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View Full Version : MLB.com: Cole De Vries Thinks He Can Make This Rotation...



John Bonnes
03-04-2013, 10:30 PM
...and I'm not sure he's wrong.

Christina De Nicola (who I'm assuming is the backup Twins beat reporter for MLB.com) covered today's game and got some quotes from Cole De Vries about his two perfect inning, two strikeout, no walk, outing today:


"It's an open position and I'm looking at it as mine to lose," said De Vries, who has allowed just one baserunner in three Grapefruit League starts. "I'm going out there and trying to prove every day that I want it, and I'm the guy to take that last spot. That's how I'm approaching it."

De Vries didn't get the hype Deduno did last year, but his overall numbers might surprise you: 87.2 innings, 6 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, 4.11 ERA. What hurt him most were home runs (1.6/9). That seems fixable. He doesn't have the most upside, but I'll take a steady back of the rotation starter at this point. For instance, Hendrick numbers in the majors: 108.2 IP, 5.5 K/9, 2.7 BB/9. 5.71 ERA.

De Vries vies for spot in rotation | twinsbaseball.com: News (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130304&content_id=42251170&notebook_id=42258662&vkey=notebook_min&c_id=min)

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-04-2013, 10:43 PM
DeVries may not crack it out of spring training, but I would be shocked if he doesn't get at least 12+ starts for the Twins this year.

jokin
03-04-2013, 10:43 PM
As I was saying in December, why pay for a slew of projected #4-#5 FA starters when they already had a cheap #5 under their control who looked acceptable for the spot in 2013. Could have put that #6 Pit-starter Correia money to better use on a pitcher who actually projected higher.

shs_59
03-05-2013, 12:25 AM
Diamond and Harden not getting a spot is only way Cole gets one.

beckmt
03-05-2013, 12:44 AM
Harden will not be ready until May/June at the earliest. Rest is open, Worley may have to find a third pitcher(hope he takes lessons from Bobby Cuellar), Diamond will probably not be ready for a week or two of the regular season, DeVires if he continues to pitch well, may get a shot(more of the Gardy/Anderson type than Deduno(who also is gone for two weeks)). Some will depend on if the Twins bring Gibson north.

jokin
03-05-2013, 12:51 AM
Diamond and Harden not getting a spot is only way Cole gets one.

It's been made pretty clear in the last week that Harden has been pushed out, possibly to May at the earliest, and maybe later. Given the precautions being taken with Harden, he may never be more than relief help, but even if he does get some starts, that still leaves at least the first 2 months of the season with other medical question marks (Diamond, Pelfrey, Gibson) that gives DeVries a small window of chance for jumping in for at least some interim starts, or, if Hendriks staggers out of the gate (and I'm counting on Hendriks to make this a moot point and firmly grab the #5 spot).

Kwak
03-05-2013, 06:37 AM
Gardenhire never really liked De Vries--he nibbles at the strike zone, and the press jumped on his MN connections. I think that's why we are hearing about "stretching-out" Duensing. I believe Gardenhire vastly prefers Duensing to start as opposed to De Vries starting.

minn55441
03-05-2013, 08:06 AM
I have a feeling that everyone is going to get there chance for a start or two in April and May. Hopefully we will be in a position to reward future starts for only those that earn them.

For his first taste at the major league level, De Vries really didn't pitch that bad. He kept us in most of the games. The key will be does he make improvements in his second go round.

jun
03-05-2013, 08:34 AM
Harden is not going to get a rotation spot right after spring training. Pelfrey might not be ready. Cole DeVries has a chance to make the rotation. Gibson and Hendriks should make the rotation.

Brandon
03-05-2013, 08:35 AM
So the rotation is shaping up to be...
Worley
Diamond
Gibson
with Corriea, DeVries, and Hendriks fighting for the last 2 spots and Dedunno available in case.

