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View Full Version : Spring Training - Game 29 - 3/29 - vs Pittsburgh



Seth Stohs
03-29-2012, 08:20 AM
Twins Lineup:

Ben Revere CF
Alexi Casilla 2B
Danny Valencia DH
Chris Parmelee 1B
Luke Hughes 3B
Angel Morales RF
Brian Dinkelman LF
Brian Dozier SS
Drew Butera C

SP: Matt Maloney

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 08:37 AM
Go Maloney! Been surprised by his success out of the pen. Hope it continues with this start.

Seth Stohs
03-29-2012, 08:46 AM
Mike Herman just tweeted me and said that, along with Morales, Daniel Santana, Anthony Slama, Luis Perdomo and Esmerling Vasquez are also in Twins uniform today.

J-Dog Dungan
03-29-2012, 09:33 AM
Are they getting a look at some more minor leaguers that they haven't gotten around to today?

Fanatic Jack
03-29-2012, 09:45 AM
Please somebody quote me on this "Matt Maloney and Jeff Gray will get lit up like a Christmas tree as soon as the regular season starts." The numbers they have put up in spring training mean absolutely NOTHING!!!! Before annointing these guys as the next great things ask yourself this question, Do you really trust either one of them pitching with the game on the line. Here is a scenario for you all. A 1-1 game in the 7th inning at Yankee Stadium with Cano/Texiera/Rodriguez coming to the plate. Does anybody really believe Maloney or Gray could get out of the inning without giving up the long ball. This season has disaster written all over it. Thanks again to the Pohlad family for cutting $15 million from payroll and going with the cheapest possible option.

Shane Wahl
03-29-2012, 09:59 AM
A 1-1 game in the 7th inning at Yankee Stadium with Cano/Texiera/Rodriguez coming to the plate. Does anybody really believe Maloney or Gray could get out of the inning without giving up the long ball. This season has disaster written all over it. Thanks again thanks to the Pohlad family for cutting $15 million from payroll and going with the cheapest possible option.

You're right to be skeptical, but who else deserves the shot at this point? Also, in that scenario, I would expect to see Duensing and Burton (or whoever) there.

Fanatic Jack
03-29-2012, 10:21 AM
Shanewahl,

Who else deserves a shot. How about the following;

1. Dan Wheeler

2. Todd Coffey

3. Michael Wuertz (Why not take a chance on him. Way better than Joel Zumaya and not even close to the injury history).

4. Octavio Doltel

5. Latroy Hawkins.


The list is like the energizer bunny and keeps going, and going, and going.....The difference is these guys all cost money that the Pohlads refuse to spend.

Cap'n Piranha
03-29-2012, 11:04 AM
Shanewahl,

Who else deserves a shot. How about the following;

1. Dan Wheeler

2. Todd Coffey

3. Michael Wuertz (Why not take a chance on him. Way better than Joel Zumaya and not even close to the injury history).

4. Octavio Doltel

5. Latroy Hawkins.


The list is like the energizer bunny and keeps going, and going, and going.....The difference is these guys all cost money that the Pohlads refuse to spend.

You're right, it's not like this team has the third-highest payroll in their history, or is upper half in the league in payroll. Obviously, the Pohlads are just cheap, cheap, cheap, what with giving 184 million to Mauer. Pocket change.

JakeE141414
03-29-2012, 11:06 AM
Sounds like Casilla is a scratch with tightness in the back of his right knee, Daniel Santana will start in his place. This will be a great opportunity for him. I'm looking forward to seeing how Morales and Santana do today.

Gernzy
03-29-2012, 11:08 AM
Jack, how do you know that any one of those people would do better then Gray or Maloney? You don't. You can say whatever you want about our bullpen is terrible, and I can say that it will be fine, but until the season actually starts, we don't know. Have some faith. Geez I swear all the negativity on this forum is getting old. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Just give it a chance before you start calling the season a disaster.

roger
03-29-2012, 11:17 AM
Thanks again to the Pohlad family for cutting $15 million from payroll and going with the cheapest possible option.

