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View Full Version : Spring Training - Game 23 - 3/23 - vs Tampa



Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 10:04 AM
The Twins play today at 2:05 central time against the Rays. Here is the lineup. They are also going with a bullpen pitching day.

Denard Span CF
Jamey Carroll SS
Joe Mauer C
Justin Morneau DH
Josh Willingham LF
Danny Valencia 3B
Chris Parmelee RF
JR Towles C
Luke Hughes 2B

Pitchers: Matt Capps, Casey Fien, Jeff Gray, Matt Maloney, Glen Perkins, Brendan Wise, Alex Burnett

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 10:06 AM
Very interesting happenings in the lineup. Here's what I'm seeing...

Willingham back in LF again, back to back days. Chris Parmelee is in RF where he played late in yesterday's game. Joe Mauer is at 1B with Morneau DHing.

I can't help but thinking that Parmelee is making this team, but they want to ensure that he will play every day. He will likely primarily play at 1B, but when Mauer gets out from behind the plate, he'll play first base and Parmelee will move out to RF (to keep him in the lineup... if he can prove good enough out there). Parmelee's presence likely most affects the playing time of Ben Revere/Trevor Plouffe as Willingham clearly is an everyday player too.

Neinstein
03-24-2012, 10:11 AM
I'm down with that.

Ultima Ratio
03-24-2012, 11:25 AM
What happens with Doumit?

Neinstein
03-24-2012, 11:34 AM
What happens with Doumit?
Mauer & Parmelee rotate @ 1B. Then, while Mauer & Doumit rotate @ C, Parmelee in RF. Doumit would also get occasional DH.

Ultima Ratio
03-24-2012, 11:54 AM
If Mourneau is the primary DH, Mauer primary C, and Parmelee primary 1B, does this put Doumit as the primary RF with Willingham in LF? This would make some scary bad defense in the OF. The plan for Doumit was for more than just backup C duties, but primary DH given his defensive limits. If Parmelee makes the team, you have to move Doumit from DH to RF to keep his bat int he line-up, no? Yes, I get that there will be plenty of rotating/shifting (whether this maneuver is full of wisdom or not), but just this move of Morneau to DH for Doumit is a defensive downgrade no matter if Doumit is in RF or someone else-- again, as a primary lineup.

Mr. Ed
03-24-2012, 11:54 AM
LaVelle reports Spencer Steedley was let go yesterday.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 11:58 AM
LaVelle reports Spencer Steedley was let go yesterday.

That is correct.

minn55441
03-24-2012, 12:11 PM
I'm still taking Terry Ryan and Gardy at their word. Morneau has proven himself at 1B, he doesn't need many reps the next two weeks. He does need additional at-bats. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Neinstein
03-24-2012, 12:20 PM
Yes, I get that there will be plenty of rotating/shifting (whether this maneuver is full of wisdom or not), but just this move of Morneau to DH for Doumit is a defensive downgrade no matter if Doumit is in RF or someone else-- again, as a primary lineup.
Parmelee in the opening day lineup scenario is all about Morneau's continued health and not about Parmelee or Doumit.
As for the downgrade, I could still see some lineups calling for Revere in RF or even LF. The idea is to get Parmelee in there while Morneau remains a question mark.
I think they're looking at this as more of a short term arrangement while the dust settles and cobwebs clear for Justin. If that doesn't happen, then some other more bizarre scenarios may play out down the road.

Ultima Ratio
03-24-2012, 12:28 PM
Parmelee in the opening day lineup scenario is all about Morneau's continued health and not about Parmelee or Doumit.
As for the downgrade, I could still see some lineups calling for Revere in RF or even LF. The idea is to get Parmelee in there while Morneau remains a question mark.
I think they're looking at this as more of a short term arrangement while the dust settles and cobwebs clear for Justin. If that doesn't happen, then some other more bizarre scenarios may play out down the road.

