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View Full Version : Article: Gardenhire announces his outfield plans



Parker Hageman
03-25-2012, 12:51 PM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?358-Gardenhire-announces-his-outfield-plans

Jim Crikket
03-25-2012, 01:10 PM
Late game defense should still be improved. I'd expect to see Span and Revere filling two OF spots for the final inning or two, similarly to how Gomez and Span were used together late in games 3 years ago. I'm going to continue to hope Willingham isn't the liability that Young was, as well.

woolhouse
03-25-2012, 01:55 PM
Revere is going to be kept to spell Span once or twice a week. It's my understanding that Span is still complaining of headaches, whether they stem from last season's concussion or are related to his previous vertigo maladies... I think Revere's strength will come in late-inning defensive replacement and pinch-running.

Seth Stohs
03-25-2012, 01:58 PM
It's my understanding that Span is still complaining of headaches, whether they stem from last season's concussion or are related to his previous vertigo maladies...

I haven't read anything about that. Hope not. But I do think Revere would get plenty of time in the OF.

woolhouse
03-25-2012, 02:10 PM
It was a week ago when Span was sitting out with neck stiffness. He wasn't sure if it was contributing to the occassional headache, or if he was still having residual effects from the concussion. He had said it was nothing he was worried about, but I think Span will sit more in the first weeks of the season to make sure...

John Bonnes
03-25-2012, 03:07 PM
Wow. I gotta say, this is a death knell for Revere's future as a starting outfielder, at least this year. I've been checked out of spring training games for the last week or so. Has he been struggling? In need of an attitude adjustment? I'll also say that Willingham, IMHO, has not looked bad in right field on those few appearances I've seen of him out there.

I'm a little stunned about this, to be honest with you. It's a plot twist to be sure.

But it does make all the puzzle pieces fit together. It protects Morneau. Doumit doesn't have to play first base, which he's said he isn't comfortable with. It rewards Parmelee's torrid spring, and a platoon of Parmelee and Plouffe (or Doumit and plouffe) make nice platoons.

Parker Hageman
03-25-2012, 03:16 PM
I gotta say, this is a death knell for Revere's future as a starting outfielder, at least this year. I've been checked out of spring training games for the last week or so. Has he been struggling? In need of an attitude adjustment?

Offensively, no. This spring he's 12-for-37 (.324) with a pair of doubles and three stolen bases. The only comments I've heard is that he is having troubles picking the ball off the ground and that his arm still is not up to snuff (which makes the choice of using him as a RF odd...).


I'll also say that Willingham, IMHO, has not looked bad in right field on those few appearances I've seen of him out there.

There was one ball in the Yankees game (I believe...one of the televised ones anyways) in which he made a few steps in and the ball was pounded to the warning track. Happens to everyone but seeing that he rates poorly on making plays behind him, I can see that being more of a trend than a mirage.

Seth Stohs
03-25-2012, 03:35 PM
The thing is, Willingham is going to be a bad outfielder defensively regardless of which corner spot he takes. Parmelee has played a ton of RF in his minor league career, but none in LF, so that is probably the bigger driver in the decision, in my opinion. Revere sounded resigned to going to Rochester, but I don't think that'll happen. I'm one who believes he should not play in RF because of the arm and the 1st to 3rd plays. Plouffe, Parmelee, Doumit can play RF... Revere can backup in LF and CF.

Parker Hageman
03-25-2012, 03:57 PM
Parmelee has played a ton of RF in his minor league career, but none in LF

I don't know if we should say a ton -- especially in the past two years where it was 57 games (and who knows how many actual innings out there). He played a lot more at the lower levels. It will be interesting to see where he is at now a few years removed from playing there regularly. As the range factor indicates, I don't think he can be any worse than Cuddyer out there.

Bark's Lounge
03-25-2012, 04:13 PM
If Parmelee is the starting RF that is great! He was the bright spot of last season with his September call up and he has continued swinging the bat with the best of them this spring. Although I was interested to see what Revere could do in the starting role as far as SB's and Avg. are concerned, I view him as no better than a 4th OF. As we all know he has no arm and can hit a little bit with no punch and does not walk much. This offense concerns me and we need more fire power. I know that Parmelee's Minor League stats are not the stuff dreams are made of, but the age of 23 seems to be around the time individuals start figuring some things out. He looks solid and I think you have to let him have a go of it. It might not be the best case scenario defensively, but we need offense. Plouffe will get his share of time jumping around the OF and IF and Doumit has had his share of injuries, he is no guarantee. I hope that the writing on the wall is true and Parmelee is in the starting line-up on Opening Day.

