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Musk21
03-25-2013, 11:49 AM
Tubby Smith out at Minnesota - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21948116/tubby-smith-out-at-minnesota)

Shaka Smart? Flip? Who's it going to be?

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-25-2013, 12:25 PM
That would be a terrible move for Shaka to make.

USAFChief
03-25-2013, 01:04 PM
Not surprising to see Tubby fired. Sad, but not surprising, and a move that had to be made, IMO. Personally, if I saw one more botched inbounds play, or watched another Rodney Williams stand on the wing, 30 ft from the basket, with his feet glued to the floor looking to get rid of the ball because he's terrified of making a mistake, I might have poked my eyes out. I will say, it seems like the U could have handled this better...I realize this is a twitter world we live in, but jeez, couldn't you have kept this under wraps until you've told the man face to face?

spycake
03-25-2013, 01:51 PM
So, with a year left on Glen Mason's contract, the Gophers gave him a four-year extension. And then fired him after that year anyway.

With two years left on Tim Brewster's contract, they gave him a two-year extension (although they lowered the buyout). Then they fired him 7 games later.

With two years left on Tubby Smith's contract, they gave him a three-year extension, including a raise and an increased buyout amount. Then they fired him after the next season.

(I think they extended Dan Monson at some point too -- they had to pay him a considerable buyout upon dismissal.)

At least they had the good sense to give Jerry Kill an ~8 year contract, to delay the inevitable extend-then-fire process.

luke829
03-25-2013, 03:47 PM
Flip would be the obvious choice (as well as the one that would create the most media frenzy). Thing is, would he be any better than Tubby in the long run?

TheLeviathan
03-25-2013, 05:43 PM
Good post about the extensions spy, that is maybe the most ridiculous angle of this.

drjim
03-25-2013, 05:43 PM
With two years left on Tubby Smith's contract, they gave him a three-year extension, including a raise and an increased buyout amount. Then they fired him after the next season.

This is actually not completely true. The extension Tubby signed gave him more incentive pay (for each round of the NCAA that he reached), but it dropped his buyout from $3m to $2.5m.

It was time for him to go. Good man and the program is in better shape than we he came six years ago, but it was stagnant at best and probably headed for a slide in the next couple of years. Now we get to see what Teague is made of.

spycake
03-25-2013, 07:18 PM
This is actually not completely true. The extension Tubby signed gave him more incentive pay (for each round of the NCAA that he reached), but it dropped his buyout from $3m to $2.5m.
What's your source on that? Everything I read says Tubby's extension increased the buyout from $1.5 to $2.5 mil:

Tubby Smith contract extension with Gophers includes $2.5M buyout max - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8229928/tubby-smith-contract-extension-gophers-includes-25m-buyout-max)

Tubby Smith extension details: Salary goes up, buyout goes up, will review at the end of season. | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/164907176.html)

drjim
03-25-2013, 07:46 PM
What's your source on that? Everything I read says Tubby's extension increased the buyout from $1.5 to $2.5 mil:

Tubby Smith contract extension with Gophers includes $2.5M buyout max - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8229928/tubby-smith-contract-extension-gophers-includes-25m-buyout-max)

Tubby Smith extension details: Salary goes up, buyout goes up, will review at the end of season. | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/164907176.html)

I got it off the radio but I won't argue with your links. That is a fiasco.

TheLeviathan
03-25-2013, 08:15 PM
Jesus....I didn't think it was that bad. What did Tubby have on the gopher administration? Anything short of nude photos just wouldn't explain that kind of extortion.

twinsnorth49
03-25-2013, 08:21 PM
Definitely time for Tubby to go, his recruiting has always been spotty at best but in his defense, it's going to continue to be a tough grind until a practice facility gets built for his successor.

The team underachieved last year and particularly this year with Mbakwe back for a 6th year. No leadership, lack of discipline on the court, terrible use of his bench for most of the season and seemingly a real inability to get his teams to adjust when faced with difficult situations.

twinsnorth49
03-25-2013, 08:30 PM
Jesus....I didn't think it was that bad. What did Tubby have on the gopher administration? Anything short of nude photos just wouldn't explain that kind of extortion.

