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Seth Stohs
03-15-2013, 11:03 PM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1459-Minnesota-Twins-Roster-Projection-3-0

adjacent
03-15-2013, 11:16 PM
I saw Pedro Hernandez pitching in the game on TV today. Not too bad. I don't think he is going to be with the Twins, but if they need an extra starter, he is an option (and he is lefty)

Seth Stohs
03-15-2013, 11:59 PM
People sure didn't like the Francisco Liriano trade at the time, but it's pretty clear that it was yet another great trade by Terry Ryan. Liriano continued his struggles with the White Sox and then left and went to the National League. In Escobar, the Twins have a utility player for the next five or six years, and possibly a long, lefty reliever for the next 6-7 years... pretty nice.

Snortwood
03-16-2013, 12:29 AM
People sure didn't like the Francisco Liriano trade at the time, but it's pretty clear that it was yet another great trade by Terry Ryan. Liriano continued his struggles with the White Sox and then left and went to the National League. In Escobar, the Twins have a utility player for the next five or six years, and possibly a long, lefty reliever for the next 6-7 years... pretty nice.

What is hard to believe is that the Twins got more out of the Pierzynski trade with the Giants than they did from sending Johan to the Mets. Compare and contrast Terry Ryan and Billy Smith. No cuss words allowed. You may begin.

jimbo92107
03-16-2013, 12:52 AM
In the art of pitching, Cole DeVries has shown better mastery than Liam Hendriks, who has better stuff, but less consistency. Meanwhile I still think Sam Deduno could be one of the best late-blooming pitchers in the league. If he's finally found a way to throw his crazy fastball for strikes, he could really shut down some teams.

The Benson/Hicks competition is nonsense. Aaron Hicks clearly is the better ballplayer. Either send down Joe Benson or make him the fourth outfielder. Darrin Mastroianni is pretty good too, but with Hicks leading off, you want your other outfielders to have more pop. Benson can drive balls over the fence, while Masto is mainly a slap hitter. In any case, if Morneau gets traded mid-season, they'll just bring up whoever gets sent down now, and move Parms to 1B.

I haven't seen Escobar try to play catcher, but with so many mediocre arms on the staff, seems to me Gardy will want a third backstop that is more than an emergency fill-in. Past balls, bad throws and crappy handling of pitchers could lose more games than an average bat can make up for. If Butera's not on the opening day roster, I'll still be surprised. Who ya got that's better? We sent him to the Nationals for Matt Capps.

FrodaddyG
03-16-2013, 01:14 AM
What is hard to believe is that the Twins got more out of the Pierzynski trade with the Giants than they did from sending Johan to the Mets. Compare and contrast Terry Ryan and Billy Smith. No cuss words allowed. You may begin.
I forget, what GM hamstrung Ryan's leverage before the Pierzynski trade the way Ryan did to Smith prior to the Johan trade?

glunn
03-16-2013, 01:47 AM
I forget, what GM hamstrung Ryan's leverage before the Pierzynski trade the way Ryan did to Smith prior to the Johan trade?

Ulysses S. Grant?

old nurse
03-16-2013, 05:52 AM
I forget, what GM hamstrung Ryan's leverage before the Pierzynski trade the way Ryan did to Smith prior to the Johan trade?
Pierzynski and Santana were both on the last year of a contract. How is the leverage on one any different than the other other than that is your opinion?

Kwak
03-16-2013, 07:12 AM
I forget, what GM hamstrung Ryan's leverage before the Pierzynski trade the way Ryan did to Smith prior to the Johan trade?
Boston's package's included Coco Crisp and NYY offer included Melky Cabrera--plus their salaries. The Mets were only offering guys would be paid at the minimum. Oh, and "some" were "in love" with Carlos Gomez and all of his "tools".

Thrylos
03-16-2013, 09:38 AM
People sure didn't like the Francisco Liriano trade at the time, but it's pretty clear that it was yet another great trade by Terry Ryan..

I think that one needs to wait few years to see how it all pans out, before it is labelled "a great trade". If Liriano gets his act together and has a few great seasons, this would be "yet another great trade by Terry Ryan" like trading Kyle Lohse for Zach Ward...

Give it some time...

josecordoba
03-16-2013, 09:47 AM
Few Thoughts

1. I wouldn't be devasted if Hicks went down to Triple A. Keith Law suggested about 250 at Bats would be a good idea. I get the argument about bringing him up. I would rather be cautious in this case rather then agressive. Worse case scenario is you win 65 games with Joe Benson rather then 70 games with Aaron Hicks.

2. The deal with Liriano is Thrylos is right that he could pull a Loshe. Yet the problem is the Twins probably got all the return they were going to get for him. He was also a pending Free Agent. If Escobar or Hernadez provide any positive value over the next half-decade this trade's a win. Liriano had a long enough leash with the Twins.

Thrylos
03-16-2013, 09:51 AM
Compare and contrast Terry Ryan and Billy Smith. No cuss words allowed. You may begin.

You may also compare and contrast Andy MacPhail and Terry Ryan. You can start with world championships or signing top tier free agents, if you like...

Seth Stohs
03-16-2013, 10:15 AM
This is a forum about the roster projections.

The White Sox and Twins made the deal. The TWins could (we don't know) get 13 years of service time and the White Sox got 2 months of bad pitching from Liriano. At that point, he became a free agent. So what Liriano does from this point on has nothing to do with the Twins/White Sox trade.

Everyone talks about how the last 2-3 weeks of spring training are more telling than the first 3 weeks. The Twins decided to stand by Benson due to his talent and upside rather than focus on his injury-plagued 2012 season. After missing all that time last year and not being able to do baseball activities all offseason, it's no surprise that he started slow. I still project Hicks to be the starter, but if Benson stays hot, makes contact, takes a few walks and plays defense, it's not completely over yet.

Rick Niedermann
03-16-2013, 10:48 AM
I really see another year where the starting staff is in flux most of the season. We have 3 gimpy arms in Diamond, Pelfrey, and Worley. Our addition of Correria is to be an innings eater but his history would suggest he will be demoted to the bullpen at some point due to ineffectivess and Hendriks sent to AAA for more refinement. I haven't seen the improvement in Hendriks to warrant a spot in the rotation. Still no out pitch and very much suseptible to the long ball. A long look at Deduno, Hernandez, Walters and De Vries (a continued pleasand surprise) needs to be done yet this spring. My starters going North would be Worley, Pelfrey, Correria (only cuz I hafta), DeVries, Deduno. ( Diamond DL)
The bullpen isn't that hard to figure out. Perkins-closer. Burton-setup Duensing-LH specialist. Fien should be in as a 7th inning guy. Pressley wins a spot, you can always return him to the Sox later if he falters, Wood-paying him, so he comes North. So the final spot goes to either Roenicke, Robertson, Hernandez, or Burnett. Right now I'd go with Hernandez. LH has done well this spring. Robertson is to inconsistent. Burnett goes back to AAA with his option and poor pitching. Roenicke you pass through wavers and hope for the best.

