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View Full Version : Spring Training - Game 15 - vs Pirates



Parker Hageman
03-15-2012, 08:23 AM
Twins made some cuts this morning - which Seth Stohs documented here (http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?322-Twins-Make-First-Roster-Cuts) - no of which are surprising. Unfortunately for Steve Pearce, he will not get to square off against his former organization as after straining his calf (on his leg, not on his ranch) he was re-assigned to the minor league camp.

Here's today's lineups courtesy of the Star Tribune's Joe Christensen (http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/142763915.html):


Pirates
Alex Presley, LF
Jose Tabata, RF
Andrew McCutchen, CF
Garrett Jones, DH
Casey McGehee, 3B
Yamaico Navarro, 2B
Matt Hauge, 1B
Josh Harrison, SS
Eric Fryer, C

Jo Jo Reyes, LHP

Twins
Denard Span, CF
Jamey Carroll, SS
Joe Mauer, C
Danny Valencia, 3B
Trevor Plouffe, LF
Aaron Bates, 1B
Luke Hughes, DH
Wilkin Ramirez, RF
Alexi Casilla, 2B

Terry Doyle, RHP


Today's game can be heard locally on 1500ESPN as well as MLB.TV.

Thrylos
03-15-2012, 11:24 AM
Doyle is really digging himself in a deep hole this Spring.

glanzer
03-15-2012, 11:25 AM
Doyle is probably on his way back to the White Sox with what's unfolding here today.

Jim Crikket
03-15-2012, 11:27 AM
I just tuned in and it's 6-0... so I'm assuming Doyle isn't doing much to establish himself with the club.

Nicholas Mueller
03-15-2012, 11:32 AM
7-0 now. #itsnothappening. Anthony Swarzak is pitching now.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 11:32 AM
One out was McGahee thrown by Mauer, so Garrett Jones strikeout was the only out Doyle recorded. Swarzak in.

Nicholas Mueller
03-15-2012, 11:35 AM
10-0 now. :(

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 11:37 AM
Brutal. Nice game for the fans to watch in FM.

glanzer
03-15-2012, 11:39 AM
Note that the Twins have yet to score more than 6 runs in an entire game yet this spring...

Twins Fan From Afar
03-15-2012, 11:40 AM
So is Mauer's arm/throws to second looking better this year?

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 11:41 AM
10-zip after 1/2 inning. 15 to the plate.

Nicholas Mueller
03-15-2012, 11:44 AM
Was Scott Diamond this bad in one inning last year?

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 11:46 AM
Carroll ground out after Span reached on an error. Carroll currently .056. Good thing it's early,

Seth Stohs
03-15-2012, 11:49 AM
Safe to say that wasn't the start the the Twins or Terry Doyle were hoping for today!

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 11:52 AM
Mauer, par for the course, 4-3, Span goes to third (If I was watching TV I'd hear: BERT: He did his job, he got the runner over)
Valencia : rbi single.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 11:53 AM
Plouffe walks in the 5 spot, Bates out to snuff out the rally. 10-1.

Thrylos
03-15-2012, 11:55 AM
To Doyle's defense (and his performance was awful) : he did not plan to start today (Baker was) so not sure when Baker was scratched and whether Doyle prepared for this game. Same to Swarzak's defense: he was slated to go in the 4th inning so probably not ready when he got in. This is not the season, but ST...

Twins Fan From Afar
03-15-2012, 12:00 PM
To Doyle's defense (and his performance was awful) : he did not plan to start today (Baker was) so not sure when Baker was scratched and whether Doyle prepared for this game. Same to Swarzak's defense: he was slated to go in the 4th inning so probably not ready when he got in. This is not the season, but ST...

That's a valid point, thrylos.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 12:01 PM
Swarzak 1-2-3 second inning.

Gernzy
03-15-2012, 12:05 PM
Came back from lunch...put on Gameday...wow

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 12:10 PM
Twins Clawing back

Hughes single
Wilkin R. Force out
Casilla walk
Span rbi single

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 12:15 PM
Carroll F8 (Limbo: How low can the average go?)
Double steal w/Mauer up
Mauer 2 run single
Valencia ground out

10-4

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 12:27 PM
11-4

Lead off solo HR, and 2 out double off Swarzak.

2 1/3IP 5H/3R/BB/K

Shane Wahl
03-15-2012, 12:35 PM
Bates doubles, Hughes walks. Wilkin Ramirez up. 11-4 in the 3rd.

