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gunnarthor
04-12-2013, 08:21 AM
Dodgers' Zack Greinke fractures collarbone in fracas at Petco Park | MLB.com: News (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130412&content_id=44551080&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

Quinten showing a little roid rage, perhaps? :)

jay
04-12-2013, 08:54 AM
It'll be interesting to see what kind of a suspension Quentin ends up with. Does the injury become an aggravating factor in determining the length?

Mostly, I think I'm upset about it because Greinke is on my fantasy squad... :o

mike wants wins
04-12-2013, 09:07 AM
He will get the max the CBA allows. Immaturity runs rampant in sports (and the world). Really, there is no reason for violence here.

IdahoPilgrim
04-12-2013, 10:14 AM
It'll be interesting to see what kind of a suspension Quentin ends up with. Does the injury become an aggravating factor in determining the length?

Mostly, I think I'm upset about it because Greinke is on my fantasy squad... :o

Likewise.

kab21
04-12-2013, 11:02 AM
Dodgers' Zack Greinke fractures collarbone in fracas at Petco Park | MLB.com: News (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130412&content_id=44551080&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

Quinten showing a little roid rage, perhaps? :)

Was Greinke also showing roid rage by dropping his shoulder? What about Kemp who was getting into with Quentin after the game?

Apparently these two have a history and Greinke might have said something after hitting him. Quentin is in the wrong for charging the mound but Greinke aggravated things and took him on ala Nolan Ryan.

I'm a big Greinke fan but the Dodgers have joined the Yankees as teams I want to see fail.

Mr. Brooks
04-12-2013, 11:05 AM
Was Greinke also showing roid rage by dropping his shoulder? What about Kemp who was getting into with Quentin after the game?

Apparently these two have a history and Greinke might have said something after hitting him. Quentin is in the wrong for charging the mound but Greinke aggravated things and took him on ala Nolan Ryan.

I'm a big Greinke fan but the Dodgers have joined the Yankees as teams I want to see fail.

LOL are you joking!!!!
Does Grienke not have a right to defend himself when someone charges the mound?
If anything, I'd say Grienke was about as non aggressive as you could possibly expect in this situation by just lowering his shoulder in a defensive position, and not throwing a punch.
The charger is the active aggressor here, not the chargee.
What should Grienke have done? Turn tail and run screaming like a little girl into centerfield?

Zyax
04-12-2013, 11:14 AM
What should Grienke have done? Turn tail and run screaming like a little girl into centerfield?

This mental image literally caused me to spit coffee on to my computer laughing. So. Thanks for that.

kab21
04-12-2013, 11:20 AM
Apparently Greinke swore at him and didn't attempt to avoid contact at all. As a matter of fact he went towards Quentin. And then both Greinke and the catcher are on top of Quentin punching him. This is what Quentin deserved but Greinke did nothing to avoid the situation and took it to Quentin. Injuries happen in these situations.

ChiTownTwinsFan
04-12-2013, 11:22 AM
Was Greinke also showing roid rage by dropping his shoulder? What about Kemp who was getting into with Quentin after the game?

Apparently these two have a history and Greinke might have said something after hitting him. Quentin is in the wrong for charging the mound but Greinke aggravated things and took him on ala Nolan Ryan.

I'm a big Greinke fan but the Dodgers have joined the Yankees as teams I want to see fail.

History or not, words that were said or not, you aren't allowed to charge the mound. Quentin will get the max for that. If Quentin wants to say something was said to him first, then that just becomes a child's game of 'He started it.' It's a stupid defense, imo. You charge the mound, you face the consequences, no matter what the history or verbiage is between them.

Mr. Brooks
04-12-2013, 11:27 AM
Apparently Greinke swore at him and didn't attempt to avoid contact at all. As a matter of fact he went towards Quentin. And then both Greinke and the catcher are on top of Quentin punching him. This is what Quentin deserved but Greinke did nothing to avoid the situation and took it to Quentin. Injuries happen in these situations.

