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View Full Version : Article: The Cuts Continue, 7 Twins Reassigned



Seth Stohs
03-17-2013, 08:20 AM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1461-The-Cuts-Continue-7-Twins-Reassigned

PopRiveter
03-17-2013, 09:11 AM
It frustrates me that so many of the players I am most curious about seeing are cut before getting to see them play a televised game. I wanted to see Hicks, Arcia, Colabello and Santana this spring. Guess I'll have to settle for just Hicks.

Seth Stohs
03-17-2013, 09:17 AM
Santana played in the first televised game, I believe.

Hicks and Arcia started on Friday night in a televised game, and Colabello came in for the second half of the game.

Halsey Hall
03-17-2013, 10:25 AM
I mentioned to Colabello this morning I was surpised to see him cut, and it must be to get him more at bats. He just said "Ah, that's alright, as long as I get to play baseball".

He should make it to Minnesota sometime this summer, and maybe sooner than later.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
03-17-2013, 10:42 AM
All expected cuts, but nice to see progress being made nonetheless. Are the Twins going to cut 2 pitchers now? Plus, what are the chances they keep Wilkin Ramirez on as depth?

h2oface
03-17-2013, 11:07 AM
Cutting Chris Colabello............ I dislike the braintrust more and more. It will be a fine day when Gardenhire and Ryan are back on the interstate, going somewhere, anywhere else. The twins need a "feel good" story. badly. When they have one....... they just basically throw it away.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-17-2013, 11:28 AM
There was zero reason to keep colabello on the roster at this point...

Mr. Brooks
03-17-2013, 11:30 AM
Cutting Chris Colabello............ I dislike the braintrust more and more. It will be a fine day when Gardenhire and Ryan are back on the interstate, going somewhere, anywhere else. The twins need a "feel good" story. badly. When they have one....... they just basically throw it away.

This isnt Disney, this is major league baseball.
I get that Chris Colabello is a nice story and all, but if he's one of your 25 best players, you ought to be ashamed and embarrassed as an organization.
The guy OPS'd only .836 as a first baseman at AA last year, as a 28 year old playing against a bunch of kids many not even old enough to buy a beer.

h2oface
03-17-2013, 12:03 PM
.....I get that Chris Colabello is a nice story and all, but if he's one of your 25 best players, you ought to be ashamed and embarrassed as an organization.

You have a great point there........... one ought to be ashamed and embarrassed as an organization......... for more reasons than one.

Thrylos
03-17-2013, 12:07 PM
Pleasantly surprised to see Dan Rohlfing being the last catcher standing other than the 2 locks and Butera. He had a great spring and apparently opened some eyes over there. Add the facts that he can play 1B and OF in a pinch and is a great defensive catcher and you might have a surprise in the making (but likely next season...)

Surprised that Burnett is still there... frankly.

Mr. Brooks
03-17-2013, 12:50 PM
You have a great point there........... one ought to be ashamed and embarrassed as an orginization......... for more reasons than one.

So you want them to pile on by bringing some novelty north on the opening day roster?
I get that they've had a rough couple of years, but lets not turn them into the St. Paul Saints just yet.

FrodaddyG
03-17-2013, 12:55 PM
So you want them to pile on by bringing some novelty north on the opening day roster?
I get that they've had a rough couple of years, but lets not turn them into the St. Paul Saints just yet.
Anyone know if Eddie Gaedel has any grandkids floating around?

h2oface
03-17-2013, 03:46 PM
So you want them to pile on by bringing some novelty north on the opening day roster?
I get that they've had a rough couple of years, but lets not turn them into the St. Paul Saints just yet.
If he earns it, yes. Definitely. But keep him around and see if he earns it. I don't think of him as a novelty. Butera is much more of a novelty - a player that can't hit at all taking up an active roster spot for how many years now? Paying Correia 10 million for 2 years is a novelty. I also think performance in the WBC should count big (and CC hit .333 while leading Team Italy with two homers and seven RBIs in the WBC), and is more important than spring training games and Gardenhire's School of Basics.

FrodaddyG
03-17-2013, 04:05 PM
If he earns it, yes. Definitely. But keep him around and see if he earns it. I don't think of him as a novelty. Butera is much more of a novelty - a player that can't hit at all taking up an active roster spot for how many years now? Paying Correia 10 million for 2 years is a novelty. I also think performance in the WBC should count big (and CC hit .333 while leading Team Italy with two homers and seven RBIs in the WBC), and is more important than spring training games and Gardenhire's School of Basics.
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/692/19789999.jpg

Mr. Brooks
03-17-2013, 04:08 PM
If he earns it, yes. Definitely. But keep him around and see if he earns it. I don't think of him as a novelty. Butera is much more of a novelty - a player that can't hit at all taking up an active roster spot for how many years now? Paying Correia 10 million for 2 years is a novelty. I also think performance in the WBC should count big (and CC hit .333 while leading Team Italy with two homers and seven RBIs in the WBC), and is more important than spring training games and Gardenhire's School of Basics.