No extortion necessary, just Joel Maturi as an AD, one of many financial fiascos.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-26-2013, 08:32 AM
You should back up a dump truck full of cash to Shaka Smart's house.

ChiTownTwinsFan
03-26-2013, 08:35 AM
Not to derail this thread but with the U of MN out, anyone pulling for any particular team? It was exciting to be in Ft. Myers and have the FGCU Eagles do so amazing ... what a fun team to watch!

spycake
03-26-2013, 08:39 AM
No extortion necessary, just Joel Maturi as an AD, one of many financial fiascos.
Actually, this extension was Norwood Teague's doing. (Although I suspect it was partially influenced by the AD change, with the new AD using the extension as a vote of confidence for Tubby. Not sure what good a vote of confidence is when you don't have confidence, though.)

Going into the last year of a coach's contract has been off-limits for awhile now -- remember the kerfuffle around Glen Mason with one year to go? And that was for a non-elite coach/program. The coach and their staff always need security beyond one year.

What's interesting is that anticipating the above effect, going into the last two years of a coach's contract is now almost unthinkable. Brewster got a token extension at that point, and Tubby got his big extension with two years left too.

I expect that any day now, Jerry Kill will require an extension beyond the five years remaining on his deal.

biggentleben
03-26-2013, 09:16 AM
I expect that any day now, Jerry Kill will require an extension beyond the five years remaining on his deal.

And he would deserve every single penny of it.

Musk21
03-26-2013, 11:07 AM
And he would deserve every single penny of it.

For what? 6-7 (2-6 in the Big Ten) and an appearance in the Meineke Car Care Bowl?

Fatt Crapps
03-26-2013, 11:55 AM
I just hope one day they can be on the same level as the mighty powerhouse that is North Carolina Football.

biggentleben
03-26-2013, 01:25 PM
For what? 6-7 (2-6 in the Big Ten) and an appearance in the Meineke Car Care Bowl?

He's still using Brewster players. MarQueis Gray was Brewster's big time recruit in his time.

For what Kill has brought to the program, I'll take last season as he's continuing to build the team. I am extremely happy with what he's brought to the program, especially in the crappy shape it was left.

Musk21
03-26-2013, 01:49 PM
He's still using Brewster players. MarQueis Gray was Brewster's big time recruit in his time.

For what Kill has brought to the program, I'll take last season as he's continuing to build the team. I am extremely happy with what he's brought to the program, especially in the crappy shape it was left.

Maybe so, but it seems to be in the same position it was in '08 and '09. After a disastrous '07 under Brewster using Mason's players, the Gophers were 7-6 (3-5) and 6-7 (3-5) in '08 & '09 with berths in the Insight Bowl.

Hope you're right...But when your only Big Ten wins are against Purdue and Illinois and your 2013 recruiting class ranks last for the 2nd straight year, color me unimpressed.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-26-2013, 01:53 PM
Jerry Kill LOL

YourHouseIsMyHouse
03-26-2013, 02:07 PM
I would say Flip or Howland. I think Howland would be my preference.

kab21
03-26-2013, 07:52 PM
He's still using Brewster players. MarQueis Gray was Brewster's big time recruit in his time.

For what Kill has brought to the program, I'll take last season as he's continuing to build the team. I am extremely happy with what he's brought to the program, especially in the crappy shape it was left.

I'm pretty sure that this is the story for every coach at UM. Initial excitement and then we just need to wait for him to have his own recruits playing.

biggentleben
03-26-2013, 08:42 PM
I'm pretty sure that this is the story for every coach at UM. Initial excitement and then we just need to wait for him to have his own recruits playing.

I was excited initially about Brewster's recruiting acumen, but his coaching never took hold. Coach Mason always seemed to have a chip on his shoulder and under-recruited to show how great a coach he was. Coach Wacker was solid, but seemed to lack that killer instinct. Time will show once Kill has the players to fit his system, but he is incredibly well-thought-of within national circles. I was told by one former Ohio State player that he would have been a big fan of Kill being hired there, which says volumes about his respect in the game.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-26-2013, 09:56 PM
Kill sucks and will never lead them to more then 7 or 8 win years.

biggentleben
03-27-2013, 10:11 AM
Kill sucks and will never lead them to more then 7 or 8 win years.

