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Shane Wahl
04-29-2013, 05:47 PM
Brave indeed. Chris Broussard is off his rocker.

And forget "tolerance" and move toward acceptance.

TheLeviathan
04-29-2013, 08:25 PM
Explain Broussard reference please?

Good for him!

drjim
04-29-2013, 09:19 PM
Good for Collins.

I don't agree with Broussard, but what he said should not be that controversial of a position for a Christian to take. Not culturally sensitive but not off his rocker.

Here is the quote:

Personally, I don’t believe that you can live an openly homosexual lifestyle, or like, premarital sex between heterosexuals… it says that that’s a sin… I believe that’s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. So, I would not characterize that person as a Christian, because I don’t think the Bible would characterize that person as a Christian.

TheLeviathan
04-29-2013, 09:23 PM
Yeah, I disagree with Broussard, but he said that about as non-offensively as he can. Unfortunately most all major religions are still about exclusion as opposed to inclusion.

biggentleben
04-29-2013, 09:42 PM
Good for Collins.

I don't agree with Broussard, but what he said should not be that controversial of a position for a Christian to take. Not culturally sensitive but not off his rocker.


His last sentence is where he's off his rocker. Basic Christian theology at its core says we're all sinners, fell short of being worthy of heaven on our own, and required Jesus as a sacrifice for all of our sins - past, current, and future. At the very basic level of Christian theology, everyone is in open rebellion to God in every moment of his/her earthly life, and by Broussard's words, that would deem them "not a Christian".

Christianity is under fire for exactly reasons like this - the extreme nutjobs don't just attack those who don't believe in Christ, but those who do as well.

TheLeviathan
04-29-2013, 09:48 PM
I think Broussard meant by "open rebellion" = "sin with no desire forgiveness" - that's how I read it. That is considerably different than what you are suggesting ben.

Shane Wahl
04-29-2013, 10:40 PM
Good lord (literally). He's using his religion to condemn someone as a "non-christian."

FYI people: one can be a Christian and not hate gay people or think they are special dirty sinners at the same time.

Or, if that is a wrong interpretation of my part, PERHAPS the religion itself should be called into question?

biggentleben
04-29-2013, 10:41 PM
I think Broussard meant by "open rebellion" = "sin with no desire forgiveness" - that's how I read it. That is considerably different than what you are suggesting ben.

Yep, and there are plenty we do every day. Nearly every Christian church allows for a remarried pastor who has been divorced to serve in ministry, and Jesus specifically spoke against that sin and said nothing directly on homosexuality. I doubt the divorced pastor is going to kick his new wife to the curb so he's not in "open rebellion", yet his "rebellion" is accepted and being homosexual is not.

TheLeviathan
04-29-2013, 10:45 PM
Yep, and there are plenty we do every day. Nearly every Christian church allows for a remarried pastor who has been divorced to serve in ministry, and Jesus specifically spoke against that sin and said nothing directly on homosexuality. I doubt the divorced pastor is going to kick his new wife to the curb so he's not in "open rebellion", yet his "rebellion" is accepted and being homosexual is not.

But here's the thing - Collins isn't asking for forgiveness (nor should he have to) - that's the "open" part I think you're missing.

And I'm not defending Broussard's point - I think it's entirely idiotic - but I don't think it was offensive. Stupid, but not "off his rocker" - it's not an uncommon Christian belief unfortunately.

Ultima Ratio
04-30-2013, 02:16 AM
What I've learned it this thread (There may be a little staw man at work, but not much -- enjoy, my brothers and sisters):

1. It's a sin to be a Christian (who takes the Bible seriously), or at least unfortunate and idiotic.

2. Understanding the distinction of sex-act and sexuality is not understood or of no avail.

3. The word "repent" is not nearly as well understood as I thought, but what I think doesn't matter (see 6).

4. Identifying sin is hateful or at least culturally insensitive, but only when the identification is relevant to endeared victim groups demanding validation (see that identifying premarital heterosexual sex as sin is neither hateful nor culturally insensitive).

5. The only good Christian is the Christian willing to believe whatever is expedient and whatever will ingratiate oneself to others (see 6 and inclusivity).

