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East Coast Twin
03-04-2013, 07:23 PM
Another encouraging report on Brian Dozier's ability to play second base:


"We talked during BP about not going down that base path too much towards first base, and he really kept his feet nice and short around the bag today," Gardenhire said of Dozier. "I think you saw how easy the throws were for him. He just flipped it. Nothing panicky. Made two really nice plays."


"His first step was fantastic. That's what we're looking for. At this point, he looks so much more comfortable over there and looks like he's taking the bull by the horns at second base. He looks like he's really into it."

Minnesota Twins: Brian Dozier looks slick at second base - TwinCities.com (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_22715690/minnesota-twins-brian-dozier-looks-slick-at-second)

jokin
03-04-2013, 07:31 PM
It appears that Tom Powers handed off his 2012 ST notes to Berardino or the Twins FO somehow thinks everything in the past goes down the memory hole:
Tom Powers: Brian Dozier is going to be the next big thing for Twins - TwinCities.com (http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_20108405/tom-powers-brian-dozier-is-going-be-next)

I hope Dozier makes it, as he seems like a guy you want to pull for, but in this case, I'll believe it when I see it.

Nick Nelson
03-04-2013, 07:38 PM
Seems safe to say the Dozier at SS experiment is over. Probably for the best. Really hope he can settle in at second, he's got all the skills necessary to be a serviceable piece there for a while.

TheLeviathan
03-04-2013, 07:50 PM
Glad to hear this part of the equation is in good shape. Hopefully he can bring some offense to the position.

Kwak
03-04-2013, 07:54 PM
Seems safe to say the Dozier at SS experiment is over. Probably for the best. Really hope he can settle in at second, he's got all the skills necessary to be a serviceable piece there for a while.

My take as well, the left-handed kiss-of-death for SS. But it does illustrate Gardenhire has his pets--and apparently Dozier at 2B is one of them. This also serves to squelch talk of anyone else starting at 2B this April.

TheLeviathan
03-04-2013, 08:19 PM
For once I'm in favor of him having this pet. Usually his pets are all but guaranteed failures waiting to happen, this one at least has a chance to be a boon for the team.

whatever54
03-04-2013, 08:27 PM
No one is surprised by Dozier at 2B, that was the plan all along, the good news is it doesn't sound like a disaster. If Dozier is settling in at 2B then that makes sorting out SS just that much easier, you can spend the better part of March auditioning Florimon, Escobar, Carrol and whomever till you find the starting pair you like the most, then hope they don't imploded sometime after April 1st.

cmathewson
03-04-2013, 08:40 PM
It's not a forgone conclusion. Gardy also praised Escobar recently, saying second base is his best position and he would be comfortable with him there everyday. The difference is, Dozier can hit, if he just calms down and lets his natural ability shine through. The Twins want him to be able to handle not only second base but the second spot in the order, so they can have a 3-8 of Mauer, Willignham, Morneau, Doumit, Plouffe and Parmakee. Dozier is the only guy who has a chance at that. If he is anywhere close to Escobar with the glove, he comes north as the second baseman.

jokin
03-04-2013, 08:40 PM
I'd settle for a petit-boon on the part of the Dozier-pet.

FWIW- I know 2B is easier than SS, but in 356 minor league games and 84 major league games (440 game total), Dozier has only played 47 at 2B- that's just North of 10%. He also has demonstrated hitting success only as high as AA, and his ABs at New Britain only totaled 311.

Given the pressure that Gardy's under and the precedence of Dozier cracking under the weight of starting SS last year, isn't some of that likely going to redound accordingly, if/when things go badly at some poin

jokin
03-04-2013, 08:41 PM
It's not a forgone conclusion. Gardy also praised Escobar recently, saying second base is his best position and he would be comfortable with him there everyday. The difference is, Dozier can hit, if he just calms down and lets his natural ability shine through. The Twins want him to be able to handle not only second base but the second spot in the order, so they can have a 3-8 of Mauer, Willignham, Morneau, Doumit, Plouffe and Parmakee. Dozier is the only guy who has a chance at that. If he is anywhere close to Escobar with the glove, he comes north as the second baseman.