I guess I don't look to tiny sample sizes such as ST and the WBC to determine if a guy is one of the 25 best players or not.

Rosterman
03-17-2013, 05:35 PM
Remember, just because they are now in minor-league camp...they can still get called to play in major league camp for a game or three. Mostly to just give them more playing time. The Twins still have too many players that need to start playing more often than not. It also helps if you are on the 40-man.

Laroosh1
03-17-2013, 09:35 PM
Remember, just because they are now in minor-league camp...they can still get called to play in major league camp for a game or three. Mostly to just give them more playing time. The Twins still have too many players that need to start playing more often than not. It also helps if you are on the 40-man.



It is a shame that Colabello has been sent down to kinrs as he was having a good spring. Hopefully he goes to aaa so he will be called up.

nicksaviking
03-17-2013, 10:22 PM
Any chance Colabello was passive-agressively punished for playing in the WBC instead of staying with the Twins camp? The 25th roster spot was always going to come down to Butera vs Gardy's request for power on the bench. Colabello seems like an unlikely choice at first glance, but it would not have been a novelty pick, there simply were just few options. I would have to assume the bench bat to counter the Butera option now falls to Wilken Rameriz who is hardly less of a novelty than Colabello.

Of course they could decide to sign Thome, or perhaps Colabello's reassignment could be a show of power by Ryan showing Gardy now before he can get public support, that no, he will not get a bat for thebench.

jorgenswest
03-17-2013, 10:54 PM
Any chance Colabello was passive-agressively punished for playing in the WBC instead of staying with the Twins camp?


No chance.

spideyo
03-17-2013, 11:44 PM
With Morneau and Mauer back, and Parmelee still needing as much time as he can get practing RF, Colabello wouldn't be getting many opportunities to play. We know he wouldn't be starting anyways, why not let him get game time with the minor league squads so our starters (and our guys battling for starting jobs) can get more at bats and fielding opportunities?

Kavan
03-18-2013, 12:24 PM
Can someone explain to me why we are excited about Colabello. Isn't he 29 and thus far topped out at AA experience? I'd love it if he were a prospect, but he's not going to get any better.... am I missing something?

Nick Nelson
03-18-2013, 12:48 PM
Can someone explain to me why we are excited about Colabello. Isn't he 29 and thus far topped out at AA experience? I'd love it if he were a prospect, but he's not going to get any better.... am I missing something?

Just a nice story, that's all. In seasons like this one, sometimes those are the things you root for.

USAFChief
03-18-2013, 01:24 PM
Can someone explain to me why we are excited about Colabello. Isn't he 29 and thus far topped out at AA experience? I'd love it if he were a prospect, but he's not going to get any better.... am I missing something? He's not Drew Butera?

IdahoPilgrim
03-18-2013, 01:32 PM
It's a chance for those who are going to gripe about management to add something new to their arsenal. Give it a couple of months and we'll be back to complaining about this or that pitcher who hasn't been given a fair shot or about Gardy's batting order or some off--season signing (or lack of signing).


Can someone explain to me why we are excited about Colabello. Isn't he 29 and thus far topped out at AA experience? I'd love it if he were a prospect, but he's not going to get any better.... am I missing something?

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 01:45 PM
Or perhaps some of us think that if they are going to shed payroll significantly, and presumably rebuild, that maybe any extra AB's they have available should go to someone who actually has a chance to be part of that rebuilt team, rather than waste them on a 29 year old career minor leaguer?
If any AB's go to Collabello then it doesnt look as much like rebuilding as it does just plain being cheap.
I think after buying them a very nice new stadium, its not too much for the paying customers to ask that they do one or the other of rebuild OR build a team with an appropriate payroll.
I am not demanding they be better, I am not demanding they raise payroll. I am fully behind cutting payroll and rebuilding, as long as that is what they are actually doing.

glunn
03-18-2013, 02:15 PM
If Colabello can perform in Rochester, then I would expect that he will be called up at some point. This move makes sense to me, considering his lack of experience at AAA and the need to get Parmelee maximum game time during spring training.

ashburyjohn
03-18-2013, 02:22 PM
This isnt Disney, this is major league baseball.
I get that Chris Colabello is a nice story and all, but if he's one of your 25 best players, you ought to be ashamed and embarrassed as an organization.
The guy OPS'd only .836 as a first baseman at AA last year, as a 28 year old playing against a bunch of kids many not even old enough to buy a beer.