Jim H
03-16-2013, 10:50 AM
I have a hard time seeing Benson or Escobar on the major league roster as backups. While that maybe their ceilings, I don't think we can say that for sure, yet. They both need regular AB's and a chance to improve their games, if you believe either can be a major league regular. Having Escobar around as a backup to the utility man(Carroll) doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Benson almost certainly needs regular AB's at this point of his career to be productive. He wouldn't get that as the 5th OF and probably wouldn't as the 4th.

I think Butera makes the team. His presence doesn't take AB's from Mauer or Doumit, on the contrary, his presence or somebody like him, probably means those 2 get more AB's. If Butera takes a few AB's from some other backup, which is really the case, that isn't going to hurt the offense that much.

I think DeVries makes the team, either as the 5th starter or a long reliever. Although there are ways for Deduno to make the team, he probably begins in AAA. Burnett hasn't pitched himself to AAA, yet, but he better step it up. I think the Twins keep Pressly, his upside is probably higher than Roenicke or Wood and they can't keep all three.

I think Robertson goes to AAA and the Twins want to keep Hernandez starting, at least for now, so he goes to AAA as well.

As far as comparing MacPhail and Ryan. Ryan did a much better job getting his team to the postseason and having a competitive team year after year. Ryan was/is much better at building a farm system. MacPhail had 2 teams get to the postseason, neither of whom was among the top 10 teams in baseball in those years, by most measures. That those teams won was probably a greater testiment to Kelly's skill as a manager than MacPhail's at roster building. It was another example of getting hot and lucky in the postseason rather than having the best team in the postseason.

Winston Smith
03-16-2013, 12:06 PM
I would really like to know how many times would a 3 rd catcher really be required? Is it 1 or 2 innings a year? It seems like a total waste of a bench spot to have a 3rd catcher that may be needed for an inning or 2 and can't hit. If Mauer or Doumit get hurt you can have a replacement up the next day. When you have a thin bench anyway it makes no sense!

jorgenswest
03-16-2013, 12:09 PM
Deduno is intriguing.

His combination of groundball rate (58.3%) and infield fly ball rate (17%) are both among the highest rates for starting pitchers last year. It points to how difficult it is for batters to get good contact against him.

Where does he fit on a staff? Starter or reliever?

I would think that starting is the better role. The only way he can be successful as a starter would be if he can handle large pitch counts.

Can he be effective at 120+ pitches? Will he still get the same movement on his pitches to that point? Will he maintain enough command? Some pitchers maintain their effectiveness with large pitch counts.

Will he remain healthy with large pitch counts? He had Tommy John surgery in 2008.

I don't think there is another option. His command makes coming in as a middle reliever with runners on base difficult. As a starter, unless they are willing to extend him to large pitch counts, he will have a hard time going beyond 5 innings.

jorgenswest
03-16-2013, 12:18 PM
Should Doumit get any regular time at catcher?

I hope the Twins will be paying attention to his defense. If it is as bad as some studies suggest, his bat at catcher can not make up for this deficiency. They had better be looking at the videos and pitch f/x. Steinbach had better be working with him towards improving his ability to frame pitches. If not, his only useful role is as DH/PH/emergency 3rd catcher.

I am not saying Butera is the answer. He does not fare as well defensively as you would expect from a guy who is limited with the bat. I don't think the Twins have an answer.

Seth Stohs
03-16-2013, 01:12 PM
I saw nothing while watching Doumit catch a ton last year taht told me that he shouldn't be catching. I don't think I'll ever be able to buy stats for framing pitches. I really don't. I think that if he isn't getting those close pitches to be called strikes, some of that has as much to do with inexperienced or wild pitchers that aren't going to get umps calls too.

Regarding Deduno. He's earned the right to be a starter, but I wouldn't have him ahead of De Vries or Hendriks at this point. The 40 man roster situation is also a factor at this point in the season.

FrodaddyG
03-16-2013, 01:20 PM
Pierzynski and Santana were both on the last year of a contract. How is the leverage on one any different than the other other than that is your opinion?
Because Ryan basically insulted Santana with his extension offer on his way out the door, leaving Smith with essentially no chance of re-signing him, forcing him to make a deal. Pierzynski was dealt because of Mauer's presence, but could have easily been kept as a backup C/DH at the time.

SF gave up a good package because AJ was a useful player entering his prime at a position that's starved for offense. It wasn't like they were getting sure-thing prospects in return, but they panned out better than prospects generally do.

The Mets ended up giving up less in their deal because they knew the Twins' hand was forced, and all of baseball knew Santana had one foot out the door the second he turned down Ryan's "competitive" 5/$100M offer. The prospects they got in return ended up being essentially useless during their Twins tenure, but making a deal was something Smith had to do given the circumstances.

Brandon
03-16-2013, 02:05 PM
The big debate is the pitching staff so I'll start with the CF debate and go with Hicks and Mastroianni. If the Twins weren't trying to say the job is Hicks to loose then I would go with Benson and Mastro while Hicks lets his clock go in the minors the first 2 months.

next is the 25th spot. Butera, Colabello, or Benson in this trifecta i see Benson comming north to continue to push in CF and RF with Parmelee. The Twins will want someone who can come in and play the corner OF spots for defense with pop at the end of games. and pinch hit too. Though good arguements could be made for the other 2 and I would not be disappointed in any of the 3 comming north.

Starting pitching. This is hard cause I feel like we are stuck with Correia in the rotation even though he hasnt shown yet that he deserves it this spring. I would like the rotation to start out with Worely, Dedunno, Devries, [Hendriks (2nd most likely to be sent down after Walters)/ Walters (who could be in pen but is also not on roster or out of options) and Corriea or Pelfry for the last 2 spots]. (Diamond and Pelfry start on the DL unless Pelfry shows better command and results by the end of spring training. the spot is his to loose at this point but he has struggled with command issues. He may need to go on a rehab assignment and stay in extended spring training for a few weeks to work on command.) The first month of the season is shaping up to be tryouts for the rotation. I think Correia should be the fall back option if these other guys show they do not belong. Especially Dedunno, though Dedunno and DeVries appear to be ahead of Hendriks at this point. I am not sure what to think of Walters though I suspect he could end up the in the pen as a long man replacing Swarzak.