Actually, Carroll has a better chance at that.

jokin
03-04-2013, 08:43 PM
No one is surprised by Dozier at 2B, that was the plan all along, the good news is it doesn't sound like a disaster. If Dozier is settling in at 2B then that makes sorting out SS just that much easier, you can spend the better part of March auditioning Florimon, Escobar, Carrol and whomever till you find the starting pair you like the most, then hope they don't imploded sometime after April 1st.

Florimon will be starting at SS. Carroll will be the guy to plug the implosion at 2B or SS (or 3B?).

twinsnorth49
03-04-2013, 09:05 PM
Florimon will be starting at SS. Carroll will be the guy to plug the implosion at 2B or SS (or 3B?).

Carroll is looking like a one man bomb squad.

jokin
03-04-2013, 09:09 PM
Carroll is looking like a one man bomb squad.

Aint that the truth! (2015 can't come soon enough)

Oldgoat_MN
03-04-2013, 09:19 PM
Still don't understand why Florimon is at SS instead of Escobar.

I would gladly read a response from someone who could explain this to me. Thank you

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-04-2013, 09:25 PM
Give me Carroll as the every day SS over Florimon and Escobar.

twinsnorth49
03-04-2013, 09:33 PM
Give me Carroll as the every day SS over Florimon and Escobar.

I agree with that and the very fact there is an odds on chance of that actually happening is a mark against TR this off-season.

FrodaddyG
03-04-2013, 10:17 PM
Glad to hear this part of the equation is in good shape.
That equation, of course, being:

0 * anything = 0

with the "anything" in this case being a given Twins MI's chance of being useful.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-04-2013, 10:28 PM
I agree with that and the very fact there is a odds on chance of that actually happening is a mark against TR this off-season.

He was a 3.2 WAR player last year and gets on base at a very good clip, he's obviously not a long term solution, but he should be the starting SS as long as the Twins are trying to "compete" Florimon and Escobar literally do nothing for me, I can't see either one becoming anything more then a "Meh, we will keep him around until we find something better, UTIL guy"

jokin
03-05-2013, 02:59 AM
That equation, of course, being:

0 * anything = 0

with the "anything" in this case being a given Twins MI's chance of being useful.


Technically, this is not entirely correct, as there is one number where this is not true, and it fits the Twins to the Power of Zero Math perfectly.

Because, 0^0=Undefined.

Zero to the Zero Power -- Math Fun Facts (http://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/10005.3-5.shtml)

beckmt
03-05-2013, 06:49 AM
This is the season for the Twins to figure out what they have. Carroll will fill the hole that fails(hopefully no more than one). Twins are running auditions for next year and 2015. If they happen to be better than expected this year great, but finding what they have is the main mission. Floriman is just getting the first shot at SS, just as Dozier is getting the shot at 2B. Hope they both make it, but do not expect it. Dozier has an extremely short time to prove it as the next wave will be here by 2015.

TheLeviathan
03-05-2013, 07:27 AM
with the "anything" in this case being a given Twins MI's chance of being useful.

*sigh* Thanks for the reality check. It was a nice dream for the few minutes it lasted!

wagwan
03-05-2013, 07:40 AM
0^0 is not the same as 0*0 and for the record, I think MI production will be improved both in the field and at the bat.

rnw24
03-05-2013, 08:53 AM
I agree with that and the very fact there is a odds on chance of that actually happening is a mark against TR this off-season.

carroll needs to have his plate appearances kept under 401. there is no reason to have his $2M option vest for 2014.

snepp
03-05-2013, 09:15 AM
carroll needs to have his plate appearances kept under 401. there is no reason to have his $2M option vest for 2014.

If they aren't going to bother spending that money elsewhere it really doesn't matter.

twinsnorth49
03-05-2013, 09:18 AM
He was a 3.2 WAR player last year and gets on base at a very good clip, he's obviously not a long term solution, but he should be the starting SS as long as the Twins are trying to "compete" Florimon and Escobar literally do nothing for me, I can't see either one becoming anything more then a "Meh, we will keep him around until we find something better, UTIL guy"

Oh I agree, in the present situation, I'm not knocking Carroll but more should have been done to avoid the possibility of a 39 year old having to be an everyday player at SS. Leaving it at Florimon and Escobar is pretty much allowing it to happen.