Just a quibble, but AA isn't quite as young a league as you make it out to be. Of the top 100 Eastern League batters (by plate appearances) in 2012, 5 were in their age-20 season or younger, and 4 more reached 21 in the season - maybe you meant 9% by "many". Even fewer when you look at the top 100 pitchers, I see 4 in their age-21 season, none younger. Someone posted age averages per league level a while back, but just eyeballing it the average EL age seems about 24. Yes, Colabello was old for the league, but not even the oldest.

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 02:26 PM
If you are only filtering by the batting leaders, of course not very many of them are going to be under 21. It would make sense that the older hitters would have the better hitting numbers. I would guess that if you look at ALL the hitters in AA, the number is probably closer to 15 to 20%.

And yes, being 4 years older than the average competition is a huge difference when it comes to the minor leagues.
Look at how the Twins college relievers put up video game numbers in rookie ball last year.

mike wants wins
03-18-2013, 02:30 PM
Can someone explain to me why we are excited about Colabello. Isn't he 29 and thus far topped out at AA experience? I'd love it if he were a prospect, but he's not going to get any better.... am I missing something?

Because people want to hear Gardy say "CCesie"?

ashburyjohn
03-18-2013, 02:48 PM
If you are only filtering by the batting leaders, of course not very many of them are going to be under 21. It would make sense that the older hitters would have the better hitting numbers. I would guess that if you look at ALL the hitters in AA, the number is probably closer to 15 to 20%.

There might be a greater percentage of the really young batters getting 50 plate appearances or pitchers getting 20 innings, I don't know; but when evaluating Colabello's performance those smaller numbers for comparison end up being noise. I re-sorted by plate appearances and innings pitched instead of the defaults, and the counts I quoted remain essentially the same.

Colabello at 28 is significantly older than his competition. As I said, my observation was only a quibble - characterizing the league as "many" being under legal drinking age is not false if that word means under 10%.

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 03:06 PM
There might be a greater percentage of the really young batters getting 50 plate appearances or pitchers getting 20 innings, I don't know; but when evaluating Colabello's performance those smaller numbers for comparison end up being noise. I re-sorted by plate appearances and innings pitched instead of the defaults, and the counts I quoted remain essentially the same.

Colabello at 28 is significantly older than his competition. As I said, my observation was only a quibble - characterizing the league as "many" being under legal drinking age is not false if that word means under 10%.

So if someone is popular, and its said that they "have many friends", are you going to quibble with them because the number of friends they actually have is less than 10% of the world population?
Geez, man. Its a significant amount. Its not like its .9%.
If 1 in every 10 guys he's facing is 20 years old, I'd say thats going to be quite a boost to your numbers, as a 28 year old first baseman.
Look, I dont mean to beat up on what, by all accounts is a harworking guy with a good attitude. I'm just saying that he was pretty old for the league, and still put up pedestrian numbers, considering the position he plays.
With the exception of the Miami Marlins (who should be embarrassed as an orginazation), name 1 other team in baseball who would bring this guy north?
I appreciate his work ethic, and his desire, and his love of the game. There are many pro athletes gliding by on talent alone who could learn something from this guy, and I respect that.
But if I want a feel good story, I'll pop in The Mighty Ducks, or I'll watch the Olympics. For me, there are plenty of outlets for feel good stories, I dont need them in professional athletics.
If they truly think he's one of the 25 best guys on the team, then fine, bring him north, I'll root for him if he's on the team.
But if they are only basing it on the tiny sample size of ST and the WBC, or if they are only doing it because they want a feel good story, then I'm sorry, to me that is a novelty, better left to the Bill Veeck's and PT Barnum's of the world.
Just my 2cents.

Brad Swanson
03-18-2013, 03:20 PM
Can someone explain to me why we are excited about Colabello. Isn't he 29 and thus far topped out at AA experience? I'd love it if he were a prospect, but he's not going to get any better.... am I missing something?

I think we're all forgetting the obvious marketing tie-in.

3526

nicksaviking
03-18-2013, 03:22 PM
He's not Drew Butera?

Exactly, I'm not sure why it's hard for people to understand it's an either/or situation. What other options for the 25th spot are people expecting to emerge? I don't get the irrational anamosity toward Colabello's age when the likely other option is 29-year-old Drew Butera. That is unless someone is really, really cheering for 27-year-old Wilkin Rameriz or 30-year-old Brandon Boggs. Or is it possible they are still pining for 42-year-old Jim Thome?