Good to see that Span stole another base.

Shane Wahl
03-15-2012, 12:38 PM
Ramirez flies out to right. It's up to Alexi.

Shane Wahl
03-15-2012, 12:41 PM
And he strikes out. 11-4 going to the 4th.

mikeee
03-15-2012, 12:41 PM
2 on, no out, no score 3 batters later.

Thrylos
03-15-2012, 12:47 PM
Doom!!!!!!

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 12:48 PM
Dumatrait comes in and gives up another HR. Glad he's not wasting a spot on the 40 man roster.

Highabove
03-15-2012, 12:57 PM
I ask this with all sincerity, but why do folks believe that Doyle is ready for the Majors. He has yet to pitch at the AAA level?

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 01:24 PM
Dumatrait gave up another HR, 2 run shot to Garrett Jones

Hughes RBI double after double by Plouffe. Hughes bat warming up.

Horrid pitching day.

Fanatic Jack
03-15-2012, 01:30 PM
Jim,

I told you Terry Doyle should be offered back to the Chicago White Sox ASAP. Kyle Waldrop just moved up the charts. Yes!!!!!!!!

edavis0308
03-15-2012, 01:33 PM
Jim,

I told you Doyle should be offered back to the Chicago White Sox ASAP. Kyle Waldrop just moved up the charts. Yes!!!!!!!!

I dont think too many people will disagree with you over the fact that Doyle was going to be an underwhelming move that was going to have little upside.

Seth Stohs
03-15-2012, 01:33 PM
I ask this with all sincerity, but why do folks believe that Doyle is ready for the Majors. He has yet to pitch at the AAA level?

It wasn't that we 'knew' he was ready for the big leagues... but as a Rule 5 pick, he is on the 40 and either makes the team or doesn't. Jsut because he didn't play at AAA doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't ready. Just because he got hit hard today... and his last outing... doesn't necessarily mean he isn't ready. I think we're also all smart enough to know that a very, very small percentage of Rule 5 picks stick with the team that selects them, at least not on the big league level.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 01:40 PM
It wasn't that we 'knew' he was ready for the big leagues... but as a Rule 5 pick, he is on the 40 and either makes the team or doesn't. Jsut because he didn't play at AAA doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't ready. Just because he got hit hard today... and his last outing... doesn't necessarily mean he isn't ready. I think we're also all smart enough to know that a very, very small percentage of Rule 5 picks stick with the team that selects them, at least not on the big league level.

yet I keep reading how Benson/Dozier/Parmelee allneed to go to Rochester because they haven't played much or any AAA ball.

Which is my argument. Just because those 3 haven't played at Roch much or at all, they need to get more season. I don't agree with that.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 01:44 PM
Dru solidifies his death grip on the #3 catcher with a RBI double.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 01:48 PM
Capps a 1-2-3 7th vs Pirates subs.

mikeee
03-15-2012, 01:57 PM
3 errors for the twinkies.

Seth Stohs
03-15-2012, 02:10 PM
yet I keep reading how Benson/Dozier/Parmelee allneed to go to Rochester because they haven't played much or any AAA ball.

That's part of the reason... In each case, there is also a solid reason why getting AAA time would be good... the first and foremost is playing time. All three are good prospects who are young enough that you don't want them in a reserve role. The OF is currently set for the Twins. The middle infield appears set at this time. And, at least for now, the Twins have a 1B and a DH. So, none of the three would play, so they might as well go play in Rochester. Secondly, i think each of them has things that they can improve upon by playing more. With Benson, I think that by playing he can (hopefully) improve his contact rate. Parmelee had a solid 2011 in NB but not eye-popping, so he can continue to work to see if the power he showed in September and in March is legit after showing little power in his minor league career, including at New Britain. I think Dozier's might just be a case of two other guys getting the first chance. There are mixed opinions even among Twins brass about if he can be an everyday SS, 2B or if he's more of a utility player.

Like I wrote the other day, there are plenty of guys that the Twins have called up from AA and kept up for whatever reason. Joe Mauer. Brad Radke. But it is an exception for sure for a guy to be called up from AA. It isn't because it's AA, but it's generally because there is something that needs to continue to be improved.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 02:13 PM
So Doyle may be ready, but you're sure that those 3 are not.

Ok, got it.

Seth Stohs
03-15-2012, 02:19 PM
Those three may be, but you have to agree that there are things they could work on. I think all three could play for the Twins today and be alright.

