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Twins Fan From Afar
03-20-2012, 11:38 AM
You can view the page at http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.php?340-Centerfield-Trade-Bait

Gernzy
03-20-2012, 01:16 PM
I could see us trading either Revere or Benson for a solid SP. Might have to throw more then that on the table, but it really depends on the year they have.

Wachsta
03-20-2012, 01:31 PM
I can't imagine selling low on Hicks unless he completely falls out of favor with the team. I like his plate discipline and am not ready to give up on his raw talent. I think it would make the most sense to sit back and evaluate our OF depth. If Revere proves he can handle LF and Benson excels in AAA, it might be in our best interest to move Revere while his perceived ceiling is high. Then again, Gardy loves Revere's scrap (as do I), so if we're in contention I'm sure they'd move Benson for an overrated late inning arm. If Hicks does re-emerge as a top-3 prospect and we aren't winning, look for Span to be dealt.

SweetOne69
03-20-2012, 01:35 PM
I could see us trading either Revere or Benson for a solid SP

I see Span being traded before either Revere or Benson (especially Benson). If the Twins are out of it by midseason and Span, Morneau, Liriano, Baker and Pavano are healthy and performing they provide the highest trade value.

Twins Fan From Afar
03-20-2012, 01:40 PM
I see Span being traded before either Revere or Benson (especially Benson). If the Twins are out of it by midseason and Span, Morneau, Liriano, Baker and Pavano are healthy and performing they provide the highest trade value.

Morneau would have to have some sort of amazing recovery to establish value (I'm hoping he is able to put everything behind him, for the record!).

Mr. Ed
03-20-2012, 01:42 PM
Do not trade Joe Benson.

WHY? to keep some slappy hitting/weak-armed outfielders ? Bah.

roger
03-20-2012, 01:43 PM
Benson will likely be the Twins centerfielder for a decade, beginning sometime in 2013. You don't trade future all-stars. On the other hand, I see the Twins moving one of the four. Just not Benson!

mike wants wins
03-20-2012, 01:50 PM
What team is going to trade a sold starting pitcher for Ben Revere? No chance that happens. If Hikck's production ever matches his hype, I'd keep him, because his hype is off the charts. I'm not sure why you'd deal him if he's a top, top prospect again. It's not like there are impact players all over the minors...

John Bonnes
03-20-2012, 01:54 PM
Is Benson really a center fielder? I know he's played most of his time there in the minors, but it has been far from exclusive, even as recently as 2010. I can't imagine him playing center field if Span, Revere or Hicks is on the roster. and after a string of center fielders that include Torii, Gomez, Span and Revere, I have trouble seeing the Twins giving him that job.

cr9617
03-20-2012, 01:57 PM
Benson will likely be the Twins centerfielder for a decade, beginning sometime in 2013. You don't trade future all-stars. On the other hand, I see the Twins moving one of the four. Just not Benson!

An All-star? That's just a little bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?


I would like the Twins to make a forward-thinking trade.... for once. I have my doubts though..

ben
03-20-2012, 01:58 PM
and after a string of center fielders that include Torii, Gomez, Span and Revere, I have trouble seeing the Twins giving him that job.

The only thing I can think of that all those center fielders have in common is that they cover a lot of ground, but my understanding is that Benson also covers a lot of ground and is just a bit slower than Revere. Or were you making another point?

Mr. Ed
03-20-2012, 02:09 PM
The only thing I can think of that all those center fielders have in common is that they cover a lot of ground, but my understanding is that Benson also covers a lot of ground and is just a bit slower than Revere. Or were you making another point?

From what I've read only a little 'slower' than Revere.

MUCH stronger arm. Hicks has a strong arm as well.
There is no way that long term, if they can hit, either of these guys is not the Twins CF, and some noddle-arm like Span/Revere is.

Just watch the # of runners score from 2nd on Revere this year. I am expecting teams to be very aggressive on his weak arm. ANd while he makes hi-light catches, Revere should be run on due to the throwing inefficiencies.

chaderic20
03-20-2012, 02:15 PM
If the Twins are out of it by midseason and Span, Morneau, Liriano, Baker and Pavano are healthy and performing they provide the highest trade value.

I agree, if the Twins are out of the race, and any of those guys have "returned to form" we need to trade them for whatever prospects we can get. I think we're all in agreement that some of the Twins' best players (or maybe I should say potentially their best players) are a few years away, so if any of the guys above have value at the deadline, we might as well see if we can get another prospect, particularly a pitching prospect, or two that will be coming up at the same time.

SweetOne69
03-20-2012, 02:15 PM
Morneau would have to have some sort of amazing recovery to establish value (I'm hoping he is able to put everything behind him, for the record!).