With league revenue sharing gone or mostly gone and this year's budget for signing draft picks up by $6 million or more, where is the money supposed to come from? Last year's budget had to be cut to take these two changes into consideration.

Cap'n Piranha
03-29-2012, 11:22 AM
Dan Wheeler--4.38 ERA last year, with a .4 WAR. Is 35, likely on the downside of his career.

Todd Coffey--3.62 ERA last year, with a .5 WAR. Gave up more than 3 walks/9 innings.

Michael Wuertz--6.68 ERA last year, with a -.5 WAR. Gave up nearly 7 walks/9 innings. The only thing he's better than Zumaya at is avoiding the DL, although with numbers like those, that's not exactly a good thing.

Octavio Dotel--4.08 ERA last year, with a .1 WAR. Gave up over 4 walks/9 innings, and is 38.

Latroy Hawkins--2.42 ERA last year (good, but a whole run below his xFIP, suggesting an outlier), with a .7 WAR. Given that he's 39, with quicly deteriorating k/9 numbers, not exactly a sure thing.

Matt Maloney--9.16 ERA last year (however his xFIP was 4.52), with a -.4 WAR. Is only 28, and was victimized mostly by the long ball. Now that he's in Target Field, and not the Great American Ballpark, that should help.

Jeff Gray--4.28 ERA last year, with a -.1 WAR. Did a good job of keeping the ball in the park, giving up less than 1 HR/9.

As we can see, Maloney and Gray are really not that far off in terms of WAR when it comes to some of these guys, but have something they don't--youth and upside. Add in the fact that we didn't have to spend as much on them (we're not the Yankees, and never will be--spending to spend is stupid), and I have no problem with these moves.

James
03-29-2012, 11:38 AM
Jack, you are forgetting that although the Pohlad family is rich, they are also running the team like a business. They don't just own the team just to say they own a sports team. If you owned the team, would you put all of your own money into every year, or would you do what the Pohlads do to keep the business sustainable? They already stretched the payroll out last year and look what happened there. So they cut the payroll to ONLY $100MM. I'm not saying that I agree with every decision the ownership and FO have made this year, but I am at least willing to understand them before I start ranting.

It is spring training. I know the numbers don't mean a whole lot yet. But let's see how they do for a while after the season starts before we start claiming the sky is falling, ok?

Seth Stohs
03-29-2012, 11:40 AM
UPDATED LINEUP:

Revere CF
Santana 2B
Valencia DH
Parmelee 1B
Hughes 3B
Morales RF
Dinkelman LF
Dozier SS
Butera C
Maloney P

Fanatic Jack
03-29-2012, 12:02 PM
Jeff Gray and Matt Maloney are a perfect example of the Twins philosphy. "Expect More, Pay Less."

rinkratfrits
03-29-2012, 12:10 PM
Jeff Gray and Matt Maloney are a perfect example of the Twins philosphy. "Expect More, Pay Less."


That'a almost as good as "Get to know 'em!"

Seth Stohs
03-29-2012, 12:18 PM
Twins take an early lead on an RBI by Danny Valencia. Ben Revere and Danny Santana walked to lead things off. Revere stole 2nd. He also gets credit for stealing third although based on the box score, it appears Santana was picked off of first and that's what caused the play to happen. Kind of funny!

woolhouse
03-29-2012, 12:24 PM
If Revere is going to stay on the 25-man roster, it's going to be because of his speed and glove. Stealing second and then third (regardless of how) is only helping his cause. And working a walk to lead-off is not a bad step either.

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 12:36 PM
Angel Morales walked

Dinkleman 2 run HR

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 12:47 PM
In Joe C's blog, updating before the game, says Parmelee has been the most pleasant surprise.

woolhouse
03-29-2012, 12:49 PM
There goes Maloney's perfect spring. Cut 'em! (Sarcasm font needed.)

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 12:50 PM
Maloney escapes 2 out/2 on with a K in the second. 3-1 Twins.

