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View Full Version : Article: Twins Should Strike While Stove is Hot



Nick Nelson
12-13-2012, 10:05 PM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1256-Twins-Should-Strike-While-Stove-is-Hot

J-Dog Dungan
12-13-2012, 10:09 PM
Great summary. I have the same feelings; you would think that the Twins would be aggressively pushing towards deals now with other pitchers to have a good shot at them now that teams that were interested in Greinke and Dempster have run out of luck.

Kwak
12-13-2012, 10:35 PM
Unless there is something big brewing (a trade or there was a sizeable offer to Marcum) I will conclude that Ryan was just a guy going to the auto show to look at cars he could not buy. A bit more time is needed before that conclusion is valid, but two weeks should be long enough.

mike wants wins
12-13-2012, 10:37 PM
Even from when? Certainly not even from last year's number.....nor the year before.

glunn
12-13-2012, 10:58 PM
Excellent article. I hope that Ryan gets in gear before all the decent free agents are taken.

Nick Nelson
12-13-2012, 10:59 PM
Even from when? Certainly not even from last year's number.....nor the year before.

Even with where they were at the start of the offseason.

ssp833
12-14-2012, 12:06 AM
I hope so much that they do turn aggressive to the remaining free agent pitchers. The two trades were so positive because they not only showed recognition that they were at a crisis level with pitching, but also showed a continuation toward power pitchers like we saw in the draft. Then the crushingly disappointing Correia signing. it seems to take us back to a feeling that they don't care. i desparately hope that the next move shows that they do - especially because they have the funding that they didn't have last year.

Shane Wahl
12-14-2012, 12:25 AM
I would offer Marcum the exact same deal as what the Red Sox gave Dempster. That should guarantee him, one would think. Add in an option year.

SCBackroads
12-14-2012, 08:05 AM
Nice visual. And, yes, it is quite obviously time for the Twins management to adopt some quality arms before all that's left are the dogs with too many fleas. Woof.

chagen
12-14-2012, 08:37 AM
That's how i look at it if you want to improve pitching don't you go get quality starting pitching instead the Twins get pitchers that know one else has interest in. Does anybody think the Twins are better off with Kevin Corriea in there rotation?

ThePuck
12-14-2012, 08:55 AM
That's how i look at it if you want to improve pitching don't you go get quality starting pitching instead the Twins get pitchers that know one else has interest in. Does anybody think the Twins are better off with Kevin Corriea in there rotation?

As I read around, it seems we are in a FA pitching loop. If we have a really good season, that means our pitching was decent, so we don't go get top quality free agent pitching to make our pitching even better, even if the pitching is available. Why would we? It was okay just last season. So we don't spend, even though we are an attractive spot for FA pitching, seeing as how we were winners.

Now, conversely, if we have seasons like the last two, then we finished last for a couple years after winning for a long time, so no FA pitching wants to come here now matter how much we offer.

Now, prior to 2010, if we finished 2nd, or 3rd, well, then we just didn't have the income of TF to compete with the big boys.

There is always a legitimate reason we don't get quality FA pitching.

USAFChief
12-14-2012, 09:08 AM
Isn't it "while the iron is hot?"

in any case, it seems to me JR is most likely done adding FA pitching. Correia IS the big FA splash. He'll wait around till after the new year and pick through the leftovers to add more "numbers" but actually spending what it takes to add a legitimate starter? No. Not gonna happen.

DAM DC Twins Fans
12-14-2012, 09:30 AM
I dont think Ryan planned to add much free agent pitching...Grienke and Sanchez were never coming here...the rest of the market is thin...Dempster is mediocre and age 35 (36 next season) why give him a multi-year contract. Haren to me was the choice but he would rather go to Nats and have a shot at a trophy. Marcum, Blanton and Jackson are all in their 30s, all up and down but overall mediocre. Giving them 3 year $30 million is a waste of money. None are that much better than DeVries, Deduno, etc. Best bet is to trade for a veteran pitcher like Royals did with Shields. Then hope that Meyer, Gibson or Hendricks can be a good Twins pitcher second half of 2013.

