PDA

View Full Version : Article: What does Liam Hendriks need to do to succeed?



Parker Hageman
03-06-2013, 10:19 AM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1433-What-does-Liam-Hendriks-need-to-do-to-succeed

Willihammer
03-06-2013, 10:39 AM
Is there any example where a starting pitcher has succeeded with two different landing spots? Maybe if Hendriks stayed closed against LHB, but opened up against RHBs, he could have the best of both worlds.

fairweather
03-06-2013, 12:31 PM
Why not can the slider permanently? He's got a decent curve and a decent change so why does he need the slider?

3up3down
03-06-2013, 07:47 PM
I have watched every ST game except 1 ,watched all of Hendricks starts, his first start he was shaking his arm & acting like it was bothering him after giving up a couple hits....2nd start was better, looked better ,last start was ok but did not handle it well after willingham lost the ball in the sun, walking the next batter then giving up a hit for the 2nd run.. His stuff hasn't changed & it's not better. The best option for the 5th starter is Gibson but I just don't think he starts the season in the bigs, he should but I don't believe he will...then next is Devries & Walters , both are pitching well & stuff wise are clearly better than Hendricks. .a friend of mine that scouts & is scouting ST games has the same opinion & says he wonders why the twins are set on Hendricks when he thinks they have better options..

johnnydakota
03-06-2013, 07:56 PM
Well limite walks, limite baserunners, limite runs scored against,
All kidding aside, Liam will get his shots this year as well as Devries and Deuno me thinks,as we have 1 shoulder problem (harden) 2 T.J.s(Pelfrey n Gibson) and 3 chippers(worely,diamond, and liam ) so I will continue to believe there will be plenty of tickets leaving Rochester this season

Old Twins Cap
03-06-2013, 10:56 PM
What I see in Hendriks is that he has a different motion for the fastball vs the off-speed stuff. He actually slows down when he throws the off-speed stuff. I hope that Parker can document this on a real-time video. But, from my perspective, when your motion slows down and hitters know the off-speed stuff is coming, it's a a big tip-off. That might explain the difference between MLB and MiLB. In either case, I like this kid and think he has a future. He just has to iron out his delivery and what might be tipping his pitches.

Twinsfan46
03-07-2013, 12:57 AM
I have watched Hendriks a few times, and after each I wonder what all of his supporters see other than the minor league track record. His fastball is below average and his other pitches are worse. His mental approach seems lacking as well. I think I would like to see him traded after a few decent spring training starts. I know the Twins need pitching more than anything, but I just don't see him being any type of answer. The underlying stats even at AAA, to me, don't suggest a run that is sustainable.

In my mind he is a AAAA pitcher and that is not ultimately going to lead the Twins back to where they want to be.

Am I missing something?

glunn
03-07-2013, 01:11 AM
It seems to me that Hendriks needs an effective "out" pitch. If that can be his slider, then I think that he can succeed.

Last year I watched him pitch in Anaheim against the Angels in the game where Weaver threw the no hitter. It seemed like the Angels quickly adapted to Hendriks and kept fouling off pitches until he gave them something they could drive. It seemed to me that if he had a decent slider, then he could do a better job keeping the batters off balance.

jokin
03-07-2013, 01:43 AM
It seems to me that Hendriks needs an effective "out" pitch. If that can be his slider, then I think that he can succeed.

Last year I watched him pitch in Anaheim against the Angels in the game where Weaver threw the no hitter. It seemed like the Angels quickly adapted to Hendriks and kept fouling off pitches until he gave them something they could drive. It seemed to me that if he had a decent slider, then he could do a better job keeping the batters off balance.

I know we've had this conversation before, but gee whiz, CAN the slider if he can't master it or disguise it properly- and- CAN Cuellar teach this kid a cutter in short order? If he had an effective one, he'd have probably gotten that Angels guy to ground out or K, Glunn- and all these discussions about his flawed "mental approach" and "confidence level" become moot.

John Bonnes
03-07-2013, 07:34 AM
It seems to me that Hendriks needs an effective "out" pitch. If that can be his slider, then I think that he can succeed.