I thought DeVries put up Tewksbury like numbers last year and has the same velocity as Marcum and Tewksbury. The other knock on DeVries other than the homeruns is that he didn't pitch deep into games. He was a 5-6 inning pitcher. But I think he could be a servicable #5 starter.

jun
03-05-2013, 08:38 AM
Duensing should be used situationally as a lefty specialist, he is a good reliever a BAD starter. I guess Gardenhire never learns. That's just one of the many reasons why Gardenhire should be let go.

jun
03-05-2013, 08:49 AM
Both Hendriks and DeVries look good this spring. I believe at least one of them could make the rotation.

fairweather
03-05-2013, 09:17 AM
I like DeVries better than all the guys vying for a rotation spot not named Worley, Diamond, or Gibson! Add to that the fact that is would be silly for the Twins to start Gibson in the rotation out of ST and DeVries would be my 3rd starter. This is what is so distressing to me about the additions of Correia and Pelfrey. Just because those guys have proven themselves at the major league level doesn't mean that they are necessarily better right now than DeVries or Deduno. I haven't liked what I've seen from Hendriks thus far in his major league career because he seems too in love with the sinker low and away. If Hendriks can do a better job of changing speeds I think he could be good but until he does I expect him to look consistently over matched.

Halsey Hall
03-05-2013, 10:18 AM
Last year was the perfect storm, with the entire rotation going down. Could it be this year is the opposite? If so, we probably had in house options better than the off season signings. But to much pitching is never a bad thing. TR had to get some arms in camp. So far, so good, with about 3 weeks left, as far as injuries go. We could possibly make it to the season with no injuries. And that will make it real interesting for Gardy.

Diamond will be in the rotation but we won't need him for a couple of weeks the way the schedule is set up. I'd start the season with Gibson in the rotation, granted his innings will be limited, but why not start the season with him with a 0-0 record, than bring him up later when we trail in the standings. Worley, Corriea and Pelfrey should round it out. That leaves no room for Hendriks, DeVries or Duduno. If any of those 3 have a very solid spring, TR has to make the call. I like DeVries attitude, why not view it as his job to lose. Hendriks probably feels the same way. And in the long run I think Dedunno will have a better career than either of those two. Hopefully the decisions aren't make any easier with injuries. AAA should have a very nice rotation this year.

SweetOne69
03-05-2013, 10:27 AM
Right Now the only locks for the rotation are Worley and Correia. Pelfrey has looked good and if he doesn't have any setbacks he should make it. Diamond hasn't thrown a pitch yet and he may end up starting the season on the DL/EST for rehab assignment for the first 2 weeks of the season.

I almost guarantee that Gibson will start in Rochester unless he has to fill in for Pelfrey. That leaves De Vries and Hendricks as the last 2 starters coming out of ST.

nicksaviking
03-05-2013, 10:28 AM
He doesn't have the most upside, but I'll take a steady back of the rotation starter at this point.


If no one else shows they are worthy of the spot, DeVries can have it if earned, but considering the situation the team is in, at this point I 100% take upside over another back of the rotation starter.

Halsey Hall
03-05-2013, 10:55 AM
Right Now the only locks for the rotation are Worley and Correia. Pelfrey has looked good and if he doesn't have any setbacks he should make it. Diamond hasn't thrown a pitch yet and he may end up starting the season on the DL/EST for rehab assignment for the first 2 weeks of the season.

I almost guarantee that Gibson will start in Rochester unless he has to fill in for Pelfrey. That leaves De Vries and Hendricks as the last 2 starters coming out of ST.

Why do you guarantee Gibson starting at Rochester? And if he has to fill in for Pelfrey, why not fill in for DeVries or Hendriks also?

Shane Wahl
03-05-2013, 11:07 AM
Diamond
Worley
Correia
Hendriks
DeVries/Pelfrey

would work for me out of the gate.

SweetOne69
03-05-2013, 11:11 AM
Why do you guarantee Gibson starting at Rochester? And if he has to fill in for Pelfrey, why not fill in for DeVries or Hendriks also?

I guarantee he starts in Rochester because it is easier to have him start while limiting his innings in Rochester than in Minnesota. In MN if they take him out after 4-5 innings it taxes and puts a burden on the BP.

I have him only starting in MN as a replacement for Pelfrey as that would be a temporary appointment. He would get sent down once Pelfrey or Diamond is ready to go. And De Vries would probably get sent down once the other is ready.

Neither Hendricks nor De Vries has anything to prove in AAA. Hendricks needs the chance to show that he can be a MLB pitcher and De Vries needs the chance to show that 2012 wasn't a fluke.