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 03:28 PM
Exactly, I'm not sure why it's hard for people to understand it's an either/or situation. What other options for the 25th spot are people expecting to emerge? I don't get the irrational anamosity toward Colabello's age when the likely other option is 29-year-old Drew Butera. That is unless someone is really, really cheering for 27-year-old Wilkin Rameriz or 30-year-old Brandon Boggs. Or is it possible they are still pining for 42-year-old Jim Thome?

I cant speak for anyone else, but for me it goes like this:
If you are truly cutting payroll drastically because you are rebuilding, then give the roster spot to someone who has a chance to be part of that rebuild.
If you are not rebuilding, then use some of that money to go out and sign someone who will actually be an above replacement level player.
Yes, if we are just going to throw the roster spot away on someone who is not part of the rebuild then I would rather have it be Jim Thome, the future first ballot HOF'er who has proven he can hit MLB pitching, rather than the 29 year old career minor leaguer who has not.
Or does someone in here actually think we've found a future starting first baseman here in Collabello?

Thrylos
03-18-2013, 03:48 PM
I cant speak for anyone else, but for me it goes like this:
If you are truly cutting payroll drastically because you are rebuilding, then give the roster spot to someone who has a chance to be part of that rebuild.
If you are not rebuilding, then use some of that money to go out and sign someone who will actually be an above replacement level player.
Yes, if we are just going to throw the roster spot away on someone who is not part of the rebuild then I would rather have it be Jim Thome, the future first ballot HOF'er who has proven he can hit MLB pitching, rather than the 29 year old career minor leaguer who has not.
Or does someone in here actually think we've found a future starting first baseman here in Collabello?

I think that someone in their late 20s can have a place in a rebuilding team and potentially follow in a contending young team (if the rebuild is successful) as a bat off the bench and/or as an occasional starter (think Barry Larkin/Randy Bush - role not age)

Would that be Colabello? I don't know. But I would not dismiss anyone from a rebuilding team unless they are the wrong side of 30 (like plenty of other players in this Twins' "rebuilding" team...)

My feelings about Thome in a Twins' uniform were the same as my feelings about Favre in a Vikings uniform (HOFer or not.) WHY?

Seth Stohs
03-18-2013, 03:55 PM
Obviously I think that Colabello was the feel-good story last year, and for him to make the big leagues would be a tremendous human-interest, great story. But 1.) The Twins aren't going to call anyone up just because it's a nice story, and 2.) he can absolutely have a nice role as a bench player, pinch hitter, fill-in at 1B/DH. I'd much rather Colabello do that than someone like Arcia sitting the bench for that role or something like that. he can hit. I don't care what his age is.

Kavan
03-18-2013, 04:00 PM
Obviously I think that Colabello was the feel-good story last year, and for him to make the big leagues would be a tremendous human-interest, great story. But 1.) The Twins aren't going to call anyone up just because it's a nice story, and 2.) he can absolutely have a nice role as a bench player, pinch hitter, fill-in at 1B/DH. I'd much rather Colabello do that than someone like Arcia sitting the bench for that role or something like that. he can hit. I don't care what his age is.


Cool, I'm on board with a human interest story. I only bring up the age because I got the impression people were painting him as a budding prospect or something. I hope he gets his cup of coffee, and I hope he's successful, but he doesn't seem like a guy that is going to be in our long term plans. In the short term, I completely agree we could use anyone that can hit the ball off the bench.

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 06:25 PM
Obviously I think that Colabello was the feel-good story last year, and for him to make the big leagues would be a tremendous human-interest, great story. But 1.) The Twins aren't going to call anyone up just because it's a nice story, and 2.) he can absolutely have a nice role as a bench player, pinch hitter, fill-in at 1B/DH. I'd much rather Colabello do that than someone like Arcia sitting the bench for that role or something like that. he can hit. I don't care what his age is.

I guess I'm not as sure as you are that he can hit. With his age, and as many career minor league PA's as he has under his belt, I would think he could have put up much more dominant AA numbers if he really could hit at the type of MLB level that you want from strictly a DH/PH option.

Put it this way: Who are you trusting to hit MLB pitching, RIGHT NOW, Chris Collabello, or Jim Thome, even at this age?
I'm betting on Thome 10 times out of 10, even at this age.
So if that is all you want, is a PH/occasional DH, why not just pony up the $1million and grab Thome for that role?
If the reason is you dont want to take AB's from younger guys who have a future on this team, great, I can buy that and agree. But if the reason is you'd rather give those AB's to Chris Collabello, well to me the only explanation for that is they want to save $600k, which is pretty dang pathetic given how far they've already slashed payroll.

