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John Bonnes
02-18-2013, 07:10 PM
Anthony Catrovince tries to be gentle, but isn't optimistic about the Twins 2013 season:


So, the Twins will probably have their share of struggles again in '13, particularly in an AL Central that has seen some improvement. But if the Twins' recent luck in the health department turns around and the injection of starting options helps to stabilize the staff, you can at least view these coming months as the wheels the organization uses to escape from the 90-plus loss column and venture toward better days.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130217&content_id=41735008

Thrylos
02-18-2013, 07:29 PM
Thanks for this. Got to love the nuggets these references contain:


"I like this organization and I like winning," Gardenhire said. "We did a lot of that around here. And I'd like to get back to that.

Thus is my biggest issue with the people who run the Twins (to the ground.) They are happy for mediocrity and would like to get back to "that". Better than .500?; win the division?
If your manager is not setting the goal where is should be: Back to THAT (1991 and 1987), there is no wonder that THAT will never happen with those people as leaders.
You have to set your sights up high, otherwise you will never get there.

LoganJones
02-19-2013, 10:43 AM
Thanks for this. Got to love the nuggets these references contain:



Thus is my biggest issue with the people who run the Twins (to the ground.) They are happy for mediocrity and would like to get back to "that". Better than .500?; win the division?
If your manager is not setting the goal where is should be: Back to THAT (1991 and 1987), there is no wonder that THAT will never happen with those people as leaders.
You have to set your sights up high, otherwise you will never get there.
Yes, that's totally what Gardy was saying. He liked going to the playoffs and losing.

edavis0308
02-19-2013, 10:54 AM
Yes, that's totally what Gardy was saying. He liked going to the playoffs and losing.

Well in all fairness, Gardy was just happy to be there.

mnfanforlife
02-19-2013, 10:56 AM
You have to set your sights up high, otherwise you will never get there.

Not if your dreamy expectations are ridiculous and unattainable. Its nice to dream big, but those dreams still need to be grounded in reality. Goals/dreams are important, but they won't make your roster better than it actually is....and if your expectations are too high, you'll never reach them. Frustration is the end result in that scenario.

Expectations for the 2013 Twins are right where they need to be. No one should be expecting much, and a goal of 75 wins is attainable, but will probably be a challenge for this squad

I understand, you want World Series titles. But even a few years down the road, that may be unattainable. A realistic vision for this ORG would be to imagine another prolonged streak of division titles starting around 2015-16. I wouldn't expect any WS rings, unless you want to be continually frustrated for the next 10 years.

Badsmerf
02-19-2013, 12:25 PM
Not if your dreamy expectations are ridiculous and unattainable. Its nice to dream big, but those dreams still need to be grounded in reality. Goals/dreams are important, but they won't make your roster better than it actually is....and if your expectations are too high, you'll never reach them. Frustration is the end result in that scenario.

Expectations for the 2013 Twins are right where they need to be. No one should be expecting much, and a goal of 75 wins is attainable, but will probably be a challenge for this squad

I understand, you want World Series titles. But even a few years down the road, that may be unattainable. A realistic vision for this ORG would be to imagine another prolonged streak of division titles starting around 2015-16. I wouldn't expect any WS rings, unless you want to be continually frustrated for the next 10 years.
Have you ever won anything at a high level? Aiming to win a World Series isn't unattainable. Wow dude.

edavis0308
02-19-2013, 12:31 PM
I don't have a link or anything, but I feel like in the past Gardy had made comments after their playoff sweeps against the Yankees about how they were just happy to be there or something. Pretty much saying that they had no real shot to be competing against someone like the Yankees and that they accomplished all they were capable of..

nicksaviking
02-19-2013, 12:40 PM
I don't have a link or anything, but I feel like in the past Gardy had made comments after their playoff sweeps against the Yankees about how they were just happy to be there or something. Pretty much saying that they had no real shot to be competing against someone like the Yankees and that they accomplished all they were capable of..