Bullpen
Perkins, Burton, Deunsing, Fien, Wood, Roenicke, Pressly, Walters,
I wonder if the Twins will open with 4 starters and 8 relievers to start the season so Wood, Roenicke, Pressly, and Walters can see which one goes down when Diamond comes up. Walters is the odd man out in both the rotation and bullpen IMO. As he is not on the roster and Dedunno appears to be in the lead for the rotation between Walters and Dedunno.

Seth Stohs
03-16-2013, 02:12 PM
Walters is also not on the 40 man roster, so I think if he comes up, it'd be for more than just a little while until someone comes off the DL.

And, the reality is that Correia is going to be in the rotation... regardless of spring stats at all.

jorgenswest
03-16-2013, 02:26 PM
I saw nothing while watching Doumit catch a ton last year taht told me that he shouldn't be catching. I don't think I'll ever be able to buy stats for framing pitches. I really don't. I think that if he isn't getting those close pitches to be called strikes, some of that has as much to do with inexperienced or wild pitchers that aren't going to get umps calls too.

Regarding Deduno. He's earned the right to be a starter, but I wouldn't have him ahead of De Vries or Hendriks at this point. The 40 man roster situation is also a factor at this point in the season.

I think the Twins agree with you. They will probably continue to ignore it. Is that your recommendation?

If it is an illusion, then how is it possible that over several years and each year Molina does consistently well and Doumit does consistently poorly? Remember that this is supported by a sample of thousands of pitches. Both have played with multiple teams. Inexperienced staffs? How does that explain Jaso's performance with virtually the same staff as Molina? How about Chris Snyder vs. Doumit?

I would have gone into spring training with a different plan for back up catcher. I am not sure if we should project what the Twins will do or should do. I think they should find a back up at catcher that will be an asset to the young staff. I think Doumit should be in a Jim Thome role. At this Butera is the only option until someone is DFA'd by another team.

Thrylos
03-16-2013, 02:35 PM
next is the 25th spot. Butera, Colabello, or Benson in this trifecta i see Benson comming north to continue to push in CF and RF with Parmelee. The Twins will want someone who can come in and play the corner OF spots for defense with pop at the end of games. and pinch hit too. Though good arguements could be made for the other 2 and I would not be disappointed in any of the 3 comming north.

I would not leave Ramirez out of the equation at this point. Olmedo as well.

mike wants wins
03-16-2013, 03:05 PM
Easy for law to say keep hicks down, he is not a fan wanting to be entertained. He is not paying for tickets. It amazes me people are so worried about the pollards money and control, and less worried about the actual entertainment value on the field.

diehardtwinsfan
03-16-2013, 03:40 PM
As much as I'd prefer Deduno to be one of the top 5, he's under contract and not on the 40 man. I'm guessing he's going to spend some time at Rochester and prove that his control has improved before getting added back. It isn't a terrible strategy, as he can prove that at either place, but he might very well be the best starter on the staff.

Shane Wahl
03-16-2013, 04:04 PM
Seth, you have 11 sure-thing position players right now, so it's safe to say the two remaining spots go to two of the following:

Hicks
Butera
Ramirez
Boggs
Colabello
Clement

You indicate that Butera and Hicks are the leading candidates, but if *neither of them* which two do you think have the advantage out of the remaining four?

Willihammer
03-16-2013, 04:34 PM
I know the organizatio has invested heavily in Hicks and Parmelee but neither has unseated Mastroianni for a starting job in my mind. They've all had good springs but Mastro has proven he can play at the MLB level while Parmelee has flopped there and Hicks hasn't even seen AAA.

Similarly for the middle infield and Carroll. Florimon is the shortstop now, and we're going just ignore the fact that Carroll continues to draw more walks and play comparable defense? Heck I'm a dozier guy and the same could be said about 2B. Its bad enough we'll have to put one of those guys out there everyday, why put them both out there if we don't have to?

fairweather
03-16-2013, 05:18 PM
"Deduno and Walters are not on the 40 man roster which reduces their chance of being on the Opening Day roster, but if they pitch well in Rochester, they will get another opportunity."--especially because we can expect about as much success out of Correia and Pelfrey as the Twins hot in the past from similar pitchers named Marquis, Ortiz, Ponson ect.

h2oface
03-16-2013, 05:34 PM
Deduno has performed great on a massively more competitive stage than ST. That is his spring training, and he has been awesome. DeVries' ST is just that.... ST. Personally, I am not convinced a very mediocre minor league career equates to a stud because of a spring training, and am not fooled. I am amazed how many think Hendricks is so promising. What does it take.... 20 starts in a row without a win? It's like Hendricks gets the Big 10 (higher education.... fuzzy math... not ten teams) treatment for the NCAA tourney. He seems assigned continued promise, regardless of how he perform(ed)s against MLB batters.

fairweather
03-16-2013, 05:40 PM
In my fantasy world the Twins rotation would be Diamond, Worley, Deduno, DeVries, and Hernandez. Those free agent "additions" are going to hurt more than help. Look for another terrible start to the season for the Twins courtesy of the free agent "additions".

fairweather
03-16-2013, 05:44 PM
If Diamond started the season on the DL I'd go with Walters over Hendriks as the 6th starter in same said fantasy world in which the Twins didn't waste their money on Pelfrey and Correia.

fairweather
03-16-2013, 05:51 PM
If they had just pooled the moneys spent on Correia and Pelfrey, or as I call them the Corr-frey combo, on one decent starter like McCarthy, Dempster, Jackson, Marcum ect. just think how much more positive the general vibe around the Twins would be.

cmathewson
03-16-2013, 05:52 PM
If the Twins go with an extra bench bat rather than three catchers, I have a hard time believing they would go with Benson as a "bench bat". He needs to play everyday. So the bench bat battle is between Wilkin Ramirez, Brandon Boggs, Chris Colabello and Jeff Clement. Because of Parmalee's versatility, I would go with one of the outfielders. Boggs is a switch hitter who can play all three outfield spots, so...

