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Jim Crikket
03-20-2013, 06:45 PM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1470-The-Two-Week-Warning

Old Twins Cap
03-20-2013, 08:06 PM
Deduno hasn't shown you enough? Pretty tough for him to get any respect in these parts.

tellis205
03-20-2013, 08:12 PM
Pelfrey is getting too much respect here. I don't believe that he's suddenly going to be able to locate consistently just because the season starts in 2 weeks. He needs to go down for a month at least. He's just gonna dig himself into a hole early and it'll be a struggle from there on out. PJ Walters is capable of giving a handful of good starts just like he did last year and he'd be a good bandaid until Pelfrey is ready. I realize that Walters isn't on the 40 man but there's a few boys that should be coming off that roster anyway.

Jim Crikket
03-20-2013, 08:22 PM
Deduno hasn't shown you enough? Pretty tough for him to get any respect in these parts.

Deduno's performance in the championship game of the WBC came after I wrote and published this article. Certainly, another good start there helped his case. I probably actually give his WBC performance more weight than a lot of people do, but even I'm not prepared to say he's shown enough yet to overcome his lack of a 40-man roster spot, especially if we're talking about him being the #5 starter who just gets one start before Diamond returns.

I'm going to be very interested to see if his success continues with Twins catchers calling his pitches the next couple weeks. I'm rooting for him, if for no other reason than he's got different "stuff" than the rest of the rotation members and if you're going to have 5 right handed starting pitchers, it's probably a good idea to have a couple that at least show hitters a little something unusual.

bear333
03-20-2013, 09:12 PM
Deduno hasn't shown you enough? Pretty tough for him to get any respect in these parts. It Looks like Gardenhire and Ryan are finally taking serious notice. Gardenhire says he will try to work him into a start Sunday and that he was impressed with Deduno's performance at the Classic.

Mr. Brooks
03-20-2013, 09:17 PM
It Looks like Gardenhire and Ryan are finally taking serious notice. Gardenhire says he will try to work him into a start Sunday and that he was impressed with Deduno's performance at the Classic.

I'm not sure what you mean by finally taking notice?
They signed him as a FA 15 months ago, then brought him back this year when all 29 other teams passed on him, so they must have seen SOMETHING in him to begin with.

beckmt
03-20-2013, 10:10 PM
Deduno should be in the rotation. We can send Henricks back to Rochester. He is a great AAA pitcher, who will probably never make it in the bigs

ssmart
03-21-2013, 12:07 AM
Could not agree with Crikket more.
I'm sure these pitchers in camp are working on their delivery and pitch control, for the opening of the season.
Let's see what the next week brings, as things get a little more serious.

NoCal
03-21-2013, 12:54 AM
Just a note about other camps. Scott Baker has been shut down - elbow issues. Sean Marcum has had shoulder problems. Ryan Dempster is having elbow problems. This winter's free agent pitching market really was a minefield.......

PseudoSABR
03-21-2013, 02:13 AM
I don't think we really can make much of veteran pitchers spring training performances especially those returning from injury. Honestly, I hope our pitchers are working on technique rather than trying to get statistical results, but that probably goes without saying. The younger guys, Hendricks in particular, the statistical outcome of spring training is probably more determinate to making the roster, but not for the likes of Worley, Pelfrey, and Correia. We won't really know what we have with the National league bunch until the season starts.

Also, if any of the relievers (Wood, Presley, Roenicke) don't make the roster, a spot easily opens for Deduno.

Chris in Osaka
03-21-2013, 02:58 AM
Cut Blackburn, Pelfrey, and Correaia right now and seriously begin the process of rebuilding the team for 2016. We should adopt the Astro's model.

70charger
03-21-2013, 08:25 AM
Cut Blackburn, Pelfrey, and Correaia right now and seriously begin the process of rebuilding the team for 2016. We should adopt the Astro's model.

This idea sucks because it gives away Mauer's prime and ignores some of the best talent we have in the high minors/rookies (Hicks, Arcia, Meyer, May, Gibson, etc.). Besides, Blackburn was already cut.

