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Nick Nelson
03-17-2013, 11:00 PM
Twins notes: Filling out the starting rotation | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/198633811.html)

I'm pulling for Samuel Deduno to win a spot in the rotation, but had viewed him as something of a long shot since he's not in camp and not on the 40-man roster. It sounds like the Twins have taken notice of his impressive WBC performance though.


And if you were wondering what limiting Team USA to one run over four innings on five hits, a walk and seven strikeouts did for Deduno on Thursday, it did a lot.

“He’s definitely got his hat in the ring,” Gardenhire said. “Probably more toward the center of the ring. That was pretty good what he’s done.’’

Physics Guy
03-17-2013, 11:28 PM
At the start of spring training, I had Hendriks as nearly a lock for the rotation. This was assuming Diamond wouldn't be ready. If Deduno keeps pitching well he could very well pass up Hendriks. Honestly, DeVries may be passing him up also. There were some interesting comments from the coaching staff following Hendriks' last start.

twinscowboysbulls
03-18-2013, 07:24 AM
So this means what?

Worley
Pelfrey
DeVries
Corriea
Deduno

--Then Diamond when he's ready?
Ugh. I hope we score lots of runs.

jay
03-18-2013, 07:39 AM
Worley
Pelfrey
DeVries
Corriea
Deduno

--Then Diamond when he's ready?
Ugh. I hope we score lots of runs.

I wouldn't be against this for now given what we have. We just need to finish filtering through what is on hand. Presumably, at least 2 will flop and we've got Diamond to go with Gibson/Hendriks as replacements in May/June.

mike wants wins
03-18-2013, 07:55 AM
I had assumed Hendriks would be in the majors all year this year, so they could see what they have or don't.....but now I'm less sure of that.

stringer bell
03-18-2013, 08:30 AM
It's kinda going in reverse order for the "non-locks"--Gibson, Hendriks have drifted down while the former long-shots (Deduno, Walters, De Vrieze) have moved up. I'm too confident that they'll all get their shot if they perform OK at Rochester, but Hendriks now has to pitch his way into the rotation (IMHO) or have D, W, D pitch their way out. I am in favor of a sixth guy beginning the season as the Twins long man, because with that staff there will be many opportunites to go multiple innings--besides if either De Vrieze or Walters doesn't make the rotation, they probably deserve a shot to go north. Besides the bullpen guys haven't covered themselves in glory anyway.

Hoosier_Twinsfan
03-18-2013, 08:49 AM
Up to this point, I would like to see Samuel Deduno as the teams fifth starter. He possess a no fear attitude when he is out there. One question I have is, what is currently going on with Rich Harden?

Badsmerf
03-18-2013, 09:17 AM
''Hendriks threw the ball good,'' Gardenhire said. ''But didn't really change his speeds much. All fastballs tonight. Really weren't many spinners in there, changeups, nothing. I mean, it's pretty impressive that you can throw all fastballs, but it doesn't really work. You've got to mix in your other stuff. We noticed that quite a bit. His fastball, he located it and it was down, which was a good thing. Made one mistake to Salty. He killed it. But for the most part, he was efficient.''

Is that the quote you're referring to? Spring training stats mean little right now. Sounds like Hendriks was focusing on mostly mechanics to me (he referenced it with his bullpen session with Andy). I'm not too worried about Hendriks. He has nothing to prove in AAA and a demotion would delay his progress.

Badsmerf
03-18-2013, 09:20 AM
Up to this point, I would like to see Samuel Deduno as the teams fifth starter. He possess a no fear attitude when he is out there. One question I have is, what is currently going on with Rich Harden?

His timetable got pushed back. I bet he starts in extended spring training and begins the year with Ft. Myers. I wouldn't bet on seeing him before May at the earliest.

crarko
03-19-2013, 08:30 AM
And he's starting the championship game tonight against Puerto Rico. Good luck, Samuel.

Riverbrian
03-19-2013, 10:28 AM
I'm really starting to wonder what we have in Deduno.

He has been selected to start against USA and now the championship game against PR.

Doesn't this make a pretty loud statement about his talent from a comparison standpoint. At least a loud statement about what Tony Pena thinks of Deduno.

I realize that certain starters like Cueto and Ubaldo are not on the team but this is a team with Wandy and Volquez on it as starting options to choose from.

I know that Pena and the other managers are going to try to keep the rotations and days of rest in order because the MLB Squads will scream if he doesn't... But... I'm sure the manager started planning his rotation on who would start the championship if they got that far when putting together the rotation at the beginning.

Doesn't Deduno starting this game tonight make a statement about what kind of talent he has.

In consideration of our rotation... Based on this... I can't see a reason why Deduno would not open up the season in the Twins Rotation.

Just a matter of getting him on the 40 man and who gets released to make room for him.

USAFChief
03-19-2013, 11:14 AM
//insert name here// firmly in mix for rotation spot.

cmathewson
03-19-2013, 11:35 AM
''Hendriks threw the ball good,'' Gardenhire said. ''But didn't really change his speeds much. All fastballs tonight. Really weren't many spinners in there, changeups, nothing. I mean, it's pretty impressive that you can throw all fastballs, but it doesn't really work. You've got to mix in your other stuff. We noticed that quite a bit. His fastball, he located it and it was down, which was a good thing. Made one mistake to Salty. He killed it. But for the most part, he was efficient.''

Is that the quote you're referring to? Spring training stats mean little right now. Sounds like Hendriks was focusing on mostly mechanics to me (he referenced it with his bullpen session with Andy). I'm not too worried about Hendriks. He has nothing to prove in AAA and a demotion would delay his progress.

I think it's a matter of telling him to mix up his pitches and then he goes out there and doesn't mix up his pitches. It's also a matter of location. He's got good velocity and a deceptive delivery makes him "sneaky fast". But he need to hit his spots. When he doesn't, he gives up 4 homer runs in four innings.

I'm not convinced he's progressed since last year. He is falling into the same habits that got him demoted three times last year. Recall the last time he got demoted, it was because Anderson was exasperated that he threw 95% fastballs and gave up 6 runs. I don't think a couple of months of AAA will hurt him. He's still very young (younger than Gibson).

Willihammer
03-19-2013, 11:46 AM
Could say the same about Worley. He threw a few nice sliders in hish last start but I think I counted 3 changups / splitters / splangeups. The rest were all 2 and 4 seem fastballs (which look to be as good as they're going to get). Its like someone needs to remind these guys that ST games don't count.

Blackjack
03-19-2013, 12:42 PM
I think it's a matter of telling him to mix up his pitches and then he goes out there and doesn't mix up his pitches. It's also a matter of location. He's got good velocity and a deceptive delivery makes him "sneaky fast". But he need to hit his spots. When he doesn't, he gives up 4 homer runs in four innings.

I'm not convinced he's progressed since last year. He is falling into the same habits that got him demoted three times last year. Recall the last time he got demoted, it was because Anderson was exasperated that he threw 95% fastballs and gave up 6 runs. I don't think a couple of months of AAA will hurt him. He's still very young (younger than Gibson).

