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Parker Hageman
03-17-2013, 11:09 PM
The Minnesota Twins 2013 Media Guide says that the newly acquired Vance Worley tips the scales at 230. That number is actually closer to 250, writes the Pioneer Press’s Mike Berardino (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_22812207/minnesota-twins-pitcher-vance-worley-hopes-less-is). This, however, is actually ten pounds lighter than when he was last in a Phillies’ uniform.

In season, Worley said, the weight gain accelerates. Temptations of the team’s post-game spreads often lure him in and that may have an on-field effect:


"I notice my mechanics get out of sync if I'm a little heaver," he said. "When I lift my leg, I don't always come back around when I'm heavier. I just kind of fall with it.”

His spring stats, as meaningless as they are, have not been favorable. In 12 innings, he’s surrendered 19 hits including two home runs.

Worley has been cutting back in his meal planning, thanks to assistance from his new fiancée, but, like most of us in this community, enjoys eating.


"You can't do anything about it," he said. "Everybody's genetics are different. There's guys that can just crush the worst food possible and look shredded, and I'm like, 'You are so lucky, dude.' I'm going to try, but nobody wants a salad, you know?"

True that, Vanimal. True that.

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 11:52 AM
I think someone ought to tell Worley that calories in is not the only part of the equation.
This guy spent a couple years around Roy Halladay, and didnt learn anything about conditioning?
I can see now why the Phillies were so eager to trade him.
Hopefully May develops into a solid starter.

70charger
03-18-2013, 12:04 PM
That's really harsh, and not very fair.

He has a hard time with his weight. Big deal. He'll figure it out.

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 12:11 PM
When a guy is using his body to make a ton of money, I dont think its harsh at all to have an expectation that he be a professional and do whatever it takes to keep himself in optimum conditioning to get the job done to the best of his abilities.
The guy admits that his weight has an adverse effect on his performance, but then dismisses his responsibility with a statement like, "nothing i can do about it."
Uh, yeah there is.
Google 'roy halladay conditioning routine' once, it can be done.
He seems to have the attitude that NOBODY has to work at it, that the guys in great shape were just born that way.
Sure, a small percentage are lucky and were, but most are in that shape because they have insane workout and conditioning routines.

I've read articles where he has the same laissez-faire attitude regarding his secondary pitches.
When a team is so eager to trade him and a pretty good prospect, this type of thing raises a bit of a red flag as to why the Phillies were so quick to give up on him.

Highabove
03-18-2013, 01:56 PM
This topic was brought up by the Media and is fair game. Brooks makes some good points. I guess cheap shots still exist on this forum.

ashburyjohn
03-18-2013, 02:25 PM
Vance has a real chance of sitting in a barcalounger at age 31 wondering what the heck happened to his career. I hope his future self can come back and tap him on the shoulder and give him some guidance.

StormJH1
03-18-2013, 04:06 PM
I really struggle with the weight issue when it comes to pitchers. With position players (unless they're DH's), yes, there are some clear-cut arguments as to how a slimmer player can be better in the field and quicker on the basepaths (it seemed to help 2010 Delmon Young). But I also think there's a lot of jealousy issues involved where regular fans get mad at baseball players who make thousands/millions of dollars to be professional athletes, yet appear to be in worse physical condition than the average dude with a treadmill at home.

By and large, pitchers need to throw baseballs hard and accurately, and repeat their motion. That's about it. Taking off tons of weight could improve pitcher stamina, but it might also majorly screw up his mechanics and weight transfer. Boof Bonser is an example that comes to mind. He might have failed as a pitcher anyway, but he came back from a fairly successful year having shed a ton of weight and was never good again.

Lance Lynn of the Cardinals was a terrific pitcher last year, and he reportedly lost 40 pounds in the offseason. Now, he's apparently have control issues he never had before because parts of his arm that might have been resting against something before are hanging free in the air, and things just feel different.

The Vance Worley we acquired managed to make himself into a serviceable MLB pitcher at the weight he was at. Obviously I want him to be successful, but I can't say for a pitcher that losing weight necessarily makes things better. And it could actually make them worse.

Willihammer
03-18-2013, 04:20 PM
Its an interesting question. There doesn't appear to be a lot of good research on the topic. My first thought is that, pitching is hard work. Pitching 7+ innings is exhausting work. So being fit might not directly help a pitcher stay effective deeper into ballgames, but it almost certainly wouldn't hurt, and could very easily help.