The only problem with that is 40-man roster issues. Say they take Boggs, DeVries, Deduno and Walters north. If so, they would need four new roster spots. I think they could DFA Woods and Butera because of their price tags. But I can't find other DFA candidates (unless you count Roenicke and Pinto). They might be forced by roster constraints to keep guys like Hendriks and Robertson rather than Deduno and Walters.

mike wants wins
03-16-2013, 06:02 PM
How long before a guy does not need to play everyday, and he is a bench guy?

old nurse
03-16-2013, 06:09 PM
Because Ryan basically insulted Santana with his extension offer on his way out the door, leaving Smith with essentially no chance of re-signing him, forcing him to make a deal. Pierzynski was dealt because of Mauer's presence, but could have easily been kept as a backup C/DH at the time.


SF gave up a good package because AJ was a useful player entering his prime at a position that's starved for offense. It wasn't like they were getting sure-thing prospects in return, but they panned out better than prospects generally do.

The Mets ended up giving up less in their deal because they knew the Twins' hand was forced, and all of baseball knew Santana had one foot out the door the second he turned down Ryan's "competitive" 5/$100M offer. The prospects they got in return ended up being essentially useless during their Twins tenure, but making a deal was something Smith had to do given the circumstances.

Santana expressed a desire to leave long before the Ryan offer. As there were only a few teams at that time that would be able to meet Santana's salary demands that limited any leverage Smith had. The less that the Mets had to offer was a reflection of what was in their system at the time. Gomez, Guerra and Humber were top 100 in the minors prospects. Mulvey was not thought of as an throw in type of player. The Twins got less because Smith wouldn't go for the better package that Boston offered, He thought he needed a center fielder and Boston would not give up Ellesbury. How different the Twins would have been with Lowrie and Lester

Of course if the Twins would have kept Santana, had him sign with the Yankees and drafted the player California did with that pick they would be calling Smith a genius.

Thrylos
03-16-2013, 06:21 PM
The only problem with that is 40-man roster issues...

I think that the Twins can open 5-6 spots on their 40-man roster tomorrow if they wanted to:

Alex Burnett
Casey Fien
Ryan Pressly
Tyler Robertson
Josh Roenicke
Caleb Thielbar
Tim Wood

Pick the 4-5 who do not make it to the MLB roster

and

Drew Butera

that's 5-6

cmathewson
03-16-2013, 06:29 PM
Also, just checked and DeVries is on the 40-man. Deduno, Walters, Ramirez and Boggs are not. Only two of those are likely to make the team, though.

Fien has an option. Robertson would get claimed. Not sure about the others, but probably not.

old nurse
03-16-2013, 06:33 PM
I think that the Twins can open 5-6 spots on their 40-man roster tomorrow if they wanted to:

Alex Burnett
Casey Fien
Ryan Pressly
Tyler Robertson
Josh Roenicke
Caleb Thielbar
Tim Wood

Pick the 4-5 who do not make it to the MLB roster

and

Drew Butera

that's 5-6
you forgot Correia and the loser of Floriman and Escobar battle

Seth Stohs
03-16-2013, 06:38 PM
I think the Twins agree with you. They will probably continue to ignore it. Is that your recommendation?

If it is an illusion, then how is it possible that over several years and each year Molina does consistently well and Doumit does consistently poorly? Remember that this is supported by a sample of thousands of pitches. Both have played with multiple teams. Inexperienced staffs? How does that explain Jaso's performance with virtually the same staff as Molina? How about Chris Snyder vs. Doumit?

I would have gone into spring training with a different plan for back up catcher. I am not sure if we should project what the Twins will do or should do. I think they should find a back up at catcher that will be an asset to the young staff. I think Doumit should be in a Jim Thome role. At this Butera is the only option until someone is DFA'd by another team.

Like I said, you can look at it however you want. In watching pretty much every game last year, at no point did I say, Man, Doumit is a terrible catcher or doesn't frame the ball well.

As far as whether we should look at what the Twins will do or what they should do, I'm not smart enough or arrogant enough to think that my method of thinking is more right than theirs. They aren't even arrogant enough to claim that every decision they make is the right one.

cmathewson
03-16-2013, 06:52 PM
Correia is going to start in the opening series. Period. Florimon is about 90% the starter at short. Escobar will make the team as a second utility guy.

Seth Stohs
03-16-2013, 07:37 PM
Seth, you have 11 sure-thing position players right now, so it's safe to say the two remaining spots go to two of the following:

Hicks
Butera
Ramirez
Boggs
Colabello
Clement

You indicate that Butera and Hicks are the leading candidates, but if *neither of them* which two do you think have the advantage out of the remaining four?

My sense is Benson and then probably Colabello or Clement.

diehardtwinsfan
03-16-2013, 08:19 PM
Santana expressed a desire to leave long before the Ryan offer. As there were only a few teams at that time that would be able to meet Santana's salary demands that limited any leverage Smith had. The less that the Mets had to offer was a reflection of what was in their system at the time. Gomez, Guerra and Humber were top 100 in the minors prospects. Mulvey was not thought of as an throw in type of player. The Twins got less because Smith wouldn't go for the better package that Boston offered, He thought he needed a center fielder and Boston would not give up Ellesbury. How different the Twins would have been with Lowrie and Lester

Of course if the Twins would have kept Santana, had him sign with the Yankees and drafted the player California did with that pick they would be calling Smith a genius.
This would be great if Boston actually offered that package. Too bad they didnt.

Mr. Brooks
03-16-2013, 08:58 PM
Sources: Red Sox willing to deal Ellsbury or Lester, not both - MLB - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138088)

ScottyB
03-16-2013, 10:06 PM
One of Boston's offers was in fact Lester, Lowrie, Justin Masterson and Coco Crisp, but that has nothing to do with the topic of this year's roster, so bringing it back to the discussion.

Personally, I'm not seeing Florimon adding much to the equation. If it was me, Escobar makes the team as the starting shortstop and emergency catcher, Florimon gets sent down along with Butera, and that opens two bench spots for a couple of decent bats. Butera and Florimon are a phone call away at Rochester in an emergency. Florimon is batting .222 while Escobar is batting .333, and in my opinion Escobar is a more consistent fielder than Florimon who last year had a tendency to make spectactular plays and blow some routine ones.

AM.
03-17-2013, 05:24 AM
In my fantasy world the Twins rotation would be Diamond, Worley, Deduno, DeVries, and Hernandez. Those free agent "additions" are going to hurt more than help. Look for another terrible start to the season for the Twins courtesy of the free agent "additions".

Hmmm...mine might be more like: Verlander, Hernandez, Price, Strasburg, and Halladay.

Shane Wahl
03-17-2013, 09:11 AM
My sense is Benson and then probably Colabello or Clement.