Back to the actual topic - I hope PseudoSABR is right about working on mechanics and not worrying about results. I think that's generally what veterans do in spring training if they don't feel worried about winning a spot. But the fairly abysmal performances thus far are not very heartening.

fairweather
03-21-2013, 09:29 AM
Gives away Mauers prime? the idea sucks? Mauer sucks. Oh whoopty doo he hits a lot of singles! Go ask Seattle how much all Ichiro singles helped them over the last decade. Go ask Boston how many titles Wade Boggs thousands of singles brought to bean town. Go ask Padres fans about all the titles Tony Gwynn's seemingly countless singles brought to southern california. That's right it didn't happen because you can't have the best offensive player on your team be a singles hitter and hope to win. Mauer is not good enough or man enough to lead a team to a championship! Just a big boring sissy automaton, that's all Mauer is. The Tim Duncan of baseball without the winning. Is he going to lead the Twins to a championship hitting singles up the middle? NO. Just face it he's not even close to Kirby Puckett and the Twins bet on the wrong horse when they gave him that big contract.

70charger
03-21-2013, 09:45 AM
Well that was retarded.

Yeah, let's get rid of exceptional players because that will somehow make it easier to win titles. Geez.

bl4ckduck
03-21-2013, 10:18 AM
Pelfrey is getting too much respect here. I don't believe that he's suddenly going to be able to locate consistently just because the season starts in 2 weeks. He needs to go down for a month at least. He's just gonna dig himself into a hole early and it'll be a struggle from there on out. PJ Walters is capable of giving a handful of good starts just like he did last year and he'd be a good bandaid until Pelfrey is ready. I realize that Walters isn't on the 40 man but there's a few boys that should be coming off that roster anyway.

Why not start Pelfrey on the DL and let the young ones duke it out?

twinsnorth49
03-21-2013, 11:38 AM
Gives away Mauers prime? the idea sucks? Mauer sucks. Oh whoopty doo he hits a lot of singles! Go ask Seattle how much all Ichiro singles helped them over the last decade. Go ask Boston how many titles Wade Boggs thousands of singles brought to bean town. Go ask Padres fans about all the titles Tony Gwynn's seemingly countless singles brought to southern california. That's right it didn't happen because you can't have the best offensive player on your team be a singles hitter and hope to win. Mauer is not good enough or man enough to lead a team to a championship! Just a big boring sissy automaton, that's all Mauer is. The Tim Duncan of baseball without the winning. Is he going to lead the Twins to a championship hitting singles up the middle? NO. Just face it he's not even close to Kirby Puckett and the Twins bet on the wrong horse when they gave him that big contract.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fighting/setting-himself-on-fire.gif

cwzimmerman
03-21-2013, 11:45 AM
Why not start Pelfrey on the DL and let the young ones duke it out?

That sounds like a marvelous idea! Give some healthy arms a shot. May not provide better results, but you never know.

cwzimmerman
03-21-2013, 11:48 AM
Just a note about other camps. Scott Baker has been shut down - elbow issues. Sean Marcum has had shoulder problems. Ryan Dempster is having elbow problems. This winter's free agent pitching market really was a minefield.......

As we've been seeing with Mike Pelfrey.

Interesting regarding the Cubs shutting down Baker, although not all that surprising to me given his past history.

Mr. Brooks
03-21-2013, 12:24 PM
Gives away Mauers prime? the idea sucks? Mauer sucks. Oh whoopty doo he hits a lot of singles! Go ask Seattle how much all Ichiro singles helped them over the last decade. Go ask Boston how many titles Wade Boggs thousands of singles brought to bean town. Go ask Padres fans about all the titles Tony Gwynn's seemingly countless singles brought to southern california. That's right it didn't happen because you can't have the best offensive player on your team be a singles hitter and hope to win. Mauer is not good enough or man enough to lead a team to a championship! Just a big boring sissy automaton, that's all Mauer is. The Tim Duncan of baseball without the winning. Is he going to lead the Twins to a championship hitting singles up the middle? NO. Just face it he's not even close to Kirby Puckett and the Twins bet on the wrong horse when they gave him that big contract.

You realize I could make a list just as long with a bunch of guys who hit a ton of HR's and dont have rings as well?