All Morneau would have to do is show that he is healthy and productive. If he can overcome his issues of the last 1.5 seasons, he would be a great addition to some team for $20M for the next 1.5 seasons. If Parmelee excels in AAA I think the Twins would really like to trade Morneau and start Parmelee (especially in 2013).

Right now the players with the highest trade values are Span and Morneau because production is not the issue. If they can show that they are healthy they could bring the most return. Pavano, Baker and Liriano are next on the list as they would be 2nd half rentals so they won't bring back as much.

diehardtwinsfan
03-20-2012, 02:29 PM
If the Twins are out of contention, I could see Span fectching them something very nice at the trade deadline. 2 years from now, I think we will be looking at an OF of Benson/Hicks/Arcia with Revere hopefully being traded or acting as a 4th OF. I don't see a lot of room for Span on that one, but we should have a very good idea by the trade deadline as to whether or not they should be dealing Span. I think it makes sense if this team finds itself rebuilding again. A healthy and performing Span should be able to fetch a starting pitcher with a pretty decent ceiling that isn't thaaaaaaaaaat far out.

If that's the case, the real question is when you start calling these guys up. I could see using Revere as a placeholder until Hicks is ready, but I really don't like him as a long term answer.

2wins87
03-20-2012, 02:39 PM
Is Benson really a center fielder? I know he's played most of his time there in the minors, but it has been far from exclusive, even as recently as 2010. I can't imagine him playing center field if Span, Revere or Hicks is on the roster. and after a string of center fielders that include Torii, Gomez, Span and Revere, I have trouble seeing the Twins giving him that job.

From everything I've heard, he has the tools to be a plus center-fielder, and has performed well there in the minors. Similar speed to Span, much better arm, good body control (whatever that means). So yeah, I think he really is a center-fielder, but that doesn't mean the Twins won't move him to keep Span in center or to make room for Hicks to come up behind him. His arm would play well in right field. An outfield of Revere-Span-Benson, or Revere-Hicks-Benson could swallow a lot of fly-balls.

jimbo92107
03-20-2012, 02:41 PM
Benson LF, Hicks CF, Span RF. Best outfield in baseball for half a dozen years.

2wins87
03-20-2012, 02:49 PM
I doubt Revere has a lot of trade value. He'd be a 4th outfielder on most clubs, and may still end up there for the Twins. I think Span could get a very good return. Benson will also likely be able to generate a good return, but it's unlikely the FO is thinking of shipping him anytime soon and they probably shouldn't be.

I'd be interested to see what kind of prospects Span could pry from a playoff contender looking for a table-setter near the trade deadline. I'd think a potential impact guy in the upper levels plus one or two interesting guys at the lower levels. Maybe the Twins could end up with a couple power pitching prospects.

mediocre
03-20-2012, 02:58 PM
Does Angel Morales fit into this conversation at all? I know he's played with Hicks a bit meaning he hasn't played center an awful lot, but I've read he has the speed and arm to play there. Does seem to have contact issues which need to be rectified but all of these guys have flaws (they are minor leaguers). I've heard everything from "could be a Carlos Beltran-type" to "could be the next Carlos Gomez" on this guy but who knows.

An outfield of Benson in left, Hicks in center, and Arcia/Morales in right has me salivating, but everyone needs to realize that a lot has to go right for all three/four of those guys. And I'm really hoping the organization doesn't fall too in love with Revere. I like the kid and he is fun to watch, I just don't see him as a great building block for the future.

cr9617
03-20-2012, 03:19 PM
All Morneau would have to do is show that he is healthy and productive. If he can overcome his issues of the last 1.5 seasons, he would be a great addition to some team for $20M for the next 1.5 seasons. If Parmelee excels in AAA I think the Twins would really like to trade Morneau and start Parmelee (especially in 2013).

Right now the players with the highest trade values are Span and Morneau because production is not the issue. If they can show that they are healthy they could bring the most return. Pavano, Baker and Liriano are next on the list as they would be 2nd half rentals so they won't bring back as much.

Ummmmm.....Morneau ISN'T healthy and/or productive. That's the whole point. Until those things are established(which is no sure thing), he has pretty much zero trade value.

Seth Stohs
03-20-2012, 03:23 PM
Is Benson really a center fielder?

Absolutely!


Benson LF, Hicks CF, Span RF. Best outfield in baseball for half a dozen years.

I like that OF, but I would go with Span in LF, Benson in CF and Hicks in RF. Span is just solid. Benson is the fastest of that group and has a rocket for an arm. Hicks is also fast but his arm is the strongest of the group. Honestly, you could flip-flop Benson and Hicks, but all three are CF, great athletes and that would, potentially, be a great defensive outfield!

