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View Full Version : Astros looking to take Colin Moran #1? Let's hope so.



InfraRen
05-22-2013, 03:56 PM
Kiley McDaniel‏@kileymcd
Working on Mock Draft likely up on Monday. Big development since the last one is real momentum to UNC 3B Colin Moran going #1 overall to HOU





Kiley McDaniel‏@kileymcd2m
Astros have had parade of high level scouts in to see Moran including GM & Owner. Would clearly be discount on slot but isn't just posturing




Kiley McDaniel‏@kileymcd2m
Doesn't sound like Appel/Gray are open to giving a big discount, so Moran looks like the target if HOU decides to replicate 2012 strategy.



This would be the best possible thing for the Twins, leaving one of Appel, Gray or Bryant available for us. Let's hope so!

cmb0252
05-22-2013, 04:06 PM
I still don't buy it but if, big if, they actually take Moran at 1 that still doesn't mean the Rockies won't take a pitcher. They need pitching more than us.

InfraRen
05-22-2013, 04:10 PM
I still don't buy it but if, big if, they actually take Moran at 1 that still doesn't mean the Rockies won't take a pitcher. They need pitching more than us.

If that's the case, so be it - we still get the biggest power guy in the draft in Kris Bryant.

Steve Lein
05-22-2013, 04:12 PM
I really hope this happens, as I would like the Twins to get a Gray/Appel/Bryant far more than anyone else in this draft, BUT, it strikes me as extreme posturing considering the player Houston drafted last year with the below-slot strategy, Carlos Correa, is destined for 3B already...

Twins Daily Admin
05-22-2013, 04:13 PM
If that's the case, so be it - we still get the biggest power guy in the draft in Kris Bryant.

Agreed. This would be big news. Bryant looks to be a special bat. I'd be happier with Appel or Gray, just because of need, but Bryant looks like the real deal too.

Cap'n Piranha
05-22-2013, 04:16 PM
I still don't buy it but if, big if, they actually take Moran at 1 that still doesn't mean the Rockies won't take a pitcher. They need pitching more than us.

Obviously Gray or Appel would be great to pair with Meyer, but what Kris Bryant is doing is pretty ridiculous.

.338/.496/.876, 12 2B, 3 3B, 30 HR, 57BB, 37K.

That's insane. A Buxton-Rosario-Mauer-Sano-Bryant-Arcia-Walker-Hicks-Santana lineup has the potential to be absolutely lethal as early as 2015-2016.

InfraRen
05-22-2013, 04:17 PM
Wow, Cap'n - that lineup would be nuts.

Bryant is a heck of a "consolation prize" if the pitchers are gone.

Dance with Disco Dan
05-22-2013, 04:26 PM
Damn you, Kiley McDaniel for reviving a shred of hope that one of the consensus top 3 falls to the Twins. It took me awhile to let it go and focus on the likely candidates at pick no. 4.

I would normally chalk this report up as Houston posturing, to warm Gray or Appel up to the idea of taking a discount. But McDaniel's contention that the owner is flying around to look at Moran makes me take this idea much more seriously. I guess we'll see soon. If this happens, sign me up for whoever is left. Would love either Gray or Bryant.

mike wants wins
05-22-2013, 04:30 PM
I'll take that bet, what odds do people want? Gray or Appel will be the pick, I'd bet Gray if I had to pick one. But I'm happy to take the field over Moran....

YourHouseIsMyHouse
05-22-2013, 05:14 PM
Well I'm not sure this is anything to be hopeful for. 2 and 3 would likely be Gray and Appel anyway. Bryant really isn't much of above the rest in my book. I'd still take Stewart given the remaining choices, but that's just me.

diehardtwinsfan
05-22-2013, 05:50 PM
Well I'm not sure this is anything to be hopeful for. 2 and 3 would likely be Gray and Appel anyway. Bryant really isn't much of above the rest in my book. I'd still take Stewart given the remaining choices, but that's just me.

This. In no world is an ace worth less than a power bat. You see it in what people pay for pitching, and in how hard it is to find a good ace. The advantage Bryant has is that he's much more of a sure thing than a guy like Stewart, but in terms of ceilings, Stewart, Gray, and Appel are far better options.