6. TD can never have enough threads and posts

a) celebrating tolerance and acceptance
b) bashing views contrary to (a)

7. Inconsistency doesn't matter as long as you hold the correct views....today (see 5 and inclusivity/exclusivity)

8. Irony may not be well understood (see 6 and 7)

9. Writing this list is super mean and bigoted, some will think.

10. Therefore, this post will be flagged as offensive (see 7, 8, and 9)

TheLeviathan
04-30-2013, 06:48 AM
In lieu of an actual point I guess I would suggest another:

11. This list is not, in fact super mean, but fails to be witty, thought provoking, or relevant.

drjim
04-30-2013, 06:53 AM
Thanks Levi you pretty much nailed any point I would have made.

SpiritofVodkaDave
04-30-2013, 06:56 AM
Broussard is a hack and they never should have had his ass on the air to begin with, as a Christian (Catholic) myself I find his "speaking of behalf of the religion" to be highly inflammatory and off base as well. He was also going off about how if you have pre martial sex you aren't a Christian....yeah..... what was ESPN thinking by bringing him on?

mike wants wins
04-30-2013, 08:02 AM
I think it was a brave act, otherwise it wouldn't be a big deal. You can read all over the interwebs the hatred for homosexuals and those that are fighting for them to have equal rights. Just read the Kluew threads on PFT for evidence of that.....

As for religions, well, in addition to being about power, they are made up of people trying to interpret words that other people wrote about some kind of being that they all admit they can't understand. It is no wonder that so much of the intolerance, hatred, and violence of this world is driven by religion. Personally, I have no issue with Christains thinking sin exists, and that certain things are sins even if I totally disagree. The issue I have is trying to force their belief on others. NO ONE is forcing any church to marry homosexuals (just as no one is forcing the Catholic church to have female priests), all people are asking for is that governments be allowed to offer the same legal rights to homosexual couples that heterosexual couples have (well, to be fair, there is a tiny fringe asking for non-couple rights also, but I don't think that is a real thing).

In summary, good for the brave man, bad for intolerance and bigotry, freedom is eventually coming to all.

biggentleben
04-30-2013, 11:14 AM
But here's the thing - Collins isn't asking for forgiveness (nor should he have to) - that's the "open" part I think you're missing.

However, neither would the divorced and remarried person either. That's what my point was. Nearly every Christian denomination would accept a divorced and remarried pastor to lead their congregation, and certainly they would not question the validity of his faith.

Brock Beauchamp
04-30-2013, 11:25 AM
How many references are there to homosexuality in the Bible? Does it extend beyond the lunacy of Leviticus?

Because if it doesn't, I doubt there are many people out there who ask for forgiveness when they touch pig flesh or get a tattoo, yet they're still considered Christians.

biggentleben
04-30-2013, 11:41 AM
How many references are there to homosexuality in the Bible? Does it extend beyond the lunacy of Leviticus?

Because if it doesn't, I doubt there are many people out there who ask for forgiveness when they touch pig flesh or get a tattoo, yet they're still considered Christians.

There are 5: Leviticus, the Genesis story of Sodom, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:9-10. Nothing from Jesus in the Gospels or Acts.

Brock Beauchamp
04-30-2013, 11:54 AM
There are 5: Leviticus, the Genesis story of Sodom, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Timothy 1:9-10. Nothing from Jesus in the Gospels or Acts.

Ah, okay. Still, my point applies. There is no sliding scale for the "level of sin". Anyone who claims that living outside the Bible without asking forgiveness is a hypocrite because everybody lives outside the Bible, and for good reason. You'd be thrown in jail in this country if you lived your life based on the book of Leviticus, yet last time I checked, that book is still in the Old Testament.

PseudoSABR
04-30-2013, 01:20 PM
endeared victim groupsThis is the tail on your donkey.

TheLeviathan
04-30-2013, 04:00 PM
This is the tail on your donkey.

I always chuckle when Christians get high and mighty about divorce. That one made me laugh too. As if the "sin" of premarital sex has one iota of the same amount of attention Christians are giving to gays.