Duly noted. Thank you for your well thought-out and pointed argument.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-27-2013, 11:13 AM
Duly noted. Thank you for your well thought-out and pointed argument.

Feel free to bump it the year the Gophers finally become relevant in college football.

Mr. Brooks
03-27-2013, 08:06 PM
I was excited about Kill, but he lost me with this idea that scheduling 4 cupcakes so that you only need 2 big ten wins to make a meaningless bowl game is somehow an achievement.
It makes me question how high he's really aiming. Paying UNC to go away is an embarrassment, IMO. They are not even a very good football program, they are a basketball school. I'm not sure I wan't a head coach that is so afraid to play UNC, that he'd rather pay money to NOT play them.
I'm still going to give him a chance, and I hope he's on to something, rather than ON something, but I'm no longer excited about it like I was when he was hired.

biggentleben
03-27-2013, 08:43 PM
I was excited about Kill, but he lost me with this idea that scheduling 4 cupcakes so that you only need 2 big ten wins to make a meaningless bowl game is somehow an achievement.
It makes me question how high he's really aiming. Paying UNC to go away is an embarrassment, IMO. They are not even a very good football program, they are a basketball school. I'm not sure I wan't a head coach that is so afraid to play UNC, that he'd rather pay money to NOT play them.
I'm still going to give him a chance, and I hope he's on to something, rather than ON something, but I'm no longer excited about it like I was when he was hired.

Except that it had nothing to do with UNC. It had to do with scheduling mid-major schools until he felt he had time to build the program to a time of all BCS pre-conference games. I honestly don't have a big problem with that. The person he is and the accountability and attitude he's brought to the program is all I can ask from a coach. I played under a coach way too worried about public perception, and that's when you stop focusing your attention where it should always be - on the field.

Mr. Brooks
03-27-2013, 09:14 PM
Except that it had nothing to do with UNC. It had to do with scheduling mid-major schools until he felt he had time to build the program to a time of all BCS pre-conference games. I honestly don't have a big problem with that. The person he is and the accountability and attitude he's brought to the program is all I can ask from a coach. I played under a coach way too worried about public perception, and that's when you stop focusing your attention where it should always be - on the field.

But why?
What is the harm in playing UNC? You might lose? Why is he so afraid to lose a non conference game?
There is only one answer to that, its that he thinks going 2-6 in the Big 10 and "earning" a meaningless bowl bid is some kind of accomplishment. It's not. It's an embarrassment to college football, IMO, that a team can go 2-6 in their conference and make a bowl game.

And being a good guy, and being accountable and all that is great, but none of that matters if you don't win.
He's not a volunteer coach of a PeeWee team, he's being paid millions of dollars.

Again, I'm going to give him his fair chance. But so far, I've yet to talk to anyone who can give me a single convincing MEASURABLE reason why he's doing a good job.
I'm not talking about his attitude, or his accountability or anything like that. I'm talking about something on the field, or on the recruiting trail.
I understand that rating recruits is a murky science at best, but seeing the worst ranked recruiting class back to back years is worrisome.

biggentleben
03-28-2013, 05:12 AM
There is only one answer to that, its that he thinks going 2-6 in the Big 10 and "earning" a meaningless bowl bid is some kind of accomplishment.

Complete bull. Kill has been advocating for a playoff system for years, and he has said that he will not measure the team by bowl appearances or even bowl victories, so that assumption is way, way off.

Northern Illinois never got the 5-star recruit either, but he built a program there that won against BCS teams year-in and year-out, including demolishing the Brewster team laden with two top-5 Big Ten recruiting classes.

Mr. Brooks
03-28-2013, 07:20 AM
Complete bull. Kill has been advocating for a playoff system for years, and he has said that he will not measure the team by bowl appearances or even bowl victories, so that assumption is way, way off.