I think you might want to watch the video again.
Grienke didn't start towards Quentin until Quentin dropped his bat and started running toward the mound.

Honestly, I really don't understand how you expect Grienke to handle this situation.
You shouldnt be required (or expected) to "avoid contact", once someone else initiates the aggressive move towards you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=J2FoxcPX6EE#!

kab21
04-12-2013, 11:28 AM
I don't have any problem with Quentin getting a long suspension or getting pummeled. I disagree with the woe is Greinke because he got hurt. he has the right to defend (doesn't have to) the mound but he was part of a fight. Getting injured is what happens in fights.

ashburyjohn
04-12-2013, 11:43 AM
So much for the conventional wisdom, "nobody gets hurt in a baseball fight".

Fatt Crapps
04-12-2013, 11:47 AM
Quentin is a punk. He gets beaned all the time because he stands on top of the freakin plate (He has the highest HBP %...in the history of the game!!). It was a 3-2 pitch in a 1 run game, obviously wasn't intentional.

Fatt Crapps
04-12-2013, 12:00 PM
Did you ever see this fine gent ever charge the mound?

3736

Badsmerf
04-12-2013, 12:13 PM
Quentin is a little bitch. Too bad Greinke got hurt. I have to wonder in this scenario if the Dodgers could win a lawsuit against Quentin? I don't know the legal system well enough, but if they could prove he was directly responsible for a loss in capital for assault, they might win. Just throwing it out there.

kab21
04-12-2013, 12:23 PM
Honestly, I really don't understand how you expect Grienke to handle this situation.
You shouldnt be required (or expected) to "avoid contact", once someone else initiates the aggressive move towards you.


He's a 150M #2 pitcher that is extremely important to his team. All he needs to do is side step Quentin when he charges and his catcher pummels Quentin. Instead he met Quentin's charge lowering his shoulder despite giving up 50 lbs and momentum to him. He's not wrong in his actions but people get injured when they get into fights. That's how life works and I don't feel sorry for him.

jay
04-12-2013, 01:17 PM
All he needs to do is side step Quentin when he charges and his catcher pummels Quentin. Instead he met Quentin's charge lowering his shoulder despite giving up 50 lbs and momentum to him.

So he wasn't wrong in his actions, but it's his fault he got injured because he took the wrong physical approach?

I don't blame him for defending his mound one bit and I'm not sure we can expect him to be trained on the proper approach to a charging bull.

SweetOne69
04-12-2013, 01:23 PM
Back when Quentin was with the White Sox, didn't he get pissed off after striking out and broke his own wrist by slamming it into the bat?

Willihammer
04-12-2013, 01:41 PM
I heard he took a bite out of the handle then spat it at the opposing bat boy

nokomismod
04-12-2013, 01:44 PM
Quentin was a perfect fit for the Tighty Whiteys.

Mr. Brooks
04-12-2013, 03:48 PM
He's a 150M #2 pitcher that is extremely important to his team. All he needs to do is side step Quentin when he charges and his catcher pummels Quentin. Instead he met Quentin's charge lowering his shoulder despite giving up 50 lbs and momentum to him. He's not wrong in his actions but people get injured when they get into fights. That's how life works and I don't feel sorry for him.

When did I say I feel sorry for him?
Something really, really, really, terrible would have to happen to a guy guaranteed over 100 million dollars for me to ever feel bad or sorry for them.
I'm just saying that Quentin is at fault, 100%.

Putting any of the blame on Grienke is a little like saying, "well its not her fault, but come on look at that skirt she was wearing..."

ashburyjohn
04-12-2013, 03:48 PM
So he wasn't wrong in his actions, but it's his fault he got injured because he took the wrong physical approach?

What's worse, he was on the horns of a dilemma. I don't like the unwritten rule, or whatever it is, that someone backing off in a situation is labelled a pussy, but it's there, and while Quentin had about 3 seconds to consider his action after getting hit, and could have backed off at the last moment even then, Greinke had about half a second to decide what to do once the guy was coming at him, and once committed to defending himself there was no backing away.