Last year I watched him pitch in Anaheim against the Angels in the game where Weaver threw the no hitter. It seemed like the Angels quickly adapted to Hendriks and kept fouling off pitches until he gave them something they could drive. It seemed to me that if he had a decent slider, then he could do a better job keeping the batters off balance.

Boy, I don't think you develop an out pitch in AAA. Or at least not in a matter of months. If this is what he needs, then he needs to stay in AAA and work through that.

3up3down
03-07-2013, 10:10 AM
twinsfan46, your not missing anything, you are dead on..

Jack Torse
03-08-2013, 05:14 AM
He should move a few inches over on the rubber. Look how it worked for Capps and Blacky.

Falcon25
03-08-2013, 10:46 AM
Twinsfan46 and 3up3down - thank god no one takes you seriously. You look at a young kid and you ignore the indicators in his development such as improved performances late last year. Statistically he was the best starter in the twins line up in the last month of last season that's not to say that he was brilliant but he had some good outings against some good opposition. Go back and do a pitch by pitch analysis of the yankees game and you will find that he pitched very well except that every mistake cost him dearly. He got away with nothing that day. His last game against the tigers was nothing short of very good against a quality opposition, where were you guys and your comments that day. i love the fact that you have him written off at 24. All i can say is again thank god no one takes you seriously. PS twinsfan46 you are aware that he was only a couple of innings short of being the iInternational league pitcher of the year which I believe is not that easy to do and would be welcomed by nearly 100 other pitchers across baseball. How bad must all these other guys be? (Sic)

ThePuck
03-08-2013, 10:59 AM
Twinsfan46 and 3up3down - thank god no one takes you seriously. You look at a young kid and you ignore the indicators in his development such as improved performances late last year. Statistically he was the best starter in the twins line up in the last month of last season that's not to say that he was brilliant but he had some good outings against some good opposition. Go back and do a pitch by pitch analysis of the yankees game and you will find that he pitched very well except that every mistake cost him dearly. He got away with nothing that day. His last game against the tigers was nothing short of very good against a quality opposition, where were you guys and your comments that day. i love the fact that you have him written off at 24. All i can say is again thank god no one takes you seriously. PS twinsfan46 you are aware that he was only a couple of innings short of being the iInternational league pitcher of the year which I believe is not that easy to do and would be welcomed by nearly 100 other pitchers across baseball. How bad must all these other guys be? (Sic)

So, practically every post you've written is about an Australian player...and you've slammed people who aren't seeing your point of view on him, including the one quoted here.

Three questions::

1. Are you Australian?

if not

2. Are you related to Hendricks?

3. Do you think people may not take YOU seriously when all you do is comment just on Australian players (minus the one about Cole De Vries...after you brought up Hendricks on the same thread). Think maybe they see some bias there because of it?

For the record, I haven't given up on Liam, but people have a right to wonder about him since he hasn't shown much yet in the majors. Of course he's young, and that's fine...but people have their right to question his ability.

Kwak
03-08-2013, 11:39 AM
ML pitchers require one "dominant" pitch for long-term success. Most pitchers use a fastball of one sort or another. Then there are the breaking-ballers, the change-up guys, and finally the "trick" pitches (forkball, split-finger, etc.). Does Hendricks have a "dominant" pitch?
The poster Falcon25 cited "...mistakes cost him dearly...". ML hitters do just that. I imagine Hendricks was developed to "pitch The Twins Way--attacking the strikezone mercilessly" to obtain low pitch counts via short plate appearances. This can work really well against lesser opposition--but breaks-down against the heavy-hitters of the major leagues because they thrive on "mistakes" and hit them very hard. I think that that is Hendricks "problem". Hendricks could plow-through minor-league hitters without developing/using a "dominant" (out) pitch, but lacking that arrow in his quiver, he struggles mightily at the major league level.

mike wants wins
03-08-2013, 12:04 PM
He is a great example of "his stats are good, but maybe he's topped out. If so, we should trade him before everyone else finds out.....", I think. I hope I'm wrong, but he looks like a guy that is just good enough to be not quite good enough to start in the majors. Like I said, i hope I'm wrong.