This may sound like a dumb question, but doesn't the catcher call the pitches? If the pitcher isn't shaking him off, then the catcher should get blamed for pitch selection, correct? Isn't it as simple as Anderson telling Hendricks to just throw what his veteran catchers are calling for??

3up3down
03-19-2013, 02:25 PM
the difference is worley is a lock in the rotation, he has the luxury of working on things in games, hendriks should not be working on things in games he should be worried about results, i think that may be some of his problem, he has been given his spot & has not earned it...with deduno TR said it best just nobody wants to hear it, you cant throw him out there every 5th day & hope you get 4-5 innings, that would kill the pen & you cant have that for a whole season ...and i have seen where some have said let him throw 120 pitches, that is never going to happen...the best thing for deduno is throw the slider 30 times for a inning or two out of the pen....

glunn
03-19-2013, 06:04 PM
If Deduno completes 4 or 5 strong innings tonight against what is essentially an all-star level lineup, then I am hoping that some people might reconsider their thinking about him.

Brad Swanson
03-19-2013, 06:08 PM
He's certainly the best Dominican starter on the team.

worm33
03-19-2013, 06:28 PM
If Deduno completes 4 or 5 strong innings tonight against what is essentially an all-star level lineup, then I am hoping that some people might reconsider their thinking about him.

All star level lineup? Um no

glunn
03-19-2013, 06:39 PM
All star level lineup? Um no

OK, maybe a bit of exaggeration, but at the very least he is facing some of the top MLB players from a number of teams.

worm33
03-19-2013, 06:48 PM
OK, maybe a bit of exaggeration, but at the very least he is facing some of the top MLB players from a number of teams.

Beltran and Molina yes. They have 4 major league starters and 1 utility guy...Pretty compareable to a spring training lineup.

TNTwinsFan
03-19-2013, 07:06 PM
4Ks through 2IP! And some are still calling for more tune up in AAA!? I guess I might be able to get behind a bullpen stint, but only if the Twins' starters were better quality. We'll see how he does the rest of this game and ST, but, man....its hard to argue against what he's done in the WBC! Go Deduno!

worm33
03-19-2013, 07:35 PM
Off-speed stuff looks really good and he has good control of it...If he just had a little fastball command....

Riverbrian
03-19-2013, 07:40 PM
The guy looks fantastic. Strong from the start. Big stage... Ceremonies before the game... WBC Championship and he's under control.

The Twins rotation shouldn't be in his way. He should have a job.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 07:44 PM
Short and arguably one notch above string training sample size or not, color me impressed with him. I don't think he will ever be anything amazing, but he could be a nice #4/#5 for a couple years for us which would go along ways towards competeing.

Linus
03-19-2013, 07:49 PM
At this point, he has to be given some consideration. His stuff and the stage on which he has displayed it really have to be noticed. Just hope 40 man issues don't deny him a chance to be in the rotation.

jorgenswest
03-19-2013, 08:13 PM
Deduno won't be helped by AAA. The Twins can afford to give him a long look. Let's put him out there opening day against Verlander.

IdahoPilgrim
03-19-2013, 08:14 PM
I'm not that surprised that he's doing well. He showed some electric stuff last year. It just wasn't consistent. If he has managed to tighten up his control a little bit, he could be very effective. He could the be the "Diamond-type" surprise of 2013.

Physics Guy
03-19-2013, 08:21 PM
They need a couple of "Diamond-like" surprises this year. I'm hoping Hendriks figures it out and can be included.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 08:24 PM
If Hendriks and DeDuno can find a way to stick, then we could actually have ourselves a real rotation in 2014 with Meyer and Gibson at the front.

3up3down
03-19-2013, 08:26 PM
There is no way possible anyone could like Hendriks over Deduno, if you watched tonight Deduno showed you exactly what Hendriks don't have...a out pitch... Every time he got behind in the count or in a jam he went to the slider...I still believe he should be in the pen because I just don't see his FB commnd improving...but I was impressed tonight...

Linus
03-19-2013, 08:38 PM
He is one of those rare pitchers who actuallly have a better chance of throwing a strike with his breaking ball. I agree that he doesn't need AAA - the question is throwing it over, not if his stuff is good enough. I think Hendriks will make it but it is going to take a year or two of getting beat up a little. Due to his mediocre stuff, he has to be nearly perfect with his speeds and locations and that will take some time to fine tune to a big league level

Brad Swanson
03-19-2013, 08:40 PM
I absolutely like Hendriks more than Deduno. 13 exhibition innings doesn't sway me enough to like a wild, 29-year-old with no track record over a 24-year-old with an impressive climb through the farm system. I'd much rather see what Hendriks does with a season's worth of starts.

Riverbrian
03-19-2013, 09:17 PM
To me it's not a question of liking one over the other. I have high hopes for Hendriks but Deduno looks good to go right now.

No it wasn't an all star lineup but he was causing problems for guys who can hit. 4 batters total got good wood on him... 4 batters that's it... My favorite moment was his last out... Pena walks out to talk with him and you could see Deduno point to his own chest... Saying I got it and he finished with a K.

It wasn't a slider that was his only out pitch... Tonight it was that change up that breaks down and in on lefties. Against Team USA it was that back door spinner against the lefties.

Out pitch(s)... Make it plural.

Its a small sample size but there is no doubt that the Twins brass were watching. This ain't the same guy who was throwing last August. He was spotting some stuff.

I'm on board... Get him back to Fort Myers quickly... Cram footwork and mechanics at him and give him the ball when his turn comes up. I think we got something here.

TNTwinsFan
03-19-2013, 09:35 PM
Deduno's Line for this WBC Championship Win: 5 IP, 2 H, 3 BB, 5K, 76 Pitches thrown, 46 for strikes.....Any of our current starters have a similar line this spring? On an equivalent stage? Methinks he looks like our #1 Starter right now. Maybe he settles in as our #2 or #3 by the end of ST? Congrats to him, his fellow Dominican teammates and his countrymen! Great win for them!

TNTwinsFan
03-19-2013, 09:42 PM
By the way, just to give some perspective into my ability to project winners: after tonight's first two NCAA Final Four Tournament games, I am......0-2......Luckily the rest of my bracket looks good as I had none of the winners/losers of these matchups making past the next round....Whatever, I'm a baseball fan through and through! March Madness bridges the gap to Opening Day!

Physics Guy
03-19-2013, 09:44 PM
I know this is a Deduno thread, but we've been talking Hendriks also. Souhan had an interesting take (I know, I was surprised also) regarding Hendriks on 1500 last week with Reusse. His impression was that at AAA he commands the outside corner (actually just off it), causing guys to swing at pitches just outside the zone. He tries to do the same thing with major leaguers who have more patience and has no success. IMO, until he can command inside the zone at the MLB level he won't take that next step. I for one, certainly hope he does. Also, kudos to Deduno for picking up the W tonight.

jokin
03-19-2013, 10:00 PM
Deduno's Line for this WBC Championship Win: 5 IP, 2 H, 3 BB, 5K, 76 Pitches thrown, 46 for strikes.....Any of our current starters have a similar line this spring? On an equivalent stage? Methinks he looks like our #1 Starter right now. Maybe he settles in as our #2 or #3 by the end of ST? Congrats to him, his fellow Dominican teammates and his countrymen! Great win for them!