I'm not the biggest Greinke fan, but I'd want some further information to warrant believing this was even 50/50 his own fault after the batter leaned into an inside pitch.

/ edit: heh, Mr. B and I chose different phrasings to say the same thing at the same posting time.

ChiTownTwinsFan
04-12-2013, 03:58 PM
He's a 150M #2 pitcher that is extremely important to his team. All he needs to do is side step Quentin when he charges and his catcher pummels Quentin. Instead he met Quentin's charge lowering his shoulder despite giving up 50 lbs and momentum to him. He's not wrong in his actions but people get injured when they get into fights. That's how life works and I don't feel sorry for him.

It's not really about feeling sorry for Greinke, imo, but whether or not he tries to avoid it is just not the point, again imo. Quentin charged the mound and by doing so set things in motion physically. There's no way in knowing 'if' Greinke sidesteps him there'd be a different outcome. That doesn't matter as that's not what happened. Quentin was the wrong party here and I hope he pays the consequences but good.

jokin
04-12-2013, 05:37 PM
Quentin is a punk. He gets beaned all the time because he stands on top of the freakin plate (He has the highest HBP %...in the history of the game!!). It was a 3-2 pitch in a 1 run game, obviously wasn't intentional.


Do you think Kemp's near-beaning was intentional?

notoriousgod71
04-12-2013, 06:07 PM
Didn't Greinke only get injured when his own catcher fell on top of him?

Both Quentin and Greinke are idiots, but to me the bigger idiots are the ones calling for Quentin to be suspended for as long as Greinke is injured (Mattingly). It is a horrible precedent to set. There have been baseball brawls as long as there's been baseball and this was rather tame. I don't see anyone calling for Johnny Cueto to be out of baseball for life because the concussion he gave LaRue ended his season.

Thrylos
04-12-2013, 06:14 PM
I don't care for either of those 2 (an ex-Royal and an ex-Sux). But here is what Jayson Stark tweeted earlier:

Since '08 Greinke has hit Quentin 3 times in 31 PA. Greinke against all other hitters: 19 HBPs in 4,279 PA

Too much smoke for there not to be fire.

Throwing at batters is part of the game and so are the consequences. They both should be suspended as well as others who participated on the brawl.

ashburyjohn
04-12-2013, 07:20 PM
the bigger idiots are the ones calling for Quentin to be suspended for as long as Greinke is injured (Mattingly). It is a horrible precedent to set.

This. It practically begs for hockey-style goons whose only role is to eliminate the other team's best player through tit-for-tat penalties.

jm3319
04-12-2013, 08:09 PM
I don't care for either of those 2 (an ex-Royal and an ex-Sux). But here is what Jayson Stark tweeted earlier:


Too much smoke for there not to be fire.

Throwing at batters is part of the game and so are the consequences. They both should be suspended as well as others who participated on the brawl.


Umm why should Grienke be suspended? Or are you saying every pitcher should be suspended every time they hit a batter? It's a 3-2 pitch in a 1-0 ball game.... this wasn't an 0-0 pitch as his head, or a 3-0 pitch. Maybe one or two of his previous plunks on Quentin were intentional, but there's no way this one was. If Quentin had half a brain and an ounce of class and just walked to first base to try to help his team win the game, there wouldn't have been an issue.

Also, it looked like most everyone else was just breaking up the brawl.

USAFChief
04-12-2013, 08:39 PM
Quentin is a punk. He gets beaned all the time because he stands on top of the freakin plate (He has the highest HBP %...in the history of the game!!). It was a 3-2 pitch in a 1 run game, obviously wasn't intentional.
Absolutely correct. I was a scorekeeper when he was in AAA (Tucson) and the other scorer and I had a standing over/under bet: number of Quenin HBP per game = .5. In addition to standing on top of the plate, he literally makes zero attempt to avoid a pitch, and actually moves into anything inside, on purpose. He used to use the ol' "check swing, get hit on the forearm" once per series.