Northern Illinois never got the 5-star recruit either, but he built a program there that won against BCS teams year-in and year-out, including demolishing the Brewster team laden with two top-5 Big Ten recruiting classes.

Then what is the reason?
If you are going to dismiss my reason as "bull", then at least give your reason.
What would be the reason to avoid BSC competition in the non conference schedule?

spycake
03-28-2013, 12:09 PM
including demolishing the Brewster team laden with two top-5 Big Ten recruiting classes.
Beating the Gophers, particularly the Brewster Gophers, should not be listed as a great achievement. I fear that was no small part of how Kill got the job here, not unlike Dan Monson and Gonzaga bouncing the Gophers from the 1999 NCAA tournament.

Although that pattern would suggest that Tubby's replacement might be... Tim Miles from Nebraska? Although he was just hired a year ago...

mike wants wins
03-28-2013, 03:45 PM
Cancelling the UNC series, and paying out money to do so, was sad and embarassing, imo. It's not like they are good or anything.....tubby had to go. Any random HS coach could finish in the bottom three in the conference every year.

The extensions (including the secret one to Borden right before he left) from the last AD were also embarrassing. How about Kill win some games before he gets extended beyond th 5 years still on his deal?

biggentleben
03-28-2013, 04:18 PM
Then what is the reason?
If you are going to dismiss my reason as "bull", then at least give your reason.
What would be the reason to avoid BSC competition in the non conference schedule?

To build the team through success in those non-conference games. Yes, he wanted wins in those games, but the goal of that would not be a bowl game. It would be to get the team ready to win.

Mr. Brooks
03-28-2013, 04:24 PM
To build the team through success in those non-conference games. Yes, he wanted wins in those games, but the goal of that would not be a bowl game. It would be to get the team ready to win.

How does letting your team beat up on a bunch of scrubs get them ready to win?
That is like saying you should train a pro boxer by bringing him to a nursing home and letting him beat up elderly women.
You get better by playing TOUGHER competition, not by playing easier competition. You have it backwards, IMO.

biggentleben
03-29-2013, 07:18 AM
How does letting your team beat up on a bunch of scrubs get them ready to win?
That is like saying you should train a pro boxer by bringing him to a nursing home and letting him beat up elderly women.
You get better by playing TOUGHER competition, not by playing easier competition. You have it backwards, IMO.

You used a perfect analogy - boxers build up slowly as they establish themselves against better and better competition. You don't walk into the early 90s boxing scene and immediately start battling Tyson and Holyfield. You have to earn your way up, bout by bout, until you've shown yourself worthy of the established top competition.

Mr. Brooks
03-29-2013, 08:20 AM
You used a perfect analogy - boxers build up slowly as they establish themselves against better and better competition. You don't walk into the early 90s boxing scene and immediately start battling Tyson and Holyfield. You have to earn your way up, bout by bout, until you've shown yourself worthy of the established top competition.

Uh yeah, but there is a threshold where the opponent is SO weak that it does you no good to beat up on them.
UNC is hardly Holyfield or Tyson.
If you can't play a competitive game against UNC, you have no business coaching a Big Ten football team.

Fatt Crapps
03-29-2013, 10:21 AM
If you can't play a competitive game against UNC, you have no business coaching a Big Ten football team.

Exactly. And for $800,000?? I wish that money could be put towards something useful, like my lady's $50,000 student loan debt.

biggentleben
03-29-2013, 11:28 AM
Uh yeah, but there is a threshold where the opponent is SO weak that it does you no good to beat up on them.
UNC is hardly Holyfield or Tyson.
If you can't play a competitive game against UNC, you have no business coaching a Big Ten football team.

