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View Full Version : Aaaaand ... Parmelee's back at first base....



John Bonnes
03-01-2013, 09:51 PM
But everyone swears it's temporary. They just need someone to fill in there since Morneau, Mauer and Colabello are all in the WBC for the next 10 games. In fact, it's all hands on deck to find warm bodies....


(Tom) Kelly has been training Jeff Clement, Drew Butera and Chris Herrmann, all catchers, plus outfielder Brian Dinkelman in the basics of the position. "I'm sure there are guys who have done it a little bit," Gardenhire said.





FWIW, Parmelee doesn't seem to mind.

Shortage sends Parmelee back to first, for a bit | StarTribune.com (http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/194419791.html)

twinsnorth49
03-01-2013, 09:53 PM
Seems kind of obvious to me.

FrodaddyG
03-01-2013, 09:54 PM
Well, if there's one person whose bat screams "corner infielder", it's Drew Butera.

PseudoSABR
03-02-2013, 01:37 AM
Let's just hope this doesn't cramp his capacity to learn or compete for RF; that's the only issue.

josecordoba
03-02-2013, 06:01 AM
I'm having a hard time seeing Parmalee ever maintaining the Offensive Standard of a league average 1B of 15 percent more offensive production then league average. Is Parmalee a consistent .800 OPS guy? I'm skeptical. If you raise the Offensive Standard to 20 percent above league average(As it is most years) then you're looking at between a .825 and .850 OPS guy. I realize some projection models tend to disagree with me.

diehardtwinsfan
03-02-2013, 07:35 AM
I don't get the skepticism on Parmelee's bat. He OPSd 1.1 at AAA as a 24 year old in follow up to a break out season in AA the year past. He also walked as often as he struck out during that run. I'm not expecting him to put up MVP numbers, but to think that he could be league average or better than that as a first baseman is hardly unreasonable.

TheLeviathan
03-02-2013, 07:55 AM
If, just days ago, you were worried about some of his throwing - why on earth is he back to a position he doesn't have to throw from? This is spring training...you don't NEED to play him at first. Shuffle someone else over there so the kid keeps working on being a better OF in live situations.

jorgenswest
03-02-2013, 07:58 AM
He is going to be the starting RF. He didn't play RF very often in the last few years. Why not give him the best chance to be successful in that role?

It would be reasonable to assess that an OF with Parmelee and Willingham is too damaging to the defense to play together regularly.

josecordoba
03-02-2013, 08:03 AM
Parmalee's Triple A numbers over that stretch weren't really inline with his career numbers previous. He also put up an OPS of .670 in 3/4 as many as bats at the Major League Level. Could Parmalee be a .350/.450 hitter? I suppose- I'm just skeptical that he meets this standard.

Badsmerf
03-02-2013, 10:34 AM
Parmalee's Triple A numbers over that stretch weren't really inline with his career numbers previous. He also put up an OPS of .670 in 3/4 as many as bats at the Major League Level. Could Parmalee be a .350/.450 hitter? I suppose- I'm just skeptical that he meets this standard.
Those numbers are not fair to Parmelee. He saw sporadic playing time and played out of position for the first time in years. It was very much a topic of contention with how Gardy handled him while we was up. Another young player that Gardy mishandled IMO. Obviously he went on to succeed as a whole on the season and hopefully in the scheme of things it wont be a big deal. Just adds to my ire against Gardy.

Seth Stohs
03-02-2013, 10:42 AM
Yeah, this is a non-story. It's completely due to Morneau, Mauer and Colabello being gone. Nothing more. Sure, he'll get some time at 1B just because he's a 1B, but he'll be the RF, and he'll be adequate out here.

jimbo92107
03-02-2013, 10:59 AM
He is going to be the starting RF. He didn't play RF very often in the last few years. Why not give him the best chance to be successful in that role?

It would be reasonable to assess that an OF with Parmelee and Willingham is too damaging to the defense to play together regularly.

Parmelee may also be the starting 1B at some point this year, if Morneau either gets injured or traded. That would leave room in the outfield for one of the fast guys, whichever one is still in AAA.

Mastrioanni, Hicks and Benson. Three Speedos!

GCTF
03-02-2013, 11:00 AM
Well, if there's one person whose bat screams "corner infielder", it's Drew Butera.

How long till Gardy "likes the way he led the infield warmup"?

FrodaddyG
03-02-2013, 11:01 AM
How long till Gardy "likes the way he led the infield warmup"?
He'll have some real snap on those return throws after pickoff attempts.

Halsey Hall
03-02-2013, 12:00 PM
Yeah, this is a non-story. It's completely due to Morneau, Mauer and Colabello being gone. Nothing more. Sure, he'll get some time at 1B just because he's a 1B, but he'll be the RF, and he'll be adequate out here.

That's right. He'll play right also while those guys are gone. I can see Dinkleman getting alot of time at first during that stretch. Also, they've worked Dinkleman at all the infield positions this spring. That's a plus in his favor, which he admits.