I hope you are correct, that this is a temporary 'wait and see' approach. If this happens, I see the reason not being a worry about cobwebs from the concussion per se, but the ability to focus on hitting and hitting alone. This tactic of DHing Morneau is an emersion into hitting.... getting so many reps that either he pulls out of his hitting funk, or breaks himself trying. I politely disagree: I never expect Revere in RF except for some bizarre emergency.

Neinstein
03-24-2012, 01:03 PM
I politely disagree: I never expect Revere in RF except for some bizarre emergency.
Personally, I don't think it would happen, but we have seen stranger things.
I'm also curious how Willingham feels spending some quality time out there in LF, wondering if we'll be seeing a lot of that this year anyway.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 02:18 PM
Nice 1st inning for Jeff Gray. Fly out. Ground out. Then he struck out Evan Longoria.

I just don't understand why he hasn't pitched more. He's on the 40 man. He's out of options. Could he still be in the equation for an opening day spot? could be earn it in the next week?

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 02:22 PM
Justin Morneau with a 2-run blast gives the Twins a 2-0 lead. I bet that felt good for him to run around the bases!!

ThatsRich
03-24-2012, 02:23 PM
Morneau homers - at last - let's hope the first of dozens this year.

Fanatic Jack
03-24-2012, 02:29 PM
Morneau hitting that HR is better than anything I can imagine this spring. The middle of the lineup of Mauer/Morneau/Willingham/Parmelee/Valencia/Doumit. That is some serious thump.

Fanatic Jack
03-24-2012, 02:34 PM
Mr. Ryan please release Jeff Gray. Pleeeeeeease!!!!!!!

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 02:36 PM
So, now, based on Inning 2, Jeff Gray may not be part of the discussion.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 02:48 PM
JR Towles has done pretty much nothing the three weeks in between, but he just connected for his 2nd home run of the spring.

ThatsRich
03-24-2012, 02:49 PM
What is this? A backup catcher that can hit? I don't think I've ever seen that...

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 02:55 PM
What is this? A backup catcher that can hit? I don't think I've ever seen that...

I don't know that I wold say that Towles can hit... even Butera has a couple of big league HR...

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 02:59 PM
Matt Maloney continues to impress with a 1-2-3 inning and a strikeout. Is he a legit bullpen option (SP turned BP, like Glen Perkins) or this year's version of Dusty Hughes (who was great last spring to 'earn' an Opening Day job)?

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 03:11 PM
Mauer 1B, Morneau BB, Willingham 1B loads the bases. A Wild Pitch scores Mauer.

jorgenswest
03-24-2012, 03:11 PM
Going into the season last year, I think it was clear that Hughes was not a major league pitcher. He walked too many guys and gave up too many hits as a starter in the minors. Maloney's numbers are more encouraging (especially in terms of control). It may also be encouraging that Maloney's name also made the BBA reds top 10 prospect list twice. I did not find Hughes on a Royals list. I think the Twins should have known that Hughes was not a solution.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 03:18 PM
JR Towles with a double off the top of the LF wall... Luke Hughes backs it up with another double.

jorgenswest
03-24-2012, 03:24 PM
Interesting Maloney trivia...

Traded to Reds for former Twin Kyle Lohse. He also made an appearance on a Phillie top 10 list.

Parker Hageman
03-24-2012, 03:31 PM
Perkins is warming up in the pen.

Fanatic Jack
03-24-2012, 03:32 PM
Seth,

Drew Butera has done nothing for two seasons now! Pick you poison. Remember when you said Butera was not a problem as a backup catcher because he would only get 50-75 at bats in a season. He tripled that last year and was terrible. Time for a change. Parmelee means no Butera!!

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 03:38 PM
Justin Morneau with a 3-run blast to give the Twins 10 runs off of Jeremy Hellickson. It's his second home run of the day, and after the double yesterday, it's fair to say that it is at least encouraging!

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 03:41 PM
Seth, Drew Butera has done nothing for two seasons now! Pick you poison. Remember when you said Butera was not a problem as a backup catcher because he would only get 50-75 at bats in a season. He tripled that last year and was terrible. Time for a change. Parmelee means no Butera!!