Seth Stohs
03-20-2012, 03:25 PM
Does Angel Morales fit into this conversation at all?

He should, but after an injury-filled 2011, he probably has to play well in 2012 to be back in the discussion. He's a terrific athlete, good outfielder, very good speed, strong arm... although he hasn't hit a lot of home runs since E-Town, most belive he's got the power and the swing to hit HR. People forget that he is younger than Aaron Hicks, even though he was drafted a year earlier.

SweetOne69
03-20-2012, 03:36 PM
Ummmmm.....Morneau ISN'T healthy and/or productive. That's the whole point. Until those things are established(which is no sure thing), he has pretty much zero trade value.

All indications are the he is healthy, he just hasn't got his timing back yet.

And the season hasn't started yet either.

nicksaviking
03-20-2012, 03:36 PM
All this talk about moving an outfielder to make room for Benson and eventually Hicks demonstrates that signing Willingham to a three year deal when the club is rebuilding was perhaps an unwise decision. The knee jerk reaction to replace Cuddyer with a comparable not only blocked younger player's development, but took away $8 million for the next 3 years that could have been better spent on pitching. Don't forget, this team is also looking for playing time for Trevor Plouffe also. Hopefully Willingham has a very nice first half and his 3 year deal looks like a bargain to a contender at the trade deadline. Any of the outfielders should be available for a quality young arm, but Willingham should be shopped as soon as Benson shows he's ready at Rochester.

SweetOne69
03-20-2012, 03:43 PM
All this talk about moving an outfielder to make room for Benson and eventually Hicks demonstrates that signing Willingham to a three year deal when the club is rebuilding was perhaps an unwise decision. The knee jerk reaction to replace Cuddyer with a comparable not only blocked younger player's development, but took away $8 million for the next 3 years that could have been better spent on pitching. Don't forget, this team is also looking for playing time for Trevor Plouffe also. Hopefully Willingham has a very nice first half and his 3 year deal looks like a bargain to a contender at the trade deadline. Any of the outfielders should be available for a quality young arm, but Willingham should be shopped as soon as Benson shows he's ready at Rochester.

Not really. Benson should be ready in 2013 but the rest won't be until mid-2014 or 2015 (End of Willingham's contract).

Shane Wahl
03-20-2012, 04:05 PM
I agree with Seth's post here. Span in LF, Benson in CF and Hicks in RF.

For those of you are talking about Span being traded . . . who's your leadoff hitter?

SweetOne69
03-20-2012, 04:09 PM
I agree with Seth's post here. Span in LF, Benson in CF and Hicks in RF.

For those of you are talking about Span being traded . . . who's your leadoff hitter?

If Span is traded this year, Carroll would slide into the leadoff role.

jimbo92107
03-20-2012, 04:16 PM
Absolutely!



I like that OF, but I would go with Span in LF, Benson in CF and Hicks in RF. Span is just solid. Benson is the fastest of that group and has a rocket for an arm. Hicks is also fast but his arm is the strongest of the group. Honestly, you could flip-flop Benson and Hicks, but all three are CF, great athletes and that would, potentially, be a great defensive outfield!

True that all three are CF's, but I've seen Span in person in RF. He was incredible. Played like he was born there. I'm assuming Hicks has more range than Benson, and his arm should be like a young Torii Hunter. Benson I put in LF because he throws right. Verily you could swap them any which way and get good defense. The only real questions for the newbies are, can they hit?

Thrylos
03-20-2012, 04:35 PM
If the Twins are not in the race by the end of July, I see Span traded for a young up and coming SP. If the Twins are in the race by the deadline, I see someone like Hicks get traded for an established SP. I don't think that Marquis will last the season either way

roger
03-20-2012, 05:22 PM
An All-star? That's just a little bit of a stretch, wouldn't you say?


I would like the Twins to make a forward-thinking trade.... for once. I have my doubts though..

I have seen a lot of comparisons to Torii Hunter. Personally, I see Benson as eventually being better than Hunter. A step faster, same football mentality in the outfield, top defender, a lot of power, and yes, he will continue to strike out a bit too often. All-Star, yes!

Twins Fan From Afar
03-20-2012, 05:48 PM
If the Twins are not in the race by the end of July, I see Span traded for a young up and coming SP. If the Twins are in the race by the deadline, I see someone like Hicks get traded for an established SP. I don't think that Marquis will last the season either way

I'm not sure about Span and Hicks, but I think you're right about Marquis.
In all seriousness, though, a healthy Span, with his reasonable contract, somewhat young age, and demonstrated ability in the field and at the plate, would fetch the best return, I suppose.