I believe that right now that De Vries is the 6th man in the rotation. He is going to be the 1st man called up to fill in due to injury or ineptness.

cmathewson
03-05-2013, 11:25 AM
I'm not a fan of posting bald numbers without looking at trends. DeVries fooled some hitters early, but as AL hitters learned his ways, he started getting hit pretty hard. On the other hand, Hendriks was starstruck early and only really pitched well in the last of three stints in the majors last year. When he did, he was clearly better than DeVries. The trends indicate that Hendriks is on his way up and DeVries is on his way down. I wouldn't pay too close of attention to the small samples we have of their major league careers.

Shane Wahl
03-05-2013, 12:08 PM
I guarantee he starts in Rochester because it is easier to have him start while limiting his innings in Rochester than in Minnesota. In MN if they take him out after 4-5 innings it taxes and puts a burden on the BP.

I have him only starting in MN as a replacement for Pelfrey as that would be a temporary appointment. He would get sent down once Pelfrey or Diamond is ready to go. And De Vries would probably get sent down once the other is ready.

Neither Hendricks nor De Vries has anything to prove in AAA. Hendricks needs the chance to show that he can be a MLB pitcher and De Vries needs the chance to show that 2012 wasn't a fluke.

I believe that right now that De Vries is the 6th man in the rotation. He is going to be the 1st man called up to fill in due to injury or ineptness.

Yeah, I agree with you that this is what likely should take place. Will it take place is another story.

There really isn't a lack of 5th starters up in here. Last time I will ever say it: but that fact of 5th starter depth (with Hendriks hopefully creeping up to 4th) makes the Correia signing over-the-top terrible.

Shane Wahl
03-05-2013, 12:11 PM
I do think it is time for Hendriks to just be turned free in MLB and no more of this AAA stuff. He already demonstrated improvement near the end of the season last year and is going to be building off of that this year. He is worth more going forward for the Twins than Pelfrey, Deduno, and DeVries (and Correia . . . and Blackburn).

Willihammer
03-05-2013, 12:37 PM
DeVries had an interesting year. He was a pretty extreme fly ball guy. Even with an average HR/FB rate he gave up a ton of HRs, but he was so stingy with walks that the damage wasn't too bad. He fared quite a bit better away from Target Field for some reason. Might be another guy who would benefit from a better 3rd pitch but at this point, I think I would make him my 2nd starter after only Diamond.

Halsey Hall
03-05-2013, 12:42 PM
Ok, I can understand that route.

I'd just like us to start with the rotation that gives us the best chance to win games now. Like I said, if there are no injuries, AAA will have a real solid rotation. I just don't want to be giving games away early to fall back and have an excuse for trading off Morneau and Willingham mid season.

PseudoSABR
03-05-2013, 12:54 PM
Worley
Corriea
Pelfry
Hendricks
DeVries

glunn
03-05-2013, 02:19 PM
Worley
Corriea
Pelfry
Hendricks
DeVries

And add Diamond when he is ready?

TheLeviathan
03-05-2013, 02:36 PM
Worley
Corriea
Pelfry
Hendricks
DeVries

I feel tingly with excitement.

birdwatcher
03-05-2013, 02:41 PM
I feel tingly with excitement.

Now THAT is funny.

snepp
03-05-2013, 02:54 PM
I feel tingly with excitement.

That's nausea, not excitement.

TheLeviathan
03-05-2013, 02:57 PM
That's nausea, not excitement.

Ah....and here I thought it was a stroke from my brain intentionally cutting off its own blood supply to try and mercifully end my pain before enduring that group for the next 6 months.

glunn
03-05-2013, 03:18 PM
Ah....and here I thought it was a stroke from my brain intentionally cutting off its own blood supply to try and mercifully end my pain before enduring that group for the next 6 months.

If two or three of them can perform at a league average level and Diamond can come back and be at least 90% as good as last year, then I am hopeful that the Twins can win 70+ games this year.

snepp
03-05-2013, 04:31 PM
If two or three of them can perform at a league average level and Diamond can come back and be at least 90% as good as last year, then I am hopeful that the Twins can win 70+ games this year.