I would agree that a backup catcher should have less than 100 at bats, as Butera did in 2010. When he got 400 plate appearances, obviously his offense matters. But I'll stand by my thoughts that if a backup catcher gets less than 100 at bats, the effect is pretty minimal. And, the hope for 2012 would be the Butera, Towles, Rivera, whoever the THIRD catcher is would also get less than 100 plate appearances in the season... which is why of course I agree (and have written, mind you) that I think the idea of the third catcher is ridiculous. My point on Parmelee is that I'm fine with him being up as long as he's playing pretty much every day.

Fanatic Jack
03-24-2012, 03:46 PM
Seth,

I agree Parmelee needs to play everyday. I would leave Morneau at DH after a performance like today. Don't mess with success.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 03:56 PM
Uggh, why would they put Benson in LF and Revere in RF?!!? (except that maybe Willingham is now a LF and Revere is now a 4th OF?)

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 04:23 PM
Parmelee continues to make Ryan's and Gardy's decision to keep him around tougher... or easier? HR off a tough lefty in Jake McGee...

Now Luke Hughes hits another one.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 04:33 PM
Speaking of making decisions easier for Ryan/Gardenhire... see Burnett, Alex.

Mr. Ed
03-24-2012, 04:51 PM
Great day for Morneau. Nicely done Towles/Parmlelee, Hughes.

It would mean a lot to the bullpen to have a couple of bodies that can give them 2 innings in a game. Looks like Maloney may be one of those.

Cannot imagine them breaking camp w/o that guy.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 04:55 PM
Yeah, I think that Maloney has earned the long relief job. It'd be nice to find another 2-3 inning guy out of the bullpen.

Mr. Ed
03-24-2012, 04:55 PM
Maloney

11.1IP 5H/2BB/14 Ks

No way guys like Burnett/Manship make it ahead of him.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 05:04 PM
Luke Hughes just hit a ground-rule double... he's now 5-5 with 2-doubles, a home run and five RBI. I think he's going to be on the roster.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 05:05 PM
Maloney

11.1IP 5H/2BB/14 Ks

No way guys like Burnett/Manship make it ahead of him.

They won't... Maloney's already a given. It's Burnett, Manship, Burton and Waldrop for the final two spots.

wagwan
03-24-2012, 05:27 PM
Sure is hard to judge these pitchers like Fein who only pitch in the late innings of ST games where everybody swings at the first pitch to get it over with.....

Mr. Ed
03-24-2012, 05:32 PM
Aaron Thompson suspended 50 games.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 05:34 PM
Aaron Thompson suspended 50 games.

Yup, for a recreational drug. Smart! There was another thread on that topic started this morning.

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 05:34 PM
Twins 19, Rays 4... Fun game for the good guys!

Seth Stohs
03-24-2012, 05:35 PM
Sure is hard to judge these pitchers like Fein who only pitch in the late innings of ST games where everybody swings at the first pitch to get it over with.....

Agreed! He's pitched well enough to get in against big league hitters and see what you've got.

iastfan112
03-24-2012, 07:07 PM
I would agree that a backup catcher should have less than 100 at bats, as Butera did in 2010. When he got 400 plate appearances, obviously his offense matters. But I'll stand by my thoughts that if a backup catcher gets less than 100 at bats, the effect is pretty minimal. And, the hope for 2012 would be the Butera, Towles, Rivera, whoever the THIRD catcher is would also get less than 100 plate appearances in the season... which is why of course I agree (and have written, mind you) that I think the idea of the third catcher is ridiculous. My point on Parmelee is that I'm fine with him being up as long as he's playing pretty much every day. You do realize both your approximations are off. Butera had 142 terrible AB's in 2010 and significantly less than 234 even worse ones last year(though, it did indeed feel more like 400). He just flat out hasn't hit at any level. Give me Towles and the outside possibility of competency with the bat.