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Riverbrian
12-14-2012, 06:36 PM
Morosi reported that the Pirates, Mariners, Twins, Blue Jays and Indians have checked in with the Dodgers on Capuano and Harang.

My assumption is The Dodgers have to be asking for Perkins. Any thought of offering some scrubs would be pointless to get the trade completed with the Pirates rumored to be offering Hanrahan.

The Dodgers lack a talented lefty in the pen which brings us back to Perkins.

Would you do it? Is Perkins enough for both? Is Perkins too much for both? Do pieces have to be added to make a deal work? On wich side should the extra pieces come from?

What say you all?

glunn
12-14-2012, 06:43 PM
I think that this will depend on what other teams offer, but both of these guys seem solid and if the Twins could get them both for Perkins that would seem to be a good deal for the Twins.

JP3700
12-14-2012, 06:52 PM
I would rather sign Myers and Villanueva to similar contracts/money and keep Perkins.

beckmt
12-14-2012, 06:52 PM
Would think the Dodgers would want more. Perkins might get one of the two, but not both. Dodgers may want significant bullpen help for the two of them

Seth Stohs
12-14-2012, 06:55 PM
Perkins and Duensing should not be considered. I'm definitely interested in either Capuano or Harang, but neither should cost that much.

Riverbrian
12-14-2012, 07:25 PM
Seth... What do you think would get the job done?

jorgenswest
12-14-2012, 08:03 PM
These guys will be 34 and 35 years old.

It would be foolish to trade any future assets to get marginally better in 2013. It makes no sense after the deals of Span and Revere.

Top Gun
12-14-2012, 08:03 PM
I wouldn't trade Correia for both of them and if you can't judge talent better than that I think you should quit.

Seth Stohs
12-14-2012, 08:10 PM
In my opinion, I'd trade a C and a D prospect for either of them. No one with big upside, for sure. They're old. They're one year band-aids. The Dodgers are looking to trade them. Just to put some numbers, maybe a Twins 25-30 prospect and a 40-50 type?

Riverbrian
12-14-2012, 08:33 PM
I wouldn't trade Correia for both of them and if you can't judge talent better than that I think you should quit.

Are you just trying to start something?

Riverbrian
12-14-2012, 08:37 PM
In my opinion, I'd trade a C and a D prospect for either of them. No one with big upside, for sure. They're old. They're one year band-aids. The Dodgers are looking to trade them. Just to put some numbers, maybe a Twins 25-30 prospect and a 40-50 type?

Harang doesn't do much for me... But Capuano does... He's been pretty good in my opinion.

I guess I must be over valuing a bit... What if Dee Gordon was included?

stringer bell
12-14-2012, 08:37 PM
If the Twins can get either Capuano or Harang at a deep discount, sure get one of them. They are both better than any fourth or fifth starter in the Twins system. The big thing for this team is developing good starting pitching for the future. The development of Meyer, May and Gibson is crucial to the team. I could add Berrios and Wimmers and others, but let's stop there.

notoriousgod71
12-14-2012, 08:40 PM
Chad Gaudin and Aaron Cook seem more realistic.

twins4121
12-14-2012, 08:43 PM
Are you just trying to start something?

I was going to say the same thing. Both of these guys are older, but are better than Correia, AND both of them are cheaper than correia. Harang is a former strikeout champion (2006) and capuano is a former 18 game winner with a consistent ERA under 4.00... I do agree we shouldn't trade our future chips for them, but i think we can steal these guys and maybe make the 2013 season at least a little interesting. I'd much rather watch both of these guys than Deduno, Devries and hendriks again

Rosterman
12-14-2012, 09:14 PM
I don't know if we could steal them. Maybe include Gordon or Punto in the deal? Naw, I would just as soon sign a couple of non-yendered or, let's go after Marcum.

Linus
12-14-2012, 09:19 PM
To include Perkins in any of this is crazy. A high upside left hander who has been close to dominant out of the pen for a couple of over the hill placeholders is not a good deal. What is the fascination around here with washed up, aged pitching? I'm all for signing somebody that will be here 4 years from now but otherwise................