I cannot see Benson! If there is a candidate in question who needs more time playing every day it is undoubtedly him. And aside from drawing a nice amount of walks this spring, his offense has been below average. Put that together with the disaster that was last season, and I can't justify making Joe the 4th OF. Platoon with Parmelee is better, but we know what Gardy would likely think of that.

Now that Colabello is down to Rochester, I would think that maybe it is going to be Hicks and Ramirez? Ramirez is a RH slugging option off the bench. Clement would be the 4th first basemen and hits from the wrong side of the plate. Maybe by May the Twins will have a 14-11 roster breakdown (one can always hope).

Also, Ramirez could pinch hit for Parmelee against lefties late. If Mastro pinch runs for Willingham, the late inning OF defense of Mastro-Hicks-and Ramirez is not too shabby.

Seth Stohs
03-17-2013, 09:33 AM
I think you're right in the sense that Benson shouldn't be a 4th OF quite yet. I'm glad that the Twins stuck with him through that initial struggle, realizing he was so far behind after being hurt all of last season and not being able to play and train throughout the offseason either. He's been much better and likely needs to continue to play most every day.

I like Wilkin Ramirez. Loved when they signed him a year ago. He's still not old and does have power. I like that he's right-handed and could platoon with Parmelee as well as pinch hit.

jorgenswest
03-17-2013, 09:57 AM
The Twins need to keep Benson if they send down Hicks. Ramirez is not a good defender anywhere in the OF. Boggs is a LF option.

I would send down Hicks for the extra year of control and then flip him with Benson in late April. They would be trading three weeks of his rookie season for all of his 2019 season. Benson would still get plenty of playing time in AAa.

Willihammer
03-17-2013, 01:24 PM
Like I said, you can look at it however you want. In watching pretty much every game last year, at no point did I say, Man, Doumit is a terrible catcher or doesn't frame the ball well.

You haven't noticed the head duck? Its like a tell. He only does it when he's bluffing, and he never gets the call. He's doing it again right now, catching Worley

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/u/images/20110521_doumit_avila.gif

Brandon
03-17-2013, 04:06 PM
Back to the rotation. My top 5 predictions are Worely, Hendriks, DeVries Corriea and either Dedunno or Pelfry with the spot Pelfry's to lose as of today. (Diamond starts on DL and Pelfry could start there too to work on mechanis for 20 days)

Hendriks and DeVries are tied as I see it so whoever is pitching better at the time someone comes back the other goes down.

Walters may get a shot in the pen. I dont want to see Corriea in the rotation at this point. Too bad i dont get a say in that. Dedunno and Walters are most likely to be sent down because of contract status and be the 7th and 8th starters this year. I think when Pelfry gets his mechanics down probably around the allstar break up until his arm wears out for the season he will be a solid pitcher.

Brandon
03-17-2013, 04:11 PM
Back to the rotation. My top 5 predictions are Worely, Hendriks, DeVries Corriea and either Dedunno or Pelfry with the spot Pelfry's to lose as of today. (Diamond starts on DL and Pelfry could start there too to work on mechanis for 20 days)

Hendriks and DeVries are tied as I see it so whoever is pitching better at the time someone comes back the other goes down.

Walters may get a shot in the pen. I dont want to see Corriea in the rotation at this point. Too bad i dont get a say in that. Also i did not mean to say he wont start this year in my earlier post. just that he isnt pitching up to someone wh deserves a spot. Dedunno and Walters are most likely to be sent down because of contract status and be the 7th and 8th starters this year. I think when Pelfry gets his mechanics down probably around the allstar break up until his arm wears out for the season he will be a solid pitcher.

With all of the pitchers comming back from injury how much sense would it make to go with a 6 man rotation for a while starting late april though June?

3up3down
03-17-2013, 07:56 PM
So you guys still see Hendriks ahead of DeVries,walters & Deduno?why? What do these guys have to do to move ahead of him, all 3 of them have been lights out this spring & all had better showings in the bigs...I Am still not sold on Deduno , just too many pitches & will tax the pen.. I don't think it was a good idea for Hendriks to disagree with Gardy on his pitch selection..maybe that will help them give these other guys a shot at that spot..

Mr. Brooks
03-17-2013, 08:08 PM
So you guys still see Hendriks ahead of DeVries,walters & Deduno?why? What do these guys have to do to move ahead of him, all 3 of them have been lights out this spring & all had better showings in the bigs...I Am still not sold on Deduno , just too many pitches & will tax the pen.. I don't think it was a good idea for Hendriks to disagree with Gardy on his pitch selection..maybe that will help them give these other guys a shot at that spot..

Personally, I like Hendricks above those other guys because Hendricks is the only one of those guys that I view as a medium to long term MLB pitcher, albeit a back end one, but still.
And, since its a lost season, I'd just assume give Hendricks 190 innings and see what happens. Its time to find out if he can be a 4 or 5 in this league, and we arent going to know from short stints and/or time at AAA.

jorgenswest
03-17-2013, 08:43 PM
Personally, I like Hendricks above those other guys because Hendricks is the only one of those guys that I view as a medium to long term MLB pitcher, albeit a back end one, but still.
And, since its a lost season, I'd just assume give Hendricks 190 innings and see what happens. Its time to find out if he can be a 4 or 5 in this league, and we arent going to know from short stints and/or time at AAA.

I agree. Hendriks is much younger. He has been much better in AA and AAA. He is the only one with upside.

Look at Viola's first two seasons and 56 starts at a similar age. He was the worst pitcher in baseball. Look at Radke. Santana's first two seasons from the pen were terrible. The only way to find out if Hendriks is to put him out there every fifth day and be patient in the investment.

Kwak
03-17-2013, 10:40 PM
Does your arm hurt when these guys "pitch too many pitches". Deduno would only "tax the pen" (which is why they are there in the first place) by religiously adhering to the philosophy of "manage by pitch count". That might be OK for a pitcher in his early 20's that the team has plans to keep him long-term--but for a guy who is in his late 20's and who is rojected to be a place-holder for a year or two, it isn't. Part of what is hurting the franchise is rigid adherence to philosophy and style rather than end result. It seems that winning isn't sufficient if winning wasn't done "the right way". If Deduno requires 120 pitches to go six innings of three or less, so be it. Gardehire's (and also Ryan's) arm will be just fine the next day.

stringer bell
03-18-2013, 05:16 AM
I just got back from Ft. Myers and I would like to remind all here of a couple of things: 1) While it is fun to speculate, the reality is that the roster will look considerably different by midseason and that everybody who is being considered will most likely have the chance to establish themselves at some time this year. 2) This season IMHO, is about players like Plouffe, Parmelee and Dozier (among position players) solidifying their role as big-league starters. I am betting on all three to thrive, but odds are one or more will fail and become failed prospects. On the pitching side, it is disappointing that Gibson was sent out early, but he will be the first call-up if he is effective at Rochester and it is a near-certainty that everybody in Rochester and New Britain who pitches well will get their chance with the Twins. FWIW, I think Hendriks and De Vries both start in the rotation as Diamond is brought along slowly, Walters makes the club as sixth starter/long man and Pressley gets a spot. My prediction is that Sweet Drew makes the club as the 25th man, despite little need for a third catcher.