Jim Crikket
03-25-2012, 04:14 PM
I hadn't heard that Willingham had done too bad in RF either, but during one of the rain delays today, Gladden made an allusion to Willingham not looking at all good in RF and that this move reflected the Twins accepting that. Granted, you have to consider the source.

Revere clearly isn't going to be a starting MLB right fielder, so you may be right about this being a death knell for his chances. I figured that, realistically, he had until Benson could prove he can hit MLB hitting to make his case... but he may not end up having that long.

PeteyD33
03-25-2012, 06:15 PM
I guess I am a little confused. I will never pretend that I was a good baseball player and you can call me naive, but how difficult is it for a professional left fielder to move to the other side of the outfield. I guess I just don't understand why he would have a hard time with this. Could someone help me understand... Because it seems to me the best situation would be to have Willingham in right.

Jim H
03-25-2012, 06:41 PM
I don't think anything is set in stone yet. Revere could still end up taking the majority of the starts in LF. If Morneau is completely healthy, he gets a lot of starts at 1B. Willingham could get starts at DH. There is a lot of flexibility this year. I don't think there will be many guys starting over 150 games this year, even if everyone is 100% healthy.

Revere is probably too good and too young to get buried on the bench. Even if the Twins wanted to trade him, you won't get much for him till he proves he could be a big league regular.

jimbo92107
03-25-2012, 08:11 PM
I haven't read anything about that. Hope not. But I do think Revere would get plenty of time in the OF.

Especially when Scott Baker is pitching. Then you put Revere in CF, Span in RF and Plouffe in LF, and watch how fast they can run.

Billy Bremner
03-25-2012, 09:13 PM
Wow, the kool-aid is flowing freely among these Twins faithful. Ben Revere? Really? The rest of the AL Central will be saying (while laughing to themselves), "don't bring a knife to a gunfight."

The best joke I've seen in a long time is how posters here believe the Twins are relevant this year. Doesn't matter whether they win 63 or 73 games, this is a dead team walking. Show some discernment, fellows, or you're gonna be ridiculed as much as the Twins are.

That is all.

Neinstein
03-25-2012, 09:23 PM
Wow, the kool-aid is flowing freely among these Twins faithful. Ben Revere? Really? The rest of the AL Central will be saying (while laughing to themselves), "don't bring a knife to a gunfight."

The best joke I've seen in a long time is how posters here believe the Twins are relevant this year. Doesn't matter whether they win 63 or 73 games, this is a dead team walking. Show some discernment, fellows, or you're gonna be ridiculed as much as the Twins are.

That is all.
Okay, I'm curious, how are the Twins irrelevant?

lee_the_twins_fan
03-25-2012, 09:57 PM
The best joke I've seen in a long time is how posters here believe the Twins are relevant this year. Doesn't matter whether they win 63 or 73 games, this is a dead team walking. Show some discernment, fellows, or you're gonna be ridiculed as much as the Twins are.

That is all.

Don't count the Twins out yet... Yes, you can look at last year and say they lost 99 games. But how much did Mauer play? How much did Morneau play? How much did Span play? M&M appear to be healthier than they have in years. Span is still recovering, but will be an impact player.*

Yes, there are problems with the starting rotation. But I believe Twins management will be less likely to put up with ineffective players at any level. Changes are coming, probably in the way of promotions, or waiver picks.*

I hope the naysayers on this post go clear up to AL Central management. If they write off the Twins, maybe they'll keep their tougher pitchers and best players for other teams, and the Twins can take advantage.

Don't count the Twins out yet. And no, this isn't a "dead team walking."

nicksaviking
03-25-2012, 10:02 PM
That crash we just heard is Ben Revere's trade value jumping out the window. If the team only views him as a fourth outfielder (5th? 6th?) why weren't they shopping him all preseason and trying to sell another club on his youth, years of team control, minor league track record and unmatched range?

They can't believably claim they want him around to be a defensive replacement or pinch runner, they can call on Mastroianni to do that at any point. What a waisted opportunity to score a decent pitching prospect from another team. Telling the rest of the league how little you value the guy takes away any leverage. Same old MO, see Slowey, Young, Hardy and Lohse.