Still nauseous. :p

luke829
03-05-2013, 04:52 PM
I feel tingly with excitement.

Have faith my friend, if the Bad News Bears can find a way to win, surely the Twins can as well

PseudoSABR
03-05-2013, 05:08 PM
And add Diamond when he is ready?Yup. That seems to be how things are breaking down.

Thrylos
03-05-2013, 05:22 PM
Diamond
Worley
Correia
Hendriks
DeVries/Pelfrey


would work for me out of the gate.

This assumes that Diamond will be ready in 3 weeks and a bit without throwing a single pitch in a game so far and having only 2 bullpens this Spring.

I doubt it. Pelfrey is a question mark also, since if he makes it, he will have one of the shortest TJ recovery times in history.

So I think that only 2 SPs are 100% sure (barring injuries) : Correia (your opening day starter) and Worley. The others are up in the air and DeVries has as a good chance as anyone else to grab a spot.

Add the facts that a. there is no way that Swarzak starts the season in the Twin Cities and b. DeVries was a lights out closer in New Britain (after Slama was promoted) before he returned to a starter the season after and c. he is on the 40-man roster, I think that DeVries has the upper hand in getting a job in the 25-man either as a starter or as a reliever to start the season. He just has to earn it and if he keeps pitching the way he has been, I don't see it otherwise...

TheLeviathan
03-05-2013, 05:30 PM
If two or three of them can perform at a league average level and Diamond can come back and be at least 90% as good as last year, then I am hopeful that the Twins can win 70+ games this year.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts......

When that's your A group (minus Diamond, but even he is a wildcard to a degree) it is really discouraging.

Shane Wahl
03-05-2013, 05:53 PM
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts......

When that's your A group (minus Diamond, but even he is a wildcard to a degree) it is really discouraging.

Have you forgotten how god-awful the starting 5 was last year for the first 6 weeks? This is a significant improvement already.

And (to all): fair enough about Diamond. Then it seems pretty clear that Worley-Correia-Hendriks-Pelfrey-DeVries (with Deduno as the 6th) should be the way to go. Hopefully Correia is the 5th best out of that group.

TheLeviathan
03-05-2013, 06:05 PM
Have you forgotten how god-awful the starting 5 was last year for the first 6 weeks? This is a significant improvement already.

And (to all): fair enough about Diamond. Then it seems pretty clear that Worley-Correia-Hendriks-Pelfrey-DeVries (with Deduno as the 6th) should be the way to go. Hopefully Correia is the 5th best out of that group.

Considering Pelfrey's healthy is a major question mark too, I'm not so sure our pitching staff really looks that different. Worley is encouraging and I have a lot of confidence in Hendricks (more than some) but this is not a group to be excited about. If it's an improvement, it's probably a marginal one.

Also, from what I can see, the pitching was awful start to finish. All we did was rotate the characters.

Top Gun
03-05-2013, 06:23 PM
Cole has been our best pitcher this spring, that's something you will have to look at.

PseudoSABR
03-05-2013, 07:00 PM
Cole has been our best pitcher this spring, that's something you will have to look at.Not really. Maybe in comparison to someone like Deduno, but the Twins probably aren't going to pick their rotation based on the statistical output of spring training games; especially at this point.

twinsnorth49
03-05-2013, 07:00 PM
Cole has been our best pitcher this spring, that's something you will have to look at.

Blackburn was our best pitcher last ST, try looking at that.

snepp
03-05-2013, 07:04 PM
Blackburn was our best pitcher last ST, try looking at that.

And the Royals are routinely one of the spring training "winners."

Thrylos
03-05-2013, 07:09 PM
Blackburn was our best pitcher last ST, try looking at that.