Pitz
03-20-2012, 07:33 PM
I understand the thinking in terms of trading one of these guys, but I feel the expectations for what the Twins could get in return are a bit unrealistic. It seems to me that teams aren't very willing to trade pitching prospects. I think the best they could get for Span would be someone who projects as a #3 starter. Maybe that would still be valuable for a Twins system that needs pitching, but I'm not sure it would be worth trading a quality leadoff hitter to get.

Shane Wahl
03-21-2012, 08:53 AM
I understand the thinking in terms of trading one of these guys, but I feel the expectations for what the Twins could get in return are a bit unrealistic. It seems to me that teams aren't very willing to trade pitching prospects. I think the best they could get for Span would be someone who projects as a #3 starter. Maybe that would still be valuable for a Twins system that needs pitching, but I'm not sure it would be worth trading a quality leadoff hitter to get.

Exactly. Not that lineup order is vitally important other than general OBP, but a leadoff guy is important. Jamey Carroll in that role might be tolerable to some, I suppose.

The only way one is going to get the starter the Twins need is by packaging prospects together. One of these CFs, some top pitching prospect and maybe some second-tier OFs (Tosoni, Bigley, Roberts) might be a package that gets you something.

mike wants wins
03-21-2012, 08:59 AM
thrylos, you see Terry Ryan trading a top prospect for a MLB player? Wow. That would potentially be a sign that 2012 is the end of the world, wouldn't it?

Brandon Warne
03-21-2012, 09:04 AM
Maybe the Astros? Ha ha.

Bud Norris for Ben Revere. I'd do that deal today.

twinkiesfan11
03-21-2012, 02:58 PM
Maybe the Astros? Ha ha.

Bud Norris for Ben Revere. I'd do that deal today.

I've been thinking the Braves would line up pretty well in a trade. Maybe something centering around Denard Span for any one of Beachy, Minor, Delgado or Jurrjens. The Braves need a long-term centerfielder badly and have a ton of pitching to spare.

Thrylos
03-21-2012, 03:27 PM
thrylos, you see Terry Ryan trading a top prospect for a MLB player? Wow. That would potentially be a sign that 2012 is the end of the world, wouldn't it?

They've done it before recently when in contention... Not all top prospects (other than Ramos), but not junk: Pino for Pavano, Hamburger for Guardado, Mulvey for Rauch, Ramos and Testa for Capps, Van Mil for Fuentes. Allegedly, Bill Smith was "running the club". I am sure that Ryan was part of the decision making process...

Thrylos
03-21-2012, 03:34 PM
I understand the thinking in terms of trading one of these guys, but I feel the expectations for what the Twins could get in return are a bit unrealistic. It seems to me that teams aren't very willing to trade pitching prospects. I think the best they could get for Span would be someone who projects as a #3 starter.

A comparable trade would be that of McLouth from the Pirates to the Braves for Gorkys Hernandez, Jeff Locke and Charlie Morton before the deadline in 2009. Before the 2009 season, Baseball America ranked Hernandez at the Braves' 4th best prospect (behind Hanson, Heyward and Schafer) and 69th oveall in Baseball, Locke their 6th overall and Morton was very good as well (and already in the majors and like a #3-4 starter for the Pirates already.) And their Braves' system was stocked back then.

And I think that Span will bring more because he is signed to a very team friendly contract.

James Richter
03-22-2012, 01:41 AM
All this talk about moving an outfielder to make room for Benson and eventually Hicks demonstrates that signing Willingham to a three year deal when the club is rebuilding was perhaps an unwise decision. The knee jerk reaction to replace Cuddyer with a comparable not only blocked younger player's development, but took away $8 million for the next 3 years that could have been better spent on pitching. Don't forget, this team is also looking for playing time for Trevor Plouffe also. Hopefully Willingham has a very nice first half and his 3 year deal looks like a bargain to a contender at the trade deadline. Any of the outfielders should be available for a quality young arm, but Willingham should be shopped as soon as Benson shows he's ready at Rochester.

This is exactly right - Willingham has to go before Span does. Money guaranteed Willingham through 2014: $21M. Money guaranteed Span: $14.75M. Willingham might not return as much, but Span will probably provide more value, and Benson should more than make up for Willingham in all facets of the game.

Or, if it looks like Hicks isn't going to put things together, hold onto Willingham and move Revere. They could keep Revere as the 4th OF, but he's probably worth more to someone else. I just don't think he's ever going to be as good as Span.

Benson and Hicks in RF/CF and Span in LF is my dream OF. So much OBP, such good defense. Get it going, Hicks!