Billy Bremner
03-25-2012, 10:29 PM
A little more realistic discourse here, that recognizes the Twins lowly station would be welcome. News alert - Josh Willingham is lead-footed in the outfield - do you want to admit that now, or do you want to reveal your lack of credibility by missing that crucial point and instead pussyfoot about debating whether he is better in RF or LF? There's a whole league of teams out there who are gearing up and strategizing for the upcoming season, and rest assured that their plans, to a team, include not an iota of concern about your Minnesota Twins.

Billy Bremner
03-25-2012, 10:32 PM
That crash we just heard is Ben Revere's trade value jumping out the window. If the team only views him as a fourth outfielder (5th? 6th?) why weren't they shopping him all preseason and trying to sell another club on his youth, years of team control, minor league track record and unmatched range?

They can't believably claim they want him around to be a defensive replacement or pinch runner, they can call on Mastroianni to do that at any point. What a waisted opportunity to score a decent pitching prospect from another team. Telling the rest of the league how little you value the guy takes away any leverage. Same old MO, see Slowey, Young, Hardy and Lohse.

This Nick kid shows some promise. Keep up the good work!

lee_the_twins_fan
03-25-2012, 10:37 PM
There's a whole league of teams out there who are gearing up and strategizing for the upcoming season, and rest assured that their plans, to a team, include not an iota of concern about your Minnesota Twins.

I hope you're right, but I doubt it. No. 1 rule: Never underestimate your opposition.

Gernzy
03-26-2012, 08:38 AM
A little more realistic discourse here, that recognizes the Twins lowly station would be welcome. News alert - Josh Willingham is lead-footed in the outfield - do you want to admit that now, or do you want to reveal your lack of credibility by missing that crucial point and instead pussyfoot about debating whether he is better in RF or LF? There's a whole league of teams out there who are gearing up and strategizing for the upcoming season, and rest assured that their plans, to a team, include not an iota of concern about your Minnesota Twins.

White Sox fans are flooding our board...how about we wait until the season starts ok?

As for the outfield move I think its a good idea. I like having Revere as a late inning replacement.

steve v
03-26-2012, 03:56 PM
Wow. I gotta say, this is a death knell for Revere's future as a starting outfielder, at least this year. I've been checked out of spring training games for the last week or so. Has he been struggling? In need of an attitude adjustment? I'll also say that Willingham, IMHO, has not looked bad in right field on those few appearances I've seen of him out there.

I'm a little stunned about this, to be honest with you. It's a plot twist to be sure.

But it does make all the puzzle pieces fit together. It protects Morneau. Doumit doesn't have to play first base, which he's said he isn't comfortable with. It rewards Parmelee's torrid spring, and a platoon of Parmelee and Plouffe (or Doumit and plouffe) make nice platoons.

I just returned from watching five spring training games. Revere is lacking basic outfield skills (arm strength, cutting in front of the centerfielder when runner was tagging, missing ground balls) which had everyone talking. It looked like he was trying too hard and it became obvious he doesn't have major league skills. I really enjoyed watching Benson play. The sound of the ball jumping off his bat makes you feel that he is going to be a super star. Leaving Florida he left the best impression of all at the major league field.
It was fun watching TK working with Sano and the A players. That was the best part of the trip.

USAFChief
03-26-2012, 05:11 PM
That crash we just heard is Ben Revere's trade value jumping out the window. If the team only views him as a fourth outfielder (5th? 6th?) why weren't they shopping him all preseason and trying to sell another club on his youth, years of team control, minor league track record and unmatched range?

They can't believably claim they want him around to be a defensive replacement or pinch runner, they can call on Mastroianni to do that at any point. What a waisted opportunity to score a decent pitching prospect from another team. Telling the rest of the league how little you value the guy takes away any leverage. Same old MO, see Slowey, Young, Hardy and Lohse.

What trade value do you think other teams place on outfielders who can't hit?

Take of the rose colored glasses when looking at Ben Revere. He's nothing special. "Runs fast" is not a qualification to be an outfielder on a winning MLB baseball team. Even his defensive value (which isn't nearly as important for an outfielder as for infielders) is vastly overrated by many.

nicksaviking
03-26-2012, 09:44 PM
What trade value do you think other teams place on outfielders who can't hit?

Take of the rose colored glasses when looking at Ben Revere. He's nothing special. "Runs fast" is not a qualification to be an outfielder on a winning MLB baseball team. Even his defensive value (which isn't nearly as important for an outfielder as for infielders) is vastly overrated by many.

He can't? Because of a streaky rookie year? He could certainly hit at every other level. No one's claiming he would net any teams top young player, but he was on the organization's top ten prospect list for years. He should have been able to fetch a player of similar stature. No longer, after Gardy so flippantly disregarded him to the other 29 teams. Even getting another clubs number ten prospect would have been more useful then keeping him around as w bench player.

