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View Full Version : who is going to bat leadoff for the twins?



rogrulz30
12-28-2012, 11:31 PM
I know it seems preposterous, but at this point, which I would be in big favor of, but know would never happen, but my vote would be Mauer.

Mauer
Hicks
Willingham
Morneau
Parmalee
Doumit
Plouffe
Florimon
Carroll

. If your chances of scoring a run w/ no outs and someone on first is.5, I think I like Mayer here more than anyone on the roster right now. It would b fun to see a manager go outside the safe zone once

Shane Wahl
12-28-2012, 11:43 PM
I wonder why you would do that with Hicks in lineup? Hicks is a better option for that role with his speed. Mauer batting second is a full-fledged monumental achievement for this manager.

If Hicks is on the roster, he will be the leadoff hitter and Mauer SHOULD OBVIOUSLY bat second.

Absent Hicks and any other signing, I think Jamey Carroll bats first and Mauer second.

Top Gun
12-29-2012, 12:54 AM
1 CF Darin Mastroianni (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2011/07/darin-mastroianni-of-toronto-blue-jays.html)
2 2B Jamey Carroll (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2008/12/jamey-carroll-if-los-angeles-dodgers-14.html)
3 C Joe Mauer (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2009/03/joe-mauer-c-minnesota-twins-7.html)*
4 LF Josh Willingham (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2009/07/josh-willingham-of-washington-nationals.html)
5 1B Justin Morneau (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2009/03/justin-morneau-1b-minnesota-twins-33.html)*
6 DH Ryan Doumit (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2010/02/ryan-doumit-cof-pittsburgh-pirates-41.html)**
7 RF Chris Parmelee (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2011/07/chris-parmelee-1b-minnesota-twins-64.html)* BA#9 BP#15
8 3B Trevor Plouffe (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2008/07/trevor-plouffe-if-minnesota-twins-24.html)
9 SS Pedro Florimon, Jr. (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2009/06/pedro-florimon-jr-ss-baltimore-orioles.html)**

RodneyKline
12-29-2012, 01:07 AM
I like your idea to bat Mauer leadoff. Now before everyone blows this idea off, think about it...What do you want in an ideal leadoff? Mauer has everything except speed. It is an unconventional place to bat a guy with his size but he doesn't hit like a 6' 5" 240 pound monster, He hits like a 5' 10" 180 pound guy at the most. Another couple reasons to bat Mauer leadoff. He will lead the league in on base percentage almost every year, no matter where he bats. He will get about 100 more at bats in a year than batting 3rd. He will have one at bat per game that he can't kill a rally by hitting into a double play. The Twins need to realize that Joe is not a three hole hitter. He has never had 100 RBIs and he hits third??? The #2 hole like Rod Carew is where his natural spot is but with all his double plays, it might make sense for him to bat leadoff. The only thing he lacks from being a perfect leadoff hitter is blazing speed, otherwise he is perfect.

edavis0308
12-29-2012, 02:00 AM
Top Gun that's the most sense you've made all off season. I hope for Hicks but think Maestro is more likely in this case. No need for Hicks. I'd like it if he was though.

twins4121
12-29-2012, 02:52 AM
i'd say hicks #1 Mauer #2

TopGunn#22
12-29-2012, 08:52 AM
I agree Mauer should hit 2nd. As a #3 he has never knocked in 100 runs. Even in his MVP year with 28 HR's he didn't knock in 100. He should bat 2nd. If Maestro has to start the season in CF, you hit him leadoff until Hicks is up. Plus, hitting Mauer #2 moves Plouffe's power up to 7th in the order.

johnnydakota
12-29-2012, 09:16 AM
what do you want from a leadoff batter?
high obp?
take lots of pitches?
and the ability to steal?
ok Joe has 2 of 3 ,and isint slow of foot...
when you get some one who has 3 of 3 then you move Mauer back ...

Thrylos
12-29-2012, 09:19 AM
The idea of batting Mauer leadoff reminds me of the idea of batting Wade Boggs leadoff for some reason and that worked considerable well for his club.

Back to the original question: too early to tell. Let's figure out who are the 25 who are going North first, see how they did in ST (eg. how many walks did Hicks take from MLB-pitchers) and then we can talk more...

