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View Full Version : Pirates signed Liriano



gunnarthor
12-21-2012, 09:47 AM
2/14. I guess it's a high risk/reward thing. Maybe he does better in the NL.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-21-2012, 09:58 AM
Wow. That is an odd contract. I am shocked to see him get more then 1 year.

I guess good luck to him and them, at least if he turns it around we won't have to face him.

Winston Smith
12-21-2012, 10:00 AM
Sets up an interesting comp. About the same money Liriano vs Correia over the next two years should give us great fodder.

Brock Beauchamp
12-21-2012, 10:01 AM
Quite a risk for the Pirates. They don't exactly have loads of discretionary money to spend on risky players.

Still, not a bad idea. If he can control his fastball at all, Liriano should be able to make NL hitters look like clowns.

Mr. Ed
12-21-2012, 10:03 AM
Free root canals every 5th day for Pirate fans, watching Liriano labor through games.Whew. Glad that re-signing didn't occur.Maybe the Twins can trade a top prospect for him near the deadline. History repeating itself.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-21-2012, 10:04 AM
Sets up an interesting comp. About the same money Liriano vs Correia over the next two years should give us great fodder.

Well he is getting paid 40% more each year.

I actually like Correia in that scenario to be honest. With Liriano you have to basically catch lightning in a bottle.

TopGunn#22
12-21-2012, 10:11 AM
Very interesting. With his stuff, he could be solid in the N.L. With his head, the Pirates may have just tossed $14-mil out the window...

nicksaviking
12-21-2012, 10:25 AM
Sadly, the Pirates also have more pitching depth than the Twins, so if he fails as a starter, the Pirates would be just fine commiting to putting him in the bullpen full time if needed.

Top Gun
12-21-2012, 10:29 AM
Scott Diamond recently underwent surgery to remove a bone chip from his left elbow.

FrodaddyG
12-21-2012, 10:35 AM
Well he is getting paid 40% more each year.

I actually like Correia in that scenario to be honest. With Liriano you have to basically catch lightning in a bottle.
Whereas with Correia, you're guaranteed diarrhea in a bucket.

Rosterman
12-21-2012, 10:39 AM
Now he gets to bat!

gil4
12-21-2012, 10:40 AM
I actually like Correia in that scenario to be honest. With Liriano you have to basically catch lightning in a bottle.

I would have preferred Liriano. His range is from dominant to horrendous. Correia's is from not very good to bad.

With Liriano, as you said, you have to catch lightning in a bottle. With Correia there is no lightning there to catch. I'd rather take a chance on the guy who has a chance, even if the odds aren't great.

Willihammer
12-21-2012, 10:46 AM
More proof that elite talent will sign anywhere if the money is good enough.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-21-2012, 10:50 AM
Now he gets to bat!

That would assume he can make it out of the 2nd inning in his starts.

Rick Blaine
12-21-2012, 11:07 AM
so in essence we traded Liriano for Correia-one lousy pitcher for another- and we're paying less-- Look at the sunny side-- this is a good move!

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-21-2012, 11:14 AM
More proof that elite talent will sign anywhere if the money is good enough.

Did you mean to post that in the Harden thread instead? :p

Boom Boom
12-21-2012, 11:22 AM
For 2/14 they can have him.

For 2/10 they can have Correia back, too.

johnnydakota
12-21-2012, 11:30 AM
Sadly, the Pirates also have more pitching depth than the Twins, so if he fails as a starter, the Pirates would be just fine commiting to putting him in the bullpen full time if needed.

With Taillon and Cole ready or nearly ready , it would not surprise me at all to see Frankie in the pen as a 1 inning reliever....
Especially with the Pirates looking to trade there closer

Willihammer
12-21-2012, 11:35 AM
Did you mean to post that in the Harden thread instead? :p

Which one

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-21-2012, 11:35 AM
With Taillon and Cole ready or nearly ready , it would not surprise me at all to see Frankie in the pen as a 1 inning reliever....
Especially with the Pirates looking to trade there closer

i think youre one to something there.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-21-2012, 11:36 AM
so in essence we traded Liriano for Correia-one lousy pitcher for another- and we're paying less-- Look at the sunny side-- this is a good move!