Thrylos
03-02-2013, 12:06 PM
He is going to be the starting RF. .

If Benson, Boggs, Hicks, Mastroianni and Ramirez (alphabetically) continue to perform they way they have been this Spring Training and Parmelee continues to perform the way he has been, he will probably be the starting RF in Rochester...

ashburyjohn
03-02-2013, 12:23 PM
Mastrioanni, Hicks and Benson. Three Speedos!

Thanks for the mental image I did not need.

diehardtwinsfan
03-02-2013, 12:33 PM
Parmalee's Triple A numbers over that stretch weren't really inline with his career numbers previous. He also put up an OPS of .670 in 3/4 as many as bats at the Major League Level. Could Parmalee be a .350/.450 hitter? I suppose- I'm just skeptical that he meets this standard.

You are correct that they were not inline. He was also 24, and it is not unusual for kids to improve their game. Those AAA numbers followed up his breakout season in AA as well. You also have to consider that the Twins spent plenty of time tweaking his swing and approach, which sapped his power early on the minors as well. Those things don't show up in stat lines, but are well documented and need to be taken into consideration.

I should add that no one is saying he will be a .350/.450 hitter. I could see him having a few .300 seasons as he peaks, but for him to be a .280/.360/.470 hitter (or something close) is not an unreasonable expectation. That would be about league average for a 1B and not a bad rookie campaign.

TheLeviathan
03-02-2013, 12:40 PM
Yeah, this is a non-story. It's completely due to Morneau, Mauer and Colabello being gone. Nothing more. Sure, he'll get some time at 1B just because he's a 1B, but he'll be the RF, and he'll be adequate out here.

Right, no one is suggesting the problem here is because the Twins are forcing him there. The problem is that he didn't get playing time there last year in the minors and now, in a 4-5 week spring training, another half of that is gone. And we've already had suggestions from the coaching staff that he needs work.

I'd rather have a bunch of mis-cast 1B out there for a few meaningless games than Parmalee not ready when the games count.

Physics Guy
03-03-2013, 12:10 PM
You are correct that they were not inline. He was also 24, and it is not unusual for kids to improve their game. Those AAA numbers followed up his breakout season in AA as well. You also have to consider that the Twins spent plenty of time tweaking his swing and approach, which sapped his power early on the minors as well. Those things don't show up in stat lines, but are well documented and need to be taken into consideration.

I should add that no one is saying he will be a .350/.450 hitter. I could see him having a few .300 seasons as he peaks, but for him to be a .280/.360/.470 hitter (or something close) is not an unreasonable expectation. That would be about league average for a 1B and not a bad rookie campaign.

I think josecordoba was referring to OBP/SLG when saying .350/.450 which would put him at .800 OPS. His argument was that he was skeptical of him being an annual .800 OPS guy. I think you misinterpreted what he meant for .350/.450.

I on the other hand believe he will sit around .780 this year and be a .825 - .850 guy in the future. Not quite what Morneau is capable of (.900+) but certainly acceptable at 1B for a team that has other issues to address.

Seth Stohs
03-03-2013, 01:08 PM
Right, no one is suggesting the problem here is because the Twins are forcing him there. The problem is that he didn't get playing time there last year in the minors and now, in a 4-5 week spring training, another half of that is gone. And we've already had suggestions from the coaching staff that he needs work.

I'd rather have a bunch of mis-cast 1B out there for a few meaningless games than Parmalee not ready when the games count.

He is what he is as a RF, and he will play there the majority of the time he's in the spring lineups. Doesn't hurt to have him play 1B once a week or something.

TheLeviathan
03-03-2013, 01:17 PM
He is what he is as a RF, and he will play there the majority of the time he's in the spring lineups. Doesn't hurt to have him play 1B once a week or something.

You realize his minor league playing time the last two years right? 180 starts at 1B vs. 40 in RF. The last time he played mostly OF was 2007 (Which accounts for almost half of all OF starts in his minor league career) Call me crazy, but I'd sort of like the guy to start getting comfortable at the position he'll largely be playing when the games count. Here is someone more close to the situation:


"If you put him out there and let him play every day, he's going to get better and better," Gardenhire said. "Some of our Minor League managers have said he's a very good right field manager when he's out there a lot."

Gardy is exactly right. Not playing him there isn't helping him, especially days removed from throwing concerns.

jorgenswest
03-03-2013, 04:05 PM
If Benson, Boggs, Hicks, Mastroianni and Ramirez (alphabetically) continue to perform they way they have been this Spring Training and Parmelee continues to perform the way he has been, he will probably be the starting RF in Rochester...

Is that your recommendation? Are you advocating for the Twins from office to send Parmelee to AAA and start someone from among the alphabet above based on spring training numbers (assuming they stay on the same neighborhood)?

I will state that Parmelee needs to be in the major leagues this year. He may struggle, but he will not make any progress in AAA. He has a chance to be a contributing major league regular until the Twins no longer have him under control. The Twins need to invest in that chance.