Obviously this boat has sunk, due to Arcia's ST injury, but I think they could have gotten him 450+ PA's on the big club.
Arcia could start in RF, move Parmalee to 1B, move Justin to DH. Doumit becomes the backup catcher and the thump off your bench.
I know Doumit might feel slighted by this since we signed him to play, but I'd just tell him thats how it goes on a rebuilding team sometimes.

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 06:28 PM
I think that someone in their late 20s can have a place in a rebuilding team and potentially follow in a contending young team (if the rebuild is successful) as a bat off the bench and/or as an occasional starter (think Barry Larkin/Randy Bush - role not age)

Would that be Colabello? I don't know. But I would not dismiss anyone from a rebuilding team unless they are the wrong side of 30 (like plenty of other players in this Twins' "rebuilding" team...)

My feelings about Thome in a Twins' uniform were the same as my feelings about Favre in a Vikings uniform (HOFer or not.) WHY?

Yeah but the difference is all those other 30+ year old guys are on their way out, not on their way in.
Could Collabello have a role on a rebuilding/rebuilt team? Well sure, I guess he COULD. The same way that Drew Butera COULD (and does!!). But that doesnt mean he SHOULD.

diehardtwinsfan
03-18-2013, 06:34 PM
Perhaps this isn't obvious, but not everyone adjusts to being a pinch hitter. Some do it naturally, others do not. I have no problems letting colabello play every day in Rochester. He's facing slightly tougher competition and is a phone call away. I woudln't be surprised in the least if he gets a cup of coffee in the near future.

spideyo
03-18-2013, 09:30 PM
The wonderful thing about baseball, is you aren't doomed to go down hill once you hit 27. Yes, he's a bit older than average for where he is, but he's not exactly an old man. It's also not like he spent 10 years wasting away in A-ball. Who knows, maybe if he had ended up in someone's farm system at 21 and had pro coaches helping him develop instead of toiling away in independent league games for 8 years, he might have developed faster and been a legitimate product.

Anyways, even though WBC and ST are small sample sizes, I think you can pretty legitimately argue that he would be the best Right handed bench bat we've had in many yeats

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 09:47 PM
The wonderful thing about baseball, is you aren't doomed to go down hill once you hit 27. Yes, he's a bit older than average for where he is, but he's not exactly an old man. It's also not like he spent 10 years wasting away in A-ball. Who knows, maybe if he had ended up in someone's farm system at 21 and had pro coaches helping him develop instead of toiling away in independent league games for 8 years, he might have developed faster and been a legitimate product.

Anyways, even though WBC and ST are small sample sizes, I think you can pretty legitimately argue that he would be the best Right handed bench bat we've had in many yeats

Matt Lecroy OPS'd .899 at AA, as a 24 year old, facing equal competition.
Colabello OPS'd .836 at AA, as a 28 year old, facing competition 4 years younger than him, with 1500 to 2000 more career PA's than his average peer.
So I dont think you can legitimately say that Colabello is a better RH bench bat than Lecroy, when we havent even seen Colabello take a swing at the MLB level yet.
I mean, I guess I can somewhat buy the argument that Colabello wouldnt get absolutely exposed and destroyed at the ML level, perhaps he could hold his own and OPS .720 or so.
But to say that he'd be the best RH bat we've had in many years? Thats going out on a limb. I mean, Lew Ford OPS'd higher than either of them at AA, at 25 years old.

spideyo
03-19-2013, 07:30 AM
Let me restate that: one of the best right-handed bench options since 2007? I would be willing to bet money that at the ML level he'd at least be able to hold his own compared to Matt Tolbert, Brendan Harris, Jason Repko, Craig Monroe, Randy Ruiz, Luke Hughes, and our rotating cast of extra OF from the first part of last year.

LaBombo
03-19-2013, 08:56 AM
Why would the Twins let any player with an ounce of prospect mojo stagnate or regress in a 25 AB per month utility role? And if 'wasting' 150 bench AB's on CC is negligent because they could be used on a prospect, what would that make 537 PA's spent on a 38 year old utility infielder in a lost season?

ideally the last spot would have gone to a Bucky Buchanan-ish AAA guy a bit younger than CC, blocked from the majors or labelled quad A by another franchise. But apparently those are as impossible to come by as backup catchers who can Obp their weight.

jokin
03-19-2013, 09:48 AM
Why would the Twins let any player with an ounce of prospect mojo stagnate or regress in a 25 AB per month utility role? And if 'wasting' 150 bench AB's on CC is negligent because they could be used on a prospect, what would that make 537 PA's spent on a 38 year old utility infielder in a lost season?

ideally the last spot would have gone to a Bucky Buchanan-ish AAA guy a bit younger than CC, blocked from the majors or labelled quad A by another franchise. But apparently those are as impossible to come by as backup catchers who can Obp their weight.