USAFChief
03-27-2012, 02:42 AM
He can't? Because of a streaky rookie year? He could certainly hit at every other level. No one's claiming he would net any teams top young player, but he was on the organization's top ten prospect list for years. He should have been able to fetch a player of similar stature. No longer, after Gardy so flippantly disregarded him to the other 29 teams. Even getting another clubs number ten prospect would have been more useful then keeping him around as w bench player.

Wait...other GMs, with dozens of scouts and reams of data at their disposal, changed their opinions of Ben Revere in the last couple days based on What Gardy said? They hadn't noticed his limited upside on their own?

Quick, let's get Gardy to say Nick Blackburn is going to win the next three Cy Youngs and dump him on some rube GM for the best five prospects in their system before they figure out who Blackburn is!

WJ
03-27-2012, 08:49 AM
The Twins have Span here and Benson coming up. That determines Revere's value to the Twins. The trick is to find a team that doesn't have a Span or a Benson. A team without other options will overlook some of Revere's flaws.

nicksaviking
03-27-2012, 09:25 AM
Wait...other GMs, with dozens of scouts and reams of data at their disposal, changed their opinions of Ben Revere in the last couple days based on What Gardy said? They hadn't noticed his limited upside on their own?

Quick, let's get Gardy to say Nick Blackburn is going to win the next three Cy Youngs and dump him on some rube GM for the best five prospects in their system before they figure out who Blackburn is!

No one would have changed their minds about what ever skill they determined Revere has. What I clearly said was, now that they know the Twins see little value in him, the Twins have no leverage if they had intended on moving him. No team will need to offer his equivalent value ** no matter what value anyone actually places on him** when they can easily point out to the Twins, "Hey, you don't want him, why should we give you anything for him?"

Shane Wahl
03-27-2012, 09:31 AM
The Twins are starting to shock me with some of these smart decisions. That said, a few things:

1. That Josh Willingham can't make the move to the other corner is a bit pathetic, isn't it? Maybe when sees how significantly easier RF is at TF, he may change his mind. He's going to be sub-par at either position.

2. There is a legitimate question as to whether or not Revere should start at Rochester to play every day to improve in areas he needs to improve (getting on base and better routes in the OF).

3. I worry about Parmelee beyond 57 at bats in the majors right now.

Shane Wahl
03-27-2012, 09:33 AM
No one would have changed their minds about what ever skill they determined Revere has. What I clearly said was, now that they know the Twins see little value in him, the Twins have no leverage if they had intended on moving him. No team will need to offer his equivalent value ** no matter what value anyone actually places on him** when they can easily point out to the Twins, "Hey, you don't want him, why should we give you anything for him?"

Yeah, it was clear to me that he was going to be the one traded eventually, so I hope he demonstrates some level of competence.

nicksaviking
03-27-2012, 10:55 AM
The Twins are starting to shock me with some of these smart decisions. That said, a few things:

1. That Josh Willingham can't make the move to the other corner is a bit pathetic, isn't it? Maybe when sees how significantly easier RF is at TF, he may change his mind. He's going to be sub-par at either position.

2. There is a legitimate question as to whether or not Revere should start at Rochester to play every day to improve in areas he needs to improve (getting on base and better routes in the OF).

3. I worry about Parmelee beyond 57 at bats in the majors right now.

I hope he can figure it out. Once the team is ready for Benson, Willingham would be a logical everyday DH choice. Unfortunately that position is likely needed for the more fragile players, Mauer, Morneau and Doumit. Three years with poor defense is a long time when you consider there are younger players looking for playing time in the outfield too.

Shane Wahl
03-27-2012, 03:03 PM
I hope he can figure it out. Once the team is ready for Benson, Willingham would be a logical everyday DH choice. Unfortunately that position is likely needed for the more fragile players, Mauer, Morneau and Doumit. Three years with poor defense is a long time when you consider there are younger players looking for playing time in the outfield too.

It's one thing to be sub-par at one OF position, but to force a situation where 2/3 of the OF is below average is problematic. I am not sure about Parmelee's RF defense, but hopefully Plouffe gets it together. I marvel at the fact that Twins never moved Delmon to RF where he belonged and now Willingham is unable to move to where he belongs. Given his inability to make this simple transition, there is no better choice than the one the Twins are making--they cannot have Revere play RF (Willingham's arm belongs there).