Shane Wahl
03-29-2012, 12:52 PM
Angel Morales walked

Dinkleman 2 run HR

Dink did what?

minn55441
03-29-2012, 01:01 PM
Do we create a bench spot for the guys? Do we send him down again?

He hit .300 last year at the major league level. He has hit over .300 so far this spring. Now he has a home run. Nobody talks about the guy, but he just keeps getting hits.

Screw the third catcher spot and bring Dinkleman with on opening day.

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:06 PM
1-2-3 third for Maloney

6-3/F7/F8

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:08 PM
Do we create a bench spot for the guys? Do we send him down again?

He hit .300 last year at the major league level. He has hit over .300 so far this spring. Now he has a home run. Nobody talks about the guy, but he just keeps getting hits.

Screw the third catcher spot and bring Dinkleman with on opening day.

leadoff single in the 4th. Machine.

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:11 PM
Stolen base for Dinkleman

2 run HR for Dozier

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:18 PM
Twins load bases in the 4th, Sac fly by Valencia makes it 6-1

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:21 PM
Hughes RBI single

7-1

How does he not play every day if he's hitting like this?

Highabove
03-29-2012, 01:22 PM
Last year, the Pohlads made 16 million dollars profit on the team and the year before they made 27million. Last year the Twins sold more tickets then 26 other teams. That is why some of the fans expect a little more this year.

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:26 PM
The Dinkleman Machine delivers off Daniel McCutchen

2 run single. 2nd hit for him this inning. 9-1

Twins subs and kids wiping out the Pirates. The Twins starters should try to live up to this :)

Gernzy
03-29-2012, 01:26 PM
Got to love the offense we'd had the last week.

James
03-29-2012, 01:31 PM
Last year, the Pohlads made 16 million dollars profit on the team and the year before they made 27million. Last year the Twins sold more tickets then 26 other teams. That is why some of the fans expect a little more this year.
I don't really think this is the place to have a payroll discussion, but since it has already started..

What you're saying is even though they made less profit last year, you think they should spend more? What about the fact that ticket sales were high because people expected them to be good at the beginning of the season, where as this year, no one expects them to be very good?

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:31 PM
10-1 on Dozier's rbi single. Butera ends the 7 run inning.

TwinVike61
03-29-2012, 01:36 PM
7 RBI for the D & D Boys!!

Cap'n Piranha
03-29-2012, 01:38 PM
I don't really think this is the place to have a payroll discussion, but since it has already started..

What you're saying is even though they made less profit last year, you think they should spend more? What about the fact that ticket sales were high because people expected them to be good at the beginning of the season, where as this year, no one expects them to be very good?

Couldn't agree more. I'm getting tired of the internet tough/smart guys who think they have a right to tell the Pohlads how to spend their money. If any of you guys want to see the Twins spend freely, my advice would be to figure out how to make a billion+ dollars, buy the Twins, and then go crazy.

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:41 PM
Burton gives up a run, leaves bases loaded.

3 IP for Maloney

ThatsRich
03-29-2012, 01:44 PM
Last year, the Pohlads made 16 million dollars profit on the team and the year before they made 27million.

I didn't know that MLB teams shared their books publicly. If this is from a source, can you include a link/reference? If this is a calculation/inference from payroll/ticket sales or other generally available figures, please show your work.

Fanatic Jack
03-29-2012, 01:48 PM
Cap'n Piranah,

I'm getting sick of all these people who just accept everything the Twins do and think it's the greatest thing since life's bread. Think for yourself. Oh and by the way what would happen if this was NY, LA. Boston, or Phily? Maybe you should befriend Dick Bremer because you think alike, you talk alike, ect, ect, ect.......

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:48 PM
11-1 on Parmelee rbi double, scoring Revere.

Highabove
03-29-2012, 01:49 PM
I was just responding to a past comment. The Twins play in a publicly financed Stadium, anybody has a right to comment. Below is the source.
The Business Of Baseball (http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/)

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:53 PM
Burton bounces back with flyout/groundout/flyout in 1-2-3 fifth.

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 01:57 PM
Angel Morales double. Kids having a fun day.