CDog
12-14-2012, 09:56 AM
Isn't it "while the iron is hot?"

in any case, it seems to me JR is most likely done adding FA pitching. Correia IS the big FA splash. He'll wait around till after the new year and pick through the leftovers to add more "numbers" but actually spending what it takes to add a legitimate starter? No. Not gonna happen.

I took "stove is hot" to be a play on words with the "iron" phrase combining with the Hot Stove League.

I'm still unwilling to believe they're done. And still realize it's more because of hope than anything else. And because it's going to really, really, really suck if it is the case...so I figure it's better to not be sad about it until it's actually true. Ugh.

USAFChief
12-14-2012, 10:00 AM
I took "stove is hot" to be a play on words with the "iron" phrase combining with the Hot Stove

ah...that makes sense. My apologies, Nick. Sometimes I'm not too quick on the uptake.

edavis0308
12-14-2012, 10:30 AM
I think the most depressing thing is that all of the guys that are starting to sign that are worth a damn, we arent even reported to have made an offer for, or even had interest in.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-14-2012, 10:40 AM
I think the most depressing thing is that all of the guys that are starting to sign that are worth a damn, we arent even reported to have made an offer for, or even had interest in.

Hey remember when it was said Ryan had offers out all over the place.....

Rosterman
12-14-2012, 10:46 AM
If they can kick tires a tad high on someone like Corriea, why not Saunders and Marcum...of even the other non-tenders: Lannan, JJ et al. Sadly, when you make an offer, you are stuck making the offer if someone immediately accepts.

Einstein
12-14-2012, 10:57 AM
I wouldn't get my hopes up, TR talks a good game (he has to though doesn't he?), but it seems pretty obvious to me that they've already punted on the 2013 season. They may still sign a Joe Saunders or Brett Myers but don't look for a top of the rotation starter. On this bright side, they will be drafting very highly in 2013 and 2014.

bphat1
12-14-2012, 11:01 AM
Nick, I'm wondering what you think the market would be for Marcum? Could we get him for, say 3/35M or is it looking more like a longer/more lucrative deal will be out there for him? And why are we not reading about the Twins making him an offer?

Einstein
12-14-2012, 11:06 AM
Terry Ryan on Nick Blackburn:

"I'm counting on him to compete for a job. There's no reason why he can't be in a situation where he's breaking camp with us. He's coming on a minor league invite, but that's a little deceiving. We've got a lot invested in him."

mike wants wins
12-14-2012, 11:07 AM
Because the twins largest FA signing ever is Willingham....and they have no intention of signing free agents that are expensive. That should he obvious by now.

greengoblinrulz
12-14-2012, 11:07 AM
but remember, there was no avenue for pitching that Terry Ryan didnt check....exept for those that wanted to get paid!!!

Nick Nelson
12-14-2012, 11:07 AM
I think the most depressing thing is that all of the guys that are starting to sign that are worth a damn, we arent even reported to have made an offer for, or even had interest in.

My thoughts exactly. I'll be satisfied to hear that Ryan at least made a serious run at some of these respectable names. I can't blame him if he gets outbid or the guy simply prefers to go elsewhere, but there's no excuse for this "kicked the tires but no formal offer" business. Just make a serious effort to land someone who can make your team better.

mike wants wins
12-14-2012, 11:09 AM
I don't care if Ryan makes offers. I care if the team is better. Butera tries to hit....

Nick Nelson
12-14-2012, 11:13 AM
Nick, I'm wondering what you think the market would be for Marcum? Could we get him for, say 3/35M or is it looking more like a longer/more lucrative deal will be out there for him? And why are we not reading about the Twins making him an offer?
I haven't heard much about him. I'm wondering if teams are worried about his elbow.

I'd have to think 3/35 would be plenty to get it done but in this market, who knows.

matthew0211
12-14-2012, 11:15 AM
From LEN3's Twitter account: https://twitter.com/LaVelleNeal/status/279038311006355456

LaVelle E. Neal III ‏@LaVelleNealHealth concerns. @Anderson9186 (http://twinsdaily.com/Anderson9186): @LaVelleNeal (http://twinsdaily.com/LaVelleNeal) Any insight on if the Twins have interest in Marcum? What is he looking for in years and $'s?