TheLeviathan
04-12-2013, 08:55 PM
Quite frankly, that pitch was avoidable by Quentin. It wasn't SO far inside he couldn't have spun away. That roided-up asshat has been sitting on homeplate for years and bitching about getting hit. Grienke probably tried to get too macho once he saw Quentin crying about it at first but that was about as clear a situation as possible that he wasn't trying to hit him.

That pitch, to 99% of the hitters in the league is a brush back, ball four, with the guy going "whoa" that it was rising. Only Quentin's pansy-ass would get hit there because that's his game. Sorry, but in baseball Quentin is easily in my bottom five of players I can't stand.

kab21
04-12-2013, 10:03 PM
When did I say I feel sorry for him?
Something really, really, really, terrible would have to happen to a guy guaranteed over 100 million dollars for me to ever feel bad or sorry for them.
I'm just saying that Quentin is at fault, 100%.

Putting any of the blame on Grienke is a little like saying, "well its not her fault, but come on look at that skirt she was wearing..."

Your comparison is truly awful.

Greinke taunted him and wanted to fight. Quentin was not justified at all to start a fight but Greinke was a willing participant and got his shots in. All he needed to do was sidestep the out of control Quentin who would have been pounded by Greinke's teammates. I understand there is male need to engage someone like Quentin but he should also realize how important he is to his team.

biggentleben
04-12-2013, 11:07 PM
Putting any of the blame on Grienke is a little like saying, "well its not her fault, but come on look at that skirt she was wearing..."

The fact that you just used a rape analogy to attempt to support your point says so much. Unbelievable.

Mr. Brooks
04-14-2013, 11:10 AM
The fact that you just used a rape analogy to attempt to support your point says so much. Unbelievable.

I meant the blaming the victim aspect of it. Not the actual act itself. If you can't understand that is what I meant by it, then you are just trying to be outraged.

TheLeviathan
04-14-2013, 12:59 PM
Seeing this bumped only reminds me how much I dislike Quentin. I hope all baseball pitchers, for the week he comes back, throw at his earhole until he gets the point. Back off the plate - or at least don't cry about it when you spin into inside pitches all the time.

Mr. Brooks
04-14-2013, 01:03 PM
I don't care for either of those 2 (an ex-Royal and an ex-Sux). But here is what Jayson Stark tweeted earlier:


Too much smoke for there not to be fire.

Throwing at batters is part of the game and so are the consequences. They both should be suspended as well as others who participated on the brawl.

Quentin gets HBP at a historically high rate. Of course Grienke has a higher HBP rate against him than he does overall!
There is no smoke. I'm sure if you looked at every pitcher who has faced Quentin a lot (they were in same division), they have higher HBP rates against Quentin than they do overall. The guy stands right on top of the plate.

biggentleben
04-14-2013, 11:20 PM
I meant the blaming the victim aspect of it. Not the actual act itself. If you can't understand that is what I meant by it, then you are just trying to be outraged.

And if you cannot see the horrible connection you attempted to make, you truly may be worthy of outrage. As it stands, it's just logged for future reference as argument banter to refer to in future discussions. Along the lines of Mauer/Poser is equal to Lew Ford/Babe Ruth.

snepp
04-14-2013, 11:49 PM
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQM_VuI2pM-CTgUeibGdLC5cKMewV7_ufP01PRYZy4Xj8cckxghsA (http://www.google.com/imgres?client=firefox-a&hs=XRx&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1920&bih=919&tbm=isch&tbnid=wuug3d6aleAoTM:&imgrefurl=http://presentoutlook.com/dont-make-a-mountain-out-of-a-molehill/&docid=TrjbT_ZSHEh-7M&imgurl=http://presentoutlook.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/molehill-mountain.jpg&w=599&h=239&ei=xoZrUfGrHoS1qgHnzIDYCA&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:30,s:0,i:225&iact=rc&dur=4107&page=1&tbnh=142&tbnw=348&start=0&ndsp=32&tx=189&ty=66)