Cap'n Piranha
03-29-2012, 01:57 PM
Cap'n Piranah,

I'm getting sick of all these people who just accept everything the Twins do and think it's the greatest thing since life's bread. Think for yourself. Oh and by the way what would happen if this was NY, LA. Boston, or Phily? Maybe you should befriend Dick Bremer because you think alike, you talk alike, ect, ect, ect.......

I don't just accept everything the Twins do, I just wait for games that matter before making snap judgments, and try to have some sort of rationale behind my reasoning, rather than pure emotion. You also need to understand this is not NY, LA, Boston or Philly, and never will be. If you would like to see a franchise run like one of those franchises is, I would suggest you become a fan of one of those franchises, rather than vainly hoping that a Twins team with only a percentage of the resources will go toe-to-toe with the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels and Phillies of the world. You might also want to try being positive about things from time to time, it tends to make things a lot more fun, and life a lot more bearable.

SweetOne69
03-29-2012, 01:59 PM
Last year, the Pohlads made 16 million dollars profit on the team and the year before they made 27million. Last year the Twins sold more tickets then 26 other teams. That is why some of the fans expect a little more this year.

If you look at the notes in Forbes, that "profit" doesn't include taxes, interest, depreciation, or amortization. They have other expenses that come out of that "profit", all of it doesn't wind up in their pockets.

Cap'n Piranha
03-29-2012, 02:00 PM
I was just responding to a past comment. The Twins play in a publicly financed Stadium, anybody has a right to comment. Below is the source.
The Business Of Baseball (http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/)

In looking at the list, you failed to mention that the 16.6m number you referenced is not profit, merely operating income. That means that 16.6m number is BEFORE taxes, interest, depreciation and amortization. The Pohlads came nowhere close to pocketing 16m last year.

James
03-29-2012, 02:02 PM
I was just responding to a past comment. The Twins play in a publicly financed Stadium, anybody has a right to comment. Below is the source.
The Business Of Baseball (http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/)
Thanks for the article link. Pretty interesting stuff. Not exactly the point I think you were trying to make, but interesting to see some of the financial numbers.

J-Dog Dungan
03-29-2012, 02:04 PM
The Twins have had two seven-run innings two games in a row. Finally (even though it is ST) the offense revives. They have also had a nice homerun explosion, three by Morneau, 1 by Dink, 1 by Dozier, at least 1 by Parmelee, several by Hughes...power returning to MN with a little speed mixed in :)

TwinVike61
03-29-2012, 02:06 PM
I thought this "thread" was for us fans who are following today's game (which is going great if you haven't noticed because you're wringing your hands about the payroll or free agents we didn't sign).

J-Dog Dungan
03-29-2012, 02:06 PM
Revere also has 2 SB's with 2 BB's and a 1b...looks like he is getting on base perfectly fine in ST. Hoping it translates to a spot with the big club

J-Dog Dungan
03-29-2012, 02:08 PM
Take the payroll complaints and make your own thread, while those of us who are feeling confident about the team this year stay and talk about the Twins destroying the Pirates FTdubs

J-Dog Dungan
03-29-2012, 02:10 PM
Theoretically, if Waldrop is too injured to make the club out of ST, would the Twins have any problems taking Fien with them?

ThatsRich
03-29-2012, 02:11 PM
Thanks for providing the reference/link. I think it's always good practice to provide the source for data (of course, with exceptions for standard stats available from a variety of sources - like a batter's slash line). I think it adds immediate credibility to a post.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

James
03-29-2012, 02:13 PM
Theoretically, if Waldrop is too injured to make the club out of ST, would the Twins have any problems taking Fien with them?
He's not on the 40 man, but there are a few spots open now. Who knows? He seems to be making a case for that in this outing.

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 02:13 PM
Fien makes a last - ditch try for a bullpen spot.

1-2-3 sixth, F8/K/K

Highabove
03-29-2012, 02:16 PM
Correct, wrong thread, i'm out but I will leave behind another link.


https://www.teammarketing.com/public/files/2011_mlb_fci.pdf (https://www.teammarketing.com/public/files/2011_mlb_fci.pdf)

James
03-29-2012, 02:17 PM
Fien makes a last - ditch try for a bullpen spot.

