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Brock Beauchamp
03-10-2013, 08:40 PM
We had a few issues with the site update and some unexpected "surprises" during the transition.

So, if you see a problem, something doesn't work as expected, etc., post it here and be sure to list what browser you're using. Thanks.

FrodaddyG
03-10-2013, 10:42 PM
Is there a reason the posts are now smashed into a significantly narrower area in the middle of the browser window and don't scale when I widen now? It's borderline intolerable to try and read anything with a stat line at this point due to cutoff/wraparound text. Seeing an inch or so of gray border on either side of the exact same size window I've always used is proving irritating.

righty8383
03-11-2013, 12:51 AM
It still says Beloit Snappers in the sub-header under "on the farm"

clutterheart
03-11-2013, 01:26 AM
I would like to know who the author is before I click the link.
That seems to have disappeared.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 07:52 AM
I would like to know who the author is before I click the link.
That seems to have disappeared.

That was a casualty of the transition bug and we never intended for it to be removed. It has been put back on the site now.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 07:56 AM
Is there a reason the posts are now smashed into a significantly narrower area in the middle of the browser window and don't scale when I widen now? It's borderline intolerable to try and read anything with a stat line at this point due to cutoff/wraparound text. Seeing an inch or so of gray border on either side of the exact same size window I've always used is proving irritating.

The site is actually wider than it was previously... About 80 pixels wider. The forum sidebar was a difficult design choice, particularly for me because I put a really strong emphasis on the forums. Basically, we had to come up with a way to better integrate the other site features into the forum area. The only way to do that is with a sidebar but we couldn't make the sidebar collapsable if we hosted ads over there... So, in the end, we pinched the forums a wee bit. It's not really that big of a difference, though... Maybe 180 pixels smaller than the old size.

It was not an easy choice but it's one that had to be made, IMO.

JB_Iowa
03-11-2013, 08:07 AM
With IE 10 on the front page, the avatars are not translucent and partially cover up the left side of the title of articles, etc. in the bar on the right side. On this page, the title is over the top of the avatar but it is still difficult to read. I tried playing with both my resolution and my zoom (under view) but neither helped to resolve the problem.

In Chrome they are more faded so the title stands out against the avatar and is quite legible.

Have to go explore the new look a little more but other than that, what I've seen so far looks great. Congrats.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 08:13 AM
With IE 10 on the front page, the avatars are not translucent and partially cover up the left side of the title of articles, etc. in the bar on the right side. On this page, the title is over the top of the avatar but it is still difficult to read. I tried playing with both my resolution and my zoom (under view) but neither helped to resolve the problem.

In Chrome they are more faded so the title stands out against the avatar and is quite legible.

Have to go explore the new look a little more but other than that, what I've seen so far looks great. Congrats.

Figures that IE10 would bring new and exciting bug rendering to the Internet Explorer family. It's the one version of IE I don't readily have access to for testing.

I'll look into it, though... When I checked the site last week, it was working as expected in IE9 but after all the hassle during the transition, something could have gone wrong.

jay
03-11-2013, 08:50 AM
With IE 10 on the front page, the avatars are not translucent and partially cover up the left side of the title of articles, etc. in the bar on the right side. On this page, the title is over the top of the avatar but it is still difficult to read. I tried playing with both my resolution and my zoom (under view) but neither helped to resolve the problem.


Still running IE8 here at work and having a similar issue. The avatar stays within the table, but bleeds out to the right under the article/blog title and author info.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 08:51 AM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1443-Welcome-to-the-New-Twins-Daily!

jay
03-11-2013, 08:52 AM
The avatar stays within the table, but bleeds out to the right under the article/blog title and author info.

The avatar actually covers up part of the title and author info on the front page. It's in the forums like this that it stays under the title and author.

JB_Iowa
03-11-2013, 08:55 AM
Thanks. I'll just use FF or Chrome for now - no big deal except for new users.

Just want to add that I like the color coding on the thumbnails on the forum page. Nice to be able to tell at a glance what threads I've responded to -- and to separate out articles, off-site articles and regular threads. I also like the alt feature that lets me see the first few lines of a regular post -- kind of a mini-preview of the author's mood.

I am a little curious about why the regular article thumbnails go gray when that thread is read and none of the others change. (But it is just curiosity so you don't need to rush to respond).

Oh, and the good thing is that I got my paragraphs back with the upgrade.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 08:56 AM
Still running IE8 here at work and having a similar issue. The avatar stays within the table, but bleeds out to the right under the article/blog title and author info.