Rosterman
12-29-2012, 09:27 AM
Mauer bats leadoff. #2 hitter can't be a ground-ball double-play batter. Also, can't be a flyout guy. Wait, that means Mauer can't bat leadoff. You have to have someone who can beak up a doubleplay (and not risk injury).

As lead-off, Mauer will look at pitches, but he also swings and connects (shades of Ben Revere) but more for line-drives that at least get out of the infield.

Mauer is the perfect #3 hitter as your laadoff guy should be at second by the time he comes to bat.

Mastro/Hicks leadoff. Carroll will bat second. To start the season. Benson is the dark horse candidate.

Badsmerf
12-29-2012, 12:08 PM
There is an unwritten rule with Gardy, play CF bat leadoff.

SpantheMan
12-29-2012, 12:55 PM
With Gardy CF almost always hits leadoff and a MI almost always hits 2nd. I would prefer Mauer in the 2hole but it isn't happening.

SpantheMan
12-29-2012, 12:58 PM
People new to stop saying Mauer shouldn't hit 3rd because he doesn't have many RBIs. He drove in 18.1% of runners on base when he batted. Higher than Willingham and 8th in the league (according to gleeman).

mike wants wins
12-29-2012, 01:16 PM
So the reason Mauer did not get many RBI is that The guys in front of him did not get on base.....leading one to conclude you should put high OBP people at the top of the lineup.....

TheLeviathan
12-29-2012, 02:22 PM
1 CF Darin Mastroianni (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2011/07/darin-mastroianni-of-toronto-blue-jays.html)
2 2B Jamey Carroll (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2008/12/jamey-carroll-if-los-angeles-dodgers-14.html)
3 C Joe Mauer (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2009/03/joe-mauer-c-minnesota-twins-7.html)*
4 LF Josh Willingham (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2009/07/josh-willingham-of-washington-nationals.html)
5 1B Justin Morneau (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2009/03/justin-morneau-1b-minnesota-twins-33.html)*
6 DH Ryan Doumit (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2010/02/ryan-doumit-cof-pittsburgh-pirates-41.html)**
7 RF Chris Parmelee (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2011/07/chris-parmelee-1b-minnesota-twins-64.html)* BA#9 BP#15
8 3B Trevor Plouffe (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2008/07/trevor-plouffe-if-minnesota-twins-24.html)
9 SS Pedro Florimon, Jr. (http://www.mlbdepthcharts.com/2009/06/pedro-florimon-jr-ss-baltimore-orioles.html)**

Wait....this post is relevant to the topic........I'm confused.

Boom Boom
12-29-2012, 05:10 PM
So the reason Mauer did not get many RBI is that The guys in front of him did not get on base.....leading one to conclude you should put high OBP people at the top of the lineup.....

You should put high OBP guys everywhere in the lineup.

lee_the_twins_fan
12-29-2012, 05:26 PM
If you look at Hicks' OBP in AA, it was .384, pretty good, but not as good as Mauer's. If Hicks does well at spring training, he should probably be leadoff hitter. If not, put Mauer there. In addition to just more at-bats, since Mauer looks at a lot of pitches it would give the batters behind him more of a chance to see pitches too.

Shane Wahl
12-29-2012, 05:40 PM
It really isn't going to matter in terms of OBP who bats first or second. Things being relatively equal with respect to OBP (within 40 points or so, sorry Mastro), I would put the faster guy 1st.

Badsmerf
12-29-2012, 07:01 PM
People new to stop saying Mauer shouldn't hit 3rd because he doesn't have many RBIs. He drove in 18.1% of runners on base when he batted. Higher than Willingham and 8th in the league (according to gleeman).

There are many theories about the most effective way to construct a line-up. Some actually believe that you should put your best hitter in the leadoff spot regardless of speed, power, ect. The thought is moving them up in the order allows for more opportunities for your best hitter. Obviously no team in the league goes that drastic with it, but the idea of moving up your best hitters is valid. I'm fine with putting a guy like Span at leadoff, and even Hicks if he can post a respectable OBP. Since the Twins don't currently have a very good option for hitting second (actually Mauer is exactly what a 2 hitter should be...), moving Mauer up only makes sense. Put Willingham 3rd followed by Morneau and Plouffe.