USAFChief
12-14-2012, 11:17 AM
My thoughts exactly. I'll be satisfied to hear that Ryan at least made a serious run at some of these respectable names. I can't blame him if he gets outbid or the guy simply prefers to go elsewhere, but there's no excuse for this "kicked the tires but no formal offer" business. Just make a serious effort to land someone who can make your team better.

What exactly is the difference between "serious run" and "kicked the tires," if in the end, the result is the same: "too expensive for our tastes."?

A serious effort to land someone who can make your team better means LANDING someone who can make your team better.

Anything less is all the same.

mike wants wins
12-14-2012, 11:23 AM
"not a good value".... "too many years"..."health concerns"...."too much money"....."not better than what we have"....did I miss anything?

chagen
12-14-2012, 11:24 AM
As I read around, it seems we are in a FA pitching loop. If we have a really good season, that means our pitching was decent, so we don't go get top quality free agent pitching to make our pitching even better, even if the pitching is available. Why would we? It was okay just last season. So we don't spend, even though we are an attractive spot for FA pitching, seeing as how we were winners.

Now, conversely, if we have seasons like the last two, then we finished last for a couple years after winning for a long time, so no FA pitching wants to come here now matter how much we offer.

Now, prior to 2010, if we finished 2nd, or 3rd, well, then we just didn't have the income of TF to compete with the big boys.

There is always a legitimate reason we don't get quality FA pitching.

Very well thought out can't disagree we are so bad that free agents don't want to sign hear!

chagen
12-14-2012, 11:26 AM
I agree until they actually sign a free agent from a different team for big money nobody can argue your point

Shane Wahl
12-14-2012, 11:27 AM
I don't know the reason why the health concerns are such a big deal for Marcum. I understand it being a concern, but certainly not a worry.

The Tigers made a mistake throwing that money at Sanchez. That might end up being a good thing for the Twins in the long run.

twinkiesfan11
12-14-2012, 11:29 AM
I agree until they actually sign a free agent from a different team for big money nobody can argue your point

Well they're saying Porcello is available as the result of this signing, the Tigers don't seem the type to be averse to trading within the division. There would seem to still be some upside in him, wonder what they'd want?

ThePuck
12-14-2012, 12:00 PM
Well they're saying Porcello is available as the result of this signing, the Tigers don't seem the type to be averse to trading within the division. There would seem to still be some upside in him, wonder what they'd want?

He's been better than Correia the last three years

JB_Iowa
12-14-2012, 12:31 PM
There is always a legitimate reason we don't get quality FA pitching.

Depends on how you define legitimate. The Twins always have an explanation -- believability of the explanation depends on the mindset of the listener.

Mauerpower
12-14-2012, 12:46 PM
Is there any way the twins could trade willingham or morneau for dickey? what all would the mets require in that deal?

edavis0308
12-14-2012, 12:47 PM
Is there any way the twins could trade willingham or morneau for dickey? what all would the mets require in that deal?

Gomez, Guerra, Humb............aw just nevermind.

ThePuck
12-14-2012, 12:53 PM
Depends on how you define legitimate. The Twins always have an explanation -- believability of the explanation depends on the mindset of the listener.

That post was sarcasm...if you read it again, you'll likely see that.

Based on what I've read around here, I have no doubt some believe all that post is true...or at least those who want to give the front office a pass on practically everything. That post basically is their justification for why we'll never get top notch FA pitching under any circumstance.

I'm guessing that maybe some of it is true...or, at the very least, has bits of truth in it along with other factors. That's just an opinion.

JB_Iowa
12-14-2012, 12:57 PM
That post was sarcasm...

Should have realized that based on the poster.

My main thought when reading Nick's article was that the Twins have again defined ironic (moronic, too?). Team that most needs starting pitching AND has the money to buy some and does little.

ThePuck
12-14-2012, 01:00 PM
Should have realized that based on the poster.




Based on what I've read around here, I have no doubt some believe all that post is true...or at least those who want to give the front office a pass on practically everything. That post basically is their justification for why we'll never get top notch FA pitching under any circumstance.