Also, didn't Christianity essentially start with God having premarital sex with a virgin? That was my understanding.....

mike wants wins
04-30-2013, 04:25 PM
I always chuckle when any religion says some sins should be against the law, because they are sins, but other sins, not so much. There has to be more to it than just sin to be agains the law, otherwise liars would be in prison.....heck, just coveting your neighbors wife inside your head without even doing anything about it would put you in jail. Those ones were supposedly written by lightning onto tablets for all to see, yet no one wants to make those against the law.....*

*well, no one in the US that has any influence anyway

mikecgrimes
04-30-2013, 06:36 PM
A 34 year old who averaged a point a game and has no contract next year is kind of putting the league in a bad spot. Still don't know of a single pro athlete who has declared there straightness. Just seems kind of selfish to use this in an attempt to get a job next year, why not do it at 29 or after you retire?

Brock Beauchamp
05-01-2013, 06:52 AM
A 34 year old who averaged a point a game and has no contract next year is kind of putting the league in a bad spot. Still don't know of a single pro athlete who has declared there straightness.

You have to be kidding me. Collins has put the LEAGUE in a bad spot? Oh, poor NBA. I don't know how they'll cope, knowing that a gay man is prancing up and down their courts three times a week.

As for declaring straightness...

/facepalm

Collins did this at exactly the right time. He's nearing the end of his career. He won't have too many ugly road games in front of him but the point is still made... He's an active professional athlete who has publicly declared his homosexuality. There's a reason this has never happened. Athletes are scared to do it because of public backlash in an arena of society that isn't known for its progressive thought processes.

mikecgrimes
05-01-2013, 05:23 PM
You have to be kidding me. Collins has put the LEAGUE in a bad spot? Oh, poor NBA. I don't know how they'll cope, knowing that a gay man is prancing up and down their courts three times a week.

As for declaring straightness...

/facepalm

Collins did this at exactly the right time. He's nearing the end of his career.

That right there makes my point. He's nearing the end of his career? No he's a 34 year old that averaged 1 point a game who has no contract. Sure a team might of signed him but given the veteran minimum I doubt it. Now the league has no choice but to find a spot for him, at the expense by the way of someone else. We all make big decisions based on more then one factor, if his contract situation had anything to do with it then he is pathetic. Only he knows the truth, and he will continue to have to live with the truth. Having people in Idaho know he happens to prefer men to women will be of little impact to him other then the pressure it puts on the NBA to give him one more undeserved contract.

mikecgrimes
05-01-2013, 05:30 PM
By the way the idea that he or even a star player would have to deal with half of what Jackie Robinson dealt with is dumb at best. We as a society are fine with homosexuals. That being said we as a society do not care who you prefer to have sexual relations with and find it self serving to make a big deal about it.

biggentleben
05-01-2013, 05:32 PM
By the way the idea that he or even a star player would have to deal with half of what Jackie Robinson dealt with is dumb at best. We as a society are fine with homosexuals. That being said we as a society do not care who you prefer to have sexual relations with and find it self serving to make a big deal about it.

Not sure what society you're a part of, but that's not true of much of society and CERTAINLY is not true in the society of professional male athletes who are active in their sport.

Brock Beauchamp
05-01-2013, 05:36 PM
We as a society are fine with homosexuals.

Yeah, that's not true at all. Not even a little bit. If society was fine with homosexuals, why are people up in arms about them getting married? Why do people protest their very existence? Why do politicians fight laws that deny employers the right to fire people based solely on sexual preference? If society was fine with homosexuals, no one would fire them for being gay in the first place.

And, again, if this is "no big deal", why is Collins the first active player in any major sport to publicly announce his homosexuality?

The law of numbers and the complete absence of other publicly gay active players dictate that this is a very big deal, whether you want to view it that way or not.


That being said we as a society do not care who you prefer to have sexual relations with and find it self serving to make a big deal about it.

No, it shouldn't be a big deal. Collins should be able to go to awards ceremonies, dinner, team events, continue ad nauseum, with his partner, male or female and nobody should care.

What I find "self-serving" are the people who think that men like Collins should stay in the closet because gay people are icky. He has every damned right to live his life and be honest about it, just like everybody else.

biggentleben
05-01-2013, 05:37 PM
That right there makes my point. He's nearing the end of his career? No he's a 34 year old that averaged 1 point a game who has no contract. Sure a team might of signed him but given the veteran minimum I doubt it. Now the league has no choice but to find a spot for him, at the expense by the way of someone else. We all make big decisions based on more then one factor, if his contract situation had anything to do with it then he is pathetic. Only he knows the truth, and he will continue to have to live with the truth. Having people in Idaho know he happens to prefer men to women will be of little impact to him other then the pressure it puts on the NBA to give him one more undeserved contract.