I certainly wouldn't cry about getting Bryant, but a lineup full of sluggers wont' be winning many games without good pitching... and we all know well what types of pitchers that our rotation would be augmented with.

Anorthagen
05-22-2013, 06:06 PM
I the Twins have the opportunity a take a #1 starter in the draft they won't hesitate. No matter if it is the next mike trout up there

cmb0252
05-22-2013, 06:28 PM
I the Twins have the opportunity a take a #1 starter in the draft they won't hesitate. No matter if it is the next mike trout up there

They hesitated last year. The Twins are going to take the BPA.

johnnydakota
05-22-2013, 06:35 PM
They hesitated last year. The Twins are going to take the BPA.

As baltimore brings up Gusman and we passed on Appel last year, along with zimmerman and several others..

kab21
05-22-2013, 09:08 PM
As baltimore brings up Gusman and we passed on Appel last year, along with zimmerman and several others..

Perhaps you have missed what Buxton is doing right now and how he is getting consideration as the top overall prospect in the minors while in Low A. If Bryant is there at #4 then he should be the pick.

54 gms and 30 HR's - just ridiculous

The Twins would potentially have 3 elite bats to pair with Mauer (declining but still elite) and Arcia (well above average potential).

birdwatcher
05-22-2013, 09:15 PM
Do you guys honestly believe there's a single team that wouldn't give up its 2012 pick for Buxton?

InfraRen
05-22-2013, 09:33 PM
Do you guys honestly believe there's a single team that wouldn't give up its 2012 pick for Buxton?

Nope. I'd bet they all would.

birdwatcher
05-22-2013, 09:44 PM
So, johnnydakota, tell us more about "Gusman" and "zimmerman" and Appel and the "several others" you think the Twins were stupid enough to pass over in favor of Buxton.

Ah. That's what I thought. Criticizing out of sheer habit.

2wins87
05-23-2013, 04:04 AM
I can't see this happening, because it just seems like a terrible strategy.

I can't believe that the Astros really think Moran is a comparable talent to the other top guys in the draft. They really thought Correa was, so it was a good strategy. But this would be something like trading the first pick for the 5th pick and some pick in the middle of the first round (plus a couple of somewhat higher picks in the later rounds--in a shallow draft). Seems like an awful idea to me, I wouldn't be happy if I were an Astros fan and they did it.

MichiganTwins
05-23-2013, 07:00 AM
For this reason, we are Twins fans. So we should hope the Astros do make a dumb decision. Then, we are able to get one of the top three guys in this draft. Here's to the Astros!

mike wants wins
05-23-2013, 07:48 AM
Do you guys honestly believe there's a single team that wouldn't give up its 2012 pick for Buxton?


I think it is not as cut and dry as you think. Buxton is in low A, and Gausmann is going to start in MLB games this year. He's also looking better than people thought he'd look. Yes, Buxton is exciting and we can all hope he continues to be great at upper levels and here, but I don't think it is that cut and dry. Actually, I'd rather have Gausmann right now. He's more certain, and his ceiling is one of the top 20-30 pitchers in the game. Given that you need 5 starters, and they literally have zero right now, I'd still rather have Gausmann.

Twins Twerp
05-23-2013, 08:39 AM
I think it is not as cut and dry as you think. Buxton is in low A, and Gausmann is going to start in MLB games this year. He's also looking better than people thought he'd look. Yes, Buxton is exciting and we can all hope he continues to be great at upper levels and here, but I don't think it is that cut and dry. Actually, I'd rather have Gausmann right now. He's more certain, and his ceiling is one of the top 20-30 pitchers in the game. Given that you need 5 starters, and they literally have zero right now, I'd still rather have Gausmann.