Yeah, that's because IE8 doesn't support transparency. If you have the ability to stop using that browser in favor of something that isn't mired in 2005 technology, I'd suggest doing so.

JB_Iowa
03-11-2013, 09:02 AM
Just to clarify the issue, though, the avatar covers the left side of the title in IE10 when you are on the home page or reading an article. In the forum pages, the title does go on top of the avatar but the avatar is only partially faded (not really translucent).

FrodaddyG
03-11-2013, 09:02 AM
The site is actually wider than it was previously... About 80 pixels wider. The forum sidebar was a difficult design choice, particularly for me because I put a really strong emphasis on the forums. Basically, we had to come up with a way to better integrate the other site features into the forum area. The only way to do that is with a sidebar but we couldn't make the sidebar collapsable if we hosted ads over there... So, in the end, we pinched the forums a wee bit. It's not really that big of a difference, though... Maybe 180 pixels smaller than the old size.

It was not an easy choice but it's one that had to be made, IMO.
I suppose the difference would make more of a stink with me if I could foresee myself checking in here more than once a week before too long. Oh well.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 09:06 AM
Just to clarify the issue, though, the avatar covers the left side of the title in IE10 when you are on the home page or reading an article. In the forum pages, the title does go on top of the avatar but the avatar is only partially faded (not really translucent).

Is it fixed now? I just changed some code but I don't have the ability to check it in IE10 right now.

JB_Iowa
03-11-2013, 09:13 AM
No, it isn't fixed. And when I tried to click on the link to this thread from the homepage, I got a message about long-running script. When I clicked stop script, the page opened.

mike wants wins
03-11-2013, 09:25 AM
Did you change the font? It looks different at work today.....if so, not a fan of the choice. It seems blocky to me.

Me, i go straight to the forums most of the time. The new front page seems pretty cluttered on the iPad, frankly. The scrunched up forums section on the right just isn't that nice, imo. The old was much easier to read/see/find.

Don't get me wrong, I love that you guys have this site up and running, and maybe I'll get used to the changes.....

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 09:35 AM
No, it isn't fixed. And when I tried to click on the link to this thread from the homepage, I got a message about long-running script. When I clicked stop script, the page opened.

Strange. I'll have to troubleshoot it more in-depth when I can get a copy of IE10 in front of me. I did an online screentest using IE10 and it rendered correctly.

Bah, I hate IE so much. It keeps getting better but it was so far behind every other browser on the market that despite its improvements, it's still behind what everybody else is doing.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 09:37 AM
Did you change the font? It looks different at work today.....if so, not a fan of the choice. It seems blocky to me.

Me, i go straight to the forums most of the time. The new front page seems pretty cluttered on the iPad, frankly. The scrunched up forums section on the right just isn't that nice, imo. The old was much easier to read/see/find.

The only difference in body font should be that it is now a few points larger in size. I did change some title fonts, though.j

Not to be defensive about it but oh man, I disagree about iPad viewing. I tested this new skin extensively on the iPad with the purpose of making it much more tablet friendly, as tablets are about 10% of our viewing audience now. Bigger fonts, eliminating the side scrolling advert, larger sections, etc. IMO, it's a thousand times cleaner and easier to use on a tablet.

But to each their own, I suppose.

mike wants wins
03-11-2013, 10:11 AM
Admittedly, I was sick all weekend, so my experience was likely influenced by that.....I promise to look again and comment.

JB_Iowa
03-11-2013, 10:19 AM
I didn't look at it with an ipad or phone but when I look at it in the Metro browser, it lays out nicely (although the IE10 problem is still there). Overall, it does look cleaner than the old site.

Mike, I think you need to play with the zoom a little until you get used to something that feels good to you. I'm used to having my zoom at about 150% (old eyes) but the new site looks better at about 100% - 125%. The font doesn't seem different to me but it does seem a bit bigger -- playing with zoom alleviated that feeling of "too big".

But when Mike says that the forums section looks "scrunched up", I think that has to do with the relationship of the avatars and text. The avatars are nice for immediately recognizing who posted the thread (if the person used an avatar) but they do add to a more cluttered feeling -- even in FF or Chrome. Since they are only on the left side of the title, it gives a bit of a feeling of conflict or clutter or something being wrong.

And it emphasizes the person who made the original post whereas I think most people are more likely to check for the person who made the last post.