NoCryingInBaseball
03-18-2013, 08:34 AM
I am in total agreement with Stringer bell that this year is about the development of the three position players solidifying their roles as big leaguers, with Parmelee possibly moving to 1st come trade deadline time. This isn’t the year of solidifying the starting rotation, too many young prospects need more time in the minors. I am hoping that one or two of the Hendriks, De Vries, Walters & Deduno group work their way to a part of the rotation by mid-season, maybe forcing management to move Correia to the bullpen.

cmathewson
03-18-2013, 09:17 AM
The Twins need to keep Benson if they send down Hicks. Ramirez is not a good defender anywhere in the OF. Boggs is a LF option.

I would send down Hicks for the extra year of control and then flip him with Benson in late April. They would be trading three weeks of his rookie season for all of his 2019 season. Benson would still get plenty of playing time in AAa.

I agree that they need an everyday center fielder, and Maestro is not it. But he's a better fit for this team than Benson. When they lost Span, they lost their lead-off hitter. Replacing him with a patient hitter is vital. Benson is not that type of hitter.

But I question sending Hicks down in the first place. He's the best replacement for Span--he's more patient, has better range, a better arm, more power and is a better base stealer than Span. He's certainly better than Maestro and Benson at those skills. The Twins continue to put up the facade of a competition, but this was all-but won when he played outstanding defense against the Red Sox.

Everybody on this board seems to think that the Twins place a high priority on controlling service time. There is little evidence of this in the last 10 years. They sign the guys they want to keep to long-term deals before arbitration. Also, Terry Ryan has said he doesn't care. He was asked point blank by Bernadino and he said "Why would you even think that?" "Because fans are saying it." "Well, they're wrong." It makes no sense to entertain something that has been proven wrong by both Ryan's words and actions.

nicksaviking
03-18-2013, 10:38 AM
People sure didn't like the Francisco Liriano trade at the time, but it's pretty clear that it was yet another great trade by Terry Ryan. Liriano continued his struggles with the White Sox and then left and went to the National League. In Escobar, the Twins have a utility player for the next five or six years, and possibly a long, lefty reliever for the next 6-7 years... pretty nice.

I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. Escobar has hardly played for the Twins at the MLB level and Hernandez has yet to do so. I'm not saying Escobar won't be a Twin for five or six years but this is already his last option year. If his bat doesn't develop, five or six years is a long time to waste a roster spot without exposing him to waivers, especially if he ends up getting competition from the likes of Rosario, Dozier and Santana going forward.

mike wants wins
03-18-2013, 10:44 AM
I think you're right in the sense that Benson shouldn't be a 4th OF quite yet. I'm glad that the Twins stuck with him through that initial struggle, realizing he was so far behind after being hurt all of last season and not being able to play and train throughout the offseason either. He's been much better and likely needs to continue to play most every day.

I like Wilkin Ramirez. Loved when they signed him a year ago. He's still not old and does have power. I like that he's right-handed and could platoon with Parmelee as well as pinch hit.


Seth, when is Benson a 4th OFer, though? If he's not great this year, can they have him on the roster next year as a 4th (likely faster, better arm, more power than Maestro)? I guess I'm asking, much like trying to keep a SP a SP instead of making him a good RP, when do you say "benson is really a 4th OFer)?

stringer bell
03-18-2013, 11:59 AM
Benson has an option left, correct? I would expect that he will be sent down and play every day for the Red Wings. If he can get it going there, then the Twins can look at giving him a bit more sporadic playing time in the majors. However, if Arcia hits as I expect, he will probably be promoted when (not if) either the Hammer or the Big Canadian get moved.

mike wants wins
03-18-2013, 12:10 PM
stringer, my question is more, how long do you go before you say "I get more out of Benson as a 4th OFer, than I do out of keeping him in AAA hoping he develops into a starter"? I mean, if he 's in AAA for two more years, and then is a 4th OFer, wouldn't you have gotten more out of him if he's a 4th OFer now, rather than, um, if Hicks isn't up, I have no idea who....At some point, you get value out of a guy either through him being up, by him being traded. So, how long do you wait, vs, just call him up and either see what you have, or use him as a 4th OFer?*

*I have no idea if that is what he really is, but at some point, you are better off getting ML use out of him, than waiting to see what he is or is not.

Dilligaf69
03-18-2013, 12:49 PM
Have to think Hicks and Maestro come north with Benson/Arcia playing everyday in AAA with callups at some point this season. Hicks may even be sent back down at some point with the other two getting an oppurtunity. Next yr When Justin is gone and probably Hammer then you have Hicks/Benson/Arcia/Maestro and parm at 1B. If everything falls into place that's probably what we are looking at in 2014.

stringer bell
03-18-2013, 01:45 PM
stringer, my question is more, how long do you go before you say "I get more out of Benson as a 4th OFer, than I do out of keeping him in AAA hoping he develops into a starter"? I mean, if he 's in AAA for two more years, and then is a 4th OFer, wouldn't you have gotten more out of him if he's a 4th OFer now, rather than, um, if Hicks isn't up, I have no idea who....At some point, you get value out of a guy either through him being up, by him being traded. So, how long do you wait, vs, just call him up and either see what you have, or use him as a 4th OFer?*

*I have no idea if that is what he really is, but at some point, you are better off getting ML use out of him, than waiting to see what he is or is not.I think Benson gets this year to re-establish himself as a potential starter. If he isn't up to it this year, he probably joins the Clete Thomases of the world as guys that will kick around and hope to "find it" maybe with the Twins, maybe with someone else. I really like Benson's tools and I don't see any point in having him play once or twice a week and otherwise serving as a pinch-runner and defensive replacement. However, if he can't get it going this year, it's probably time to move on to the next class.