Dominican Winter League Stats for Deduno in 25.2IP and 5 starts:

0.35ERA/1.13WHIP/11.2K*9

The Twins now have a viable pitching candidate for inclusion onto the roster. I'm sure they're sweating out how/whether to clear a roster space for him and to decide whether or not to "risk" putting him in the starting rotation or making him a set-up man. Gardy and Ryan also must have been quite concerned about Deduno showing too much emotion out there, Butera will have to be his calming caddy.

I hope they realize they have the chance to build good-will in the Caribbean by maximizing his exposure with the big club while he's such a hot commodity.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 10:04 PM
I hope they realize they have the chance to build good-will in the Caribbean by maximizing his exposure with the big club while he's such a hot commodity.
Dude what? Good Will? You know what builds good will in the Caribbean? Paying the most money for the top prospects.

I agree he should get his shot at the major league rotation off the bat (esp with Gibson not in the hunt) but come on....that is just silly.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 10:07 PM
Deduno's Line for this WBC Championship Win: 5 IP, 2 H, 3 BB, 5K, 76 Pitches thrown, 46 for strikes.....Any of our current starters have a similar line this spring? On an equivalent stage? Methinks he looks like our #1 Starter right now. Maybe he settles in as our #2 or #3 by the end of ST? Congrats to him, his fellow Dominican teammates and his countrymen! Great win for them!

Again not to take away from him, but he got a lot of borderline calls from what I saw and quite a few ugly/early spring swings as well. I think he deserves his shot, I am just not going to get all hot and bothered and call him a #1/#2/#3 until he shows some good games in the majors this year.

I mean keep in mind this was the same tournament that Punto had a .400+ BA and .900+ OPS in....

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 10:08 PM
There is no way possible anyone could like Hendriks over Deduno, ....I still believe he should be in the pen because I just don't see his FB commnd improving...

You more or less just contradicted yourself with those two statements, unless you think an erratic guy in the pen (as you call him yourself) is somehow more valuable then a guy who can stick in the rotation as a #4 or so.

stringer bell
03-19-2013, 10:12 PM
I'll throw a little lukewarm water on the heat over Deduno. It's too early to judge much of anything, but his performance at the WBC was encouraging. Samuel will be 30 this season, so the time is now for him. Let's see what he does in his appearances with the Twins as soon as he returns. Players and teams will be serious from now 'til Opening Days.

Mr. Brooks
03-19-2013, 10:12 PM
You more or less just contradicted yourself with those two statements, unless you think an erratic guy in the pen (as you call him yourself) is somehow more valuable then a guy who can stick in the rotation as a #4 or so.

I think the point is that if Deduno is too erratic to efficiently complete 6+ innings every 5 days, you really have no choice. Its not fair on the bullpen to keep running a guy out that cant get through 4 or 5 innings, even if he's pitching fairly well.

jokin
03-19-2013, 10:21 PM
Dude what? Good Will? You know what builds good will in the Caribbean? Paying the most money for the top prospects.

I agree he should get his shot at the major league rotation off the bat (esp with Gibson not in the hunt) but come on....that is just silly.

Actually, it's not silly at all. I'm sure you know how marketing works. They have control of a guy who will be on the front page of every electronic medium in the Caribbean tomorrow morning. In the DR, they will directly be able to associate Deduno with the MN Twins, the team that gave him a chance to realize every DR kid's dream. It should help to open doors for good intel to the scouting staff and make Deduno a real-life at-large ambassador to the concept of playing in MN. Moving Sano right up the line won't hurt, either. Obviously, we agree that they have to be willing to pony up for the right guys, this just helps get in front of them earlier in the process.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 10:26 PM
Actually, it's not silly at all. I'm sure you know how marketing works. They have control of a guy who will be on the front page of every electronic medium in the Caribbean tomorrow morning. In the DR, they will directly be able to associate Deduno with the MN Twins, the team that gave him a chance to realize every DR kid's dream. It should help to open doors for good intel to the scouting staff and make Deduno a real-life at-large ambassador to the concept of playing in MN. Moving Sano right up the line won't hurt, either. Obviously, we agree that they have to be willing to pony up for the right guys, this just helps get in front of them earlier in the process.
That is a pretty large stretch, national hero or not for the moment that doesn't mean he is suddenly the "star" of the entire Dominican Republic a country which currently makes up 10% of the MLB rosters and 20% of the minor league rosters. Sure, if he continues to kick ass and it continues at the major league level that is accurate, but if he struggles and bounces between AAA and the majors as a #5/#6 type guy (not saying he will do that but it is likely) then are they really going to see him as the sports ambassador to them? Especially when there are about 60 other players in the majors from the DR who are prob better than him and another 300+ on their ways?

I mean Mike Eruzione was a great story for this country and even a "hero" in a "tournament" but did he really do much for the NHL in general?

jokin
03-19-2013, 10:27 PM
I'll throw a little lukewarm water on the heat over Deduno. It's too early to judge much of anything, but his performance at the WBC was encouraging. Samuel will be 30 this season, so the time is now for him. Let's see what he does in his appearances with the Twins as soon as he returns. Players and teams will be serious from now 'til Opening Days.

The tepid water-throwing is well-placed. The main appeal to watching Deduno perform is the Perils of Pauline act, a guy with electric stuff and the FB command of a knuckleballer.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 10:28 PM
I think the point is that if Deduno is too erratic to efficiently complete 6+ innings every 5 days, you really have no choice. Its not fair on the bullpen to keep running a guy out that cant get through 4 or 5 innings, even if he's pitching fairly well.
I agree with you on that, I am just saying how does that make anyone "more into Hendriks" wrong? I mean at this point like I mentioned before I would be thrilled if DeDuno could be a back end guy for us for a couple seasons (by no means ideal) and if he becomes a solid bullpen guy that is ok as well. But Hendriks has the potential and track record that shows he could be a mid rotation guy for a very long time, I don't see why everyone soured over him so much due to a poor start in the majors at age 23.

Mr. Brooks
03-19-2013, 10:28 PM
That is a pretty large stretch, national hero or not for the moment that doesn't mean he is suddenly the "star" of the entire Dominican Republic a country which currently makes up 10% of the MLB rosters and 20% of the minor league rosters. Sure, if he continues to kick ass and it continues at the major league level that is accurate, but if he struggles and bounces between AAA and the majors as a #5/#6 type guy (not saying he will do that but it is likely) then are they really going to see him as the sports ambassador to them? Especially when there are about 60 other players in the majors from the DR who are prob better than him and another 300+ on their ways?

