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dave_dw
03-16-2012, 09:22 AM
I was browsing Fangraphs, and I came across these interesting stats.

In 2011, the Twins had a 9.8 WAR.
In 2011, Jacoby Ellsbury had a 9.4 WAR.


I hope 2011 is a year we can all look back on and laugh at.



(The WAR calculations combine hitting, fielding, & base running for non-pitchers)

James
03-16-2012, 10:12 AM
That is scary. I would kind of like to see a breakdown for the team. Was the low overall WAR from a lack of players with a decent WAR (a lot of players with a WAR of 0.1 or so), or were there some players with very negative WARs that brought down the average? How does that compare to other teams around the league?

I admit, I could do this research myself, but I don't know if I have the time. Sounds like it would be a fun article to read about though.

dave_dw
03-16-2012, 10:20 AM
Here's (http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0&team=8&rost=0) the player by player totals for the Twins. Pretty ugly.

James
03-16-2012, 11:02 AM
It does look pretty ugly. It is interesting to see that Denard Span's isolated power stat is higher than Delmon Young's for last year. That might be a little different if you through his Detroit stats in there, but I'm not sure it would change that much.

Also a fun fact:
Tsuyoshi Nishioka (WAR 2011): -1.7
Adam Dunn (WAR 2011): -2.9

whydidnt
03-16-2012, 11:03 AM
Not too surprising. Ellsbury was amazing last year, and it seems every Twin under performed. When you lose 99 games, you are bound to have a lot players that are worse than replacement (-WAR). This is the concern this year as well, if Mauer and Morneau don't return to pre-2011 form, the Twins are without any star quality players and it will be a fight to win 70 games.

Jeff P
03-16-2012, 11:04 AM
Yea, that is ugly. Ben Revere the third most valuable position player on the team? Wow.

jwestbrock
03-16-2012, 11:14 AM
The fact Nishioka was -1.4 WAR in only 68 games really speaks volumes for how bad he was. The only people who were worse were Bill Hall (-1.6 in 62 games), Felix Pie (-2.1 in 85 games), and Adam Dunn (-2.9 in 122 games)

Neinstein
03-16-2012, 02:25 PM
I'm hoping for an average of 2010 and 2011 from the plate and mound.
The Offense looks to be depending on the bench to round it out. Pitching... who really knows.
336

nicksaviking
03-16-2012, 02:53 PM
Shocking only because WAR can be a negative number. Michael Cuddyer must have had about an 80 WAR to keep the team's total out of the red.

Highabove
03-16-2012, 02:58 PM
Does this show that the 2011 Twins were 9.8 wins better then a full AAA Team playing in the Majors?

davidjcampbell
03-16-2012, 03:06 PM
It does look pretty ugly. It is interesting to see that Denard Span's isolated power stat is higher than Delmon Young's for last year. That might be a little different if you through his Detroit stats in there, but I'm not sure it would change that much.

I just had to look, if you include his DET numbers, Young's ISO for 2011 skyrockets to .125 (from .092 as a Twin in 2011). James is right, there is only so much you can do in 40 games.

wblmayo24
03-17-2012, 05:18 PM
Considering WAR refers to wins above replacement, or games that a particular player has won that a AAA player would not have. Since the 2011 Twins had multiple AAA players and a handful of AA players, to have a WAR above 0 is remarkable. #GT

Teflon
03-17-2012, 09:08 PM
Even in Delmon's 21 HR, 112 RBI "breakout" season of 2010, he ended up netting a WAR of a paltry 1.8 because he was, without a doubt, the worst defensive left fielder in Twins history. (Jason Repko in 124 plate appearances the same season put up a 1.6.) You could blame part of Delmon's woes on Michael Cuddyer and Jason Kubel because Delmon's lack of range would have been hidden better by the Twins in RF had it not already been fostering that less-than-fleet pair. That's why the Twins overtures to playing Plouffe in LF this year is frightening. Haven't they learned anything? Yes, Revere is overmatched in a lot of a-bats, but his range in LF is exactly what this team needs. If you want Ploufe's bat, then DH him.

Teflon
03-17-2012, 09:12 PM
I was browsing Fangraphs, and I came across these interesting stats.

In 2011, the Twins had a 9.8 WAR.
In 2011, Jacoby Ellsbury had a 9.4 WAR.


I hope 2011 is a year we can all look back on and laugh at.



(The WAR calculations combine hitting, fielding, & base running for non-pitchers)

Do you remember when the Red Sox were offering us Jacoby Ellsbury or Jon Lester for Johan Santana and we wouldn't make the deal because we wanted both? (And ended up with Carlos Gomez, Deolis Gara, and Phil Humber?)

Neinstein
03-17-2012, 10:02 PM
Do you remember when the Red Sox were offering us Jacoby Ellsbury or Jon Lester for Johan Santana and we wouldn't make the deal because we wanted both? (And ended up with Carlos Gomez, Deolis Gara, and Phil Humber?)

Yeah, that was one trade that I will never forget as long as I have a memory. It included Kevin Mulvey also, I remember thinking Humber and Mulvey would both become 3 & 4 type starters and that Deolis Guerra would one day become the next Liriano.