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 01:51 PM
I agree. I think with a guy like Benson who has the tools, but for whatever reason may or may never develop them, that you keep giving them chances to be an everyday player until they run out of options.
Then, at that point, if they are good enough, you use up their cheap years as a 4th OF'er or some other minor role capacity, and then once they get to the point where they reach their 2nd or 3rd arb years, you move on again.

mike wants wins
03-18-2013, 01:54 PM
Thanks! Sounds reasonable as an approach, I guess. So a college guy, we'd wait until he is into his prime? Interesting, I have to think about the implications of that.

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 01:59 PM
Not necessarily. I'm only speaking for guys like Benson who have all the tools, but for whatever reason something isnt quite clicking.
Most of your 5 tool prospects are going to be drafted out of HS or as a 16 year old I'ntl signing.
I think you move on a lot sooner if the guy doesnt have the tools.

Seth Stohs
03-18-2013, 04:58 PM
Seth, when is Benson a 4th OFer, though? If he's not great this year, can they have him on the roster next year as a 4th (likely faster, better arm, more power than Maestro)? I guess I'm asking, much like trying to keep a SP a SP instead of making him a good RP, when do you say "benson is really a 4th OFer)?

It's a good question. One I'm trying to get a better feel for. Maybe it's more of a gut thing of when a guy is most likely not to be a regular. I'm trying to read that situation.

diehardtwinsfan
03-18-2013, 06:27 PM
You give a guy like Benson every chance to play every day until he's out of options and forces it. He's a 5 tool player who could have a top end ceiling of similar to Cuddyer with more speed and defense. His floor, which I think he's at right now, is a 4th OF. He needs a chance to develop those tools, and quite frankly he should get it as long as an opportunity provides. Once he's out of options, it's a different story, but until then, you give him the opportunity to start.

stringer bell
03-18-2013, 07:00 PM
You give a guy like Benson every chance to play every day until he's out of options and forces it. He's a 5 tool player who could have a top end ceiling of similar to Cuddyer with more speed and defense. His floor, which I think he's at right now, is a 4th OF. He needs a chance to develop those tools, and quite frankly he should get it as long as an opportunity provides. Once he's out of options, it's a different story, but until then, you give him the opportunity to start.I agree 100% about Joe. While his hitting has been subpar, he's apparently healthy and isn't beating himself up too much when he doesn't get a hit. The strikeouts continue to be too high, but slumps happen. As long as he has an option left, it is fine to send him down and wait (hope) for Joe to harness his tools.

Kwak
03-18-2013, 07:31 PM
Benson's floor?--is what last year was, and this season is shaping-up to be--a Bust! He's got about 2 months to show that he might become a MLB player or else be relegated. The Twins have many high-quality OF prospects that rising in the system.

diehardtwinsfan
03-18-2013, 08:00 PM
Benson can already give you elite CF defense. As long as that continues, his floor is a 4th OF. His offense is the issue at hand.

Physics Guy
03-18-2013, 08:28 PM
I agree for the most part that Benson can give above average to elite defense, but not sure he can hit enough yet to be a 4th OF. Doesn't he need to hit at least .250? I might put his floor at AAA OF, unless you are OK with a .220 4th OF. I don't think the Twins were, hence going from Komatsu to Thomas to Mastro last year. Benson did hit .239 in what was considered an unimpressive debut in 2011, so maybe he's not far off. He just needs to show that 2012 was about injuries and not regression.

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 09:03 PM
I agree for the most part that Benson can give above average to elite defense, but not sure he can hit enough yet to be a 4th OF. Doesn't he need to hit at least .250? I might put his floor at AAA OF, unless you are OK with a .220 4th OF. I don't think the Twins were, hence going from Komatsu to Thomas to Mastro last year. Benson did hit .239 in what was considered an unimpressive debut in 2011, so maybe he's not far off. He just needs to show that 2012 was about injuries and not regression.
I dont think he has to hit .250 to be a serviceable 4th OF'er so long as he can show some power.
Mastro is a career .248 hitter with NO power, and I think most of us agree he is a serviceable 4th OF'er, so I think .235 with power would be acceptable.

Mr. Brooks
03-18-2013, 09:06 PM
Benson's floor?--is what last year was, and this season is shaping-up to be--a Bust! He's got about 2 months to show that he might become a MLB player or else be relegated. The Twins have many high-quality OF prospects that rising in the system.

I'd say 2 months is a bit of an exaggeration. I mean, even if he only shows enough this year to relegate himself to 4th OF duty, he could still work his way into the line up after that.
It does however, make TR's job a lot easier if he DOES show us something in the first couple months, because if he shows he can be a competent every day outfielder that allows us to move Willy and Justin at the deadline.

cmathewson
03-18-2013, 09:31 PM
The battle between Benson and Hicks is a lot like the battle between Gomez and Span. Span was clearly the better player that spring, and Gomez clearly needed more time in AAA. But the Twins went the other way because they wanted to show some value for the Santana trade. In this case, there should be no such pressure.

mike wants wins
03-18-2013, 10:40 PM
True, but hicks sells tickets, benson does not, yet. I still have hope he is a .275 guy with great defense and some pop. But I would bet there is some pressure to have Hicks up. But I also doubt that matters to Ryan or Gardenhire.

Shane Wahl
03-18-2013, 11:44 PM
Let's calm all the homies down. There are plenty of approaches to take:

1: Start Mastroianni/Boggs at CF and delay on Hicks and Benson as they partake in AAA awesomeness.

2. Start Hicks (most likely scenario) and have Mastro as the 4th OF. Maybe even Ramirez as the fifth OF. This means that Benson, imagine this, should get some AAA batting time. Imagine that. They wrongly demoted him last year to AA in an abominably stupid move. So why not just give Benson the 3-spot in the Rochester order for awhile before relegating him to 4th OF status?

Clearly the floor is 4th OF: this guy is better than Mastro by a significant margin. Full stop. But that 4th OF option isn't really going to happen immediately. The 2013 could rightly end with Benson-Hicks-Arcia manning the OF.

jokin
03-19-2013, 12:41 AM
Let's calm all the homies down. There are plenty of approaches to take:

1: Start Mastroianni/Boggs at CF and delay on Hicks and Benson as they partake in AAA awesomeness.

2. Start Hicks (most likely scenario) and have Mastro as the 4th OF. Maybe even Ramirez as the fifth OF. This means that Benson, imagine this, should get some AAA batting time. Imagine that. They wrongly demoted him last year to AA in an abominably stupid move. So why not just give Benson the 3-spot in the Rochester order for awhile before relegating him to 4th OF status?