For me, I'm guessing that maybe some of it is true...or, at the very least, has bits of truth in it along with other factors. That's just an opinion.

ThePuck
12-14-2012, 01:07 PM
Should have realized that based on the poster.

My main thought when reading Nick's article was that the Twins have again defined ironic (moronic, too?). Team that most needs starting pitching AND has the money to buy some and does little.

I believe we miss out on FA pitching for a variety of reasons, based on each pitcher. IMO, some pitchers will just go to the highest bidder, no matter what. Now, the highest bidders aren't normally in last place, so it's ideal for the pitcher to accept the contract for two reasons...money and winning; however, if a pitcher is all about the money, a team in last place willing to spend should be able to land that pitcher too. I don't think it's hard to imagine thqat there are many players all about the money.

There are other players, say for example Vets who haven't ever been winners and are at a point in their career where they have less time left than they have played, that will discount more money to win. Some will value location (close to home, what have you).

There are more factors, but you get the point.

jmlease1
12-14-2012, 01:08 PM
I agree, Twins should have made a competitive offer for Dempster, would would have been a solid starter and innings eater until the next wave of pitchers is ready. Especially at 2 years $13M.

TheLeviathan
12-14-2012, 03:49 PM
I guess I'm afraid for what they'll strike next.

Thegrin
12-14-2012, 05:16 PM
This is the time to spend quality $$ on a quality player, but we already have the pitchers to fill out the pitching staff. A healthy Vance Worley will be our #1 starter and we have Diamond, and now Kevin Correia.

Liam Hendricks was our Twins Minor League pitcher of the year in 2011 and pitched very well in AAA last year. He will be a solid #3-4 starter with 10-15 wins and a 3.50 era, unless he is a head case. The Twins situation demands that we find out if he can fulfill his promise.

I can't think of an unsettled pitching staff that didn't have at least one pleasant surprise. Last year it was Diamond. I want to see what Deduno can do with a full year. Someone will shock us when given the chance. Who will it be this year? Vasquez? Duensing? Who knows?

Linus
12-14-2012, 09:11 PM
Oh my, this team needs a 36 year old free agent pitcher like it needs a hole in the head. If you want to complain about Brandon McCarthy or Sanchez go right ahead as they actually could help us when we need it. But please don't trot out this stuff over a guy that just is not a logical part of the Twins future.

Kwak
12-14-2012, 10:09 PM
Oh my, this team needs a 36 year old free agent pitcher like it needs a hole in the head. If you want to complain about Brandon McCarthy or Sanchez go right ahead as they actually could help us when we need it. But please don't trot out this stuff over a guy that just is not a logical part of the Twins future.
It isn't about somebody for the future--it's about somebody now! There is/was no reason that the Twins should not put an entertaining team on the field every game--it was promised. If they do trade more of the top players for rebuilding purposes--there had better be a very solid return of talent. We have already endured two disgusting seasons, if we are to endure another (even worse) season there has to be a quick turnaround. We paid for a new stadium so we could watch an interesting, competitive team (as was promised) so it is incumbent that the Twins management provide one--and not pull "a Marlins" on us!

LaBombo
12-14-2012, 10:29 PM
Terry Ryan on Nick Blackburn:

"I'm counting on him to compete for a job. There's no reason why he can't be in a situation where he's breaking camp with us. He's coming on a minor league invite, but that's a little deceiving. We've got a lot invested in him."

And now we know that either Ryan doesn't understand the concept of sunk cost, or more likely, that he believes the dopey fan base doesn't.

Picturing a 2013 rotation with both Correia and Blackburn reminds me of the old Norm Macdonald SNL one-liner about the music of Kenny G (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmamde_kenny-g-s-christmas-album_fun#.UMv9H3f2tcs).

LoganJones
12-14-2012, 11:20 PM
What Ryan means is there's no external reason where Blackburn couldn't show up healthy and motivated and impress everyone enough to grab a spot. If its more of the same nibbling and fidgeting with his hat, Rochester awaits.

Shane Wahl
12-15-2012, 10:21 AM
If they are serious about giving Blackburn a chance, why waste another $4.5 million this year?