Nope ;) IIRC Blackburn pitched only 2-3 games last ST because he was bothered with stuff. The best (starting) pitcher last ST was FranKKKKKKKKKKKKKKie. The best relief pitcher last ST was Casey Fien, but he did not make the cut ;)

twinzgrl
03-05-2013, 07:33 PM
NONE of the Twins pitchers pitched deep into games....some didn't make it past inning 3....I looked for stats to back this up, but couldn't., only found that the average start in MLB was 5.98 innings per start...someone more tech savvy than myself probably can find the Twins pitchers stats on this...I just know that I was extremely frustrated last year with the # of innings that our bullpen had to pitch because the starters couldn't hang in there. I also remember what the projected staff was SUPPOSED to be last year at this time, and what it ended up to be, were TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. It's early, lots of stuff can and will happen, but I like Cole's attitude and I wish him the BEST!! Good luck!

jokin
03-05-2013, 08:13 PM
Considering Pelfrey's healthy is a major question mark too, I'm not so sure our pitching staff really looks that different. Worley is encouraging and I have a lot of confidence in Hendricks (more than some) but this is not a group to be excited about. If it's an improvement, it's probably a marginal one. Also, from what I can see, the pitching was awful start to finish. All we did was rotate the characters.With a positive nod to the long-term, I strongly concur on Worley and Hendricks, especially because they still have great potential to be long-term solutions- while ably serving as short-to- medium-term bridges to 2015. And there's some reasonable hope that Diamond can evolve into a later-blooming, left-handed version of Brad Radke. But realistically, as far as 2013 goes, they all come with their own set of nagging question marks amidst the collective SP staff, seemingly assembled with duct tape, baling wire, spit and chewing gum and 6th SP-level reclamation projects.


I was struck with a sense of dread by your metaphor, "Rotate the characters?" For 2013 it sounds like the Twins re-arranged the deck chairs on the General Belgrano.**


**Some assembly required.3409

twinsnorth49
03-05-2013, 08:48 PM
Nope ;) IIRC Blackburn pitched only 2-3 games last ST because he was bothered with stuff. The best (starting) pitcher last ST was FranKKKKKKKKKKKKKKie. The best relief pitcher last ST was Casey Fien, but he did not make the cut ;)

You're right about Frankie, forgot about him (not that it makes the Devries arguement any different). Blackburn did appear in 4 games and pitch 17 innings though, almost as much as Frankie and posted a 2.12 ERA, so just as irrelevant.

johnnydakota
03-05-2013, 10:12 PM
DeVries may not crack it out of spring training, but I would be shocked if he doesn't get at least 12+ starts for the Twins this year.

Lets take a closer look at your 12 start prediction, 2 tommy johns 3 chip removal and 1 shoulder injury, Im guessing you could pencil in 12 starts for about 9 pitchers this year ....

johnnydakota
03-05-2013, 10:17 PM
Harden is not going to get a rotation spot right after spring training. Pelfrey might not be ready. Cole DeVries has a chance to make the rotation. Gibson and Hendriks should make the rotation.

2 out of 3 aint bad....if history has taught us anything it is that.... David Evil (st) Pete will pinch a dime till 3 nickles fall out....
so im guessing niether Hicks or gibson are quiet polished enough till after ther super 2 status has evaporated...

johnnydakota
03-05-2013, 10:20 PM
Ok, I can understand that route.

I'd just like us to start with the rotation that gives us the best chance to win games now. Like I said, if there are no injuries, AAA will have a real solid rotation. I just don't want to be giving games away early to fall back and have an excuse for trading off Morneau and Willingham mid season.
The powers that be have already made up there minds as to who and when players are traded this year and next...Aint no amount of wins going to change that...

darin617
03-05-2013, 10:41 PM
...and I'm not sure he's wrong.

Christina De Nicola (who I'm assuming is the backup Twins beat reporter for MLB.com) covered today's game and got some quotes from Cole De Vries about his two perfect inning, two strikeout, no walk, outing today:



De Vries didn't get the hype Deduno did last year, but his overall numbers might surprise you: 87.2 innings, 6 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, 4.11 ERA. What hurt him most were home runs (1.6/9). That seems fixable. He doesn't have the most upside, but I'll take a steady back of the rotation starter at this point. For instance, Hendrick numbers in the majors: 108.2 IP, 5.5 K/9, 2.7 BB/9. 5.71 ERA.

De Vries vies for spot in rotation | twinsbaseball.com: News (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130304&content_id=42251170&notebook_id=42258662&vkey=notebook_min&c_id=min)

Les Straker could almost make the rotation now.

johnnydakota
03-05-2013, 10:44 PM
Have you forgotten how god-awful the starting 5 was last year for the first 6 weeks? This is a significant improvement already.

