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View Full Version : Article: Three-Bagger: Slowey, Gibson & May



Nick Nelson
06-18-2013, 10:19 PM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1915-Three-Bagger-Slowey-Gibson-May

jokin
06-18-2013, 10:30 PM
Good article. The Gibson summation is pretty comprehensive.

On Slowey though, I'm not sure. The Marlins started him on short rest on Wednesday night (after his marathon performance in relief in the marathon game on Saturday night), and he left that game with a pulled muscle. The Marlins have another young arm available and want to get him out there- that's what rebuilding teams are supposed to do. Plus, they are going to shut down another youngster and will be sellers coming up soon. Ricky Nolasco gets them another nice haul and Slowey either moves back into the rotation or gets traded to a contender himself.

I stand by my earlier prediction on Trevor May. He gets the call-up in August or September after the trades and/or shutdowns.

Shane Wahl
06-19-2013, 12:01 AM
Twins rotation to start 2013:

Gibson
May
Diamond
Worley
Correia

Hendriks
Meyer

jokin
06-19-2013, 03:17 AM
Twins rotation to start 2013:

Gibson
May
Diamond
Worley
Correia

Hendriks
Meyer


Ah, to the chance to get a do-over in 2013. Are we going back in time, then?:roll:

I suspect they will attempt to re-sign Pelfrey and look to deal one of Correia, Worley and Hendriks.

Deduno and Walters will likely still be hanging around on the depth chart in some capacity next spring (2014).

chuchadoro
06-19-2013, 08:06 AM
Gibson's problem has been pitching too well at times. If his good starts weren't as good, he'd be more consistent and he'd already be with the big club. Also, the hotshot thinks it's ok to show up the other team by making batters swing and miss sometimes. We don't care for that type of attitude in Twins Territory.

JB_Iowa
06-19-2013, 08:40 AM
Please let them be trying to keep some of these guys with the Twins and praying for good enough performances that SOMEONE might want one or more of them at the trade deadline.

That's the only good reason I can think of for keeping Gibson down.

UCLA_YANKEE_COLA
06-19-2013, 08:48 AM
That's a pretty terrible article by Tom Powers.

Shane Wahl
06-19-2013, 09:35 AM
Ah, to the chance to get a do-over in 2013. Are we going back in time, then?:roll:

I suspect they will attempt to re-sign Pelfrey and look to deal one of Correia, Worley and Hendriks.

Deduno and Walters will likely still be hanging around on the depth chart in some capacity next spring (2014).

Thanks . Must have been a subconscious thing, hoping for things to be one year ahead of where they are now.

diehardtwinsfan
06-19-2013, 09:37 AM
Um, Meyer's been pretty good until his DL stint..

Shane Wahl
06-19-2013, 09:38 AM
By the way, if the Twins hadn't made the bonehead decision to sign Blackburn to that terrible, useless contract, where would Slowey be today? That contract pushed Gardy to favor him and then name him a starter instead of the more-deserving Slowey.

I want Slowey to do well this year, just for Dick and Bert.

mike wants wins
06-19-2013, 09:38 AM
Wimmers will be hanging around, being all Gibson-like next year also.....

ThePuck
06-19-2013, 09:55 AM
By the way, if the Twins hadn't made the bonehead decision to sign Blackburn to that terrible, useless contract, where would Slowey be today? That contract pushed Gardy to favor him and then name him a starter instead of the more-deserving Slowey.

I want Slowey to do well this year, just for Dick and Bert.

I agree. Also, Slowey has been their 3rd best starter this year. Now that Turner is up, Slowey has probably dropped to 4th. In any event, strictly by results, his demotion makes little sense.

raindog
06-19-2013, 09:58 AM
I'm not sure why the Twins should target a player like Kevin Slowey, even without the bad blood. Not that he's a bad player, but he's 29 with not a lot of upside. They should be trading away older players for young prospects at the deadline.