I mean Mike Eruzione was a great story for this country and even a "hero" in a "tournament" but did he really do much for the NHL in general?

Exactly. This guy is from the DR, there are tons of better baseball players for those youngsters to look up to, other than Sam Deduno. Its not like he's from Belguim or France, or somewhere where he is THE guy who has made it to the MLB.

TNTwinsFan
03-19-2013, 10:30 PM
Again not to take away from him, but he got a lot of borderline calls from what I saw and quite a few ugly/early spring swings as well. I think he deserves his shot, I am just not going to get all hot and bothered and call him a #1/#2/#3 until he shows some good games in the majors this year.

I mean keep in mind this was the same tournament that Punto had a .400+ BA and .900+ OPS in....

Dave (and others), I only express optimism driven by almost 6 months of a lack of MLB. That, and the fact that as a red-blooded-'Merican I am compelled and almost feel it my duty to root for the underdog at every possible opportunity. Is Deduno a late bloomer with a #3 ceiling? Is a set up man in the 'pen? Does he completely blow up in the next 2 weeks and we all then reminisce about his amazing performance in the 2013 WBC while continue to debate whether or not he can tighten up his pitches around the strike zone and have someone somewhere work some magic with his "crazy fastball"? I don't want to crown him as the Ace of our staff yet. I just had a brief moment where I think pixie dust was sprinkled into mine eyes and I began flying towards some strange, beautiful star in the night sky...And when I arrived on that star, it wasn't a star at all! It was March in Florida, except EVERY DAY was March in Florida! And all the Twins Starting Pitchers were making each and every batter they faced take a few ugly/early Florida Spring swings! And it was MAGICAL!

Mr. Brooks
03-19-2013, 10:31 PM
I agree with you on that, I am just saying how does that make anyone "more into Hendriks" wrong? I mean at this point like I mentioned before I would be thrilled if DeDuno could be a back end guy for us for a couple seasons (by no means ideal) and if he becomes a solid bullpen guy that is ok as well. But Hendriks has the potential and track record that shows he could be a mid rotation guy for a very long time, I don't see why everyone soured over him so much due to a poor start in the majors at age 23.

No I didnt mean to address the Hendriks v. Deduno aspect of it. I misread his original statement, I didnt realize that was what he was getting at.
I like Hendriks over Deduno. I dont view Deduno as a legit long term starter (sorry, I dont!! I know everyone loves him right now!), and I think Hendriks could be.
That said, give Deduno his shot, its not like we are loaded with better options right now, but give both of them a spot.

TNTwinsFan
03-19-2013, 10:33 PM
Dave (and others), I only express optimism driven by almost 6 months of a lack of MLB. That, and the fact that as a red-blooded-'Merican I am compelled and almost feel it my duty to root for the underdog at every possible opportunity. Is Deduno a late bloomer with a #3 ceiling? Is a set up man in the 'pen? Does he completely blow up in the next 2 weeks and we all then reminisce about his amazing performance in the 2013 WBC while continue to debate whether or not he can tighten up his pitches around the strike zone and have someone somewhere work some magic with his "crazy fastball"? I don't want to crown him as the Ace of our staff yet. I just had a brief moment where I think pixie dust was sprinkled into mine eyes and I began flying towards some strange, beautiful star in the night sky...And when I arrived on that star, it wasn't a star at all! It was March in Florida, except EVERY DAY was March in Florida! And all the Twins Starting Pitchers were making each and every batter they faced take a few ugly/early Florida Spring swings! And it was MAGICAL!

Sorry everyone....that little episode was the product of a Disney World hangover....Please, everyone continue.

kab21
03-19-2013, 10:37 PM
I'm also lukewarm on Deduno but unless Hendriks shows something Deduno should be ahead of him. Unfortunately with Diamond needing extra time Deduno is only the #4 and the Twins still need 1 more starter although that guy can get skipped once or twice in the first month.

Even worse is that Correia is the guy ahead of deduno...

If Pelfrey also needs more time then it's really scary.

Badsmerf
03-19-2013, 10:37 PM
This whole thread makes me want to slam my head against a wall. Deduno is 28 and has been in professional baseball for 8 years!​ Sure, he looked alright against guys flailing away and getting him out of trouble for a few starts. This is nonsense that he suddenly found "it" and will turn his career around. Reasonable expectations. Maybe he did find a little control, lets see him do it for a little while longer before handing him a starting job. If he was taking the place of Correia I would have no problem with it lol...

jokin
03-19-2013, 10:37 PM
That is a pretty large stretch, national hero or not for the moment that doesn't mean he is suddenly the "star" of the entire Dominican Republic a country which currently makes up 10% of the MLB rosters and 20% of the minor league rosters. Sure, if he continues to kick ass and it continues at the major league level that is accurate, but if he struggles and bounces between AAA and the majors as a #5/#6 type guy (not saying he will do that but it is likely) then are they really going to see him as the sports ambassador to them? Especially when there are about 60 other players in the majors from the DR who are prob better than him and another 300+ on their ways?

I mean Mike Eruzione was a great story for this country and even a "hero" in a "tournament" but did he really do much for the NHL in general?

I didn't characterize him as the star of the DR. My thought was to capitalize now, in the moment, put him on the roster now, while he's a hot commodity. You do realize that the comparison to Eruzione is entirely incongruent, right? A microscopically tiny, baseball-centric country that wins the biggest event on the international stage is not the same as a mega-country winning it all in a niche sport. Deduno doesn't have to do another thing the rest of his life and he's still going to be legendary in his country for what was accomplished in the last couple of weeks.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 10:40 PM
A microscopically tiny, baseball-centric country that wins the biggest event on the international stage is not the same as a mega-country winning it all in a niche sport.
Yes, clearly the Miracle on Ice was not a big moment for this "mega-country" what could I possibly be thinking....

Never-mind the fact the Americans were HUGE underdogs in the game against the Ruskies and the Dominicans were the favorite to win this tournament from the jump.... I should know I just made some money off em ;)

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 10:41 PM
I'm also lukewarm on Deduno but unless Hendriks shows something Deduno should be ahead of him. Unfortunately with Diamond needing extra time Deduno is only the #4 and the Twins still need 1 more starter although that guy can get skipped once or twice in the first month.

Even worse is that Correia is the guy ahead of deduno...

If Pelfrey also needs more time then it's really scary.
I'm not saying DeDuno shouldn't be ahead of him for a spot this season out of spring training, but in general I am more "excited" about Hendriks potential for this team moving forward then DeDuno.

stringer bell
03-19-2013, 10:42 PM
This whole thread makes me want to slam my head against a wall. Deduno is 28 and has been in professional baseball for 8 years!​ Sure, he looked alright against guys flailing away and getting him out of trouble for a few starts. This is nonsense that he suddenly found "it" and will turn his career around. Reasonable expectations. Maybe he did find a little control, lets see him do it for a little while longer before handing him a starting job. If he was taking the place of Correia I would have no problem with it lol...Born in July of '83, so he'll be 30 this year.

jokin
03-19-2013, 10:49 PM
I agree with you on that, I am just saying how does that make anyone "more into Hendriks" wrong? I mean at this point like I mentioned before I would be thrilled if DeDuno could be a back end guy for us for a couple seasons (by no means ideal) and if he becomes a solid bullpen guy that is ok as well. But Hendriks has the potential and track record that shows he could be a mid rotation guy for a very long time, I don't see why everyone soured over him so much due to a poor start in the majors at age 23.