You are entitled to your opinion. It's not as if they're scheduling Bemidji State or something, Kill has expressed a desire not to play a single FCS school if possible, but some local schools (North Dakota State, South Dakota State) are scheduled for local draw as much as anything. They're scheduling FBS schools that have every opportunity to play in a BCS bowl game. Same level of competition, but just not a member of a BCS conference. I've been an advocate of the program for well over a decade after ending my playing there, and I can tell you that there has never been a coach that has generated the same good will among alumni and former players/coaches as Kill has. Recruiting class ranks mean very little if you're recruiting to a system. Years ago, a spread team would get ripped for recruiting mid-tier guys and having poor recruiting ranks. Now the systems have turned to favor a spread approach, so those same skillset players are more highly rated, which alters how rankings appear. He's only got one recruit so far for the 2014 class committed, but it's a four-star (via scout.com), top-20 RB and an in-state talent. His 2013 class doesn't have headline guys, but it's deep with 8 3-star guys, including a load of size up front on both sides of the ball. You're on a Twins forum, supporting a team that has lost 60% of its games the last two seasons after being in competition for the top record in the league in 2010, but a coach taking over a complete mess of a program that's won at the same rate is blasted.

Mr. Brooks
03-29-2013, 11:51 AM
You are entitled to your opinion. It's not as if they're scheduling Bemidji State or something, Kill has expressed a desire not to play a single FCS school if possible, but some local schools (North Dakota State, South Dakota State) are scheduled for local draw as much as anything. They're scheduling FBS schools that have every opportunity to play in a BCS bowl game. Same level of competition, but just not a member of a BCS conference. I've been an advocate of the program for well over a decade after ending my playing there, and I can tell you that there has never been a coach that has generated the same good will among alumni and former players/coaches as Kill has. Recruiting class ranks mean very little if you're recruiting to a system. Years ago, a spread team would get ripped for recruiting mid-tier guys and having poor recruiting ranks. Now the systems have turned to favor a spread approach, so those same skillset players are more highly rated, which alters how rankings appear. He's only got one recruit so far for the 2014 class committed, but it's a four-star (via scout.com), top-20 RB and an in-state talent. His 2013 class doesn't have headline guys, but it's deep with 8 3-star guys, including a load of size up front on both sides of the ball. You're on a Twins forum, supporting a team that has lost 60% of its games the last two seasons after being in competition for the top record in the league in 2010, but a coach taking over a complete mess of a program that's won at the same rate is blasted.

So you claim they paid $800,000 for UNC to go away, but are replacing them with, "equal level of competition". A) That's not true, and B) If it is true, that makes it even MORE rippable. That moves it from a "poorly spent" 800k, to a "complete waste" of 800k.
I mean, that makes me ask, once again, WHY? If Kill honestly thinks the team he is going to replace them with is equal competition, then why the hell does it matter which conference the team is from?

No, the Gophers have not won at the same rate as the Twins, unless you are counting the complete joke of a nonconference schedule. Get back to me when the Twins get to play 33% of their schedule against AAA teams, because that is basically the difference in competition between a Big Ten team, and these cupcake nonconference games they played last year.

Finally, I'm not ripping Kill because he hasnt won yet. I'm ripping him because I don't believe that he is aiming high enough with the program. It seems very obvious to me that his goal is to go 4-0 in non conference, so that he only has to win 2 games to make a meaningless bowl game. That is a losers mentality.
We disagree on his motivations, but the thing is, actions speak louder than words. You are believing his words, I'll believe his actions.
When the Twins pay the Orioles, Rays, and Rangers to go away, and replace them with AAA or Indy league teams, then I'll rip them for exactly the same thing.

biggentleben
03-29-2013, 12:28 PM
So you claim they paid $800,000 for UNC to go away, but are replacing them with, "equal level of competition". A) That's not true, and B) If it is true, that makes it even MORE rippable. That moves it from a "poorly spent" 800k, to a "complete waste" of 800k.
I mean, that makes me ask, once again, WHY? If Kill honestly thinks the team he is going to replace them with is equal competition, then why the hell does it matter which conference the team is from?

No, the Gophers have not won at the same rate as the Twins, unless you are counting the complete joke of a nonconference schedule. Get back to me when the Twins get to play 33% of their schedule against AAA teams, because that is basically the difference in competition between a Big Ten team, and these cupcake nonconference games they played last year.