With Doyle, I really don't know. Clearly there are things that he needs to work on. however, the circumstances are completely different due to the Rule 5 draft. They just are.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 02:24 PM
I just don't think Doyle is worth keeping with the arms coming. I think there are others that could pitch better in the bigs, and Doyle isn't worth it.

yes, the others need to work on things. Doesn't mean i agree with it. I think Benson is least polished, but I take him over Revere. Parmelee I take over Morneau right now, because Morneau doesn't seem ready. And Dozier I would have taken over Carroll, but he's not a vet, so Gardy got his security blanket.

But just because Doyle stood out against a bunch of kids in AZ Fall League doesn't mean he's ready for MLB either.

And so far, the results back it up.

ben
03-15-2012, 02:25 PM
So Doyle may be ready, but you're sure that those 3 are not.

Ok, got it.

If Benson, Dozier, or Parmalee were rule 5 picks, they would have a much better chance of making the team. If Doyle had options, he would probably receive less consideration for making the team.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 02:26 PM
The Twins,and some fans, must still be dreaming they'll get another Johan in Rule V

Seth Stohs
03-15-2012, 02:39 PM
The Twins,and some fans, must still be dreaming they'll get another Johan in Rule V

I don't think anyone things like that. I think we'd all be happy with a solid middle or long reliever.


But just because Doyle stood out against a bunch of kids in AZ Fall League doesn't mean he's ready for MLB either.

I know that. hey, Cole DeVries pitched nearly as well in the AFL and the Twins didn't even invite him to camp despite a terrific 2011 regular season.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 02:47 PM
I would not be happy with Terry Doyle as a middle/long reliever. I really think there are better candidates at Spring Training. Doyle would be occupying a
roster spot of someone more deserving.

I hope they don't compound this thinking Doyle can help by trading a prospect, like they did last year to keep Scott Diamond. Losing Bullock may or may not
haunt them, but hard-throwers in this organization are like a rare gem.

Fanatic Jack
03-15-2012, 02:56 PM
Let’s be honest the Terry Doyle experiment has failed and needs to come to an end. He is not even Scott Diamond Jr!!!! I actually agree with Seth (big shocker) we have a lot of good arms to choose from for three open bullpen spots. I like Burton, Waldrop, and Gutierrez myself, but the Maloney kid has impressed the hell out of me. I keep waiting for him to get lit up and it does not happen. You can’t keep a bad player on your roster just because he was selected in the Rule 5 draft and trust me Ryan knows this. The Twins might have one more guy to pick from if they sign Michael Wuertz. Yes……… Please……. Yes……………

Seth Stohs
03-15-2012, 03:19 PM
I wrote today that I liked what Brendan Wise brings to the table in terms of a different delivery than normal, and a ton of movement on his pitches, ground ball tendencies, etc. As many have said, I think he compares to Kyle Waldrop in terms of movement, ground balls, etc. With both of them not getting a ton of strikeouts, you're going to have days like Wise had today... 1 IP, 3 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 0 K.

I also wrote that all those bullpen guys who had allowed 0 or 1 ER to that point in the spring could have a game where they give up 3 ER in an inning and insteda of a shiny 0.00 ERA, suddenly it's 5+... Wise's is at 6.75 and yet he's pitched pretty well in 3 out of 4 outings.

But without seeing, I dont' know if Wise was hit hard, or if those ground balls just found holes.

Jim H
03-15-2012, 03:56 PM
I don't know whether the Twins will keep Doyle or not. Just remember Santana wasn't ready either when he was kept as a Rule 5 pick. I believe his ERA was around 5 that first year and he was generally used as a mop up guy. The difference was the Twins weren't good that year, and had little expectations. I expect the evaluation process is a bit different on a Rule 5 guy. It is also possible the Twins don't care that he has been bad in a couple of outings. It might make it is easier to get him through waivers, and make a deal with the White Sox. That's assuming the Twins want to keep him.

Thrylos
03-15-2012, 04:06 PM
I don't know whether the Twins will keep Doyle or not. Just remember Santana wasn't ready either when he was kept as a Rule 5 pick. I believe his ERA was around 5 that first year and he was generally used as a mop up guy. The difference was the Twins weren't good that year, and had little expectations. I expect the evaluation process is a bit different on a Rule 5 guy. It is also possible the Twins don't care that he has been bad in a couple of outings. It might make it is easier to get him through waivers, and make a deal with the White Sox. That's assuming the Twins want to keep him.