And (to all): fair enough about Diamond. Then it seems pretty clear that Worley-Correia-Hendriks-Pelfrey-DeVries (with Deduno as the 6th) should be the way to go. Hopefully Correia is the 5th best out of that group.

Your 100% correct
We went from a giant steaming pile of horse ploop to
A runny pool of dog poo.

That is an improvement

johnnydakota
03-05-2013, 10:47 PM
Not really. Maybe in comparison to someone like Deduno, but the Twins probably aren't going to pick their rotation based on the statistical output of spring training games; especially at this point.

Agreeing, since Ronald has been manager , we have never seen the guy with the best spring win a job ... the decisions were made the previous October in most cases

johnnydakota
03-05-2013, 10:49 PM
And the Royals are routinely one of the spring training "winners."

And so far this spring they are 10-0-1

jokin
03-05-2013, 10:58 PM
Agreeing, since Ronald has been manager , we have never seen the guy with the best spring win a job ... the decisions were made the previous October in most cases

Or in the case of Florimon, the previous August.

old nurse
03-06-2013, 08:16 AM
Agreeing, since Ronald has been manager , we have never seen the guy with the best spring win a job ... the decisions were made the previous October in most cases
Because spring training numbers as a whole are meaningless. A body of work pitching to the second string is meaningless. Too bad more fans do not understand that.

Brandon
03-06-2013, 09:07 AM
The whole rotation is an if then rotaion of scenarios.

If Diamond is healty he will start
If Pelfry is healthy he will start
If Corriea can be effective he will continue to start and will be a default starter to open the season unlessor until he proves otherwise.
If Gibson starts the season at AAA he will eventually make the team this year at some point or he will start the season with the team and be shut down.
If Harden can start he will be up around the all star break and take a spot (Corrieas?)
If Hendricks can hold it together he can start if not he'll be back at AAA a lot faster then last year as we have more options this year.

I could keep going but i will make this prediction that the 6th and 7th starters will make 30 starts this season.

I see DeVries getting 10-20 starts and 20-30 long relief appearances this year.

jokin
03-06-2013, 11:58 PM
The whole rotation is an if then rotaion of scenarios.

If Diamond is healty he will start
If Pelfry is healthy he will start
If Corriea can be effective he will continue to start and will be a default starter to open the season unlessor until he proves otherwise.
If Gibson starts the season at AAA he will eventually make the team this year at some point or he will start the season with the team and be shut down.
If Harden can start he will be up around the all star break and take a spot (Corrieas?)
If Hendricks can hold it together he can start if not he'll be back at AAA a lot faster then last year as we have more options this year.

I could keep going but i will make this prediction that the 6th and 7th starters will make 30 starts this season.

I see DeVries getting 10-20 starts and 20-30 long relief appearances this year.

Ifs and Buts are Candy for Nuts.

Shane Wahl
03-07-2013, 12:40 AM
Look, a better way to approach the whole damn thing is probably in terms of figuring out the division of the 162 starts. This is more important than who, what, where, and why.

So here goes:

Worley 30
Correia 25
Hendriks 25
Diamond 25
Pelfrey 18
Gibson 15
Harden 14
DeVries 5

glunn
03-07-2013, 01:14 AM
The whole rotation is an if then rotaion of scenarios.

If Diamond is healty he will start
If Pelfry is healthy he will start
If Corriea can be effective he will continue to start and will be a default starter to open the season unlessor until he proves otherwise.
If Gibson starts the season at AAA he will eventually make the team this year at some point or he will start the season with the team and be shut down.
If Harden can start he will be up around the all star break and take a spot (Corrieas?)
If Hendricks can hold it together he can start if not he'll be back at AAA a lot faster then last year as we have more options this year.

I could keep going but i will make this prediction that the 6th and 7th starters will make 30 starts this season.

I see DeVries getting 10-20 starts and 20-30 long relief appearances this year.

I like your analysis, and would add that if Deduno could improve his control, he could be effective.

jokin
03-07-2013, 01:27 AM
Look, a better way to approach the whole damn thing is probably in terms of figuring out the division of the 162 starts. This is more important than who, what, where, and why.