Definitely is an abomination of a contract. Makes the Correia a little easier to take.

70charger
12-21-2012, 12:01 PM
Definitely is an abomination of a contract. Makes the Correia a little easier to take.

+1

Dodged a bullet there...

Riverbrian
12-21-2012, 12:03 PM
We need arms but I don't want Liriano anymore... I've seen enough... With that Said... Watch him just dominate as a final poke in the eye to us Twins Fans.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-21-2012, 12:09 PM
We need arms but I don't want Liriano anymore... I've seen enough... With that Said... Watch him just dominate as a final poke in the eye to us Twins Fans.

This actually made me laugh out loud at work. I honestly think he will have ya know a couple good games that everyone will be like see we should have signed him! Then he will continue to be his old Liriano self and IMPLODE.:s-instagib:

Mr. Ed
12-21-2012, 12:15 PM
i think youre one to something there.

so 7 mill / year for him to close? Bleh.

Either way, good luck Bucs. You'll need it and a large dose of patience.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-21-2012, 12:22 PM
so 7 mill / year for him to close? Bleh.

Either way, good luck Bucs. You'll need it and a large dose of patience.

Amen to that.

USAFChief
12-21-2012, 12:24 PM
Definitely is an abomination of a contract. Makes the Correia a little easier to take.

The problem with Liriano is he most likely won't reach his potential.

The problem with Correia is he most likey will.

Rick Blaine
12-21-2012, 12:47 PM
The problem with Liriano is he most likely won't reach his potential.

The problem with Correia is he most likey will.

Excellent observation, Chief!

Fire Dan Gladden
12-21-2012, 01:06 PM
We need arms but I don't want Liriano anymore... I've seen enough... With that Said... Watch him just dominate as a final poke in the eye to us Twins Fans.

Of course he will. He will be added to the list of players the Twins didn't want who moved on and excelled:
Ortiz
Dickey
Hardy
Marquis
Garrett Jones (for a while)

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-21-2012, 01:19 PM
Of course he will. He will be added to the list of players the Twins didn't want who moved on and excelled:
Ortiz
Dickey
Hardy
Marquis
Garrett Jones (for a while)

Dont say that.

Fire Dan Gladden
12-21-2012, 01:30 PM
Dont say that.

Anybody want to put a percentage chance that Liriano is an all-star next year? I say 40%

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-21-2012, 01:41 PM
Anybody want to put a percentage chance that Liriano is an all-star next year? I say 40%

.000000001 %. SO im guessing you believe the Twins should have resigned Liriano?

gil4
12-21-2012, 03:16 PM
Anybody want to put a percentage chance that Liriano is an all-star next year? I say 40%

I'd say closer to 40% than Allhopeisgone's .000000001% . And yes, I would have resigned him for that.

mike wants wins
12-21-2012, 03:18 PM
Two years? Amazing.

Brock Beauchamp
12-21-2012, 03:19 PM
I must have missed the part where Liriano led the White Sox to a championship last October under Cooper's mentorship.

If Liriano does succeed with the Pirates, it will have everything to do with Francisco pulling his head out of his ass and nothing to do with the Pirates front office or coaching staff. And for $14m, I'd prefer to see someone other than the Twins roll those dice. I like the chance the Twins are taking on Haren and Pelfrey better than dishing that kind of money to Liriano.