Riverbrian
12-14-2012, 09:20 PM
I don't know if we could steal them. Maybe include Gordon or Punto in the deal? Naw, I would just as soon sign a couple of non-yendered or, let's go after Marcum.

Pirates are rumored to be talking about the Hammer for Capuano. It's a rumor... But Hanrahan has some value... I would imagine...

I really don't know what it would take... That's why I'm asking for opinions... Capuano would be good for 2013 and 2014 with the option. I'd like him in a Twins uniform with Marcum.

Nothing about Capuano's numbers say washed up to me. We do need pitchers this year.

J-Dog Dungan
12-14-2012, 09:35 PM
For these pitchers, there is more reason for the Dodgers to get rid of them than for a team to pay for them, because they are fairly old and aren't exactly great. If we could get both of them for Perkins I would think about it, but I would have to say that I would still be more interested in going out and spending money on a guy like Edwin Jackson or Shaun Marcum than trading for those two.

LoganJones
12-14-2012, 09:35 PM
Hanrahan has little to no value to the Dodgers who are flush with swell right handed bullpen options. The Twins would be better off trying to get Capuano and Lilly. Pay both of their salaries in full in exchange for a halfway decent prospect and a not so good one. Maybe a lefty relief prospect and Benson, just to further deplete the CF depth. Really, I bet the first team willing to take 100% of their contracts will get them for whoever. I know the Dodger have money, but they can't actually want to be paying 16 Million to pitch in AAA, in case of injury.

Clyde
12-14-2012, 10:08 PM
They are two old guys who did a decent job filling their role on their ballclub. A decent trade might be send them Blackburn.

jorgenswest
12-14-2012, 11:48 PM
I was going to say the same thing. Both of these guys are older, but are better than Correia, AND both of them are cheaper than correia. Harang is a former strikeout champion (2006) and capuano is a former 18 game winner with a consistent ERA under 4.00... I do agree we shouldn't trade our future chips for them, but i think we can steal these guys and maybe make the 2013 season at least a little interesting. I'd much rather watch both of these guys than Deduno, Devries and hendriks again

You probably didn't enjoy watching the first two miserable years for Viola. His performance in those 57 starts was at he bottom of the major leagues and his second year was worse than the first. How about Radke? Santana after two years?

Signing decline phase pitchers may add a few wins over what Hendricks provides. The Twins may need to invest 60 starts to know for sure what they have in him. Developing young pitchers under team control is the only way out of this mess. The alternative is to continue the cycle of mediocrity and give the ball to decline phase pitchers that will not be part of the solution.

johnnydakota
12-15-2012, 12:52 AM
I hope Ryan looks into claiming lefty Josh Spenser from the yanks , he was designated today , a young lefty , who in 2 seasons has 40 innings pitched and 41 ks ,to go along with a combined 3.15 era
In the minors he had 120 innings and 120 Ks to go along with a 2.98 era

diehardtwinsfan
12-15-2012, 07:25 AM
I'd be interested in those pitchers, but not for guys you are building around. If the Dodgers want the guy we got for Valencia, fine, but not anything that might be a future contributor.

LA has 8 starters for 5 positions. They have no leverage on this trade.

Riverbrian
12-15-2012, 08:42 AM
The only leverage they would have is the interest from other teams.

So far... Heres what Im learning... Some on Twins Daily are not interested at all... Topgun is rude... And some are interested...

Most seem to think that it wouldn't take much at all to acquire them.

My Suggestion of a trade around Perkins is ridiculous and that's ok because i'm capable of ridiculous. I ordered at a drive thru the other day. Paid my money and drove off... Without the food... It's a special day when you have to turn around and drive back to get laughed at by the Wendy's guy. It was maybe the 3rd time I've done that in my life.