I believe the Twins paleontology department has considered them an extinct species since the the closing of the WilsonRamoscene Era.

Mr. Brooks
03-19-2013, 12:20 PM
Let me restate that: one of the best right-handed bench options since 2007? I would be willing to bet money that at the ML level he'd at least be able to hold his own compared to Matt Tolbert, Brendan Harris, Jason Repko, Craig Monroe, Randy Ruiz, Luke Hughes, and our rotating cast of extra OF from the first part of last year.

The difference is, most of those guys can also give you some value in the field. If a guy is ONLY on the roster for his bat, it had better be a pretty dang good bat.

Mr. Brooks
03-19-2013, 12:21 PM
Why would the Twins let any player with an ounce of prospect mojo stagnate or regress in a 25 AB per month utility role? And if 'wasting' 150 bench AB's on CC is negligent because they could be used on a prospect, what would that make 537 PA's spent on a 38 year old utility infielder in a lost season?

ideally the last spot would have gone to a Bucky Buchanan-ish AAA guy a bit younger than CC, blocked from the majors or labelled quad A by another franchise. But apparently those are as impossible to come by as backup catchers who can Obp their weight.

I've never said they should.
I said one thing they could do is put Arcia in RF, move Parm to 1B, Morneau to DH, and make Doumit the bench bat.
I also said, if they are not going to do that, then they should go out and sign someone like Thome for that role, someone we know can hit MLB pitching.

LaBombo
03-19-2013, 01:18 PM
The 299 PA's in AA Arcia? Next to AA CF Hicks... The promotion fever is on the verge of an epidemic.

stringer bell
03-19-2013, 01:37 PM
To me, it looks like it is coming down to Wilkin Ramirez vs. Drew Butera. Ramirez can get an occasional knock and it wouldn't stun anyone if he hit a ball over the fence. Butera's value is the defense he provides at his only position. I want Ramirez, but I expect Sweet Drew.

Mr. Brooks
03-19-2013, 02:24 PM
The 299 PA's in AA Arcia? Next to AA CF Hicks... The promotion fever is on the verge of an epidemic.

Players have jumped to the majors with right around that or less, and been successful.
If a guy is ready, he's ready.
Its hard to get prospective being a Twins fan, because they havent had may prospects good enough to make the jump that quick, but around the league its really not that rare for good prospects to go from AA to MLB with right around 300 PA's.
From everything we've heard from Gardy and Terry, he's pretty much ready.
I realize that could just be lip service, and if he's not ready thats fine. I was just giving an example of one option out there.

USAFChief
03-19-2013, 02:32 PM
I've never said they should.
I said one thing they could do is put Arcia in RF, move Parm to 1B, Morneau to DH, and make Doumit the bench bat.
I also said, if they are not going to do that, then they should go out and sign someone like Thome for that role, someone we know can hit MLB pitching.
If Morneau is healthy, and on the team, he is going to play 1st base. Moving him to full time DH is just not going to happen. It's not even worth considering.

Mr. Brooks
03-19-2013, 02:43 PM
If Morneau is healthy, and on the team, he is going to play 1st base. Moving him to full time DH is just not going to happen. It's not even worth considering.

Fine, then Parm at DH and Justin at 1B.

LaBombo
03-19-2013, 02:47 PM
I realize that could just be lip service, and if he's not ready thats fine. I was just giving an example of one option out there.

Fair enough. To be honest, I've generally been a little impatient over the years with the Twins' usually very conservative approach to prospect promotion. But my feeling about this current crop is that since the Twins are not just a player or two away from contention, the whiz kids should see at least a couple of months at AAA.

The Hicks thing still bothers me. If Hicks and Benson were deemed unready and Mastro was given CF, where's the 4th OF who can play center? It just seems to me the 'competition' was a farce, with no real plan other than to pound pegs into holes, whether they fit or not.

Mr. Brooks
03-19-2013, 02:51 PM
I dont think its a farce.
I think they REALLY hoped Hicks would do well enough to get the job, as that makes it easier.
But if Hicks completely fell on his face, I dont think they would have hesitated to send him down, like they have with Gibson.
You can find a 4th of'er who cant hit or do anything else besides play competent CF. They are not very good, but if all you need is one to hold down the job until one of those 2 is ready, they can be found.