(but the Correia signing was still awful)

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-21-2012, 03:56 PM
Anybody want to put a percentage chance that Liriano is an all-star next year? I say 40%

I'd say closer to 40% than Allhopeisgone's .000000001% . And yes, I would have resigned him for that.

haha you would have resigned Liriano...Are you nuts? For 2 years 14 million!? He is worth a mere fraction of that. Pfffttt 40%, yupp all of a sudden Liriano is going to turn into an All Star. No way.

gil4
12-21-2012, 04:01 PM
haha you would have resigned Liriano...Are you nuts? For 2 years 14 million!? He is worth a mere fraction of that. Pfffttt 40%, yupp all of a sudden Liriano is going to turn into an All Star. No way.

I picked him for the Cy Young last year, so I'm gradually tempering my expectations :)

diehardtwinsfan
12-21-2012, 05:04 PM
Well he is getting paid 40% more each year.

I actually like Correia in that scenario to be honest. With Liriano you have to basically catch lightning in a bottle.

Despite his inconsistency, I'd say the odds favor Liriano outperforming Correia by a wide margin. I suspect Correia doesn't finish his first year.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-21-2012, 05:20 PM
i think youre one to something there.

Well then they just grossly over paid for a guy who has zero track record of being successful in the pen.

USAFChief
12-21-2012, 05:39 PM
And for $14m, I'd prefer to see someone other than the Twins roll those dice.



What difference does the money make? As of now, that money is going into the Pohlad's pocket. I'd rather see it spent on someone who might help the Twins, even if it's a ".00000001" percent chance.

Rosterman
12-21-2012, 06:04 PM
Of course he will. He will be added to the list of players the Twins didn't want who moved on and excelled:
Ortiz
Dickey
Hardy
Marquis
Garrett Jones (for a while)

C'mon, if the Twins could've signed Ortiz for $700,000 or so, hey would've. But he was arbitration to high for them with how he had played. Remember, most other teams passed on him, too. Dickey is a fluke. The Twins signed him twice. If they had talked with Hardy and struck a deal, he would still be here....but the Twins thought he'd be too expensive, too. And they had blinders over the Japanese superstar. Marquis was cut loose too soon. But basically he was a wash. He allowed us yo experience Cole DeVries and Perdumo. Garrett Jones had no palce, blocked by Morneau and all the Twins outfielders of the most recent era. The Pirates gave him a chance and he shined, but don't see him drawing demand and $$$ elsewhere.

I'm totally surprised Liriano signed for $7 and two years. Too much to pay if you have to switch him to relief. Thought he would be lucky to get the $4 million with incentives for a year. I guess Pittsurgh is better than Miami or Houston, but the $-tight Pirates overpaid for him...and considering they though Correia was overpriced for them.

jokin
12-21-2012, 07:41 PM
I must have missed the part where Liriano led the White Sox to a championship last October under Cooper's mentorship. If Liriano does succeed with the Pirates, it will have everything to do with Francisco pulling his head out of his ass and nothing to do with the Pirates front office or coaching staff. And for $14m, I'd prefer to see someone other than the Twins roll those dice. I like the chance the Twins are taking on Haren and Pelfrey better than dishing that kind of money to Liriano. (but the Correia signing was still awful) I wish they would have taken the chance on Haren.

Fire Dan Gladden
12-21-2012, 08:05 PM
.000000001 %. SO im guessing you believe the Twins should have resigned Liriano?

Actually no, I think they overpaid to get him. To inconsistent for me. As electric as his stuff can be, he still comes out as a 4-5.

My guess of 40% is strictly due to the "Murphy's Law" effect the Twins seem to be incurring over the last few years. In reality, I'd say it would be closer to 15-20%. He has shown to be capable of ripping off 10-12 decent starts in a row. Being in the NL should help him tremendously.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-21-2012, 08:09 PM
What difference does the money make? As of now, that money is going into the Pohlad's pocket. I'd rather see it spent on someone who might help the Twins, even if it's a ".00000001" percent chance.

I would rather see it spent on anyone other than Liriano! Even Correia......

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-21-2012, 08:13 PM
I wish they would have taken the chance on Haren.

dont we all....

snepp
12-21-2012, 08:13 PM
I actually like Correia in that scenario to be honest. With Liriano you have to basically catch lightning in a bottle.