If it wouldn't take much... I see no reason why we shouldn't give up a little more than the "it wouldnt take much price" and pick up Capuano. He looked sharp in the innings I saw him pitch last year. We could really use the arm for 2013. He'd be #1 on our staff as we stand right now. Age is an issue but its a one year contract with an option. 6M for a decent left hander... I'm surprised that the Dodgers would give that away.

I understand the "don't jeopardize the future" thinking and I agree completely. However... We still have a roster for 2013 with names like Mauer, Morneau and Willingham on it. The 2013 ball hasn't been punted yet.

And not that Im trying to get rid of Perkins... I'm not...but What about Dee Gordon for Perkins... Am I closer to the ballpark now?

Top Gun
12-15-2012, 08:56 AM
Sorry Riverbrian didn't mean to be rude. I'm just tired of hearing trade for old NL pitchers. Dee is good but they won't trade him. The Twins are in a sorry state and trading only makes it worse' I can't believe they can't buy one.

Brandon
12-15-2012, 08:59 AM
I know that LA is showing off money and stuff. But this trade is about saving them some cash. How bout a cost control player like Swarzak or Burnett or Robertson and some cash say 1 million for Campuano and Punto. That would be a salary dump they could sell to fans down there and help themout with their bottom line as well. I have no idea what their bullpen looks like. So i could just be out in LF, there's no way I'd trade Perkins for either as he is likely to be here when we are good again.

I like the idea of getting a SS but the more I look at Dee Gordon the less I like him. I was advocating a trade for him earlier now I am not so sure of his potential.

Top Gun
12-15-2012, 09:11 AM
.
Jayson Stark of ESPN.com reports that the Indians, Mariners, Braves and Phillies have asked the Dodgers about Dee Gordon.
Despite the interest, the Dodgers have told the clubs that they're uninterested in trading Gordon right now. Gordon has stolen 56 bases over 143 games with the Dodgers but has batted just .260/.299/.315 with 23 extra-base hits (one home run). L.A. is obviously banking on him eventually cashing in on his upside. Dec 7 - 2:41 PM
Source: Jayson Stark on Twitter (https://twitter.com/jaysonst/status/277133704177008640)

SurroundedByTigers
12-15-2012, 09:19 AM
Morneau or Willingham are the only two Twins that can be traded to acquire pitching, and we should trade one of them this offseason to get as much pitching for next season or the future. Trading Perkins creates a big hole in the bullpen.

Top Gun
12-15-2012, 09:25 AM
How about the big hole in the lineup? It's bad already after trading the top two, what are you going to do about that?

old nurse
12-15-2012, 09:33 AM
I hope Ryan looks into claiming lefty Josh Spenser from the yanks , he was designated today , a young lefty , who in 2 seasons has 40 innings pitched and 41 ks ,to go along with a combined 3.15 era
In the minors he had 120 innings and 120 Ks to go along with a 2.98 era

Josh Spence was designated for assignment. If the Twins had wanted him they would have picked him up in November when he was waived by San Diego. Whatever he did in 2011 he wasn't doing in 2012. Dunsing would be the soft tossing lefty in the pen

old nurse
12-15-2012, 09:39 AM
Sorry Riverbrian didn't mean to be rude. I'm just tired of hearing trade for old NL pitchers. Dee is good but they won't trade him. The Twins are in a sorry state and trading only makes it worse' I can't believe they can't buy one.

Would you go to work for a company in such a sorry state? Three position players you have heard of and one backup you might have heard of are the only known players the Twins have. Were they merely mediocre it would be easier to get players interested.

stringer bell
12-15-2012, 09:48 AM
I'm not opposed to claiming a lefty specialist since I'm really not sold on Robertson. If Capuano/Harang were acquired and they performed well, but the team didn't wouldn't they be prime candidates to be moved for something decent at the trade deadline (as the Twins coulda/shoulda with Capps)?