While I think people will get used to it, I'm just not sure it adds much to have the avatar for the original poster and I can see Mikes point about clutter in the forum section.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 10:26 AM
We had some discussions about the avatar. Personally, I base a lot of whether I click into a thread on its creator. I'll almost always read a Nick Nelson, Seth Stohs, or John Bonnes thread but some other posters, I... stay away. I may be in the minority there, though.

As for bigger text, it's a design trend. Earlier, it seemed like sites were trying to pack more and more onto each page, sacrificing readability in the meantime. Now, the trend is to reverse that with bigger fonts that are easier to read. That's the reason for the larger fonts you see throughout the site now. That problem is only compounded when you realize that now, people are actually browsing the web on smaller devices than ever before. Just two years ago, the 10" iPad was the smallest (non-phone) device used by people to browse the internet. Now, we're seeing a rash of 7-8" tablets, which render pages at such a small size that text on many sites is unreadable. I didn't want that to be the case with TD.

JB_Iowa
03-11-2013, 10:32 AM
Brock,

I suppose there's just not room to have the text to the side of the avatar instead of over it?

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 10:33 AM
Brock,

I suppose there's just not room to have the text to the side of the avatar instead of over it?

I could make that work, I just liked the overflow of the design. I'm going to spend more time looking into it once I get some of this other stuff sorted out.

raindog
03-11-2013, 10:40 AM
IE10 follows HTML standards as good as any browser. It's actually pretty excellent.

That said, the site has looks great of FF. I haven't been able to use IE much yet.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 10:50 AM
IE10 follows HTML standards as good as any browser.

No, it really doesn't. It still scores low on the HTML5 test compared to Chrome and every other major browser on the market.

But the key difference is that Chrome/Firefox/Safari/etc. update every few weeks. IE updates every blue moon. If IE10 is behind in standards compliance now, where they'll be by the time IE11 rolls out is very, very bad.

The HTML5 test - How well does your browser support HTML5? (http://html5test.com/results/desktop.html)

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 11:19 AM
I see what was happening on the front page sidebar... The widget avatars weren't z-indexing properly. I fixed it so you should no longer see part of the title clipped under the avatar, as it should sit above the avatar now.

jay
03-11-2013, 11:25 AM
Yeah, that's because IE8 doesn't support transparency. If you have the ability to stop using that browser in favor of something that isn't mired in 2005 technology, I'd suggest doing so.

Welcome to working for your federal government in 2013.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 11:29 AM
Welcome to working for your federal government in 2013.

Sorry about that. :D

But it's not only the Federal Government. Just last year, I was working with McDonnell Douglas and they mandated IE7 for use with all their in-house applications.

My head nearly exploded.

mike wants wins
03-11-2013, 11:47 AM
Dudes, I work for a fortune 25 company, IE6 was the standard last year......I believe we skipped to 8 last year......yup, just checked....IE8 on my work computer....

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 11:55 AM
Dudes, I work for a fortune 25 company, IE6 was the standard last year......I believe we skipped to 8 last year......yup, just checked....IE8 on my work computer....

Which is part of the reason why MS has earned such ill-will with developers over the past ten years. First, they tried to break standards entirely by creating IE6, the dungheap to best all dungheaps of internet browsers.

Then they held on to IE6 for damned near five years. Couple that with their policy of not giving older operating systems new browser updates (despite it being relatively easy to do), only updating their browser every 18 months, and they have earned every venomous statement cast in IE's direction over the past ten years.

And it's just not complaining. IE has significantly held back the advancement of the Internet by being such a flaming pile of junk that developers are hamstrung with nearly every project they start. It's a mess and it's my opinion that no one should use an MS browser, ever... At least until Microsoft proves that they're going to update regularly and play nice with standards for 2-3 dot-oh versions of the browser.

iastfan112
03-11-2013, 11:58 AM
Lots of good changes, the site looks cleaner and sharper as well as less intrusive feeling ads. That said, hate how scrunched the forum posts are. Feels pointlessly small on a 1080 monitor.

Jeremy Nygaard
03-11-2013, 12:05 PM
Brock,

The Roster & Payroll page is initially only viewable in the far left third of the page. If I click on the header on the page though, it opens up a much more viewer-friendly look. Appears that way on IE, Chrome and Android phone. Thanks. Love the new look.

Also, when it is bigger and looks normal, the columns don't appear the same as they used to (many players names spill onto a 2nd line).

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 12:05 PM
Lots of good changes, the site looks cleaner and sharper as well as less intrusive feeling ads. That said, hate how scrunched the forum posts are. Feels pointlessly small on a 1080 monitor.