Evidently, everyone lives in the moment. Guys without incredible stuff usually struggle, some for quite some time, before they settle in. Even Greg Maddux was horrible in his first 2 years in the majors. The panic button that some posters are placing on Hendriks' performance thus far is not well-thought out, especially for a guy coming in from another culture.

If the Twins get 2 years of back-end 1-2 WAR starting pitcher performance from Deduno, they should be giddy ( by comparison, Dan Haren had a 1.8 WAR in 2012, finishing 25th among AL pitchers).

jokin
03-19-2013, 11:00 PM
Yes, clearly the Miracle on Ice was not a big moment for this "mega-country" what could I possibly be thinking....

Never-mind the fact the Americans were HUGE underdogs in the game against the Ruskies and the Dominicans were the favorite to win this tournament from the jump.... I should know I just made some money off em ;)

Now you're arguing just to be arguing. The DR was eliminated in 2009 by the Netherlands in the opening round- the whole country was primed to make amends for that blunder. How did your bet go that year?

I'm sure you're aware that the US had won the Gold Medal in hockey before 1980. You probably also knew that our country (yes, it is a mega-country, 315.5 Million, 3rd largest in the world) has won a boatload of medals- in every significant sport- at every international event. The DR, population 10 Million? Not so much.

Lesser Dali
03-19-2013, 11:01 PM
In my opinion the WBC is legit. It brings out some cool energy you do not often get to see during the MLB regular season. The Dominican Republic played with an uber amount of guts and glory and Deduno was definitely one of forefront participants.

I have to believe that Deduno is the leader in the mix for one of the last starting rotation spots. If he is not, that just means that the Twin's Organization was not watching.

A great hope of mine is that Deduno takes a good amount of his swagger from playing with the DR and brings it to the Twin's clubhouse.

Maybe the WBC is the infusion of good juju Deduno needs to spin his career upwards.

Fingers crossed

jokin
03-19-2013, 11:03 PM
In my opinion the WBC is legit. It brings out some cool energy you do not often get to see during the MLB regular season. The Dominican Republic played with an uber amount of guts and glory and Deduno was definitely one of forefront participants.

I have to believe that Deduno is the leader in the mix for one of the last starting rotation spots. If he is not, that just means that the Twin's Organization was not watching.

A great hope of mine is that Deduno takes a good amount of his swagger from playing with the DR and brings it to the Twin's clubhouse.

Maybe the WBC is the infusion of good juju Deduno needs to spin his career upwards.

Fingers crossed

If Gardy has his way, he's gonna knock that good juju right out of Deduno's swagger, right quick!

Lesser Dali
03-19-2013, 11:11 PM
If Gardy has his way, he's gonna knock that good juju right out of Deduno's swagger, right quick!

That thought has definitely crossed my mind.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 11:22 PM
If Gardy has his way, he's gonna knock that good juju right out of Deduno's swagger, right quick!

Ah yes, another needless shot at Gardy for no reason. /Yawn

glunn
03-19-2013, 11:26 PM
Can we all at least agree that Deduno's slider is a superior "out" pitch?

I like Hendriks, but unless he develops an "out" pitch (or a Radke level of control), I fear that he is not going to be very successful.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 11:27 PM
Now you're arguing just to be arguing. The DR was eliminated in 2009 by the Netherlands in the opening round- the whole country was primed to make amends for that blunder. How did your bet go that year?

I'm sure you're aware that the US had won the Gold Medal in hockey before 1980. You probably also knew that our country (yes, it is a mega-country, 315.5 Million, 3rd largest in the world) has won a boatload of medals- in every significant sport- at every international event. The DR, population 10 Million? Not so much.
Yes, I am well versed in US Hockey history, it is also worth nothing that the Russians had completely and utterly DOMINATED International hockey for the 20 years prior to the 1980 Olympics, you clearly have zero idea what you are talking about on this topic...you know what actually, it really isn't worth arguing with you on this topic, or in general. Now to just find that ignore list...

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 11:31 PM
Can we all at least agree that Deduno's slider is a superior "out" pitch?

I like Hendriks, but unless he develops an "out" pitch (or a Radke level of control), I fear that he is not going to be very successful.

The problem is an out pitch is only good for you when you can get two strikes on a guy, and if 8 years of professional baseball has taught us DeDuno has struggled with that. Also Hendriks doesn't need "radke" like control to be successful, yeah he doesn't have some great out pitch but he has a general pretty good arsenal to begin with, also he did pretty well in AAA as well last year as a 23 year old (6.9 k/9 isn't elite but not awful either). Sure if he gets a better out pitch or "radke" like control he becomes better, but that places him in the #2 range instead of his current career trajectory of a #3 or #4 starter in the majors.

Lesser Dali
03-19-2013, 11:36 PM
Can we all at least agree that Deduno's slider is a superior "out" pitch?

I like Hendriks, but unless he develops an "out" pitch (or a Radke level of control), I fear that he is not going to be very successful.

I have two horses - their names are Sam and Liam. If I was a cowboy and I needed to go wrangle some renegade cattle, right now Sam is the horse I would choose to ride to execute my objective.

glunn
03-19-2013, 11:49 PM
The problem is an out pitch is only good for you when you can get two strikes on a guy, and if 8 years of professional baseball has taught us DeDuno has struggled with that. Also Hendriks doesn't need "radke" like control to be successful, yeah he doesn't have some great out pitch but he has a general pretty good arsenal to begin with, also he did pretty well in AAA as well last year as a 23 year old (6.9 k/9 isn't elite but not awful either). Sure if he gets a better out pitch or "radke" like control he becomes better, but that places him in the #2 range instead of his current career trajectory of a #3 or #4 starter in the majors.

Dave, I agree that Deduno has struggled with control during his entire career and that an "out pitch" by itself is not enough. On the other hand, it seems to me that in general the Twins pitching staff lacks outstanding "stuff", and that Deduno's slider could win a lot of games if he can continue to improve his control.

As for Hendriks, I agree that 6.9 K/9 at Rochester last season was promising . And I think that he has superior contrl. But Baseball Reference shows only 5.5 K/9 over 108.2 innings in his two years in the majors, and it seemed to me that last season teams were figuring him out. I hope that you are correct that he can be a #3 or #4, but I doubt that this will happen without a significant improvement in at least one of his pitches.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-19-2013, 11:55 PM
Hendriks is only 23 years old, DeDuno is 29 years old.