I won't claim to be a well-versed NBA fan, but basically anyone who is an "expert" on NBA has said that he is a perfect backup center for purposes of defense. You cite points per game as if that's the only impact that a 7-foot tall player could have on the court. He's done nothing to the league. He's a guy who's living on one-year veteran's minimum contracts at this point, and he was all but guaranteed another one for 2013-2014 before this announcement. The league is in no different place now than they were before the announcement. I'm hearing from a lot of the anti-gay extreme right that same argument about the league, and most of them couldn't name more than 2 teams currently in the NBA playoffs.

Brock Beauchamp
05-01-2013, 05:39 PM
That right there makes my point. He's nearing the end of his career? No he's a 34 year old that averaged 1 point a game who has no contract. Sure a team might of signed him but given the veteran minimum I doubt it. Now the league has no choice but to find a spot for him, at the expense by the way of someone else. We all make big decisions based on more then one factor, if his contract situation had anything to do with it then he is pathetic. Only he knows the truth, and he will continue to have to live with the truth. Having people in Idaho know he happens to prefer men to women will be of little impact to him other then the pressure it puts on the NBA to give him one more undeserved contract.

I hate to break it to you but 34 year old big men in the NBA are usually near the end of their careers unless they are of extraordinary talent and/or durability. Running up and down a hardwood floor for 10+ years tends to destroy knees, ankles, and backs on even the guards, much less the seven footers.

TheLeviathan
05-01-2013, 06:03 PM
I will say, I worry that this guy might not get a job next year because he's not a very good player and this effort on his part may be minimized. Or that he may not get a job because of talent but it will be perceived as reinforcing stereotypes.

biggentleben
05-01-2013, 06:10 PM
I will say, I worry that this guy might not get a job next year because he's not a very good player and this effort on his part may be minimized. Or that he may not get a job because of talent but it will be perceived as reinforcing stereotypes.

He's 7' tall and plays solid defense. He won't have a contract if he doesn't want one, otherwise, he'll be playing.

snepp
05-01-2013, 06:40 PM
We as a society are fine with homosexuals.

In your Utopia perhaps, but not in the real world.

TheLeviathan
05-01-2013, 06:42 PM
He's 7' tall and plays solid defense. He won't have a contract if he doesn't want one, otherwise, he'll be playing.

Playing 9 minutes a game for one of the NBA's worst teams is hardly an assurance of a roster spot when you are 34. I hope he has a contract, otherwise I worry this might be mitigated.

biggentleben
05-01-2013, 10:21 PM
Playing 9 minutes a game for one of the NBA's worst teams is hardly an assurance of a roster spot when you are 34. I hope he has a contract, otherwise I worry this might be mitigated.

Part of that was the team, though. He'd have had a lot more minutes with the TWolves, the Lakers, or any number of teams who didn't already have two guys with his basic skill set.

mikecgrimes
05-03-2013, 08:26 AM
Yeah, that's not true at all. Not even a little bit. If society was fine with homosexuals, why are people up in arms about them getting married? Why do people protest their very existence? Why do politicians fight laws that deny employers the right to fire people based solely on sexual preference? If society was fine with homosexuals, no one would fire them for being gay in the first place.

And, again, if this is "no big deal", why is Collins the first active player in any major sport to publicly announce his homosexuality?

The law of numbers and the complete absence of other publicly gay active players dictate that this is a very big deal, whether you want to view it that way or not.



No, it shouldn't be a big deal. Collins should be able to go to awards ceremonies, dinner, team events, continue ad nauseum, with his partner, male or female and nobody should care.

What I find "self-serving" are the people who think that men like Collins should stay in the closet because gay people are icky. He has every damned right to live his life and be honest about it, just like everybody else.

When I say society I don't really care what people over the age of 55 think, and honestly if you think some old dude is going to sit in the 8th row behind the bench (again pretending we are actually talking about an active player) and yell slurs is stupid at best. Jackie Robinson didn't get to play the first 10 years as an unknown he was known to be black the day the first non-blind man saw him, and he was born into a very racist society. As for the whole religious and marriage debate, a true religion will never change views it may lose members but the moment it changes views it's done being meaningful, they will fight laws against their belief much more strongly then any other group. In the end who cares if the law changes now or in 2026 we know it's coming and it is legal to live a married life (I understand the critical exceptions).