Boom Boom
06-19-2013, 10:21 AM
That's a pretty terrible article by Tom Powers.
Right? It sounds like Powers doesn't even care that neither Span or Revere has been all that great this season, only that they looked good beating the Twins.

SpiritofVodkaDave
06-19-2013, 10:27 AM
Slowey is not a good pitcher, no the twins should NOT be targeting him, we have enough bad pitchers on the team and in the minors.

I love how the Slowey apologists continue to make excuses for him, unbelievable. Clearly teams, managers and GMs have passed this future ace over time and time again

SpiritofVodkaDave
06-19-2013, 10:29 AM
Also Meyer has been pretty damn solid, I am very happy with the span trade, and may looks like he could stick as well. Not bad for trading a 4th OF who is doing poor for the Phillies anyways!

Nick Nelson
06-19-2013, 12:02 PM
Slowey is not a good pitcher, no the twins should NOT be targeting him, we have enough bad pitchers on the team and in the minors.

I love how the Slowey apologists continue to make excuses for him, unbelievable. Clearly teams, managers and GMs have passed this future ace over time and time again

Excuses? He's pitched well this year. No one's ever called him an ace but he's better than much of what the Twins have in their system (as is Francisco Liriano, BTW). They seem to have a habit of letting the wrong guys go, which has helped get them to this point.


Um, Meyer's been pretty good until his DL stint..

I don't think I've said otherwise. The K-rate and low hit totals are very impressive, but I've heard more than one scout-type express legit concern about his command issues. He's certainly not dominating in Double-A the way that a 23-year-old heralded as a top-of-rotation talent could be.

And even with the clean test results, shoulder soreness is worrisome.

Dman
06-19-2013, 12:21 PM
I think the Twins should try and trade Correia but I don't know if they would get much. I don't see teams being interested in Worley, Hendricks, or DeVries. So I guess we will have to give them time to see if they will ever be worth anything.

I agree Gibson and Albers have earned a shot at the Bigs but I don't see why that HAS to happen anytime soon. They are there and ready when another pitcher gets hurt or starts poorly for X amount of starts. Otherwise lets just see what the guys who are there can give us so we better know what we have for next year. We still are not going to be that good in 2014 so there is plenty of time to see the other guys pitch next year. Odds are after the trade deadline we will see them both pitch this year anyway. Lets be patient and not give up on the guys we have.

PseudoSABR
06-19-2013, 12:46 PM
Slowey is the guy you pick up off the waiver wire (which is exactly what's been happening with him)--that he got demoted on an awful Marlins team tells us something about his viability. You don't trade veterans for a guy like Slowey; at best, if you're a competitive team, you trade a middling prospect for him to round out a rotation.

jokin
06-19-2013, 01:05 PM
Excuses? He's pitched well this year. No one's ever called him an ace but he's better than much of what the Twins have in their system (as is Francisco Liriano, BTW). They seem to have a habit of letting the wrong guys go, which has helped get them to this point.

Not only are these habits, there seems to be a pattern of continual self-inflicted wounds. For some reason they have have a penchant for ostracizing guys (internally and through their reliable media stooges) who aren't completely "Twins Way robots" and/or they end up selling them when they're at rock-bottom value (Garza, Lohse, Hardy.....).

It would be nice if just once they could deal a JJ Hardy the year after he hits 30 HR and OPS's @ .801 instead of after he hits 6 HR with a .714 OPS (Josh Willingham also fits). Or Liriano, when he had an ERA+ of 112 in 2010 instead of last year when his ERA+ was 76 (FYI, his current ERA+ with the Pirates is 149).

mike wants wins
06-19-2013, 01:08 PM
They could be good in 2014, if they wanted to try ..... not sure why people are already writing next year off.

ThePuck
06-19-2013, 01:28 PM
Slowey is never going to want to come back to the Twins....and I don't think the Twins will ever ask for him. It's a dead issue.

Nick Nelson
06-19-2013, 02:53 PM
You don't trade veterans for a guy like Slowey; at best, if you're a competitive team, you trade a middling prospect for him to round out a rotation.