It isn't impossible for DeDuno to suddenly "find it" but it is pretty rare, (Whcih is why I said I would be thrilled if he could be a back end guy for a year or two). Hendriks is still plenty young, there is zero reason why he shouldn't be expected to improve.

We can point out Hendriks k/9 in his very short major league career, but it should be noted that in DeDuno's season last year he had a 1.09 k/bb ratio and a 1.544 WHIP that frankly is not going to get it done, and a few innings in the middle of march isn't going to suddenly sell me on the idea that he is a better bet in the future then hendriks.

I'm sure his "out pitch" looked a lot better in mid march when players are barely out of spring training then it will in the middle of April and into May once players are back to normal.

notoriousgod71
03-19-2013, 11:59 PM
Deduno is at least not an exact clone of every other pitcher we have. I'll go with him. Hendricks just hasn't gotten high caliber hitters out at any point.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-20-2013, 12:07 AM
Don't take my word for it, Go check out what the experts say about 2013 in regards to Hendriks vs DeDuno, you know that Bill James guy? I heard he is pretty smart, him and the other top projection guys ALL have Hendriks outperforming DeDuno this year. As Hendriks continues to progress and DeDuno continues to get further away from his "prime years" look for the discrepancy to grow and grow and grow...

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-20-2013, 12:10 AM
Deduno is at least not an exact clone of every other pitcher we have. I'll go with him. Hendricks just hasn't gotten high caliber hitters out at any point.
Shooter Hunt wasn't a clone either, he was exciting no doubt but he walked to many people. Obviously DeDuno isn't a hunt clone, but it should be noted that strikeouts!!! aren't everything, esp when you are walking a ton of guys to.

Hendriks did very well in AAA last year as a 23 year old, I get that he struggled in his cup in the majors last year, but its a little silly so say he hasn't gotten "high caliber hitters" out at any point.

Lesser Dali
03-20-2013, 12:16 AM
From my perspective Hendrick's plays out to be a #4 starter. Deduno, although advanced in age, seemingly has more upside as his "stuff" is wicked, whether he can control it or not.

In 2013 the Twins have nothing to lose on taking chances. Given the circumstance, I believe Deduno should take presendence over Hendriks. Hendriks will eventually get his day in the sun.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-20-2013, 12:23 AM
From my perspective Hendrick's plays out to be a #4 starter. Deduno, although advanced in age, seemingly has more upside as his "stuff" is wicked, whether he can control it or not.

In 2013 the Twins have nothing to lose on taking chances. Given the circumstance, I believe Deduno should take presendence over Hendriks. Hendriks will eventually get his day in the sun.

This was never about 2013 in a bottle it was about "the future" and that anyone who was more excited about Hendriks future on this club over DeDuno was wrong or whatever the guy said.

It's really not worth arguing though at this point as clearly people want to get all crazy over an insanely short sample size, I will take the hundreds upon hundreds of previous regular season innings, along with the experts takes and the fact that 23 year olds progress at a much higher rate then 29 year olds over a "nice story" of less than 20 innings pitched in the middle of march.

Also like I said early on in this thread, I really hope DeDuno can become a #4/#5 for this team for a couple years, in reality that most likely won't happen and is the absolute ceiling for him at this point, unless he magically learns at the age of 29 how to get the ball over the plate significantly more and cuts his walk rate in half.

jokin
03-20-2013, 12:31 AM
Yes, I am well versed in US Hockey history, it is also worth nothing that the Russians had completely and utterly DOMINATED International hockey for the 20 years prior to the 1980 Olympics, you clearly have zero idea what you are talking about on this topic...you know what actually, it really isn't worth arguing with you on this topic, or in general. Now to just find that ignore list...

You keep searching for that ignore button, but apparently never know how to keep it working. Believe it or not, I am well aware that the Russians dominated international hockey for 20 years, so no, it is far from "clear that I have zero idea on the topic." Obviously, it was a big deal to win the Olympics in 1980, with the backdrop of the Cold War. But it wasn't the first time it had happened. And just for your information, only 10.3% of the players in the NHL in 1980 were Americans and the 5 from the team that did make it on American NHL teams were marketed for their Olympic hero status, even the bust, Jim Craig. The percentage of Americans in the NHL has now grown to 23.2%, so the generic good will for hockey that was established by the win in 1980 carried over to greater participative interest. Of course, to that point in time, the US had dominated in most every other significant sport for much of the 20th Century, so the sport became just a bigger piece of the mosaic.

But you missed the entire point in your original analogy. The tiny DR, with a paltry-poverty-stricken GDP per capita of $9400, has one true passion, one truly national sport, one primary color in its national sporting tableau- and its very first significant victory on the international stage! Baseball is their primary means of expressing themselves on that world stage, and have a rich history of doing just that. Deduno is now a part of it, a tiny nation with very little going for it- and deservedly proud of its conquering heros- can associate their newest baseball hero with the WBC- and the MN Twins.

jokin
03-20-2013, 12:35 AM
Ah yes, another needless shot at Gardy for no reason. /Yawn

Needless, perhaps. To the point, positively. Sorry for making you too sleepy to find that ignore button.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-20-2013, 12:42 AM
From my perspective Hendrick's plays out to be a #4 starter. Deduno, although advanced in age, seemingly has more upside as his "stuff" is wicked, whether he can control it or not.

In 2013 the Twins have nothing to lose on taking chances. Given the circumstance, I believe Deduno should take presendence over Hendriks. Hendriks will eventually get his day in the sun.

Also to be honest, DeDuno and Hendriks are both going to get plenty of chances this year, especially with Diamond not close to ready and the inevitable DL stint/Suckitude from multiple other rotation members.

Honestly its sorta the same thing as someone saying Colabelro (spelling error behind belief) being a better future guy for this team then Parmelee due to a "hot spring" or whatever.

In a perfect world both contribute to this team next year, but the reality is everything else suggests that Hendriks is the "horse to bet" on moving forward.

jokin
03-20-2013, 12:43 AM
Dave, I agree that Deduno has struggled with control during his entire career and that an "out pitch" by itself is not enough. On the other hand, it seems to me that in general the Twins pitching staff lacks outstanding "stuff", and that Deduno's slider could win a lot of games if he can continue to improve his control.

As for Hendriks, I agree that 6.9 K/9 at Rochester last season was promising . And I think that he has superior contrl. But Baseball Reference shows only 5.5 K/9 over 108.2 innings in his two years in the majors, and it seemed to me that last season teams were figuring him out. I hope that you are correct that he can be a #3 or #4, but I doubt that this will happen without a significant improvement in at least one of his pitches.

Again, not saying he's the next Greg Maddux, but Maddux was awful his first 2 years. Maddux's K/9 his first 2 seasons was 5.8, but Mr Pinpoint Control had a BB/9 rate of 4.3! (Versus Hendrik's BB/9 of 2.7). Based on his strong minor league success, you gotta think Hendriks will continue to get better at building confidence in more effectively attacking the corners and continuing to develop his secondary stuff.

glunn
03-20-2013, 01:30 AM
Again, not saying he's the next Greg Maddux, but Maddux was awful his first 2 years. Maddux's K/9 his first 2 seasons was 5.8, but Mr Pinpoint Control had a BB/9 rate of 4.3! (Versus Hendrik's BB/9 of 2.7). Based on his strong minor league success, you gotta think Hendriks will continue to get better at building confidence in more effectively attacking the corners and continuing to develop his secondary stuff.