So it's THEY when the Twins suck (like the last 2 years) and I bet it was WE when the Twins were winning. On the Buxton front...mike wants wins is the kind of guy who takes Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. Considering the Trailblazers NEEDED a center (that would be the pitcher you are talking about), they took one. Who cares if Jordan is great? I, for one, would rather have a top 3-5 position (all positions) player than a top 20-30 pitcher.

birdwatcher
05-23-2013, 08:57 AM
I think it is not as cut and dry as you think. Buxton is in low A, and Gausmann is going to start in MLB games this year. He's also looking better than people thought he'd look. Yes, Buxton is exciting and we can all hope he continues to be great at upper levels and here, but I don't think it is that cut and dry. Actually, I'd rather have Gausmann right now. He's more certain, and his ceiling is one of the top 20-30 pitchers in the game. Given that you need 5 starters, and they literally have zero right now, I'd still rather have Gausmann.

I don't HAVE an opinion about it. I'm not qualified to have one, but I still doubt, big time, that the Orioles would pass on an opportunity to trade Gausman straight up or Buxton. I think that decision would take about two seconds, given the reports we're starting to see from the scouting world on Buxton.

UCLA_YANKEE_COLA
05-23-2013, 09:15 AM
Just this offseason Buxton was considered the much better prospect by every prospect list that I saw. Since then Buxton has been the talk of the minor leagues, exceeding all expectations (and being compared to Mike Trout by Jim Callis). Gausman has been quite good but I'm pretty certain mike wants wins would be alone in preferring him to Buxton.

mike wants wins
05-23-2013, 09:27 AM
Gausmann was about 5 spots behind Buxton on at least 1 pre-season ranking. All I'm saying is taht it is not so cut and dry as you all make it.

As for "we" vs "they", I'm pretty consistent. I almost never say "we" because I'm not part of the Twins, I'm just a fan.

As for drafting for need vs elite players, I just think you are all a bit too certain of who the BPA is, we just don't know. It is possible that several players turn out better than Buxton, it is possible Buxton becomes one of the greatest players ever. Jordan was the third pick that year, not 2nd. So at least two teams were wrong, that's kind of my point. The future is darn hard to predict, and the certainty you all have that Buxton will be better is a bit over the top for me. heck, there were people bragging about how right Ryan was about KC after April.....it's just too early to know right now, imo.

You have every right to have a different opinion.

nicksaviking
05-23-2013, 09:37 AM
This report is breaking way too early for me to feel comfortable with it. Think about the backlash the Twins would be taking right now from the local media and educated fans if they were in the Astros position and were thinking about picking Moran. More reports like this could create a wave of negative public opinion that convinces the Astros to take the BPA.

nicksaviking
05-23-2013, 09:46 AM
So it's THEY when the Twins suck (like the last 2 years) and I bet it was WE when the Twins were winning. On the Buxton front...mike wants wins is the kind of guy who takes Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. Considering the Trailblazers NEEDED a center (that would be the pitcher you are talking about), they took one. Who cares if Jordan is great? I, for one, would rather have a top 3-5 position (all positions) player than a top 20-30 pitcher.

I think you probably need to link some evidence of Mike using We vs. They if you're going to throw around those kinds of accusations.

I wanted Gausman (or Appel), and I didn't think the decision should have even been close. But I'll admit I was wrong and am now happy with the Buxton choice. Still wish the Twins had an arm like Gausman ready to contribute though. Comparing Gausman/Buxton to Bowie/Jordan is a pretty dramatic leap however. It's not like Buxton and Gausman were ever really that far apart on the prospect scale, they were pretty evenly matched. It was more like the Josh Beckett/Josh Hamilton debate though on a lesser scale, those two were bigger names at the time.

Twins Twerp
05-23-2013, 10:31 AM
Gausmann was about 5 spots behind Buxton on at least 1 pre-season ranking. All I'm saying is taht it is not so cut and dry as you all make it.

As for "we" vs "they", I'm pretty consistent. I almost never say "we" because I'm not part of the Twins, I'm just a fan.

As for drafting for need vs elite players, I just think you are all a bit too certain of who the BPA is, we just don't know. It is possible that several players turn out better than Buxton, it is possible Buxton becomes one of the greatest players ever. Jordan was the third pick that year, not 2nd. So at least two teams were wrong, that's kind of my point. The future is darn hard to predict, and the certainty you all have that Buxton will be better is a bit over the top for me. heck, there were people bragging about how right Ryan was about KC after April.....it's just too early to know right now, imo.