Worley has already demonstrated difficulty retiring hitters in the 3rd and 4th trip through the order. This might be due to his limited arsenal, but it might also be the result of just getting tired.

mcrow
03-18-2013, 04:45 PM
I think if you are a professional athlete you should keep yourself in shape. However, if it doesn't affect play it's not that big of a deal. Some guys can do fine while overweight others can't. By Kevin's own words he's not as good when heavy so he needs to figure it out.

I know one thing, my range of motion on every thing has increased a lot since losing 40 pounds and I am no doubt more flexible in the hips, waist and legs which would be important if I could pitch.:o

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 06:35 PM
I really struggle with the weight issue when it comes to pitchers. With position players (unless they're DH's), yes, there are some clear-cut arguments as to how a slimmer player can be better in the field and quicker on the basepaths (it seemed to help 2010 Delmon Young). But I also think there's a lot of jealousy issues involved where regular fans get mad at baseball players who make thousands/millions of dollars to be professional athletes, yet appear to be in worse physical condition than the average dude with a treadmill at home.

By and large, pitchers need to throw baseballs hard and accurately, and repeat their motion. That's about it. Taking off tons of weight could improve pitcher stamina, but it might also majorly screw up his mechanics and weight transfer. Boof Bonser is an example that comes to mind. He might have failed as a pitcher anyway, but he came back from a fairly successful year having shed a ton of weight and was never good again.

Lance Lynn of the Cardinals was a terrific pitcher last year, and he reportedly lost 40 pounds in the offseason. Now, he's apparently have control issues he never had before because parts of his arm that might have been resting against something before are hanging free in the air, and things just feel different.

The Vance Worley we acquired managed to make himself into a serviceable MLB pitcher at the weight he was at. Obviously I want him to be successful, but I can't say for a pitcher that losing weight necessarily makes things better. And it could actually make them worse.

Did you even read the article?
Worley himself states that his weight screws with his mechanics when its not under control. That was the ENTIRE point of my argument.
I could care less what kind of shape a guy is in if its not negatively affecting his performance.
My problem was him admitting that it hurts his performance, then shrugging it off with the comment, "but, nothing I can do about that."
It was much more his attitude that I have a problem with than any weight issue.

diehardtwinsfan
03-18-2013, 06:37 PM
I really struggle with the weight issue when it comes to pitchers. With position players (unless they're DH's), yes, there are some clear-cut arguments as to how a slimmer player can be better in the field and quicker on the basepaths (it seemed to help 2010 Delmon Young). But I also think there's a lot of jealousy issues involved where regular fans get mad at baseball players who make thousands/millions of dollars to be professional athletes, yet appear to be in worse physical condition than the average dude with a treadmill at home.

By and large, pitchers need to throw baseballs hard and accurately, and repeat their motion. That's about it. Taking off tons of weight could improve pitcher stamina, but it might also majorly screw up his mechanics and weight transfer. Boof Bonser is an example that comes to mind. He might have failed as a pitcher anyway, but he came back from a fairly successful year having shed a ton of weight and was never good again.

Lance Lynn of the Cardinals was a terrific pitcher last year, and he reportedly lost 40 pounds in the offseason. Now, he's apparently have control issues he never had before because parts of his arm that might have been resting against something before are hanging free in the air, and things just feel different.

The Vance Worley we acquired managed to make himself into a serviceable MLB pitcher at the weight he was at. Obviously I want him to be successful, but I can't say for a pitcher that losing weight necessarily makes things better. And it could actually make them worse.

As others have stated, there isn't a ton of research on this, though I seem to remember reading that there was enough evidence to challenge the idea that pitchers must be fit. Some of have suggested that some extra weight may be beneficial for pitchers... I'm not really for or against it either way. If Vance thought the extra weight was not helpful, then he is wise to lose it.

Oxtung
03-18-2013, 09:11 PM
Did you guys complaining about Worley's weight and attitude even read the article?

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 09:29 PM
Did you guys complaining about Worley's weight and attitude even read the article?

Again, I dont have a problem with his weight, per se.
Its his attitude about it that I question.

And yeah, I read the article, what are you getting at?