Unfortunately with Correia the only thing you're going to catch in a bottle is your own vomit after he leads you to a full fledged bender.

nicksaviking
12-21-2012, 08:30 PM
I'm still blaming the Cubs for kicking over the first two dominos in the fifth-starter over-spending spree.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-21-2012, 08:35 PM
I'm still blaming the Cubs for kicking over the first two dominos in the fifth-starter over-spending spree.

Not going to argue with you there.

Brock Beauchamp
12-21-2012, 09:23 PM
What difference does the money make? As of now, that money is going into the Pohlad's pocket. I'd rather see it spent on someone who might help the Twins, even if it's a ".00000001" percent chance.

You're right, the money doesn't matter. It's the second year I don't like (just as I didn't like the second year for Correia).

FrodaddyG
12-21-2012, 10:24 PM
I wish they would have taken the chance on Haren.
That's probably who JR thinks he just signed.

glunn
12-21-2012, 11:09 PM
Unfortunately with Correia the only thing you're going to catch in a bottle is your own vomit after he leads you to a full fledged bender.

Very graphic but probably true.

snepp
12-21-2012, 11:40 PM
That's nothing compared to when you wake up, next to Sidney Ponson, and wonder where it all went so wrong.

Paul Pleiss
12-22-2012, 12:53 AM
I like the signing for the Pirates, 2 years, 2 chances to catch the Liriano lightening in a bottle. Maybe 2 years is risky, but I think moving to the NL can only help Frankie. I think he'll be worth at least 1.0 WAR in the next 2 seasons, which is about a wash for the moeny the Pirates are investing.

jcphitman
12-22-2012, 09:53 AM
With the way the insane money was going for SP, I'm not surprised. I'd rather have Liriano over Correia even at more money Liriano was able to get. Liriano being left handed and the small promise of anything better than what we know Correia will give us makes bringing him back a better choice. However, what's done is done.

I wish Liriano the best. We'll find out if he has any promise left ... he has a better chance to succeed in the NL.

one_eyed_jack
12-22-2012, 01:58 PM
I wish they would have taken the chance on Haren.


dont we all....

---Haren wanted to go to a contender. He was pursued by multiple teams, but chose the Nats because he felt they had the best chance of winning a World Series. If that was his criteria, I don't see how Ryan was going to get him to come here.

Nationals make Dan Haren signing official (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/wp/2012/12/07/nationals-make-dan-haren-signing-official/)

one_eyed_jack
12-22-2012, 02:00 PM
The fact that a guy coming off a season in which he was dropped from 2 different starting rotations, one of which was the worst in baseball, is getting a deal like this tells you a lot about the free agent market for starting pitchers.

diehardtwinsfan
12-22-2012, 04:48 PM
The Twins could have gotten him for org filler and picked up his option if they wanted him.

Top Gun
12-22-2012, 06:15 PM
Brewers signed RHP Jim Hoey to a minor league contract.

The 29-year-old right-hander compiled a 5.47 ERA, 1.91 WHIP and 14/13 K/BB ratio over 24 2/3 innings in his last big league exposure with the Twins in 2011. He'll compete for a middle relief role in the Brewers bullpen.

glunn
12-22-2012, 11:55 PM
The fact that a guy coming off a season in which he was dropped from 2 different starting rotations, one of which was the worst in baseball, is getting a deal like this tells you a lot about the free agent market for starting pitchers.

Liriano has high upside. If he can pitch to his potential, he could win the NL Cy Young. There is a very high risk that he will do poorly, but the upside potential is also very high.

joeboo_22
12-24-2012, 12:23 PM
Burnett really improved is command in Pittsburgh. I would have liked Liriano to stay with the Twins but not as long as Rick Anderson and Gardy are at the helm it just seemed like two exact opposites. Maybe it was all Liriano and he is just this awful head case but I got the impression Andy and Gardy added a little more to the equation then was ever reported.