I agree the Twins way too often play the "Aw shucks, thanks for inviting us little guys" card, but I don't recall Gardy ever being anything more than dejected after the playoff loses.

70charger
02-19-2013, 12:56 PM
Thanks for this. Got to love the nuggets these references contain:



Thus is my biggest issue with the people who run the Twins (to the ground.) They are happy for mediocrity and would like to get back to "that". Better than .500?; win the division?
If your manager is not setting the goal where is should be: Back to THAT (1991 and 1987), there is no wonder that THAT will never happen with those people as leaders.
You have to set your sights up high, otherwise you will never get there.

You'll just read whatever you want into a Gardenhire quote, won't ya? Remember that Gardy was on the Twins coaching staff in 1991. How come you didn't assume he was talking about that​?

edavis0308
02-19-2013, 12:58 PM
I agree the Twins way too often play the "Aw shucks, thanks for inviting us little guys" card, but I don't recall Gardy ever being anything more than dejected after the playoff loses.

It very well could have been more of an impression I was left with than it was what was actually said.

LoganJones
02-19-2013, 01:58 PM
First, they need to get to .500. Then they need to make it to the playoffs. Then they need to succeed in the playoffs. They have all those goals for this year, but there's no sense in making grand proclamations about playoffs in the face of 190 losses. Of course they want to win the world series this year. That's every baseball person's goal every year. Doing so will take a level of play across the whole team that they've only seen in a few players thus far. Does that mean it can't happen? No. Does it mean it's likely to happen? Nope. Gardy just makes sure his comments aren't too much all the time. It's just how he talks to the press.

birdwatcher
02-19-2013, 02:24 PM
Yep. Once more, thrylos reads a quote. Yep. Once more, thrylos draws the most unfavorable conclusion possible. Yep. Once more, all the rest of us predicted he would.

Yawn.

glunn
02-19-2013, 02:28 PM
Yep. Once more, thrylos reads a quote. Yep. Once more, thrylos draws the most unfavorable conclusion possible. Yep. Once more, all the rest of us predicted he would.

Yawn.

Could we be a little bit less personal with these comments? Everyone here is entitled to an opinion, and we all share passion for our team. This post is probably not over the line, but I think that we can all benefit form being a bit more respectful.

mikeee
02-19-2013, 02:30 PM
I got a smirk about the comment of leading the league in rehabbing arms... :cry:

Twins Twerp
02-19-2013, 02:35 PM
I don't think the Twins had the "aw shucks" philiosophy. All you can ask for is to make to the playoffs every year. Of course you want to win it. Every team has a chance to win the world series once they make it to October, and the best team rarely wins. I would argue that the Twins had the best team back in the AL back in '06 and went in as the hottest. But the playoffs are a different kind of game. Teams like the Giants and the Cardinals always seem to find a way in. They do it with homegrown players. This is the thing that made Minnesota great and the philisophy that will get the Twins back to the playoffs, where anything is possible.

twinsnorth49
02-19-2013, 03:40 PM
Not if your dreamy expectations are ridiculous and unattainable. Its nice to dream big, but those dreams still need to be grounded in reality. Goals/dreams are important, but they won't make your roster better than it actually is....and if your expectations are too high, you'll never reach them. Frustration is the end result in that scenario.

Expectations for the 2013 Twins are right where they need to be. No one should be expecting much, and a goal of 75 wins is attainable, but will probably be a challenge for this squad

I understand, you want World Series titles. But even a few years down the road, that may be unattainable. A realistic vision for this ORG would be to imagine another prolonged streak of division titles starting around 2015-16. I wouldn't expect any WS rings, unless you want to be continually frustrated for the next 10 years.

You're right, quitting is the best course of action. http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fighting/beating-head-against-the-wall.gif

ThePuck
02-19-2013, 03:45 PM
I'm probably reading into things a bit, but Ryan, when talking about a few of his acquisitions (like, say, Correia), said he hadn't seen him but was relying on what his scouts and the stats said...