That's pretty much exactly what I'm suggesting. And, as was clearly stated in the article, we're not talking about Slowey specifically because that ain't happening.

But I like the idea of seeking out an undervalued under-30 pitcher with good peripherals in another organization who can be given an opportunity and -- if it works out -- potentially figure into the team's plans beyond this year without much expense. The rotation should be an auditioning ground in the second half, and the more viable candidates they can try out, the better. (Are guys like P.J. Walters, Cole De Vries and Andrew Albers viable long-term options? I don't really think so.)

jokin
06-19-2013, 02:58 PM
They could be good in 2014, if they wanted to try ..... not sure why people are already writing next year off.

Many in the "patience" camp are already beginning to write off 2015, as well, beginning to look like a pattern....Hmmm....Must be nostalgic for the post-WS 90s Twins.

jokin
06-19-2013, 03:03 PM
That's pretty much exactly what I'm suggesting. And, as was clearly stated in the article, we're not talking about Slowey specifically because that ain't happening.

But I like the idea of seeking out an undervalued under-30 pitcher with good peripherals in another organization who can be given an opportunity and -- if it works out -- potentially figure into the team's plans beyond this year without much expense. The rotation should be an auditioning ground in the second half, and the more viable candidates they can try out, the better. (Are guys like P.J. Walters, Cole De Vries and Andrew Albers viable long-term options? I don't really think so.)

Right. It's foolish to dismiss out of hand that guys like Slowey don't offer low-cost, low-risk, value-added options to GMs in need of arms at only a $750,000 salary to find out the answer. Guys that appear to have the chance to turn it around health-wise is right up Terry Ryan's basic MO. Only he generally goes for guys recovering from even worse injury calamities.

jokin
06-19-2013, 03:04 PM
Slowey is never going to want to come back to the Twins....and I don't think the Twins will ever ask for him. It's a dead issue.

Yup. That well is poisoned by both sides. How about Francisco Liriano? The Pirates appear to have a Comeback Player of the Year on their hands, at the cost of only $1M, plus a team-friendly team option year in 2014. The Twins and Liriano apparently poisoned that well, too.

PseudoSABR
06-19-2013, 03:23 PM
That's pretty much exactly what I'm suggesting. And, as was clearly stated in the article, we're not talking about Slowey specifically because that ain't happening.

But I like the idea of seeking out an undervalued under-30 pitcher with good peripherals in another organization who can be given an opportunity and -- if it works out -- potentially figure into the team's plans beyond this year without much expense. The rotation should be an auditioning ground in the second half, and the more viable candidates they can try out, the better. (Are guys like P.J. Walters, Cole De Vries and Andrew Albers viable long-term options? I don't really think so.)Fair enough. But the names you mention (along with Deduno) are our Sloweys. Be it without the pedigree or the major league track record.

Brian Matusz fits your profile and somebody I'd like to see the Twins fetch.

PseudoSABR
06-19-2013, 03:36 PM
Only he generally goes for guys recovering from even worse injury calamities.Right. Only two or three such signings this offseason. (Pelfry, Harden, Perez).

Steve_h
06-19-2013, 03:54 PM
Realistically, a MLB team, even a rebuilding one, can only roll the dice on one or two of these low-risk, high-reward guys per year. The Twins rolled with Pelfrey and it hasn't been terrible -- but also not successful. We've seen improvements in recent starts. The Marlins tried Slowey (and others) and the Pirates Liriano. Let's not drool over Liriano or Slowey too much. Liriano has exactly 8 starts and we can all remember 8 consecutive good starts with the Twins too. It's just that those 8 good starts are usually followed by 5 bad ones. He's just inconsistent.

johnnydakota
06-19-2013, 04:02 PM
Maybe the Twins are protecting Gibson from Anderson?

ALessKosherScott
06-19-2013, 05:41 PM
But I like the idea of seeking out an undervalued under-30 pitcher with good peripherals in another organization who can be given an opportunity and -- if it works out -- potentially figure into the team's plans beyond this year without much expense.