What you are saying makes a lot of sense to me. I agree that if Hendriks can improve as you have suggested, then Hendriks could be a solid starter. Even if this takes another year or two, it's not as if the Twins have a lot of great alternatives. I am now curious as to what Maddux used as his "out" pitch, or whether he succeeded mainly based on working the corners and keeping the ball down.

jokin
03-20-2013, 01:55 AM
What you are saying makes a lot of sense to me. I agree that if Hendriks can improve as you have suggested, then Hendriks could be a solid starter. Even if this takes another year or two, it's not as if the Twins have a lot of great alternatives. I am now curious as to what Maddux used as his "out" pitch, or whether he succeeded mainly based on working the corners and keeping the ball down.

I remember watching him coming up to the Cubs in the 80s. When he first came up, I was wondering, how do you waste such a high draft pick on someone with no velocity and not a lot of movement- and in this hitter's park? Then, in year 3 he started having success and the running joke was that he was doing it with mirrors. But what he always had was that ability to put the ball where the catcher set the mitt. And the mitt was usually low and outside, but whereever it was set, Maddux hit it. Umpires grew to love it. His outfielders loved it too, as they could basically take the day off as hitters constantly turned over on barely hittable pitches away or foolishly swung for the fences. It seemed like the Cardinals were the only team that figured Mad Dog out- go with the pitch the other way and settle for the single. Of course, just as he was ready to go on his serious HOF run, the Cubs screwed it up again and lost him to the Braves in FA.

Riverbrian
03-20-2013, 07:05 AM
I'm not sure how Deduno looking sharp means that Hendriks is no good but whatever. lol

When it comes to Deduno last night... 2 of his 3 walks came in the 5th inning in the rain and a sliding foot strike. I'm not sure who here has pitched in similiar conditions but when your lead foot slides... It messes you up.

I'm not saying his control is fixed but to those who keep bringing it up... I'd like to point out that if you didn't know he had control issues and watched him pitch last night for the first time... you wouldnt assume control issues. He was sharp.

Control is being accentuated because of his past. Let him put the baggage down. We just might have something here.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-20-2013, 07:45 AM
The problem is 15 good innings in March doesn't make up for the 860+ professional innings he has logged which clearly show he has "control" issues.

Mr. Brooks
03-20-2013, 07:52 AM
Wow.
The Miracle on Ice is near the top, or at the top of every single list of greatest sports moments in history.
For someone to think that the DR winning the WBC is even close to that level is pretty short sighted, IMO.

mike wants wins
03-20-2013, 08:11 AM
If you are the DR, I'd say this is more important than the miracle on ice.....heck, if you are a lot of the rest of the world it probably is.

jokin
03-20-2013, 08:17 AM
Wow.
The Miracle on Ice is near the top, or at the top of every single list of greatest sports moments in history.
For someone to think that the DR winning the WBC is even close to that level is pretty short sighted, IMO.


Wow. Time to think a little more globally Mr.(Herb?) Brooks? I sincerely doubt that there is even one "someone" in the DR who either, has ever heard of the miracle on ice, or if they did, cares one fig about it.

Mr. Brooks
03-20-2013, 08:19 AM
If you are the DR, I'd say this is more important than the miracle on ice.....heck, if you are a lot of the rest of the world it probably is.

The DR is supposed to win!
I would equate this with the Dream Team from basketball.
Everyone was happy and excite to see a bunch of great players win when they should have won. But its nowhere near the level of the Miracle on Ice. There is a reason the MOI is still remembered 30+ years later. You can say "Miracle on Ice" to just about anyone on the street, and they will know what you are talking about.
I would be shocked if 30 years from now, people of the DR are still talking about winning the 2013 WBC.
The Miracle on Ice is not just about winning a hockey tournament.
It was about a bunch of rag tag guys who were thrown together, barely had any time to play together, and were not given any chance of winning, beating a powerhouse team who had lived, trained, and played together for years.
It was also political. A huge part of the legend of the MOI is the cold war aspect to it. This WBC win for the DR just doesnt have any of those additional elements.
I'm sure its great for the people of that country. I'm sure they will party and celebrate and be proud. But in the end its a baseball tournament, with no external ramifications, that they should have won, and 30 years from now it will hardly be mentioned, if at all.

Mr. Brooks
03-20-2013, 08:20 AM
Wow. Time to think a little more globally Mr.(Herb?) Brooks? I sincerely doubt that there is even one "someone" in the DR who either, has ever heard of the miracle on ice, or if they did, cares one fig about it.

Right, this little thing called the Cold War was not global at all. Silly me.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-20-2013, 08:29 AM
:banghead:

jokin
03-20-2013, 08:47 AM
Right, this little thing called the Cold War was not global at all. Silly me.

Oh yeah, the two superpowers blustering at each other and messing around with every little country to gain "influence". Of course, our meddling in the Dominican affairs began way before the actual Cold War. We occupied the country from 1916-1924- the DR citizens had such a soft spot for the US from that naked agression, they began a guerilla war that simmered off and on well throughout much of the 20th Century. Of course, when the initial guerilla war was finally repelled, the US government installed military strongman and former convicted thief, forger and pimp, Rafael Trajillo in as president as the result of a rigged election. At the time the US State Department warned that "Trujillo is a kind of Frankenstein, brought to life by the US Marines" and likely to spawn new insurrections. Through America's maintainence of the control of all customs duties and trade for the country and an amazing ability to "look the other way"- "Trujillo's political corruption, military muscle, torture, murder, nepotism, commercial monopolies and raids on the country's national treasury enabled Trujillo to quiet his opponents and amass a fortune of $800 million." The "beloved" President-for-Life (or as long as the US supported him) Trujillo was finally assassinated in 1961, causing yet more domestic instability, resulting in the next US invasion and occupation of the country in 1965-66, ultimately leading to the installation of another former Trujillo puppet and anti-democratic strongman, Joaquin Balager, who ruthlessly ruled the country into the late 1980s.


So yeah, I'd say the handful of people of the DR who had any awareness of Olympic hockey (no cable TV on the island in 1980) either didn't care or were less than inclined to wave the American flag and shout "USA" in the streets of Santo Domingo.

jokin
03-20-2013, 08:51 AM
I'm sure its great for the people of that country. I'm sure they will party and celebrate and be proud. But in the end its a baseball tournament, with no external ramifications, that they should have won, and 30 years from now it will hardly be mentioned, if at all.

And people wonder why the image of "The Ugly American" still regins supreme around the globe. Not too condescending, are we?