Finally, I'm not ripping Kill because he hasnt won yet. I'm ripping him because I don't believe that he is aiming high enough with the program. It seems very obvious to me that his goal is to go 4-0 in non conference, so that he only has to win 2 games to make a meaningless bowl game. That is a losers mentality.
We disagree on his motivations, but the thing is, actions speak louder than words. You are believing his words, I'll believe his actions.
When the Twins pay the Orioles, Rays, and Rangers to go away, and replace them with AAA or Indy league teams, then I'll rip them for exactly the same thing.

Nowhere did I say "equal", I said "same level of competition". That's a big difference.

Once again, your assumption about Kill's reasoning for the early season schedule is simply incorrect. Bowl games do not factor into his consideration with the non-conference schedule. The Gophers play in a traditional power conference, so they are getting plenty of "tune-up" games for 3/4 of their schedule.

Measuring by the almighty bowl game metric, the Gophers played against (and beat) a very solid Syracuse team this year. This year Syracuse was the only non-conference foe to make a bowl game, but there were multiple Big Ten opponents who did not make a bowl game. There was also one non-conference team coming off of a bowl season.

Mr. Brooks
03-29-2013, 04:14 PM
Nowhere did I say "equal", I said "same level of competition". That's a big difference.

Once again, your assumption about Kill's reasoning for the early season schedule is simply incorrect. Bowl games do not factor into his consideration with the non-conference schedule. The Gophers play in a traditional power conference, so they are getting plenty of "tune-up" games for 3/4 of their schedule.

Measuring by the almighty bowl game metric, the Gophers played against (and beat) a very solid Syracuse team this year. This year Syracuse was the only non-conference foe to make a bowl game, but there were multiple Big Ten opponents who did not make a bowl game. There was also one non-conference team coming off of a bowl season.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
We both feel pretty strongly on it, so at this point continuing to debate it would be as pointless as debating religion.

The first time that Kill schedules a non conference schedule that isnt 4 cupcakes, I'll be the first one in here to admit I was wrong.

biggentleben
03-29-2013, 08:50 PM
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
We both feel pretty strongly on it, so at this point continuing to debate it would be as pointless as debating religion.

The first time that Kill schedules a non conference schedule that isnt 4 cupcakes, I'll be the first one in here to admit I was wrong.

Wanting wins does not equal wanting bowl games. Pure and simple.

Kill has not had 4 cupcakes yet, but you can continue down that road if you like.

Mr. Brooks
03-29-2013, 09:04 PM
Wanting wins does not equal wanting bowl games. Pure and simple.

Kill has not had 4 cupcakes yet, but you can continue down that road if you like.

That's because he was still playing out Brewster's schedule.

Who are the nonconference opponents this year?
UNLV (2-11), New Mexico St.(1-11), San Jose St.(5-7), Western Illinois(3-7). 4 cupcakes.

What about 2014: Eastern Illinois, Middle Tennessee St., New Mexico St., San Jose St.

2015: South Dakota St., Colorado St., Kent St., Ohio.

Next 3 seasons, 12 cupcakes.

Whether its about bowl games or not, he's scheduling cupcakes to pad his W total.

drjim
03-30-2013, 11:09 AM
What's your source on that? Everything I read says Tubby's extension increased the buyout from $1.5 to $2.5 mil:

Tubby Smith contract extension with Gophers includes $2.5M buyout max - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8229928/tubby-smith-contract-extension-gophers-includes-25m-buyout-max)

Tubby Smith extension details: Salary goes up, buyout goes up, will review at the end of season. | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/164907176.html)

I want to provide some clarification because I heard it again this week on the buyout. Maturi had negotiated an extension but Teague was the one who put the finishing touches on it. Teague was able to lower the negotiated extension from $3 mil to $2.5 mil in the final contract. That was where I got confused.

I would support Teague a little bit in this one. He was in no position to fire Tubby at that time but was able to save the program a little bit of money. Maturi was nothing short of a disaster.