You have every right to have a different opinion.

Yes he was and I didn't say that he wasn't. But Hakeem Olajuwon was the first pick and he was a hall of famer so I feel like that wasn't a terrible pick. He also won his club 2 championships so I feel it was a wash. Still would have taken Jordan but...if it is too early for Buxton, is it not to early for Gausman?

mike wants wins
05-23-2013, 10:48 AM
yes, that's my point.....it is too early to know....so I'd bet there are teams that would rather have the guy dominating AA, than the guy in low A, but I could be wrong. I'm at least willing to admit that I could be wrong, and the answer is not 100% obvious. That's the whole point of my posts, we just don't know, and therefore there should be room for polite disagreement, w/o name calling and other implications of stupidity.....

ThePuck
05-23-2013, 11:14 AM
I still don't buy it but if, big if, they actually take Moran at 1 that still doesn't mean the Rockies won't take a pitcher. They need pitching more than us.

I don't think many saw Correa being picked by Houston #1 last year

ThePuck
05-23-2013, 11:19 AM
As baltimore brings up Gusman and we passed on Appel last year, along with zimmerman and several others..

It's Zimmer, johnny. Kyle Zimmer.

cmb0252
05-23-2013, 11:22 AM
I don't think many saw Correa being picked by Houston #1 last year

While he was a surprise pick at #1 it wasn't because of talent. Sickels had Correa as his #1. BA had him at #2. Law mentioned he had scouts tell him that they wouldn't be surprised if Correa ended being the best prospect from the draft based on talent. Anyone who has followed the draft knows Moran isn't in the same conversation talent wise as the people ahead of him.

The Astros are doing their homework. Also, like with Stewart trying build up leverage by using "I want to go to college" I bet that's what they are doing. Making it public that they can take a guy under slot to build leverage.

ThePuck
05-23-2013, 11:25 AM
I don't HAVE an opinion about it. I'm not qualified to have one

If you have no opinion, and if you don't have an opinion because you aren't qualified to have one (as YOU say), then why are you even on this site discussing anything to do with the Twins? You could say you weren't qualified to have an opinion on practically any topic on this site, couldn't you?

ThePuck
05-23-2013, 11:28 AM
While he was a surprise pick at #1 it wasn't because of talent. Sickels had Correa as his #1. BA had him at #2. Law mentioned he had scouts tell him that they wouldn't be surprised if Correa ended being the best prospect from the draft based on talent. Anyone who has followed the draft knows Moran isn't in the same conversation talent wise as the people ahead of him.

The Astros are doing their homework. Also, like with Stewart trying build up leverage by using "I want to go to college" I bet that's what they are doing. Making it public that they can take a guy under slot to build leverage.

You mean in their final mock drafts? By people paid to try and predict what teams will do.

I could be wrong, and please correct me if I am (cause it's about the truth), but I don't remember Correa being that high up at this point last year.

cmb0252
05-23-2013, 11:30 AM
If you have no opinion, and if you don't have an opinion because you aren't qualified to have one (as YOU say), then why are you even on this site discussing anything to do with the Twins? Is it just to slam other people's opinions constantly...well, scratch that, slam other people's opinions that disagree with the Twins moves? Is that all you're here to do, parrot the opinions of ownership and the FO?

Mike is here to argue BPA vs Need. This is what keeps 90% of the draft/prospect forums going!

ThePuck
05-23-2013, 11:32 AM
Mike is here to argue BPA vs Need. This is what keeps 90% of the draft/prospect forums going!

My post was in response to birdwatcher...not Mike. Mike asked him for an opinion and his response was 'I don't HAVE an opinion about it. I'm not qualified to have one'. That comment is a way to say Mikes opinion wasn't valid over the Twins' decisions because the Twins are qualified. Of course, after saying he didn't have an opinion he went on to give an opinion anyway that, of course, supported the Twins' decision.