I don't think its a bad contract though, if Correia is getting 2-10 then Liriano is worth 2-14 any day of the week. If he has a sub 5 era and pitch 175 innings with decent KO numbers its about equal to value. If he fixes his control and has a sub 4 era and gets towards 200 IP's with above average KO numbers its one of the best deals this off-season.

At worst though I think he could become a decent setup man/closer and with the contracts being handed out its still not a terrible contract.

B Richard
12-24-2012, 03:36 PM
I keep seeing "oh, well if Liriano flounders he can just come out of the pen" ...Isn't 7M/yr a little much for a guy like him to be coming out of the pen? Obviously he is better in small doses, but his wildness won't just disappear. Comparatively, Mike Adams just signed for 2 yrs/12 M for the Phils. Adams isn't what he used to be but is clearly a step and a half above Liriano in bullpen value. I think the Pirates are expecting Liriano to start and continue to start for the money they are paying him.

70charger
12-24-2012, 04:14 PM
$7 million for each of 2 years is a little much for Liriano, period.

But expanding on your point, I'm not sure he'd be that great as a reliever. A guy with that kind of control problem and inconsistency could be way more dangerous out of the pen than you think.

Top Gun
12-24-2012, 06:23 PM
2yrs 7M isn't much, if he does well the Yankees will want him, if he does bad we can always take him back.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-24-2012, 06:37 PM
If we would have given Liriano 2/14 people would have been (rightfully) freaking out around here.

USAFChief
12-27-2012, 02:13 PM
If we would have given Liriano 2/14 people would have been (rightfully) freaking out around here.

You're probably right, many would freak out. But I have to ask...freak out over what? That the Pohlads will pocket $14m less over the next two years?

What possible harm would have come from signing a pitcher who at least has the physical tools to be a top of the rotation guy? They can afford five Lirianos, without damaging anything.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-27-2012, 02:57 PM
You're probably right, many would freak out. But I have to ask...freak out over what? That the Pohlads will pocket $14m less over the next two years?

What possible harm would have come from signing a pitcher who at least has the physical tools to be a top of the rotation guy? They can afford five Lirianos, without damaging anything.

Uh because it would be taking up 7 million of payroll next year? Payroll that could be used to land an ACE like Josh Johnson?

Nick Nelson
12-27-2012, 03:39 PM
Uh because it would be taking up 7 million of payroll next year? Payroll that could be used to land an ACE like Josh Johnson?

You're probably kidding, so I'd like to know what your actual rationale is for being so opposed to this type of contract. Of course the Twins are not going to sign a top-tier starting pitcher as a free agent next year, when the market will continue to inflate as TV money pours in. If ever in the history of this franchise there was a time when it would make sense to splurge on a free agent starter it is now, with money to blow and a crippling lack of MLB pitching talent within the organization. Yet they still appear to have absolutely no interest in doing so.

Honestly, the team's best chance of getting a front line pitcher for 2014 (short of an unlikely best-case scenario with one of their prospects) is probably signing one of these high upside guys to a 2/15 type deal and hoping he puts it together, giving you a bargain for the following year (or a very valuable trading chip for next offseason). At worst, they've got $7M next year sunk into a bust, which is barely more than they've got committed to the lousy Correia.

I think they're making a huge mistake by showing no interest in that kind of deal.

USAFChief
12-27-2012, 03:39 PM
Uh because it would be taking up 7 million of payroll next year? Payroll that could be used to land an ACE like Josh Johnson?

I almost believe you're serious.

Vervehound
12-28-2012, 10:48 AM
liriano will carve up the national league, but even when he does, it doesn't mean we should've signed him. bringing him back would've led to more of the same, imo.

i have a feeling he goes for 15 wins for the pirates this year, 3.3 e.r.a., 200ks and 70 bbs and helps lead them to a surprise playoff run. and then he falls apart in year two and doesn't finish the season in their rotation.