Shane Wahl
12-31-2012, 09:26 AM
There are many theories about the most effective way to construct a line-up. Some actually believe that you should put your best hitter in the leadoff spot regardless of speed, power, ect. The thought is moving them up in the order allows for more opportunities for your best hitter. Obviously no team in the league goes that drastic with it, but the idea of moving up your best hitters is valid. I'm fine with putting a guy like Span at leadoff, and even Hicks if he can post a respectable OBP. Since the Twins don't currently have a very good option for hitting second (actually Mauer is exactly what a 2 hitter should be...), moving Mauer up only makes sense. Put Willingham 3rd followed by Morneau and Plouffe.

Good post. Another thing to consider is the fact that in the first inning the number 3 hitter often comes up with no one on and 2 out. What is the most likely way to score a run in such a situation? A home run. Generally speaking, the best overall hitters should be 1,2, and 4 in the lineup, with the biggest power threat going in the 4 spot and your next biggest power threat batting 3rd. The 4th spot should also be a guy with on base skills (always cracked/cracks me up to see someone like Alfonso Soriano almost always batting 1st or 4th!) since he often comes up to lead the second inning off. For the Twins, Willingham and Morneau seem pretty interchangeable at the 3 and 4, especially if Morneau's average stays under .290, so if flipping sides is important, batting Josh after Joe makes sense. Doumit makes the most sense to bat 5th, unless (hopefully) Parmelee takes off this year.

So:

Carroll (not sure who is a better option unless Hicks is on the roster--there was a 15 point OBP difference between Carroll and Mastro last year)
Mauer
Willingham
Morneau
Doumit
Plouffe
Parmelee
Florimon/Dozier
Mastroianni

ThePuck
12-31-2012, 01:13 PM
I want my best hitter and they guy who hits best with RISP to bat third. In this case, that's Mauer. I'll put my best power hitter at #4. If it's the same guy (like Pujols for years) I'll bat him 3rd.

Shane Wahl
12-31-2012, 01:37 PM
I want my best hitter and they guy who hits best with RISP to bat third. In this case, that's Mauer. I'll put my best power hitter at #4. If it's the same guy (like Pujols for years) I'll bat him 3rd.

Why wouldn't you want that person batting 4th? I have to wonder who more likely comes up with RISP, the 3rd or 4th hitter. I believe I read somewhere that it was the 4th hitter.

(Consider Mauer vs. Willingham's RBI chances in 2012).

Shane Wahl
12-31-2012, 01:39 PM
A general rule might be quite simple: stack the order based on OBP alone. I would like to see some team experiment with that.

FrodaddyG
12-31-2012, 01:39 PM
Why wouldn't you want that person batting 4th? I have to wonder who more likely comes up with RISP, the 3rd or 4th hitter. I believe I read somewhere that it was the 4th hitter.

(Consider Mauer vs. Willingham's RBI chances in 2012).
If the #3 hitter is leading the league in OBP like Mauer, then I'd say it's the #4 hitter.

snepp
12-31-2012, 01:40 PM
I believe it's both the 4th and 5th spots that see more RISP than the 3rd.

The 3rd spot also comes up with 2 out and the bases empty more often than any other.

edavis0308
12-31-2012, 02:19 PM
I think it depends on how good the 2nd baseman is of each team that follows the play second/bat second philosophy.

Shane Wahl
12-31-2012, 02:23 PM
I believe it's both the 4th and 5th spots that see more RISP than the 3rd.

The 3rd spot also comes up with 2 out and the bases empty more often than any other.

Yeah, that seems right. Clearly that is correct about the number 3 hitter, hence the benefit of having a power hitter there. I have to imagine that a lot of Mauer's RISP RBI came with Span and Revere 1-2 during Revere's hot streak in the middle of the season. Span and Revere around that time were both .350+ OBP, I believe. It doesn't look possible to replicate that this year, so Mauer has to be one of the top two. I can't see how Mastroianni's .325-.330 OBP is good enough at the top. I don't see any candidates other than Hicks and Carroll.

joeboo_22
12-31-2012, 04:36 PM
I don't know who bats 1, 2, 3 but I think the key is to not put a pair of .210 hitters a head of Mauer because they are fast or middle infielders. Unless someone is signed though I'd put Mauer 2nd behind who is playing CF