ThePuck
03-21-2013, 02:22 PM
Gives away Mauers prime? the idea sucks? Mauer sucks. Oh whoopty doo he hits a lot of singles! Go ask Seattle how much all Ichiro singles helped them over the last decade. Go ask Boston how many titles Wade Boggs thousands of singles brought to bean town. Go ask Padres fans about all the titles Tony Gwynn's seemingly countless singles brought to southern california. That's right it didn't happen because you can't have the best offensive player on your team be a singles hitter and hope to win. Mauer is not good enough or man enough to lead a team to a championship! Just a big boring sissy automaton, that's all Mauer is. The Tim Duncan of baseball without the winning. Is he going to lead the Twins to a championship hitting singles up the middle? NO. Just face it he's not even close to Kirby Puckett and the Twins bet on the wrong horse when they gave him that big contract.

Have you ever thought about therapy?

James
03-21-2013, 04:29 PM
Gives away Mauers prime? the idea sucks? Mauer sucks. Oh whoopty doo he hits a lot of singles! Go ask Seattle how much all Ichiro singles helped them over the last decade. Go ask Boston how many titles Wade Boggs thousands of singles brought to bean town. Go ask Padres fans about all the titles Tony Gwynn's seemingly countless singles brought to southern california. That's right it didn't happen because you can't have the best offensive player on your team be a singles hitter and hope to win. Mauer is not good enough or man enough to lead a team to a championship! Just a big boring sissy automaton, that's all Mauer is. The Tim Duncan of baseball without the winning. Is he going to lead the Twins to a championship hitting singles up the middle? NO. Just face it he's not even close to Kirby Puckett and the Twins bet on the wrong horse when they gave him that big contract.
Joe Mauer Career stats (BA/OBP/OPS): .323/.405/.873
Yup... those numbers scream "this guy sucks!"

LimestoneBaggy
03-21-2013, 04:43 PM
Gives away Mauers prime? the idea sucks? Mauer sucks. Oh whoopty doo he hits a lot of singles! Go ask Seattle how much all Ichiro singles helped them over the last decade. Go ask Boston how many titles Wade Boggs thousands of singles brought to bean town. Go ask Padres fans about all the titles Tony Gwynn's seemingly countless singles brought to southern california. That's right it didn't happen because you can't have the best offensive player on your team be a singles hitter and hope to win. Mauer is not good enough or man enough to lead a team to a championship! Just a big boring sissy automaton, that's all Mauer is. The Tim Duncan of baseball without the winning. Is he going to lead the Twins to a championship hitting singles up the middle? NO. Just face it he's not even close to Kirby Puckett and the Twins bet on the wrong horse when they gave him that big contract.

If you aren't being sarcastic, I could not disagree with you more.

Steve Penz
03-21-2013, 05:02 PM
Gives away Mauers prime? the idea sucks? Mauer sucks. Oh whoopty doo he hits a lot of singles! Go ask Seattle how much all Ichiro singles helped them over the last decade. Go ask Boston how many titles Wade Boggs thousands of singles brought to bean town. Go ask Padres fans about all the titles Tony Gwynn's seemingly countless singles brought to southern california. That's right it didn't happen because you can't have the best offensive player on your team be a singles hitter and hope to win. Mauer is not good enough or man enough to lead a team to a championship! Just a big boring sissy automaton, that's all Mauer is. The Tim Duncan of baseball without the winning. Is he going to lead the Twins to a championship hitting singles up the middle? NO. Just face it he's not even close to Kirby Puckett and the Twins bet on the wrong horse when they gave him that big contract.

I can't believe I am going to give this subject any time. Shame on me. Please just look at these stats.

2012: Rangers (2nd in OBP, 6th in HR)
2011: Red Sox (1st in OBP, 3rd in HR)
2010: Yankees (1st in OBP, 3rd in HR)
2009: Yankees (1st in OBP, 1st in HR)
2008: Rangers (2nd in OBP, 6th in HR)
2007: Yankees (1st in OBP, 4th in HR)
2006: Yankees (1st in OBP, 5th in HR)
2005: Red Sox (1st in OBP, 6th in HR)
2004: Red Sox (1st in OBP, 5th in HR)
2003: Red Sox (1st in OBP, 2nd in HR)
2002: Yankees (1st in OBP, 2nd in HR)
2001: Mariners (1st in OBP, 18th in HR)

Those are the top run scoring teams year by year. As you can see, OBP is a more important stat than Homeruns. Have a nice day.