So here goes:

Worley 30
Correia 25
Hendriks 25
Diamond 25
Pelfrey 18
Gibson 15
Harden 14
DeVries 5

Bagger has 23 and 25 in his first two years, he gets to 30 this year by default (don't blow out his arm, Gardy!).

On Chick, I hope you're overshooting it a bit, as the Twins ultimately come to realize what Pitt figured out last year.

On Hendriks, you're as optimistic as me (keeping all fingers crossed).

On Harden, you're trying to remain optimistic about that Lotto ticket in your pocket.

On Gibson, you're less optimistic than me, I'm hoping for 18-20.

On Pelfrey, I wish it was 18- at the deadline- and on an unprecedented TJ Miracle Comeback story, making him a valuable asset to acquire a prospect (I used up all my fingers on my Hendriks wish, so not holding my breath on this one).

Speaking of optimism, you forgot about Gardy's boundless optimism for Duensing, who is thus "bound" to get a 10 appearance SP run- to ineptitude- just shortly after showing quite well as the 3rd best BP option.

On DeVries, you could just as well make the category, "DeVries and the Rest" as Blackie ( he is likely due for a Nishi-like farewell tour at some point in '13), Deduno and Walters are bound to give us a trip down the 2012 nostalgia lane at some point in 2013, with Raffie Perez getting a make-up-game DH start, thus fulfilling that pre-season, "stop the presses", Rob Antony oh-so-eager ("he's fully healthy!") optimism.

ThePuck
03-07-2013, 10:58 AM
Because spring training numbers as a whole are meaningless. A body of work pitching to the second string is meaningless. Too bad more fans do not understand that.

I think most fans DO understand that...but the FO and manager keep talking about ST battles...if the decisions are made prior to ST, then there are no ST battles. I'm guessing that was the point.

ashburyjohn
03-07-2013, 11:35 AM
I think most fans DO understand that...but the FO and manager keep talking about ST battles...if the decisions are made prior to ST, then there are no ST battles. I'm guessing that was the point.

You can have a battle without it being against full-strength competition. Coaches and other talent evaluators look for signs of good and repeatable mechanics, they evaluate pitches based on what a better batter might or might not have done against it, they give leeway if a pitch the pitcher is still working on and will be put aside is what got hammered, etc. Add to that the Small Sample Size that the spring always represents, and it's fair to say that the spring battle exists and the results are not pre-ordained yet is decided by professional judgement and not just stats.

ThePuck
03-07-2013, 03:03 PM
You can have a battle without it being against full-strength competition. Coaches and other talent evaluators look for signs of good and repeatable mechanics, they evaluate pitches based on what a better batter might or might not have done against it, they give leeway if a pitch the pitcher is still working on and will be put aside is what got hammered, etc. Add to that the Small Sample Size that the spring always represents, and it's fair to say that the spring battle exists and the results are not pre-ordained yet is decided by professional judgement and not just stats.

I think you are missing the point.

1: The one poster said the decisions were made in October.
2: Old Nurse responded saying: 'Because spring training numbers as a whole are meaningless. A body of work pitching to the second string is meaningless. Too bad more fans do not understand that'
3: I responded saying: 'I think most fans DO understand that...but the FO and manager keep talking about ST battles...if the decisions are made prior to ST, then there are no ST battles. I'm guessing that was the point. '

So this was about roster decisions being made before ST. The original guy saying it was before ST, old nurse not disagreeing and saying ST stats are meaningless and he wishes more people knew that, and me saying I think most do understand that but we keep being told there are ST battles.

Maybe your post should have been written to the poster saying decisions were made much earlier than spring training and that ST didn't affect decisions.

old nurse
03-08-2013, 05:58 AM
I think most fans DO understand that...but the FO and manager keep talking about ST battles...if the decisions are made prior to ST, then there are no ST battles. I'm guessing that was the point.
The battle is performance in the situation. A long time back I said watch when players are being plaid. Hicks has been getting first team reps. If they assess that he can do well they will keep him. The assessment is not the statistic per se but how they feel he is handling the pitching. Topic of the thread, De Vries, if he is starting the games then you have an idea they might want to keep him and get him stretched out. The assessment is not the ERA but rather the mistake pitches he throws. They killed his mistakes last year, when he threw well, there were better results.