Now you have Gardy saying: '"I'm making my own decisions," Gardenhire said. "I haven't seen these guys enough to sit there and read reports and have somebody tell me this or that. I want to see them. I need to see these guys. I want to make my own decisions."....'

'...So I want to make my own decisions, rather than seeing a scouting report."'


Probably nothing, but it sure sounds like he's taking a swipe at the Cue Ball Wizard...

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130219&content_id=41792872&notebook_id=41792882&vkey=notebook_min&c_id=min

twinsnorth49
02-19-2013, 03:45 PM
It very well could have been more of an impression I was left with than it was what was actually said.

With all due respect I think you're way off base (no pun intended). I think Gardy is a competitor, question his methods sure, but not caring about winning and being happy with getting close doesn't fit the description of any professional athletes or coaches.

ThePuck
02-19-2013, 03:48 PM
You're right, quitting is the best course of action. http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fighting/beating-head-against-the-wall.gif

No need to aim high or set your goals too lofty...it's only been 21 seasons since the last W Series appearance...unreasonable to suggest the goal should be a W Series win in the next 10 seasons.

twinsnorth49
02-19-2013, 03:52 PM
No need to aim high or set your goals too lofty...it's only been 21 seasons since the last W Series appearance...unreasonable to suggest the goal should be a W Series win in the next 10 seasons.

Which would make 31 years between appearances, reach for the stars!!

Seth Stohs
02-19-2013, 04:07 PM
It very well could have been more of an impression I was left with than it was what was actually said.

Oh... well, then...

edavis0308
02-19-2013, 04:15 PM
Oh... well, then...

Yeah yeah yeah. I was just adding to the comments. I wasnt pointing out that someone was wrong or anything.

Anyway, moving along. Nothing to see here.

CDog
02-20-2013, 12:00 PM
On the topic of the original post, I often wonder why do we care what the national perspective is? It doesn't change how many games they're going to win or how any of the players will perform. And from having read forecast articles in the past in places like Sports Illustrated, ESPN, etc, they are often comically mis-informed on facts, so the opinions based on those facts seem to have little value.

spideyo
02-20-2013, 01:00 PM
I know it sounds hokey and a bit cliche, but maybe it's not a bad thing if everyone expects the twins to suck. We've got young kids trying to prove they belong in the big leagues, injured guys trying to prove they can recover, and a handful of vets trying to pump up their value for their next big contract. Maybe everyone else thinking they're gonna suck will help pull these guys together to try and defy the odds.

The one encouraging thing I see about the Twins right now is they have a lot of question marks. I know it sounds odd, but I'd rather have a lot of guys where we don't know what they're going to give us, than a team full of guys who we KNOW will suck.

Riverbrian
02-20-2013, 01:10 PM
The Twins just need to believe they can win. Yes... Baseball can be fantasyland that way.

If the Pitching can keep them in games... They will win a few and they will believe they can win.

If you think you have a chance... It's a whole new ball game. Its gonna come down to pitching.

Kwak
02-20-2013, 02:45 PM
National Media--read major market "journalists". They are much like the beat reporters, except there beat is much, much larger. They pander to "their audience" just like the local yokels pander to the Twins or the rest of the local teams. The national types just breakout the cliches and write what their audience wants to read--not necessarily facts but previous perceptions. There is a very good reason that many refer to ESPN as "The Eastern Sports Programming Network"--they pander to "their audience".

LoganJones
02-20-2013, 02:51 PM
When there is no evidence to support it, it's irresponsible to report likelihood of success. This doesn't mean the Twins can't or won't win the division. It does mean they will need to collectively play at a higher level than their recent track records. Except for the guys who have payed well, of course.

twinsnorth49
02-20-2013, 03:20 PM
When there is no evidence to support it, it's irresponsible to report likelihood of success. .

This should be a disclaimer for any future positive posts regarding Kevin Correia.