Thrylos
03-03-2013, 04:36 PM
Is that your recommendation? Are you advocating for the Twins from office to send Parmelee to AAA and start someone from among the alphabet above based on spring training numbers (assuming they stay on the same neighborhood)?

I will state that Parmelee needs to be in the major leagues this year. He may struggle, but he will not make any progress in AAA. He has a chance to be a contributing major league regular until the Twins no longer have him under control. The Twins need to invest in that chance.

I think that if Benson, Hicks and Mastroianni are all better that him in ST, he needs to be in AAA. They are all better OFs than Parmelee and Mastroianni and Benson have as many options as Parmelee left. So the argument for Parmelee and control becomes the same as Benson and Mastroianni and control. I would have no problem to have Parmelee warming the 1B spot if they trade Morneau for someone like Vargas/Sano/Harrison but his offense has not been there in the majors last season (other than isoP, he was Buterrible last season.) So I see nothing about handing him a job and not one of Benson, Hicks and Mastroianni if they outperform him. And if he is going to be sitting on the bench, like he did last season, I'd rather see Ramirez or Boggs do that... The other thing is that this team is too LH as is, so I'd rather have Benson (who has the same options and is the same age and bats RH and a much better fielder than Parmelee...)

If he doesn't have it, sent him to AAA to get it.

Seth Stohs
03-03-2013, 05:22 PM
You realize his minor league playing time the last two years right? 180 starts at 1B vs. 40 in RF. The last time he played mostly OF was 2007 (Which accounts for almost half of all OF starts in his minor league career) Call me crazy, but I'd sort of like the guy to start getting comfortable at the position he'll largely be playing when the games count. Here is someone more close to the situation:

Gardy is exactly right. Not playing him there isn't helping him, especially days removed from throwing concerns.

Like I said, he's going to be playing RF most of spring. Clement played at 1B today, and DAn Rohlfing played the late innings. Clement will play a lot. They'll get some other guys there. Yup, the last time that Parmelee played a lot of RF was 2007, but he also played there for 6-7 years before that.

I think we all know that 1B is not completely out of the realm of possibility of him playing again later in the 2013 season, so it certainly doesn't hurt anything at all to have him play there from time to time. Oh, and he also practices every day in RF as well.

josecordoba
03-03-2013, 05:34 PM
I think that if Benson, Hicks and Mastroianni are all better that him in ST, he needs to be in AAA. They are all better OFs than Parmelee and Mastroianni and Benson have as many options as Parmelee left. So the argument for Parmelee and control becomes the same as Benson and Mastroianni and control. I would have no problem to have Parmelee warming the 1B spot if they trade Morneau for someone like Vargas/Sano/Harrison but his offense has not been there in the majors last season (other than isoP, he was Buterrible last season.) So I see nothing about handing him a job and not one of Benson, Hicks and Mastroianni if they outperform him. And if he is going to be sitting on the bench, like he did last season, I'd rather see Ramirez or Boggs do that... The other thing is that this team is too LH as is, so I'd rather have Benson (who has the same options and is the same age and bats RH and a much better fielder than Parmelee...)

If he doesn't have it, sent him to AAA to get it.

I kind of look at Parmalee like I do Hendricks/Dozier/Florimon at this point. They've done what they're going to do at Triple A. Ride them half a season and see what happens. I'm not going to be that upset if Hicks starts the Season at Triple A with either Benson or Mastroianni in Center.
The Twins can't ulitmately be that concerned whether they end up with 68 Wins or 64. It really makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things.

TheLeviathan
03-03-2013, 05:36 PM
Oh, and he also practices every day in RF as well.

I get it, I just don't see any good coming from this. I'd rather he be in RF and cobble together 1B. Priorities seem to be awry.

jorgenswest
03-03-2013, 05:59 PM
I think that if Benson, Hicks and Mastroianni are all better that him in ST, he needs to be in AAA. They are all better OFs than Parmelee and Mastroianni and Benson have as many options as Parmelee left. So the argument for Parmelee and control becomes the same as Benson and Mastroianni and control. I would have no problem to have Parmelee warming the 1B spot if they trade Morneau for someone like Vargas/Sano/Harrison but his offense has not been there in the majors last season (other than isoP, he was Buterrible last season.) So I see nothing about handing him a job and not one of Benson, Hicks and Mastroianni if they outperform him. And if he is going to be sitting on the bench, like he did last season, I'd rather see Ramirez or Boggs do that... The other thing is that this team is too LH as is, so I'd rather have Benson (who has the same options and is the same age and bats RH and a much better fielder than Parmelee...)

If he doesn't have it, sent him to AAA to get it.

If this was the end of spring training, would you assess he doesn't have it and send him down? What would be the basis of your assessment?

h2oface
03-03-2013, 08:06 PM
If Parmelee doesn't start hitting, it won't matter where it is he doesn't play.