While I firmly agree that I'd trade any current Twins starter for Kevin Slowey, could we not dub Vance Worley a guy with good peripherals? And what does it say about our current system that Worley and Deduno (two guys who showed strikeout ability last year) are currently sitting at 4.6 and 4.5 K/9 respectively? Why couldn't the Twins fix Liriano? What was the bigger issue problem with Garza? Whose dog did Kyle Gibson kick? And why does it seem like we're going around in the same circles with finding a rotation over and over again?

diehardtwinsfan
06-19-2013, 08:23 PM
Yup. That well is poisoned by both sides. How about Francisco Liriano? The Pirates appear to have a Comeback Player of the Year on their hands, at the cost of only $1M, plus a team-friendly team option year in 2014. The Twins and Liriano apparently poisoned that well, too.

FWIW, I don't think Liriano was a good fit in this org either. I'm quite happy with what we got in trade for him, and that's sad as I was hoping he'd get off to a decent start and net more... That said, he wasn't going to flourish here. Just read in another article posted here that Pit made a few minor adjustments and he's walking a lot less guys while still getting the grounders... he also does his game plan based on what he has working... I hope he does well and gets another payday... never felt he was a cancer or anything like that.

jokin
06-20-2013, 05:01 AM
Realistically, a MLB team, even a rebuilding one, can only roll the dice on one or two of these low-risk, high-reward guys per year. The Twins rolled with Pelfrey and it hasn't been terrible -- but also not successful. We've seen improvements in recent starts. The Marlins tried Slowey (and others) and the Pirates Liriano. Let's not drool over Liriano or Slowey too much. Liriano has exactly 8 starts and we can all remember 8 consecutive good starts with the Twins too. It's just that those 8 good starts are usually followed by 5 bad ones. He's just inconsistent.

The vast gulf in talent difference between Liriano and Slowey is enormous. Liriano's stuff is glowingly electric, whereas Slowey's stuff is akin to rubbing 2 sticks together. The Twins dithered on what exactly to do with Liriano and they resultantly yet again, sold near his low point. You just can't do that continually with the few real elite talents that come through an organization and hope to stay competitive. What they appeared to always have with Francisco was "a failure to communicate." Knowing this reccurent fact appeared uncorrectable over his tenure here, they should have traded him at his peak after 2010, as many of us were suggesting. Instead they settled for a glorified LOOGY, and probably at best, a marginal utility option.

old nurse
06-20-2013, 06:06 AM
While I firmly agree that I'd trade any current Twins starter for Kevin Slowey, could we not dub Vance Worley a guy with good peripherals? And what does it say about our current system that Worley and Deduno (two guys who showed strikeout ability last year) are currently sitting at 4.6 and 4.5 K/9 respectively? Why couldn't the Twins fix Liriano? What was the bigger issue problem with Garza? Whose dog did Kyle Gibson kick? And why does it seem like we're going around in the same circles with finding a rotation over and over again?
Deduno's ERA is at 3.2. I'll take that over a higher k/9. His k% last year of 16% would indicate he is not a high strikeout pitcher.

cmathewson
06-20-2013, 07:55 AM
Excuses? He's pitched well this year. No one's ever called him an ace but he's better than much of what the Twins have in their system (as is Francisco Liriano, BTW). They seem to have a habit of letting the wrong guys go, which has helped get them to this point.



I don't think I've said otherwise. The K-rate and low hit totals are very impressive, but I've heard more than one scout-type express legit concern about his command issues. He's certainly not dominating in Double-A the way that a 23-year-old heralded as a top-of-rotation talent could be.

And even with the clean test results, shoulder soreness is worrisome.

He was pretty horrible the last year plus of his time with the Twins. I don't think anybody was too sad to see him go, outside of a few who focused more on his minor league and early major league stats. Much of this was injury-related, sure. But it's a huge surprise that he is doing this well considering his three-team journey the last two years.