I guess I'm just really bothered that a guy who has next to no chance of an NBA contract next year is doing this at this time. Essra Toualola and John Amechi have already done this, but they didn't do it in a self serving way.

mikecgrimes
05-03-2013, 08:30 AM
I hate to break it to you but 34 year old big men in the NBA are usually near the end of their careers unless they are of extraordinary talent and/or durability. Running up and down a hardwood floor for 10+ years tends to destroy knees, ankles, and backs on even the guards, much less the seven footers.

Wait so I'm not aware of that? HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU BUT I'M NOT AN IDIOT.

mikecgrimes
05-03-2013, 08:42 AM
Going into last year ESPN rated him the 391th best NBA player and falling. In the NBA there are 31 teams with 12 "ACTIVE" roster spots, Probably another 50 to 70 on injured reserve. This years NBA draft will add 30-40 players to NBA rosters not to mention other young players from prior drafts will be entering the league. To sat he is an active player or will easily sign with a team is just not true. The Stat wins above replacement assumes players who are better then Jason Collins, or in other words he is easily replaced.

Brock Beauchamp
05-03-2013, 09:55 AM
and honestly if you think some old dude is going to sit in the 8th row behind the bench (again pretending we are actually talking about an active player) and yell slurs is stupid at best.

Are you honestly telling me that fans are not going to yell slurs at him on the road?

Have you seen a sporting event in a city like Philadelphia? They booed Santa Claus, for crying out loud.

mikecgrimes
05-03-2013, 11:15 AM
Are you honestly telling me that fans are not going to yell slurs at him on the road?

Have you seen a sporting event in a city like Philadelphia? They booed Santa Claus, for crying out loud.

I'd boo to if my team was playing like crap and then they plucked some kid out of the crowd in a bad Santa outfit because the real Santa didn't show up. The thousands booing Santa were having a good time anyone yelling a slur wouldn't have a good time, it's just not a realistic expectation. Sitting behind the Texas Rangers dugout last April a few months after his relapse I didn't hear one thing about Josh Hamilton's addiction issues. it's just not socially acceptable to make those kind of comments in a public place. It's barley socially acceptable to get on the refs or umpires to bad. If you aren't drunk, and very few fans are all that drunk, nobody is going to make that sort of mistake.

biggentleben
05-03-2013, 12:27 PM
I'd boo to if my team was playing like crap and then they plucked some kid out of the crowd in a bad Santa outfit because the real Santa didn't show up.

That says it all. Thanks for clearing up any need to reply going forward.

USAFChief
05-05-2013, 03:11 PM
I hate to break it to you but 34 year old big men in the NBA are usually near the end of their careers unless they are of extraordinary talent and/or durability. Running up and down a hardwood floor for 10+ years tends to destroy knees, ankles, and backs on even the guards, much less the seven footers. I think perhaps you're missing the point. A player at the point of his career where Collins is, is certainly not guaranteed a contract next year, it's an iffy thing. I don't know what his motivations were for publicly stating he's gay, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that he thought it might help get another contract. It certainly crossed my mind. It's 2013, and if he doesn't get a contract, there will be those who will claim it's because he's openly gay, and it'll be big news, and not favorably. You can be sure the NBA, as an organization, is aware of that. It's been news that he is gay, it'll be news when he does, or doesn't, get a contract. Hopefully his contract for next year is decided based on his merits as a basketball player. But to think this couldn't possibly be a factor in him getting a contract is pretty na´ve, IMO, and I think it's na´ve to think it's not even possible that Collins considered that. It's possible.

mikecgrimes
05-07-2013, 06:29 AM
That says it all. Thanks for clearing up any need to reply going forward.

If my team was able to ge the real Santa Clause to show up every year, and then this year they were playing so bad that the real Santa refused to show up, I'd boo the concept of a fake Santa. Kids know the difference between the real Santa and a fake one. The kid pretendin go be Santa understood. If anyone ever boos the real Santa I'll beat them up. Santa's my hero.