TopGunn#22
12-15-2012, 09:59 AM
Riverbrain, good topic! At this point, Perkins is our closer, if we traded him, would that make Burton the guy? It was pointed out that the Dodgers are flush with RH bullpen options but have nothing from the left side. I would offer Perkins for Capuano, one of their RH bullpen guys (League is set to close, I doubt they would ever give up Kenley Janssen but they have an abundance of RH options) and Gorden. As Seth points out maybe we toss in a #25-50 prospect. We're sooo bad with middle infielders that I'd be interested in Gorden if LA would include him. He could steal 60 bases hitting out of the 9-hole.

Riverbrian
12-15-2012, 10:16 AM
I love Speed... A Young SS with upside would be a good get... Gordon has my interest. I just don't know what the Dodgers and Twins could do for a fair deal. Gordon and Capuano for ??? Zach Lee??? Harang??? The dodgers are overstocked and the overflow is interesting to me.

If Perkins is the price... Our closer spot could be Burton... He could do it... FA options still out there... Valverde... Brian Wilson... Some decent set up guys who could be converted.

Im just trying to grasp what is actually possible.

TopGunn#22
12-15-2012, 10:18 AM
I would add that the reason there are so many teams inquiring about Gorden is that the Dodgers have stated he will probably begin next season at AAA. Cruz will be their 3B and Hanley their SS to begin the year. If I was going to give up Perkins and a #25-50 prospect, I'd want Capuano, (who L.A. doesn't need), Gorden (who appears to not be in their immediate plans) and either Javy Guerra (who is 27 and has closed), or Shawn Tolleson (who is a 24 year old RHP).

Riverbrian
12-15-2012, 10:22 AM
I would add that the reason there are so many teams inquiring about Gorden is that the Dodgers have stated he will probably begin next season at AAA. Cruz will be their 3B and Hanley their SS to begin the year. If I was going to give up Perkins and a #25-50 prospect, I'd want Capuano, (who L.A. doesn't need), Gorden (who appears to not be in their immediate plans) and either Javy Guerra (who is 27 and has closed), or Shawn Tolleson (who is a 24 year old RHP).

If your proposed trade actually got done. I would be pumped. That would be huge for us. In reality... Which team would stop this trade?

TopGunn#22
12-15-2012, 11:07 AM
That's the $64 question Riverbrian. It's not like there are just 2 other teams interested in Capuano and/or Harang. There's a bunch! To me, it's more a question of how patient the Dodgers will be in dealing with this surplus of starting pitching, or, if someone steps up and offers them a piece they really covet (Perkins???) would they just pull the trigger. This is what makes speculation like this so difficult. On another thread I've suggested what kind of package I'd push for in a potential trade with Texas. But in my package, I'm valuing Morneau and Willingham very highly. Others are pointing out the shortcomings of Morney and Hammer. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But I like your question "What team could swoop in and top my offer?" Seth!!! Where are you when we need you???

mike wants wins
12-15-2012, 11:08 AM
If you are not adding top notch pitchers, Hendriks should be in the rotation all year to get him either started on a long career, or to move him to the pen. Trading for old guys and keeping him in AAA does no good for the future at all.

Riverbrian
12-15-2012, 11:25 AM
If you are not adding top notch pitchers, Hendriks should be in the rotation all year to get him either started on a long career, or to move him to the pen. Trading for old guys and keeping him in AAA does no good for the future at all.

I agree... Hendriks need another chance and this year is a good year for it.

I believe that we will have injury and failure. Just because Correia is listed as the 5... It doesn't mean he will stay the five.

Adding arms is adding competition... I think we can add Capuano and sign Edwin Jackson and still see plenty of Hendriks.

darin617
12-15-2012, 11:55 AM
I would say Pittsburgh trades for Capuano and he has a solid season for the Pirates. Just like the AJ Burnett trade of last season. Which begs to ask the question how good could this team be if the Twins traded for AJ Burnett last year and added Capuano to the rotation this season?
1. Burnett
2. Diamond
3. Worley
4. Capuano
5. Hendricks/Gibson

Top Gun
12-15-2012, 12:52 PM
It's about time to resign Capps!

diehardtwinsfan
12-16-2012, 11:35 AM
Again, why in the world would the Twins trade Perkins for a guy who will be a free agent in 2014?