Santana's ERA was 6.49 actually. But there is a huge difference. He was 21 on his first season with the Twins. Doyle turned 26 last November. I still think that it is too early to give up on him. Give him a couple weeks and he might turn it around. If he does not, back to the White Sox...

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 04:16 PM
I don't know whether the Twins will keep Doyle or not. Just remember Santana wasn't ready either when he was kept as a Rule 5 pick. I believe his ERA was around 5 that first year and he was generally used as a mop up guy. The difference was the Twins weren't good that year, and had little expectations. I expect the evaluation process is a bit different on a Rule 5 guy. It is also possible the Twins don't care that he has been bad in a couple of outings. It might make it is easier to get him through waivers, and make a deal with the White Sox. That's assuming the Twins want to keep him.


Seth, nobody thinks about another Santana? :cool:

Shane Wahl
03-15-2012, 04:31 PM
It wasn't that we 'knew' he was ready for the big leagues... but as a Rule 5 pick, he is on the 40 and either makes the team or doesn't. Jsut because he didn't play at AAA doesn't necessarily mean that he isn't ready. Just because he got hit hard today... and his last outing... doesn't necessarily mean he isn't ready. I think we're also all smart enough to know that a very, very small percentage of Rule 5 picks stick with the team that selects them, at least not on the big league level.

I do think that Doyle has potential with a year at AAA. Maybe instead of releasing players like Ciurcina and Pedro Guerra, they could have been kept around just long enough to offer up in exchange for Doyle? I still don't understand the story with those two. Maybe there were off the field issues. If so, that's fine to get rid of them, but maybe not until you see about the Rule 5 draft (actually I don't remember if the R5 draft was before or after the releasing??). Good lord, pass those off-the-field issues onto the White Sox!

Shane Wahl
03-15-2012, 04:44 PM
I wrote today that I liked what Brendan Wise brings to the table in terms of a different delivery than normal, and a ton of movement on his pitches, ground ball tendencies, etc. As many have said, I think he compares to Kyle Waldrop in terms of movement, ground balls, etc. With both of them not getting a ton of strikeouts, you're going to have days like Wise had today... 1 IP, 3 H, 3 ER, 1 BB, 0 K.

I also wrote that all those bullpen guys who had allowed 0 or 1 ER to that point in the spring could have a game where they give up 3 ER in an inning and insteda of a shiny 0.00 ERA, suddenly it's 5+... Wise's is at 6.75 and yet he's pitched pretty well in 3 out of 4 outings.

But without seeing, I dont' know if Wise was hit hard, or if those ground balls just found holes.

And let's not forget that he comes with a big endorsement from Hendriks, who even if he isn't the most talented pitcher, knows pitching.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 05:03 PM
LaVelle on this game:


http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/142855975.html

ashburyjohn
03-15-2012, 05:04 PM
Thrylos has a point; on the other hand if Doyle needs to know (like a starter) well in advance when he'll be pitching then he's not a great candidate for the bullpen duties that a Rule-5 draftee often draws.

Thrylos
03-15-2012, 05:13 PM
LaVelle on this game:
(copy and paste of LEN3's writeup)



Darn! methinks that cutting and pasting whole writeups like this will get our hosts in trouble... and we don't want that. It's ok to have some quotes from it but the Strib people (who have recently made their site a pay site) will have a major cow if they see that...
Really.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 05:33 PM
Thrylos has a point; on the other hand if Doyle needs to know (like a starter) well in advance when he'll be pitching then he's not a great candidate for the bullpen duties that a Rule-5 draftee often draws.

So what is Doyle's excuse for the other 'bad' outing?

Nerves?

Maybe he's just not very good.

Mr. Ed
03-15-2012, 06:03 PM
Darn! methinks that cutting and pasting whole writeups like this will get our hosts in trouble... and we don't want that. It's ok to have some quotes from it but the Strib people (who have recently made their site a pay site) will have a major cow if they see that...
Really.


Edited.

I will crawl back in the hole i came out of now, so Twins Daily doesn't get punished.

ashburyjohn
03-15-2012, 09:38 PM
Mr. Ed, I guess that was my point, to dispute whatever weak excuse Doyle seemed to think he had.

Seth Stohs
03-15-2012, 10:12 PM
Seth, nobody thinks about another Santana? :cool:

I stand corrected. What people forget is that the rules of eligibility for the Rule 5 draft changed a few years ago and teams get an extra year to evaluate whether or not to put players on the 40 man roster. It's much more difficult for people to slip through the cracks.