So I wonder, if that's the kind of response he gives, on what topics in here does he think he's qualified to have.

The man goes around slamming any opinion that differs from what Twins management does.

cmb0252
05-23-2013, 11:38 AM
You mean in their final mock drafts? By people paid to try and predict what teams will do.

I could be wrong, and please correct me if I am (cause it's about the truth), but I don't remember Correa being that high up at this point last year.

I don't remember where people had Correa in the mocks, currently there isnt a single mock out there with Moran going before the Indians, but I remember Correa in the up coming days being linked heavily with the Astros/Twins/mariners.

cmb0252
05-23-2013, 11:39 AM
My post was in response to birdwatcher...not Mike. Mike asked him for an opinion and his response was 'I don't HAVE an opinion about it. I'm not qualified to have one'. Since he disagree with Mike's opinion, apparently, that's a way to say Mikes opinion wasn't valid over the Twins' decisions because they are qualified. So I wonder, if that's the kind of response he gives, on what topics in here does he think he's qualified to have.

The man goes around slamming any opinion that differs from what Twins management does.

Fiddle sticks...you are right. My bad!

ThePuck
05-23-2013, 11:47 AM
I don't remember where people had Correa in the mocks, currently there isnt a single mock out there with Moran going before the Indians, but I remember Correa in the up coming days being linked heavily with the Astros/Twins/mariners.

which likely affected the mocks. let's see how the mocks end up right before the draft

drjim
05-23-2013, 11:58 AM
I'll take that bet, what odds do people want? Gray or Appel will be the pick, I'd bet Gray if I had to pick one. But I'm happy to take the field over Moran....

Courageous bet right there.

InfraRen
05-23-2013, 12:15 PM
From Keith Law's Chat Today:

Ryan (Denver)

Pretty much every mock draft I've seen has the same 3 guys in the same order at the top. Do you think there is any chance that the Astros or Cubs take Bryant or another bat?

Klaw (1:10 PM)

My mock explicitly mentioned Moran as a candidate at the first pick. I think there's at least a 25% chance he's the guy there, maybe higher. That would jumble the top five a little - the Cubs would take Appel, then the Rockies might take Gray over Bryant, and Cleveland would hope to get Bryant if the Twins stick with Stewart.

ThePuck
05-23-2013, 12:36 PM
I'll take that bet, what odds do people want? Gray or Appel will be the pick, I'd bet Gray if I had to pick one. But I'm happy to take the field over Moran....


I love it when people step up and put themselves out there. Nice.

zenser
05-23-2013, 01:01 PM
With rumors like this and also rumors of the Twins going under slot, wouldn't teams need a lot of luck to have their guys fall to them in the second round? I am just trying to understand the process of going under slot. I know we don't know the teams draft boards but wouldn't they be taking a big gamble going under slot in hopes of having their guy fall? I know it worked out last year for Houston having McCullers fall. If I do remember, it was pretty well known that it would take a lot of money for him to sign. But also last year, it seemed like the talent level was pretty solid from in the 10-25 range. If the Twins or in this case the Astros go under slot, who would be the target? I really haven't heard any monetary demands or expectations. One other question, would the second round pick, if going under slot, be a college junior and/or HS kid who has some leverage by going back to school? Thanks for your responses on this. I am just trying to figure out the hows and whys.

cmb0252
05-23-2013, 01:29 PM
With rumors like this and also rumors of the Twins going under slot, wouldn't teams need a lot of luck to have their guys fall to them in the second round? I am just trying to understand the process of going under slot. I know we don't know the teams draft boards but wouldn't they be taking a big gamble going under slot in hopes of having their guy fall? I know it worked out last year for Houston having McCullers fall. If I do remember, it was pretty well known that it would take a lot of money for him to sign. But also last year, it seemed like the talent level was pretty solid from in the 10-25 range. If the Twins or in this case the Astros go under slot, who would be the target? I really haven't heard any monetary demands or expectations. One other question, would the second round pick, if going under slot, be a college junior and/or HS kid who has some leverage by going back to school? Thanks for your responses on this. I am just trying to figure out the hows and whys.