bear333
03-22-2013, 07:47 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by finally taking notice?
They signed him as a FA 15 months ago, then brought him back this year when all 29 other teams passed on him, so they must have seen SOMETHING in him to begin with.
You know what I mean. The sounds they have been making have all been :He has control issues." They have given the impression that he had little or no chance to make the rotation. Now they are finally making different sounds. I know Ryan always saw his potential and that is why he gave him a shot. They are just now, finally, expressing optimism instead of criticisms and that makes me happy. Also, De Vries has been working his but off and is very hungry. It would be a travesty, in my opinion, if he is not given an opening day slot, even if it is in the bullpen. Long relief?

bear333
03-22-2013, 07:51 AM
[QUOTE=bear333;91914]You know what I mean. The sounds they have been making have all been :He has control issues." They have given the impression that he had little or no chance to make the rotation. Now they are finally making different sounds. I know Ryan always saw his potential and that is why he gave him a shot. They are just now, finally, expressing optimism instead of criticisms and that makes me happy. Also, De Vries has been working his but off and is very hungry. It would be a travesty, in my opinion, if he is not given an opening day slot, even if it is in the bullpen. Long relief?

bear333
03-22-2013, 07:56 AM
I can't believe I am going to give this subject any time. Shame on me. Please just look at these stats.

2012: Rangers (2nd in OBP, 6th in HR)
2011: Red Sox (1st in OBP, 3rd in HR)
2010: Yankees (1st in OBP, 3rd in HR)
2009: Yankees (1st in OBP, 1st in HR)
2008: Rangers (2nd in OBP, 6th in HR)
2007: Yankees (1st in OBP, 4th in HR)
2006: Yankees (1st in OBP, 5th in HR)
2005: Red Sox (1st in OBP, 6th in HR)
2004: Red Sox (1st in OBP, 5th in HR)
2003: Red Sox (1st in OBP, 2nd in HR)
2002: Yankees (1st in OBP, 2nd in HR)
2001: Mariners (1st in OBP, 18th in HR)

Those are the top run scoring teams year by year. As you can see, OBP is a more important stat than Homeruns. Have a nice day. That does say it all. Thanks for the post. Mauer can't get on base and then hit himself home. That is why we have Willingham and Morneau on the payroll.

ThePuck
03-22-2013, 08:15 AM
That does say it all. Thanks for the post. Mauer can't get on base and then hit himself home. That is why we have Willingham and Morneau on the payroll.


Not only that, but Mauer's numbers with RISP are fantastic as well. People say, well, they're only a little bit above what he normally hits overall, and that statement is all well and good (if not completely true when looking past BA), but the fact remains it's still better than anyone else on the team hits with RISP, whether it's much above what he normally hits or not.

Oldgoat_MN
03-22-2013, 03:30 PM
Those are the top run scoring teams year by year. As you can see, OBP is a more important stat than Homeruns. Have a nice day.


Thank you SRP.
That was excellent.

Mr. Brooks
03-22-2013, 05:46 PM
You know what I mean. The sounds they have been making have all been :He has control issues." They have given the impression that he had little or no chance to make the rotation. Now they are finally making different sounds. I know Ryan always saw his potential and that is why he gave him a shot. They are just now, finally, expressing optimism instead of criticisms and that makes me happy. Also, De Vries has been working his but off and is very hungry. It would be a travesty, in my opinion, if he is not given an opening day slot, even if it is in the bullpen. Long relief?

I know the Twins get the rap of "pitch to contact", and often deservedly so, but Deduno DOES have control issues. I dont feel like them stating the obvious is some kind of undeserved criticism.
The Twins are not the only team that a)thinks having control problems is a serious issue, and b)thinks that Deduno has control problems, as evidenced by nobody else wanting him.
I am not saying that those issues cannot be fixed, but I will say that the small sample size of the WBC is not necessarily evidence that it HAS been fixed.
And finally, IMO, I think the reason he now is in the mix for a 4th or 5th spot in the rotation has much more to do with Diamond, Gibson, and Hendricks, than it does to his WBC performances.
While it certainly hasnt hurt has chances, and probably has helped a little bit, I just dont think MLB managers, coaches, and GM's put nearly as much stock into this small of a sample size as some people in here are.