FrodaddyG
03-05-2013, 01:53 PM
Technically, this is not entirely correct, as there is one number where this is not true, and it fits the Twins to the Power of Zero Math perfectly.

Because, 0^0=Undefined.

Zero to the Zero Power -- Math Fun Facts (http://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/10005.3-5.shtml)
As stated below by someone else, 0^0 =/= 0*0. I impressed my future favorite teacher ever by showing the math behind why 0^0 is undefinable during my 7th grade orientation visit to the high school. Or do you really want to take this into the realm of irrational, non-existent numbers?

Dave T
03-05-2013, 02:38 PM
Carroll has been a very useful player to the Twins. If he continues playing well, I hope his $2m option DOES vest for 2014 -- he earned it.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-05-2013, 09:00 PM
If they aren't going to bother spending that money elsewhere it really doesn't matter.

Yeah, at the very least he provides a "veteran presence" who is at least better then the majority of your in house options.

snepp
03-05-2013, 09:04 PM
Yeah, at the very least he provides a "veteran presence" who is at least better then the majority of your in house options.

Yupper, they're not exactly loaded in the middle infield, and there aren't any immediate reinforcements knocking down the door.

Brock Beauchamp
03-05-2013, 09:09 PM
No matter what happens with Carroll, I'm pretty sure the team has an option for 2014.

So, no, I hope his option doesn't vest. It means the Twins middle infielders failed, Dozier and/or Plouffe in particular.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-05-2013, 10:47 PM
Dozier and/or Plouffe in particular.

What are you talking about? Dozier and Plouffe could become the next Cano and A-Rod (in his prime) and the Twins would still most likely have a huge hole at SS moving forward. Unless you somehow think Florimon or Escobar are a legitimate option moving forward.

SpiritofVodkaDave
03-05-2013, 10:50 PM
Yupper, they're not exactly loaded in the middle infield, and there aren't any immediate reinforcements knocking down the door.

Also the SS free agents next year are well.....wow...just awful.

johnnydakota
03-05-2013, 10:58 PM
This is the season for the Twins to figure out what they have. Carroll will fill the hole that fails(hopefully no more than one). Twins are running auditions for next year and 2015. If they happen to be better than expected this year great, but finding what they have is the main mission. Floriman is just getting the first shot at SS, just as Dozier is getting the shot at 2B. Hope they both make it, but do not expect it. Dozier has an extremely short time to prove it as the next wave will be here by 2015.

Wasnt that what we did in 2012?

jokin
03-05-2013, 11:01 PM
Wasnt that what we did in 2012?

Rinse, lather, repeat....

jokin
03-05-2013, 11:07 PM
Also the SS free agents next year are well.....wow...just awful.

The Twins would never go that FA route for anyone meaningfully impactful, anyway. I would like them to try to repeat their trade with the Brewers in acquiring Hardy-

trade an excess OF for a proven-sure-fielding, albeit with power, yet value-diminished rehabilitating, mid-20s SS- from a team looking to shed a soon-to-be unaffordable asset.

ericchri
03-07-2013, 10:53 AM
I just don't expect much from Florimon, but as a fan I hope he proves me wrong. I think Carroll is our best SS option, but they're running the "kids" out there this year to see if any of them can hack it (pun semi-intended). I'd probably rather see Escobar get the start, with Carroll as the utility to start the season and Florimon in AAA, but all the talk makes that seem unlikely. Rumors of Escobar taking a little practice to be a possible emergency catcher make it seem near-impossible. Pretty sure you don't take a guy you think can start at short and have him work on playing catcher just in case.

The real thing to watch is does Danny Santana start the year at AA, and how does he perform? Not sure he's going to be any more of a hitter than Florimon or Escobar, but for now he seems like our best chance for a young, quality starting SS (i.e. not a utility or AAAA playing due to lack of better options) in the near future.

As for Dozier, I'm pretty hopeful about him at 2B. Good reports just add to it a little.