Let's see if I can answer all these.

There are only two reasons to go under slot in the first round. First is because you are cheap and want save money ala the Marlins last year. Second is because you plan to save money on your first pick to spend over slot later. Seeing the Twins spent more money than anyone last year and pressure to draft well we can reasonably establish they fall into the second reason to go under slot. The big question you ask, wouldn't teams need a lot of luck to have their guys fall to them in the second round? Basic answer is sort of...

Obviously no one exactly knows who is taking who but it is part of the front offices job to have an idea. Scouts talk to other scouts. Scouts gage signabilty by talking to players .Scouts recognize other scouts/front office types and report it. If a team is spending money/time to send multiple scouts to watch a guy clearly they are interested. Does that mean they will take that player? Of course not and that is where the luck comes in. No one really knows how the draft will precede.

As to the who. Majority of the players will be HSers or college juniors who fell because of health concerns. Here is a list Matt Garrioch put together about signability issue guys:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/5/20/4344286/2013-mlb-draft-players-with-signability-questions

cmb0252
05-23-2013, 03:25 PM
Over at Crawfish Boxes, Astros SB Nation forum, they talked about McDaniel's tweet and posted a few other ones by a local writer. Interesting read for those of you really hoping the Astros grab Moran.

Astros 2013 MLB Draft Notes: Colin Moran Making Push For First Selection - The Crawfish Boxes (http://www.crawfishboxes.com/2013/5/23/4357984/astros-2013-mlb-draft-notes-colin-moran-making-push-for-first)

Einstein
05-24-2013, 12:15 PM
Moran is starting to grow on me if the big 3 are gone. I'd probably still take Stewart, but if the Twins feel the negotiations with him could grow unruly, Moran would be an acceptable alternative in my book. The guy can hit, he's got a quick bat, he's got a good eye at the plate, he's got some power potential, he can play multiple positions (3B, 1B, probably corner OF) and being a college player he won't need as long to develop.

cmb0252
05-24-2013, 01:23 PM
Moran is starting to grow on me if the big 3 are gone. I'd probably still take Stewart, but if the Twins feel the negotiations with him could grow unruly, Moran would be an acceptable alternative in my book. The guy can hit, he's got a quick bat, he's got a good eye at the plate, he's got some power potential, he can play multiple positions (3B, 1B, probably corner OF) and being a college player he won't need as long to develop.

Count me on the other side. If the big 3 are gone give me Stewart, Frazier, or Shipley under slot so we can grab Boldt/Serrano in the second. I don't trust Moran's glove.

mike wants wins
05-24-2013, 01:29 PM
Frazier isn't going under slot, not enough to matter anyway. But yes, Frazier or Shipley or even Stanek are my preference over Moran.

cmb0252
05-24-2013, 01:40 PM
Frazier isn't going under slot, not enough to matter anyway. But yes, Frazier or Shipley or even Stanek are my preference over Moran.

Sorry, meant to say Stewart/Frazier OR Shipley specifically under slot. In BA's recent draft they mentioned the Marlins might take Shipley to save money at 6:

"The industry buzz continues to be that the Marlins will look to save money with their first-round selection. Miami is expected to cut a deal with Shipley or McGuire, with New Mexico corner infielder D.J. Peterson a third option. Frazier and Meadows might factor in here as well."

If they could cut a deal with him at 6 how big of a discount can we get? As I say this, I'm not huge on Shipley but I much rather have him on the cheap over Moran at full slot.

Einstein
05-25-2013, 11:15 AM
Count me on the other side. If the big 3 are gone give me Stewart, Frazier, or Shipley under slot so we can grab Boldt/Serrano in the second. I don't trust Moran's glove.What makes you think that they could get Stewart, Frazier or Shipley under slot but not Moran?

Here's a Joey Votto comp on Moran: 2013 MLB Mock Draft: The Star Each Projected First-Round Pick Most Resembles | Bleacher Report (http://www.t0peducationsearch.com/articles/1638770-2013-mlb-mock-draft-the-star-each-projected-first-round-pick-most-resembles)

Who couldn't use a Joey Votto?