1-2-3 sixth, F8/K/K
It might not be a "last ditch" any more. It looks like Waldrop is getting shut down for a while and won't make the team out of ST.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120329&content_id=27728884&notebook_id=27731884&vkey=notebook_min&c_id=min&partnerId=rss_min

J-Dog Dungan
03-29-2012, 02:18 PM
Not helping Butera's case: he is 1-3 with a BB and 4 left on base; not showing he can get hits when he needs to.

J-Dog Dungan
03-29-2012, 02:20 PM
I am thinking the last three pitchers for the Twins, Maloney, Burton, and Fien (pending the health of Waldrop) are probably the leaders in the bullpen fight

SweetOne69
03-29-2012, 02:24 PM
He's not on the 40 man, but there are a few spots open now. Who knows? He seems to be making a case for that in this outing.

One of those 2 open spots will go to Burton, the other is probably going to go to Burroughs, Hollimon or Dozier or whoever snags the last bench spot.

Gernzy
03-29-2012, 02:27 PM
At this point I'd be suprised if it's not Burroughs.

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 02:29 PM
2 innings for Fien, 1 run 3 k's

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 02:32 PM
Another hit for Angel Morales. Good for him.

James
03-29-2012, 02:32 PM
One of those 2 open spots will go to Burton, the other is probably going to go to Burroughs, Hollimon or Dozier or whoever snags the last bench spot.
I don't know why I forgot about those guys. I agree, one of those guys will probably get the second open spot on the 40 man.

James
03-29-2012, 02:34 PM
Go Bull Dozier! And good for Dinkleman going from 1st to 3rd.

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 02:38 PM
And Dru ends the inning.

Fanatic Jack
03-29-2012, 02:45 PM
Alex Burnett continues to get killed, this time by the Pirates C roster. But hey let's all remember he has great stuff.

Gernzy
03-29-2012, 02:46 PM
I don't think anyone expects Burnett to make the team at this point.

Fanatic Jack
03-29-2012, 02:49 PM
Gernzy,

Please explain to me why Burnett is still in spring training?

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 02:50 PM
Gernzy,

Please explain to me why Burnett is still in spring training?

They need warm bodies, with marquis gone and baker iffy.

Gernzy
03-29-2012, 02:56 PM
What Mr. Ed said. Personally I would love for them to send him down. With injures though...he might stick around.

Mr. Ed
03-29-2012, 03:12 PM
Esmerling Vasquez gives up 2 runs, 11-6 final. Ugly in the bullpen again.

Seth Stohs
03-29-2012, 03:16 PM
Angel Morales - 2-3, 2 BB, 2B
Danny Santana - 2-5, BB, 2B
Brian Dozier - 3-5, HR (2)
Brian Dinkelman - 3-4, BB, HR (1), SB

Fun times!!

Steve Lein
03-29-2012, 03:27 PM
Awesome to see the Prospect guys get some MLB action and have a good day!

peterb18
03-29-2012, 05:46 PM
I agree with Fanatic Jack on his philosophy toward the Twins. The cutting of the payroll in the face of a new stadium, revenues among the highest in the league and tearing apart your team the last two years-- Look at what happened in the last two seasons: completely decimating the relief corp. Why such a wholesale change at one time? This season--not signing the core of your power base--Cuddyer, Kubel, Thome, not signing an elite reliever(Joe Nathan). What does this tell the fans and the team? This team is not built to last a long season. The only way we can have success is to play above ability--which is rare!
This ownership two years ago was considered the richest in baseball--Forbes Mag. The strength of this organization in in the lower minors. If so, then what should the ownership do until this group of players are ready for the majors? Sign quality free agents until this group is ready. But, this takes the will of the ownership. Now if was like Pittsburg, I would say ok--but, this franchise has the assets, but not the will. This is all on the Pohlads. Ryan and Gardenhire know what they are dealing with!