LaBombo
03-19-2013, 03:19 PM
You can find a 4th of'er who cant hit or do anything else besides play competent CF. They are not very good, but if all you need is one to hold down the job until one of those 2 is ready, they can be found.
It would look a lot less like Hicks showed up with the job if there were at least one viable (> Clete Thomas) NRI CF besides the prospects and Mastro in spring training from day 1. Small potatoes compared to other issues, but finding a last-minute 4th OF if Mastro wound up in center seems less desirable than having them ready at the outset.

h2oface
03-19-2013, 04:00 PM
Mastroianni's ability to play all outfield positions my be the asset that hinders his dream of earning an everyday starting position.....

LaBombo
03-19-2013, 04:27 PM
Mastroianni's ability to play all outfield positions my be the asset that hinders his dream of earning an everyday starting position.....

Yes, another sign it's been Hicks' to lose since winter meetings.

ashburyjohn
03-19-2013, 05:53 PM
Mastroianni's ability to play all outfield positions my be the asset that hinders his dream of earning an everyday starting position.....

That and his lack of pop in the bat.

spideyo
03-19-2013, 06:37 PM
My understanding is that Colabello is a decent fielder. Unfortunately, it's at the one position where we have incredible depth of options.

If he could cover both corner OF spots and/or 3B, his chances would be upped considerably.

Heck, if Mourneau got hurt or traded, a Parmelee/Colabello platoon at 1B would be pretty interesting.


So basically, my point is that offensively, he'd be one of the best right handed bats we've had in half a decade. Defensively, he probably isn't any worse than some of previous bench guys, he just happens to specialize in an area where we aren't lacking for depth

beckmt
03-19-2013, 06:52 PM
Just sending a player to AAA does not mean that he cannot be called up. Players play their way off the roster in spring training or if really good, play their way on. Do not think Butera is who they want, but some other options take time to prove in AAA that they belong.

Mr. Brooks
03-19-2013, 07:04 PM
My understanding is that Colabello is a decent fielder. Unfortunately, it's at the one position where we have incredible depth of options.

If he could cover both corner OF spots and/or 3B, his chances would be upped considerably.

Heck, if Mourneau got hurt or traded, a Parmelee/Colabello platoon at 1B would be pretty interesting.


So basically, my point is that offensively, he'd be one of the best right handed bats we've had in half a decade. Defensively, he probably isn't any worse than some of previous bench guys, he just happens to specialize in an area where we aren't lacking for depth

The guy has never had a MLB at bat.
What would you think if I were to say, "It's safe to say that Sano is going to be the best power hitter we've had in decades."?

spideyo
03-19-2013, 09:42 PM
It's really all about context. Ultimately, it's really about the fact that we've basically had **** for right-handed bench bats over the last 5 years.
I'm not saying he's gonna win a batting title or anything. Just that the fact that he's 29 and hasn't played AAA or MLB yet don't immediately mean he's a washed up piece of crap.

And yes, he hasn't had an at bat in an official MLB game, but at least some of the pitchers he's been facing in ST and in the WBC ARE major league pitchers.


Also, I think a lot of people would argue that Butera has never had an MLB-quality at bat

Mr. Brooks
03-19-2013, 10:02 PM
It's really all about context. Ultimately, it's really about the fact that we've basically had **** for right-handed bench bats over the last 5 years.
I'm not saying he's gonna win a batting title or anything. Just that the fact that he's 29 and hasn't played AAA or MLB yet don't immediately mean he's a washed up piece of crap.

And yes, he hasn't had an at bat in an official MLB game, but at least some of the pitchers he's been facing in ST and in the WBC ARE major league pitchers.


Also, I think a lot of people would argue that Butera has never had an MLB-quality at bat

I'm not saying he's a washed up piece of crap.
I'm saying lets actually see him get some real (ST and/or WBC do not count) MLB AB's, before we start making declarative statements about how he will hit.
He could be the best RH bench bat we've had in a while, or he could be a right handed Clete Thomas, minus any defensive or baserunning value. Neither would shock me more than the other.

Laroosh1
03-20-2013, 04:51 PM
If I recall correctly last year when the twins signed Colabello it was noted that he played third base in independent ball. If that is the case he is more valuable then people think he is. He will get his time in the bigs and he will produce. There will be a lot of band wagon people who will say why didn't they have him play from opening day.