Brock Beauchamp
05-07-2013, 07:25 AM
I think perhaps you're missing the point. A player at the point of his career where Collins is, is certainly not guaranteed a contract next year, it's an iffy thing. I don't know what his motivations were for publicly stating he's gay, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that he thought it might help get another contract. It certainly crossed my mind. It's 2013, and if he doesn't get a contract, there will be those who will claim it's because he's openly gay, and it'll be big news, and not favorably. You can be sure the NBA, as an organization, is aware of that. It's been news that he is gay, it'll be news when he does, or doesn't, get a contract. Hopefully his contract for next year is decided based on his merits as a basketball player. But to think this couldn't possibly be a factor in him getting a contract is pretty na´ve, IMO, and I think it's na´ve to think it's not even possible that Collins considered that. It's possible.

If you want to assume the negative of the situation, sure, I guess that's possible.

But what is more likely is that he's making a statement near the end of his career. He no longer has to fear facing hostile crowds for ten seasons and no longer has to fear teammates being unaccepting of his lifestyle. He's probably more comfortable with who he is as a person and his family is surely financially secure at this point. Doing something like this has to be scary as hell... I've known plenty of people who came out and it was terrifying for them and they didn't have to do it on the national stage and automatically become part of the civil rights movement because of it.

It makes all the sense in the world why he would do this as his career is nearing its end and I doubt it has much to do with "I want my contract extended" and more to do with "this is who I am as a person and after years of hiding, I want to be honest about it".

With Collins being a multi-millionaire with very little left to prove at this point, what do you think is the more likely scenario?

Brock Beauchamp
05-07-2013, 07:27 AM
Kids know the difference between the real Santa and a fake one.

4008

mikecgrimes
05-07-2013, 04:00 PM
With Collins being a multi-millionaire with very little left to prove at this point, what do you think is the more likely scenario?

Whats the definition of multi millionaire? because one more veteran minimum contract will probably increase his net worth by over 10% and thats if he's been somewhat smart with his money. The norm for pro athletes is to be broke by age 40. Property taxes alone will do it once the money stops coming in.

USAFChief
05-08-2013, 01:30 AM
If you want to assume the negative of the situation, sure, I guess that's possible. I'm making no more of an assumption than you are, all I said is it's possible. But if you get right down to it, if he "no longer has to fear hostile crowds (or)...teammates being unaccepting," he's more comfortable with who he is and financially secure, why would this be "scary as hell?"

PseudoSABR
05-08-2013, 02:12 AM
I think it was important that he was a free agent, so he didn't force his former clubhouse to accept him out of hand. Maybe he is too old, of no use, but that's hardly the common narrative. Even the cynical narrative points to the fact that he had a fiance (/hattip Howard Kurtz) rather than the unlikelihood of his continuing NBA career as the nefarious spearhead to a self-serving admission.

Beyond all the gloss and the political proselytizing, there seems to be a convincing admission, which many within the game have real respect, and so very few seem to dismiss as anything less than legitimate.

Brock Beauchamp
05-08-2013, 06:06 AM
But if you get right down to it, if he "no longer has to fear hostile crowds (or)...teammates being unaccepting," he's more comfortable with who he is and financially secure, why would this be "scary as hell?"

Seriously. You didn't really just say that.

How would doing something like this not be scary? Should he just ignore right-wing nuts who say every awful thing they can about him during the 24 hour news cycle? Should he just ignore the hate mail that he is surely receiving at this point? Going from "mostly ignored veteran" to "ambassador of gay rights in 2013" is terrifying no matter how you look at it.

Just because it's easier to do this at the end of his career does not mean it's easy for him to do it.

Brock Beauchamp
05-08-2013, 06:07 AM
Even the cynical narrative points to the fact that he had a fiance (/hattip Howard Kurtz) rather than the unlikelihood of his continuing NBA career as the nefarious spearhead to a self-serving admission.

I didn't realize he was engaged. In that case, I declare Occam's Razor.

USAFChief
05-08-2013, 10:27 AM
Seriously. You didn't really just say that.

How would doing something like this not be scary? Should he just ignore right-wing nuts who say every awful thing they can about him during the 24 hour news cycle? Should he just ignore the hate mail that he is surely receiving at this point? Going from "mostly ignored veteran" to "ambassador of gay rights in 2013" is terrifying no matter how you look at it.