You should see it on my 2560 resolution screen. :P

I would have loved to do a responsive design for the site but vB's architecture makes that incredibly unwieldy to even attempt. It'd be a full-time two month project for one person.

We'll be upgrading the software in about a year. I'm hoping that a responsive design will be feasible at that time (but I'm not holding my breath).

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 12:06 PM
Brock,

The Roster & Payroll page is initially only viewable in the far left third of the page. If I click on the header on the page though, it opens up a much more viewer-friendly look. Appears that way on IE, Chrome and Android phone. Thanks. Love the new look.

Thanks for reminding me. I have some plans for that page and ran out of time yesterday. I'll get on it now.

JB_Iowa
03-11-2013, 12:15 PM
The forum title posts are now over the avatar in IE10 but the avatars are still too bright to make reading the title easy. The background avatars are much brighter in IE10 than in chrome or FF.

Also, did you always have the thumbnail clicks down the left side of the top photo on the home page. I thought when I looked this morning it just scrolled among the pics from the articles. I really liked the look of the photo without the thumbnails (of course, maybe I just imagined that).

Thanks - just giving an update.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 12:54 PM
The forum title posts are now over the avatar in IE10 but the avatars are still too bright to make reading the title easy. The background avatars are much brighter in IE10 than in chrome or FF.

Also, did you always have the thumbnail clicks down the left side of the top photo on the home page. I thought when I looked this morning it just scrolled among the pics from the articles. I really liked the look of the photo without the thumbnails (of course, maybe I just imagined that).

Thanks - just giving an update.

Yeah, the thumbnails were always there but in proportion to the slider (that's what that slideshow thing is called), they were much larger. Now, they're the same size as before but the rest of the slider is much bigger. Oddly enough, I think making the rest of the slider large and keeping those small has made them more noticeable.

Physics Guy
03-11-2013, 01:07 PM
Nice upgrades. I appreciate the wider text area and larger font. Haven't checked it yet on the iPad, but it looks great on FF on my PC.

luke829
03-11-2013, 02:15 PM
The only problem I can see with the new site are all of the Summit ads (makes me thirsty).

mike wants wins
03-11-2013, 02:25 PM
However the over under royals story is set up, my Android phone does not support the plug in and cannot open that story.

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 02:29 PM
However the over under royals story is set up, my Android phone does not support the plug in and cannot open that story.

Are you using the mobile skin or the full site skin?

mike wants wins
03-11-2013, 02:47 PM
Are you using the mobile skin or the full site skin?

Mobile...which you may not have even changed.....

Brock Beauchamp
03-11-2013, 02:58 PM
Mobile...which you may not have even changed.....

Not meaningfully, anyway.

FWIW, I just tried to open that article on my iPhone and it bugged out on me. No dice.

Oh, John put a poll in there... I bet that is screwing something up.

clutterheart
03-11-2013, 05:21 PM
Thanks for being responsive and thanks for caring about the user experience.

Twins Twerp
03-11-2013, 10:34 PM
The fingerhut.com pop ads on android browser are such a pain in theass that I do not think I will be back to the site. I use the web version instead of mobile...easier to navigate until before mentioned ad popups.

mike wants wins
03-13-2013, 10:59 AM
Re-checked on the iPad last night, while not commenting on the vikings on another site.....I like it. So I retract that comment.

Brock Beauchamp
03-13-2013, 11:59 AM
Re-checked on the iPad last night, while not commenting on the vikings on another site.....I like it. So I retract that comment.

Glad you changed your mind. I didn't want to have to drive over there and teach you a lesson. :D

Ultima Ratio
03-18-2013, 02:38 PM
Will the green light come back to indicate a user is online?

Brock Beauchamp
03-20-2013, 08:13 AM
Will the green light come back to indicate a user is online?

Not in this incarnation of the site. My primary goal with this redesign was to clean up a lot of the "mess" that vBulletin installs by default. I wanted a site that was as sparse as possible and focused on content over (mostly frivolous) bells and whistles. That's why the blog listings, online light, and other information has been removed. I wanted to go even further with it but ran out of time (I was under some pretty intense deadlines with this redesign).

powrwrap
04-01-2013, 09:43 AM
Looks great on Firefox on my desktop PC monitor. Larger fonts, less clutter, just a cleaner, easier to read site. Thanks.

But kind of wondering why avatars fade out towards the bottom...