Mr. Brooks
03-20-2013, 04:54 PM
If I recall correctly last year when the twins signed Colabello it was noted that he played third base in independent ball. If that is the case he is more valuable then people think he is. He will get his time in the bigs and he will produce. There will be a lot of band wagon people who will say why didn't they have him play from opening day.

He made 41 errors in 115 games at 3B. I doubt anyone is putting him at 3rd in a major league game.
I find it interesting that there are people who can make absolute, declarative statements about a guy who has yet to play a MLB game.

ashburyjohn
03-20-2013, 05:47 PM
I'm saying lets actually see him get some real (ST and/or WBC do not count) MLB AB's, before we start making declarative statements about how he will hit.

Someone's going to make declarative statements about all the players who don't make the final roster - that's how these decisions get made. Granted, "we" won't be making those statements, but if that's your point, just about 99% of the forum threads here could face the same criticism.

Mr. Brooks
03-20-2013, 05:53 PM
Someone's going to make declarative statements about all the players who don't make the final roster - that's how these decisions get made. Granted, "we" won't be making those statements, but if that's your point, just about 99% of the forum threads here could face the same criticism.

I disagree. Most people in these threads say things like, "I dont think this guy can do x, and here is why..."
Or, "I really think player x is going to have a great year, and here is why."
Those are opinions, which is what this is all about.
Saying something like, "Its safe to say that Cobello IS going to be the best RH bat we've had in years", or "he's gonna play, and he's gonna produce" is a completely different thing.
Unless a person has a crystal ball, I just dont know how any of us can make statements like that about anyone, much less someone who has never played an MLB game before.

ashburyjohn
03-20-2013, 06:22 PM
Unless a person has a crystal ball, I just dont know how any of us can make statements like that about anyone, much less someone who has never played an MLB game before.

What I'm reacting to is that early in the thread you said that bringing Colabello north would be a novelty act on a par with the Saint Paul Saints. And then near the end of this thread you say "lets actually see him get some real (ST and/or WBC do not count) MLB AB's, before we start making declarative statements about how he will hit." Can't do that if he's cut. And you have to make some guess about how someone will hit before he ever gets his first chance at some MLB ABs.

Mr. Brooks
03-20-2013, 06:30 PM
What I'm reacting to is that early in the thread you said that bringing Colabello north would be a novelty act on a par with the Saint Paul Saints. And then near the end of this thread you say "lets actually see him get some real (ST and/or WBC do not count) MLB AB's, before we start making declarative statements about how he will hit." Can't do that if he's cut. And you have to make some guess about how someone will hit before he ever gets his first chance at some MLB ABs.

What I'm saying is that based on his age, position, and AA numbers, I dont think he's one of the 25 best guys on the team.
My "novelty" statement was based on the idea of bringing him north because, "he would be a nice feel good story".
If you are bringing a guy north not because he's one of your 25 best players, but because he's a feel good story, that IS a novelty.
If you were to continue to read my posts on this topic you would notice that I say that if they think that he IS one of the 25 best players, then by all means take him north. That's not a novelty.

spideyo
03-20-2013, 06:35 PM
Yeah what ashburyjohn said. Colabello has actual skills, so if they did add him to the major league roster, it wouldn't be as a novelty act or a "feel good" story.

Also, if you go back to my original post, I originally had said you could ARGUE that he would be our best Right-handed bench bat. After that I may have gone overboard with my statements in my attempts to defend myself, but my original intent wasn't to anoint him, but simply point out that based on potential and small sample size alone, he looks pretty darn good when you set him against the bench options Gardy has had in the past.

Mr. Brooks
03-20-2013, 06:41 PM
Yeah what ashburyjohn said. Colabello has actual skills, so if they did add him to the major league roster, it wouldn't be as a novelty act or a "feel good" story.

Also, if you go back to my original post, I originally had said you could ARGUE that he would be our best Right-handed bench bat. After that I may have gone overboard with my statements in my attempts to defend myself, but my original intent wasn't to anoint him, but simply point out that based on potential and small sample size alone, he looks pretty darn good when you set him against the bench options Gardy has had in the past.

Well everyone in professional baseball has some kind of actual skills. They wouldnt get paid to play baseball if they didnt.
There is nothing in his AA numbers last year that impresses me, given his age and position, thats all i'm saying.
I have already said that its not a novelty if they bring him north for the right reasons. My original "novelty" statement was in regards to a couple of posters who said it would be a feel good story if he were brought north. After that it kind of went of the rails a bit, and I think some people have been led to believe that I feel bringing him north for any reason is a "novelty", which is not the case.

Halsey Hall
03-22-2013, 09:00 AM
Things looking better for Hicks with Benson being optioned today to AAA. I'm liking it.