Badsmerf
03-20-2013, 09:19 AM
And people wonder why the image of "The Ugly American" still regins supreme around the globe. Not too condescending, are we?
Really? The hate against Americans has to do with belittling a baseball tournament in which the top players for each country don't even play? This isn't the FIFA World Cup. This tournament is in it's infancy and will hopefully keep growing. The USA vs. USSR Semifinal was much more of a global and significant event. They are incomparable in their magnitude on history, denying this is naive.

I'm sure the people of the Dominicana are extremely proud of it, and they should be. It was a great tournament and a testament to their success in baseball. Lets not take anything away from them by not putting this tournament on the same level.

Hopefully this tournament gains popularity globally and can be put in the same sentence. Right now, as evidence by participating teams and results, the Americas and Japan dominate baseball. The Netherlands, Italy, and Korea have all had positive presence in the WBC so far. Hopefully this leads to more interest in baseball from other countries. Europe has been slow to embrace baseball. Partially, I'm glad the USA isn't winning this tournament consistently (or ever lol). To me, it provides more motivation to other countries to get involved.

3up3down
03-20-2013, 09:24 AM
spiritofvodka, I dont think I contradicted myself, my opinion of Hendriks hasnt changed..with Deduno if he is in the rotation or pen doesnt matter to me , I just believe he offers something to the team & I honestly think Hendriks offers nothing..

ThePuck
03-20-2013, 09:39 AM
And people wonder why the image of "The Ugly American" still regins supreme around the globe. Not too condescending, are we?

I read the post you quoted 5 times and I still don't see how you say that in response to his post. And this is coming from a guy who has been all over the world and had to break down that stereotype.

jokin
03-20-2013, 09:40 AM
Really? The hate against Americans has to do with belittling a baseball tournament in which the top players for each country don't even play? This isn't the FIFA World Cup. This tournament is in it's infancy and will hopefully keep growing. The USA vs. USSR Semifinal was much more of a global and significant event. They are incomparable in their magnitude on history, denying this is naive.

I'm sure the people of the Dominicana are extremely proud of it, and they should be. It was a great tournament and a testament to their success in baseball. Lets not take anything away from them by not putting this tournament on the same level.

Hopefully this tournament gains popularity globally and can be put in the same sentence. Right now, as evidence by participating teams and results, the Americas and Japan dominate baseball. The Netherlands, Italy, and Korea have all had positive presence in the WBC so far. Hopefully this leads to more interest in baseball from other countries. Europe has been slow to embrace baseball. Partially, I'm glad the USA isn't winning this tournament consistently (or ever lol). To me, it provides more motivation to other countries to get involved.

Smerf, I never said that the Olympic win wasn't important to the US. I've never "denied" anything of the sort. I did say that it most certainly wasn't particularly important whatsover to the citizens of the DR. There's a reason that most of the geographical world was/is called "Third" or Non-Aligned- they generally didn't care who happened to win a Winter Olympic event. And in a country like the DR, with such a tortured relationship with the US, it's likely the few average citizens that did care would support anyone, except the US.

You can put any tournament, in any sport, at any level you want and ascribe it the "importance" you deem obvious to us in the First World, and it won't make a bit of difference to the Dominicans, who just might be presumptuos enough to ascribe their own sense of importance to the things that they actually value. The country is baseball-centric and baseball-crazy. "Ice" is truly an alien concept in a country that has average high temps in the 80s all year round and average lows in the low 70s and high 60s.

This thread derailment has obscured my initial point and dovetails nicely with your post, Smerf. I merely said that the Twins are in a good position to garner some goodwill in the Dominican victorious afterglow, after accomplishing something unprecedented and important to them in their history- just not our history. Maybe it won't be a fond memory to them in 30 years, but that was hardly the point.

jokin
03-20-2013, 09:49 AM
I read the post you quoted 5 times and I still don't see how you say that in response to his post. And this is coming from a guy who has been all over the world and had to break down that stereotype.

Because he dealt with the subject matter entirely from the US point of view and verbally patted the Domincans on the head? This is a tiny, impoverished country and we are telling them how they should feel about the victory they committed to for the last 4 years after their WBC humiliation in 2009? The tone taken is much akin to the imperialistic tone taken towards the country in the 20th Century.

kab21
03-20-2013, 10:34 AM
A lot of this Deduno talk was also said about Blackburn in 2009 at the all-star break. He had a 3.00 ERA and possessed this magical ability to induce weak contact. Of course he didn't have the ability to actually miss bats. He had also shut down a few teams at 'clutch' times and was regarded by some as a big game pitcher. He will get his chance this season because the other options suck also and I think he makes a great story but I have no expectations of success from him.

USAFChief
03-20-2013, 10:36 AM
Also to be honest, DeDuno and Hendriks are both going to get plenty of chances this year... Yup. Settle down people. These things have a way of working themselves out. Truth be told, I'm not real optimistic that either will be a long term asset to the rotation, but both will have the opportunity to prove me wrong over the course of the coming season.

ThePuck
03-20-2013, 11:13 AM
Because he dealt with the subject matter entirely from the US point of view and verbally patted the Domincans on the head?

Yeah, I didn't get that vibe from the part he wrote and you quoted.

PopRiveter
03-20-2013, 11:44 AM
Deduno is a lot of fun to watch. For that reason, I want him to make the rotation.

Hendriks has moved fast through the org and has shown an ability to figure out how to succeed at each level along the way. At age 23, he's certainly not struggled long enough for me to give up hope that he'll figure out how to succeed in the majors. For that reason, I want to watch him pitch this year and am confident he will. Even he gets the ball rolling at AAA and comes up to replace DeCorrewaltfrey. Or maybe even Deduno.

There seems to be a lot of arguing one vs. the other in this thread. These are two very different pieces. We're trying to compare an apple with a taco salad.

Mr. Brooks
03-20-2013, 12:26 PM
Um, just to be clear I wasnt claiming that the Miracle on Ice would be more remembered in the DR than this WBC win. Obviously that wouldnt be the case.
I was saying the MOI is more remembered HERE, than this WBC win will be remembered there, 30+ years from now.

And yeah, I'm sure the reason the world hates America is because I dont think this win will be remembered as universally to them, as the MOI is to us. What an evil person I am, for having that opinion.

fairweather
03-20-2013, 01:07 PM
You want Hendriks to get better? Try letting someone besides Mauer catch for him.

ThePuck
03-20-2013, 02:54 PM
You want Hendriks to get better? Try letting someone besides Mauer catch for him.

yeah, let's see. With Mauer catching Hendricks his ERA was 3.86. With Doumit it was 7.94 and with Butera it 6.59.

Nick Nelson
03-20-2013, 03:45 PM
Sounds like Gardy took the words right out of my mouth: https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/314485911041761280

LaBombo
03-20-2013, 06:10 PM
yeah, let's see. With Mauer catching Hendricks his ERA was 3.86. With Doumit it was 7.94 and with Butera it 6.59.

Forget it, he's on a roll...

http://www.myteespot.com/images/Images_d/DSCF0726.jpg