Just because it's easier to do this at the end of his career does not mean it's easy for him to do it. Uh, yes? It's 2013. Rightfully so, gay rights have come a long way in a decade, and so has acceptance. There are hateful people in the world, some of whom will doubtless yell unkind things. Unpleasant, to say the least? Sure. "Terrifying?" I think that's overselling it by a large margin. Those people yelling those things are saying much more about themselves than about Collins, and I think a substantial majority of Americans would agree with that statement. Again, it's 2013. Times are a'changin.

biggentleben
05-08-2013, 06:54 PM
Uh, yes? It's 2013. Rightfully so, gay rights have come a long way in a decade, and so has acceptance. There are hateful people in the world, some of whom will doubtless yell unkind things. Unpleasant, to say the least? Sure. "Terrifying?" I think that's overselling it by a large margin. Those people yelling those things are saying much more about themselves than about Collins, and I think a substantial majority of Americans would agree with that statement. Again, it's 2013. Times are a'changin.

In the general populace, sure. In the confines of a locker room in a professional (or even collegiate) sport, not near as much. There's a reason that Brendan Ayanbadejo and Chris Kluwe get so much publicity. Not just because they talk about the issue, but because it's so incredibly rare that they speak out so strongly on the side that they do.

Shane Wahl
05-09-2013, 01:52 PM
This thread got a bit wild. Not sure how anyone could possibly see this as self-serving. The dude isn't some dumbass looking for fame. He realized that he needed to be a leader since--other than Griner--no one had yet stepped forward.

The "league" doesn't find roster spots for players. Individual teams do. Collins is likely a 12/13th player, going back and forth between being active and inactive. But he will likely be on someone's playoff roster next year as a third center. Clearly OKC could use someone like him right now against Memphis.

Shane Wahl
05-09-2013, 01:57 PM
Watch These Straight People Answer A Question Gay People Have Been Asked For Years (http://www.upworthy.com/watch-these-straight-people-answer-a-question-gay-people-have-been-asked-for-years-6)

Good video.

freshinthehouse
05-09-2013, 08:37 PM
I follow the Celtics, so I got to see Collins play a bit this season. Dude is no great shakes, but he is def going to be on a roster if he wants to. Plays good man to man on bigs, and he handled the Celtics team defense fairly well. By all account he was a good guy in the locker room as well. He'll end up on someone's bench.

mike wants wins
05-10-2013, 08:31 AM
If people don't think coming out is scary, read up on the losers in NY that beat the crap out of guys because they thought were gay after the Knicks game last week.......ya, being gay and out is no big deal at all.....

biggentleben
05-10-2013, 01:26 PM
I follow the Celtics, so I got to see Collins play a bit this season. Dude is no great shakes, but he is def going to be on a roster if he wants to. Plays good man to man on bigs, and he handled the Celtics team defense fairly well. By all account he was a good guy in the locker room as well. He'll end up on someone's bench.

Exactly. No one is assuming he'll have a prominent role for a team, but he's absolutely got a job on an NBA bench if he wants it at this point in his career, especially on defense.

The Greatest Poster Alive
05-11-2013, 02:16 PM
Uh, yes? It's 2013. Rightfully so, gay rights have come a long way in a decade, and so has acceptance. There are hateful people in the world, some of whom will doubtless yell unkind things. Unpleasant, to say the least? Sure. "Terrifying?" I think that's overselling it by a large margin. Those people yelling those things are saying much more about themselves than about Collins, and I think a substantial majority of Americans would agree with that statement. Again, it's 2013. Times are a'changin.

People still get killed for being gay. Having a crowd scream slurs me would scare the hell out of me if I was in a similar situation. In general people are OK... groups? Not so much.

mikecgrimes
05-13-2013, 05:27 PM
The "league" doesn't find roster spots for players. Individual teams do.

Just because something always has been true doesn't mean it will be true in this situation. I see it as very reasonable that every GM in the league will pass on him. As a borderline player who is capable of still playing some the league will do what is best for the league. If that means saying behind the scenes to a GM or two that they will pay his salary that is exactly what will happen. Two assumptions are in play, 1 every GM will pass on him, and 2 the league will want him on a roster enough to make that decision a no brainer for some GM.