USAFChief
03-30-2013, 01:30 PM
Andy Katz is reporting Flip declined the job. Ruh-roh.

twinsnorth49
03-31-2013, 09:57 AM
Actually, this extension was Norwood Teague's doing. (Although I suspect it was partially influenced by the AD change, with the new AD using the extension as a vote of confidence for Tubby. Not sure what good a vote of confidence is when you don't have confidence, though.)

Going into the last year of a coach's contract has been off-limits for awhile now -- remember the kerfuffle around Glen Mason with one year to go? And that was for a non-elite coach/program. The coach and their staff always need security beyond one year.

What's interesting is that anticipating the above effect, going into the last two years of a coach's contract is now almost unthinkable. Brewster got a token extension at that point, and Tubby got his big extension with two years left too.

I expect that any day now, Jerry Kill will require an extension beyond the five years remaining on his deal.

You're right it was under Teague but it was certainly Maturi and Kaler's deal. The fact Maturi stayed on with the University afterwards was even more baffling to me.

Kobs
03-31-2013, 02:29 PM
Andy Katz is reporting Flip declined the job. Ruh-roh.

I don't know why a college team would want Flip Saunders.

PseudoSABR
03-31-2013, 04:20 PM
I don't know why a college team would want Flip Saunders.
Because of his recruiting track record, of course.

USAFChief
04-01-2013, 08:42 AM
I don't know why a college team would want Flip Saunders. "A college team" probably wouldn't. "This college team" apparently did. Hence the "ruh-roh." When you've just canned a HOF coach and owe him $3M+ on the way out the door, your top choices turn you down, you turn to the local favorite who for all practical purposes has openly lobbied for the job, and HE turns you down... Ruh-roh. For the record, neither of us know whether Saunders would make a good UM coach. Whether or not he can coach basketball isn't a question. I happen to think he'd have had a pretty good chance of firing up the fanbase and perhaps getting the ball rolling on donations for a practice facility. Whether he could recruit is an open question, although I think he stood a good chance of recruiting well locally, and the right assistant(s) might help. Hoiberg seems to be doing OK.

spycake
04-01-2013, 10:21 AM
I would support Teague a little bit in this one. He was in no position to fire Tubby at that time but was able to save the program a little bit of money. Maturi was nothing short of a disaster.

I concur about Maturi, but I think some of this is spin. The more logical conclusion is that Teague, like most college athletic directors, doesn't really care about dollars and cents, so he was willing to extend Tubby just to keep up appearances, even though it ultimately cost the university an extra $1+ million less than a year later. I'm guessing Teague views that as chump change in his pursuit of a winning program like the "big boys" of college athletics.

But personally, absent any evidence that Minnesota can actually build and sustain such a program, I'd rather see a more realistic (and budget-conscious) focus on stability. Otherwise, we're basically the college equivalent of a pro team cycling through bad free agents, trying in vain to compete with the Yankees. And unfortunately, unlike the pro game where you have to pay some attention to the bottom line, college athletic programs don't seem to have any correction mechanism in place.

mike wants wins
04-01-2013, 10:34 AM
I agree with Spycake, go hire a mid-guy, and see if he works out and grows. Don't spend huge dollars at this point. But, if they do spend top dollars, it better be for a proven guy.

Fatt Crapps
04-01-2013, 10:53 AM
For the record, neither of us know whether Saunders would make a good UM coach. Whether or not he can coach basketball isn't a question.


Haha

kab21
04-02-2013, 01:16 AM
I was excited initially about Brewster's recruiting acumen, but his coaching never took hold. Coach Mason always seemed to have a chip on his shoulder and under-recruited to show how great a coach he was. Coach Wacker was solid, but seemed to lack that killer instinct. Time will show once Kill has the players to fit his system, but he is incredibly well-thought-of within national circles. I was told by one former Ohio State player that he would have been a big fan of Kill being hired there, which says volumes about his respect in the game.
Add Monson and Tubby to that list. There is an initial honeymoon period at UM where coaches just need to get the right players and then the program will turn around but the Gophers continue to be a mid-tier BB and FB program at best. I hope Kill turns it around though because I have always liked UM despite not being an alum.

luke829
04-03-2013, 03:42 PM
In the end the Gophers go with Richard Pitino, son of Rick and current coach at Florida International University (for 1 full season). Can't say I saw that coming.

mike wants wins
04-04-2013, 07:46 AM
Also shocked. One hire earlier than you'd expect for him. clearly they were spurned by many.

biggentleben
04-04-2013, 01:31 PM
Also shocked. One hire earlier than you'd expect for him. clearly they were spurned by many.

