue (and Seattle flying a pride flag), and I largely agree with all of his points.

TheLeviathan
06-28-2013, 03:15 PM
Rob Neyer (http://www.baseballnation.com/2013/6/28/4472292/gay-pride-flag-seattle-mariners-st-louis-cardinals-pitchers-mound-cross) hits on this very issue (and Seattle flying a pride flag), and I largely agree with all of his points.

Wow, it's been years since I read Neyer, I need to get back on that. He was the only reason I used to frequent ESPN. He has some excellent points too.

nicksaviking
06-28-2013, 03:59 PM
It doesn't necessarily bother me but I also realize that if the groundcrew had etched some Wiccan (or heck, Islamic) symbols into the mound, we wouldn't be giving the Cardinals same kind of a latitude. It's easily to brush the ethics of expressing one's freedom of religion, when that religion is a dominant force in our society.

Rob Neyer (http://www.baseballnation.com/2013/6/28/4472292/gay-pride-flag-seattle-mariners-st-louis-cardinals-pitchers-mound-cross) hits on this very issue (and Seattle flying a pride flag), and I largely agree with all of his points.

Or anti-gay sentiments.

Religious symbols on the mound are pretty trivial so I don't much care, also consider that the Cardinals are privately owned. However I agree with Neyer, these are not the same thing. The pride flag is an attempt to right a civic injustice, regardless of what homophobes now say, there really should be no debate about whether gay people should have equal rights. The religious symbols are simply an advertisement for a specific faith.

powrwrap
06-28-2013, 04:04 PM
I guess I wouldn't see that as disrespect. I could make the argument that placing a religious symbol in an area where one would not normally expect to find one, and in particular in someone's workplace, is also a form of disrespect. I have no problem sharing my faith, but that seems to me like forcing my faith on others. I am not in favor of that for my own faith tradition or any others.

Really? Seeing a cross etched in dirt is "forcing your faith on others?" So what about people wearing crosses, or the star of David? Also "forcing your faith on others?" Sheesh.

powrwrap
06-28-2013, 04:05 PM
I would probably not do it if I was the Cardinals, but it doesn't bother me that they do. If I was a person of faith that found it conflicted wtih my beliefs somehow, and I was the pitcher, I'd ask the Cardinals to remove it, rather than wipe it out myself......


Yes, and guess what? If I were the groundskeeper for the Cardinals and I knew this marking in the dirt bothered the opposing pitcher I'd be sure to leave it intact! Home field advantage, baby!

nicksaviking
06-28-2013, 04:09 PM
Really? Seeing a cross etched in dirt is "forcing your faith on others?" So what about people wearing crosses, or the star of David? Also "forcing your faith on others?" Sheesh.

No one is making a huge deal out of the symbolism, but choosing to personally wear something is different. Forcing a guy to stand on a podium in front of 50,000 people bearing a symbol of a reliegion he does not believe in does come off as a bit persecutorial.

TheLeviathan
06-28-2013, 04:17 PM
Really? Seeing a cross etched in dirt is "forcing your faith on others?" So what about people wearing crosses, or the star of David? Also "forcing your faith on others?" Sheesh.

I think for most people the double standard applies here. They think about how they'd feel if something they don't believe was there and how it would make them feel and choose not to do the same thing with their own faith.

Imagine the outrage in some Christian circles if "Praise Allah" was written there.

ThePuck
07-05-2013, 04:00 PM
I imagine Wiccans only watch baseball if it is played out in the woods at night and with wands.

For them I imagine Quidditch is a lot more fun :-)