Clearly the floor is 4th OF: this guy is better than Mastro by a significant margin. Full stop. But that 4th OF option isn't really going to happen immediately. The 2013 could rightly end with Benson-Hicks-Arcia manning the OF.

Abominable? Characterizing a demotion as something akin to the torture of prisoners might be a wee bit harsh?

They do have the very separate interests of the AAA team's ownership to consider.

jun
03-19-2013, 09:40 AM
I saw Pedro Hernandez pitching in the game on TV today. Not too bad. I don't think he is going to be with the Twins, but if they need an extra starter, he is an option (and he is lefty)

Starters: De Vries, Diamond, Pelfrey, Correia, Worley (Deduno would be the 6th starter or long reliever)
Bullpen: Perkins, Burton, Duensing, Hernandez, Pressly, Walters, Deduno. (Fien would be the extra)

jun
03-19-2013, 09:44 AM
I agree for the most part that Benson can give above average to elite defense, but not sure he can hit enough yet to be a 4th OF. Doesn't he need to hit at least .250? I might put his floor at AAA OF, unless you are OK with a .220 4th OF. I don't think the Twins were, hence going from Komatsu to Thomas to Mastro last year. Benson did hit .239 in what was considered an unimpressive debut in 2011, so maybe he's not far off. He just needs to show that 2012 was about injuries and not regression.

I totally agree, we don't need another Butera in the outfield since we have one as the catcher and another one as the middle infielder. Enough is enough.

jun
03-19-2013, 09:57 AM
I really see another year where the starting staff is in flux most of the season. We have 3 gimpy arms in Diamond, Pelfrey, and Worley. Our addition of Correria is to be an innings eater but his history would suggest he will be demoted to the bullpen at some point due to ineffectivess and Hendriks sent to AAA for more refinement. I haven't seen the improvement in Hendriks to warrant a spot in the rotation. Still no out pitch and very much suseptible to the long ball. A long look at Deduno, Hernandez, Walters and De Vries (a continued pleasand surprise) needs to be done yet this spring. My starters going North would be Worley, Pelfrey, Correria (only cuz I hafta), DeVries, Deduno. ( Diamond DL)
The bullpen isn't that hard to figure out. Perkins-closer. Burton-setup Duensing-LH specialist. Fien should be in as a 7th inning guy. Pressley wins a spot, you can always return him to the Sox later if he falters, Wood-paying him, so he comes North. So the final spot goes to either Roenicke, Robertson, Hernandez, or Burnett. Right now I'd go with Hernandez. LH has done well this spring. Robertson is to inconsistent. Burnett goes back to AAA with his option and poor pitching. Roenicke you pass through wavers and hope for the best.

Agreed. However I believe Hernandez has earned a spot in the bullpen. Fien would be the 7th or 8th man in the bullen.

jokin
03-19-2013, 10:01 AM
Starters: De Vries, Diamond, Pelfrey, Correia, Worley (Deduno would be the 6th starter or long reliever)
Bullpen: Perkins, Burton, Duensing, Hernandez, Pressly, Walters, Deduno. (Fien would be the extra)

Your SP projection is close, but if Diamond is scheduled to have his first start on April 12, Deduno, or someone else, is getting at least a start or two in early April.

Regarding the BP, a few things we know for certain:

1) The Twins won't have the next 3-4 potential starters on their depth chart as role players in the bullpen. Duensing, for sure, but at most, only one of the other 3, likely dependent on...

2) ...Just how soon Swarzak becomes available for long relief. The Twins do love their mop-up man doing all the hard mopping.

3) And they love Burnett, too. And Fien has done nothing to change their plans for him, either. And Wood is there to justify his signing.

jun
03-19-2013, 10:22 AM
I have a hard time seeing Benson or Escobar on the major league roster as backups. While that maybe their ceilings, I don't think we can say that for sure, yet. They both need regular AB's and a chance to improve their games, if you believe either can be a major league regular. Having Escobar around as a backup to the utility man(Carroll) doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Benson almost certainly needs regular AB's at this point of his career to be productive. He wouldn't get that as the 5th OF and probably wouldn't as the 4th.

I think Butera makes the team. His presence doesn't take AB's from Mauer or Doumit, on the contrary, his presence or somebody like him, probably means those 2 get more AB's. If Butera takes a few AB's from some other backup, which is really the case, that isn't going to hurt the offense that much.

I think DeVries makes the team, either as the 5th starter or a long reliever. Although there are ways for Deduno to make the team, he probably begins in AAA. Burnett hasn't pitched himself to AAA, yet, but he better step it up. I think the Twins keep Pressly, his upside is probably higher than Roenicke or Wood and they can't keep all three.

I think Robertson goes to AAA and the Twins want to keep Hernandez starting, at least for now, so he goes to AAA as well.

As far as comparing MacPhail and Ryan. Ryan did a much better job getting his team to the postseason and having a competitive team year after year. Ryan was/is much better at building a farm system. MacPhail had 2 teams get to the postseason, neither of whom was among the top 10 teams in baseball in those years, by most measures. That those teams won was probably a greater testiment to Kelly's skill as a manager than MacPhail's at roster building. It was another example of getting hot and lucky in the postseason rather than having the best team in the postseason.

I agree with you Benson should not be on the major league roster. However I have a hard time to find any difference between Escobar and Florimon except that Escobar has hit better than Florimon in the spring. I really don't understand why people are so high on Florimon, he is clearly the Butera in the middle infield. Btw, is his defense really that good?

stringer bell
03-20-2013, 10:19 PM
The bullpen is still shaking out IMHO. I think the Twins want a third lefty in the 'pen and I think Robertson has pitched himself into contention. Ryan told me he liked what he saw a week ago when he faced Tampa. He has had one outing since and pitched two scoreless innings. I think Burnett is now on the outside looking in and that one bullpen spot will be going to someone who is not making the starting rotation. Right now I see Diamond and Swarzak DLed, Worley, Correia, Pelfrey, De Vrieze, and Deduno starting, with Walters, going to the bullpen. The rest of the bullpen: Perkins, Burton, Duensing, Robertson, Fien, and Pressley. That would necessitate making space for Walters and Deduno. Wood and Roenicke could both be outrighted, I guess.

stringer bell
03-21-2013, 05:02 AM
After sleeping on it, I have changed my bullpen projection. I think Roenicke makes the club at the expense of Fien. Roenicke is more suited to long relief and Fien has that option remaining. I like Fien and expect he will be back with the Twins before April is over, but without having a true long man it probably makes sense to keep Roenicke.