This was my thought, though my brother was told that he'd get an "upper echelon" job this year by people he was working with from ESPN during the Summit League tourney.

mike wants wins
04-04-2013, 03:25 PM
BTW, I like the hire, given what happened before it. If you can't get the guy(s) you want, roll the dice. don't just hire a retread.

drjim
04-06-2013, 08:20 AM
BTW, I like the hire, given what happened before it. If you can't get the guy(s) you want, roll the dice. don't just hire a retread.

I agree with this. After they couldn't get the top guys it was a young guy like this or a retread. And I consider Flip to be a retread in this equation.

BrentMpls
04-07-2013, 02:00 PM
The U of M is run horribly

spycake
04-08-2013, 10:24 AM
What are the odds that Pitino leaves the U after his first taste of success? Or earlier? He bailed on FIU after year 1 of his 6-year contract there. Although it's less likely he will see as big of a pay raise in the near future, so any move would primarily be based on prestige.

Mr. Brooks
04-08-2013, 10:35 AM
What are the odds that Pitino leaves the U after his first taste of success? Or earlier? He bailed on FIU after year 1 of his 6-year contract there. Although it's less likely he will see as big of a pay raise in the near future, so any move would primarily be based on prestige.

People need to stop thinking that this is a bad thing though!
If he is lured away, then that means he had success.
If he has success, then he makes this a more attractive job opening for the next hire we have to make.

USAFChief
04-08-2013, 09:05 PM
People need to stop thinking that this is a bad thing though!
If he is lured away, then that means he had success.
If he has success, then he makes this a more attractive job opening for the next hire we have to make.
Agree. I am mildly optimistic about the hire, and would be really, really happy if better jobs were being offered to him after a few years.

spycake
04-09-2013, 09:02 AM
People need to stop thinking that this is a bad thing though!
If he is lured away, then that means he had success.
If he has success, then he makes this a more attractive job opening for the next hire we have to make.
What about all the job overtures to Tubby while he was here? The ones he used to leverage a contract extension and more guaranteed money from panicked ADs despite never really accomplishing anything? I could see us entering a similar situation with Pitino.

It kind of sucks for a school at the U of M level, basically it's impossible to keep a coach in a good program. Unless you're willing to "settle" a bit on the right coach in exchange for some stability (a la Glen Mason, whose tenure may go down as a sort of modern "golden era" for U of M coaching). I don't get the sense that Pitino is that guy.

Mr. Brooks
04-10-2013, 02:16 PM
What about all the job overtures to Tubby while he was here? The ones he used to leverage a contract extension and more guaranteed money from panicked ADs despite never really accomplishing anything? I could see us entering a similar situation with Pitino.

It kind of sucks for a school at the U of M level, basically it's impossible to keep a coach in a good program. Unless you're willing to "settle" a bit on the right coach in exchange for some stability (a la Glen Mason, whose tenure may go down as a sort of modern "golden era" for U of M coaching). I don't get the sense that Pitino is that guy.

Tubby has had a HOF career. He didn't need to accomplish anything here to get offers. He was going to get those no matter what, just based off his name. Hence Jay Bilas saying it was "disgusting" to fire him. Clearly people hadn't even been looking at his results here, and were only seeing that a HOF coach had been fired.
This kid has proven nothing, if anyone tries to lure him away, it's going to be because he's done something here to earn it.
Huge difference.

spycake
04-12-2013, 09:31 AM
Pitino certainly has a name -- I could see him being lured away for that, certainly as much as Tubby was courted by other middle-tier programs despite a thin resume after his inherited Kentucky title. Especially if a program slightly bigger/better than the Gophers winds up in the same circumstance of everybody else turning them down.