3up3down
03-08-2013, 01:21 PM
Mr. Falcon25, people do take me very seroiusly, I am not down on hendricks , I , along with some others believe the twins other options are better.. yes he has pitched some good games , so have the others, they all have spots in the game where 3 or 4 pitches decides if you have a good or bad night...as far as being the best starter at the end of the season, ask any baseball guy & they will tell you dont put to much stock into spring training or sept stats...I have been a supporter for walters , i just think his pitches are better & he was the best the twins had for 4 games in may - june, but how much does that matter...of the 3 devries had the best year & should be ahead of hendricks. hendricks earned a shot from his AAA numbers , but he hasnt earned it in the bigs..devries & walters did..and i know walters numbers were not great , but they were pretty good until he got hurt & i dont believe he was right at the end of the season..he has looked good in spring & his pitches are moving & sinking & the groundballs are back..this is just my opinion but it is taken seroiusly be some...

Top Gun
03-08-2013, 01:39 PM
All he needs to do is win a few games.

ThePuck
03-08-2013, 01:40 PM
All he needs to do is win a few games.

I was gonna say all he needs to do is pitch better :-)

mike wants wins
03-08-2013, 01:56 PM
I was gonna say all he needs to do is pitch better :-)

That was my original idea.....

greengoblinrulz
03-08-2013, 02:00 PM
Tom Kelly recently gave an interview & said he was one of the few in the organization who was still high on Hendriks. That statement doesnt bode well.
My prediction (if Diamond is ready for opening day) is they will send Hendriks to BOS for the rights to Ryan Pressley, so the Rule V pitcher isnt lost back to Sox.
Team just doesnt value Liam & he will succeed somewhere.

SweetOne69
03-08-2013, 02:08 PM
Tom Kelly recently gave an interview & said he was one of the few in the organization who was still high on Hendriks. That statement doesnt bode well.
My prediction (if Diamond is ready for opening day) is they will send Hendriks to BOS for the rights to Ryan Pressley, so the Rule V pitcher isnt lost back to Sox.
Team just doesnt value Liam & he will succeed somewhere.

First, that is way too much to give for Pressly. 2nd he would have to clear waivers before being a trade could be made and with how he has performed it is doubtful that would happen.

3up3down
03-08-2013, 02:14 PM
hendricks would not have to clear waivers , he has a option left, and even if he didnt i dont think he would get claimed.

diehardtwinsfan
03-08-2013, 08:01 PM
I have a tough time believing that a guy can make it all the way to AAA without an out pitch. He may not have an outpitch that is as effective as he'd like, but he had to have something to make it that far. He has a k/9 rate of nearly 8 in his minor league career with nearly 6.94 last season as a 23 year old in Rochester. That reason alone, whether or not anyone here "sees it", is reason not to give up on the kid. Kevin Correia won't likely hit 5k/9. He may not turn into an ace pitcher, but he could be a very servicable number 3/4 type guy for some time. That has value.

Falcon25
03-08-2013, 08:24 PM
So, practically every post you've written is about an Australian player...and you've slammed people who aren't seeing your point of view on him, including the one quoted here.

Three questions::

1. Are you Australian?

if not

2. Are you related to Hendricks?

3. Do you think people may not take YOU seriously when all you do is comment just on Australian players (minus the one about Cole De Vries...after you brought up Hendricks on the same thread). Think maybe they see some bias there because of it?

For the record, I haven't given up on Liam, but people have a right to wonder about him since he hasn't shown much yet in the majors. Of course he's young, and that's fine...but people have their right to question his ability.
I am Australian and I follow the twins because of Hendriks so to say I am biased is probably a vert true statement. I don't comment on other players because I don't follow them closely enough to be able to provide an objective comment. I don't question a players ability because they have done what thousands and thousands of others haven't......played Major League Baseball. They must have something besides opportunity. I also don't slam people who don't like Hendriks but who provide an objective view. For example, I don't believe I have ever criticised your opinion except for the fact that you can't spell his name. That's ok they don't get it right in Australia either. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Those opinions I suggest are more highly regarded when their is an expression of objectivity and even better when backed up by fact. I felt that the two comments I responded to were neither, in my opinion.

Ontwin
03-09-2013, 10:41 AM
Has anyone considered that perhaps Hendriks pitches well in AAA because of the pitching coach? Maybe he get's asked to move away from what comes naturally in Minnesota. Just a thought.