Here is the synopsis of it:
He likes to eat a lot of food, because he was raised to keep eating even after he was full.
Sometimes he watches what he eats, but sometimes he just cant say no.
In the entire article he talks a lot about food, but only once brings up what, to most of us, is the obvious second part of the equation: exercise. He details a work out routine that seems pretty relaxed for most professional athletes.
Perhaps he's just being modest, but he doesnt exactly describe a Roy Halladay/Jerry Rice/Bo Jackson level of intensity to his workouts.
He mentions the Phillies had provided him a nutritionist, but then mentions that he hasnt bothered to call her, or find a new one, since the trade.
He admits that it messes up his mechanics when he gets too heavy.
Then finally he passes the buck saying you cant do anything about it, its just the way I was born.
What did I miss?

Look, I'm not saying, "OMG, this guy is a bust! He's going to fail! Why would you trade for this fat lazy slob!"
Despite my criticism (or perhaps its why I criticize him), I really like Worley. I liked him in Philly, was more excited that we got him than I was about May.
I'm just saying, I always wondered why Philly would bail on him so fast. My first thought was maybe they know something about the elbow that we dont, but after being disappointed with his dismissive attitude regarding his secondary pitches, and now reading this, I just cant help but wonder if this played a part in their decision.
I cant help but notice a sharp contrast between this article, and the article interviewing Trevor May, where May talks about how awesome it was to be around Halladay, and how much Halladay motivated him and inspired him to work just as hard.

Oxtung
03-18-2013, 11:59 PM
Again, I dont have a problem with his weight, per se.
Its his attitude about it that I question.

And yeah, I read the article, what are you getting at?

Here is the synopsis of it:
He likes to eat a lot of food, because he was raised to keep eating even after he was full.
Sometimes he watches what he eats, but sometimes he just cant say no.
In the entire article he talks a lot about food, but only once brings up what, to most of us, is the obvious second part of the equation: exercise. He details a work out routine that seems pretty relaxed for most professional athletes.
Perhaps he's just being modest, but he doesnt exactly describe a Roy Halladay/Jerry Rice/Bo Jackson level of intensity to his workouts.
He mentions the Phillies had provided him a nutritionist, but then mentions that he hasnt bothered to call her, or find a new one, since the trade.
He admits that it messes up his mechanics when he gets too heavy.
Then finally he passes the buck saying you cant do anything about it, its just the way I was born.
What did I miss?

Look, I'm not saying, "OMG, this guy is a bust! He's going to fail! Why would you trade for this fat lazy slob!"
Despite my criticism (or perhaps its why I criticize him), I really like Worley. I liked him in Philly, was more excited that we got him than I was about May.
I'm just saying, I always wondered why Philly would bail on him so fast. My first thought was maybe they know something about the elbow that we dont, but after being disappointed with his dismissive attitude regarding his secondary pitches, and now reading this, I just cant help but wonder if this played a part in their decision.
I cant help but notice a sharp contrast between this article, and the article interviewing Trevor May, where May talks about how awesome it was to be around Halladay, and how much Halladay motivated him and inspired him to work just as hard.

I think you have some unrealistically high expectations for how much professional athletes workout. Worley says his offseason workout regimen involves excersizing 3 times a day. It's not like he's sitting around doing nothing. His fiancee is supposedly cooking healthy meals. He even mentions having a special plate that measures serving sizes to make sure he is getting the correct amount to overcome his learned behaviors from childhood. He apparently has tried a few other techniques to stay with his weight loss regime (something about The Rock's weight loss technique which I didn't really get). You act as if he isn't trying to keep his weight loss under control. It is clearly something he struggles with. It is also something that he is working very hard to overcome.

I think you need to reread this quote again:


"You can't do anything about it," he said. "Everybody's genetics are different. There's guys that can just crush the worst food possible and look shredded, and I'm like, 'You are so lucky, dude.' I'm going to try, but nobody wants a salad, you know?"
You either didn't understand what he was saying or are misrepresenting it. He's talking about his genetic predisposition to both wanting certain types of food and not having a high metabolism that is just able to burn the calories. He isn't passing the buck as you say. He is just stating what is the truth. He is at a genetic disadvantage. Passing the buck would be recognizing the problem then not caring and trying to improve. Which, if you read the article, is clearly not the case. Perhaps he isn't as successful as you would like, but then again I'm sure there is something in all our lives that we are not successful at that.

Personally I say good for him. He recognizes that he has a problem and is trying to fix it. Doubly good for him to not give up even though to this date he hasn't been entirely successful. It is easy to just lay down the burden and call it good enough instead of battling for days, months, years to come.