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View Full Version : Rays/Royals Blockbuster deal SUN



greengoblinrulz
12-09-2012, 10:43 PM
James Shields & Wade Davis got to KC for Will Myers, Jake Orodozzi & Mike Montgomery.
Gotta be good to have a GM willing to take a chance & believe in their moves

PseudoSABR
12-09-2012, 10:46 PM
If Davis doesn't start, I don't really like this deal for the Royals. But it's good to see them actually going for it.

mike wants wins
12-09-2012, 10:50 PM
Awful trade. One of the top prospects in the game, a guy that looks like a future #3 starter, and stuff, for a number 2 starter you only have for two more years, and a reliever/possible starter. Not a fan. That's like Sano and Gibson and two more throw ins...no way I do that.

I would not have even done Meyers for Shields straight up. Mind blowing.

I can't imagine what rany is typing....

mike wants wins
12-09-2012, 10:51 PM
Ah, he typed "this sucks"....

TheLeviathan
12-09-2012, 10:53 PM
James Shields & Wade Davis got to KC for Will Myers, Jake Orodozzi & Mike Montgomery.
Gotta be good to have a GM willing to take a chance & believe in their moves

Yeah, I'm sure Royals fans thank their deity daily for Dayton Moore.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-09-2012, 10:56 PM
LOL and we thought we could have traded Span+garbage for Shields.

The Royals gave up ALOT. But I give em credit for going for it all, it seems like the Royals have been in constant rebuild mode over the past 15 years, so at some point you gotta say "**** it" and go for it. I wonder if they try to extend Shields at some point this year.

Myers obviously is the key to this trade but I am a bit suprised the Royals let Orgorizzi go as well. I always thought he was basically a cant miss #3 or so in the majors. To be honest I have never been that impressed with Montgomery, he has had two pretty terrible years at AAA in a row now.

Wade Davis will definitely start, he is nothing special but I can see him being a decent #3/#4 for the Royals at the very least, and he has a pretty awesome contract for them to deal with.

Good trade for both teams, Myers is a stud but there is no guarantee that he dominates in the majors.

Erock
12-09-2012, 10:56 PM
Oh my god. This is a pretty terrible deal for the Royals. If you asked me if I would give up Hicks, Gibson and Hendriks for comparisons sake I would have gave you a big old resounding "NO." and Myers is a significantly better prospect than Hicks and Ordorizzi might have more upside and is younger than Gibson. They just gave up the future for 2 years of a good #2 starter and a good reliver/#4 starter.

greengoblinrulz
12-09-2012, 10:57 PM
KC is goin for it.
An ace innings eating horse for 2 more years & a draft pick if/when he leaves.
No guarrantee on Myers/Orodozzi.....could turn out to be as productive as Hosmer/Moose
Well worth it IMO for KC

Like it just as well for TB
Severely limited financially....deal 10m for 3 players who'll make an impact. Rays already have their innings eating horse for 3 more yrs.

jjswol
12-09-2012, 11:00 PM
Good trade for both teams. KC is going to be an interesting team to watch. I like the deal.

minn55441
12-09-2012, 11:02 PM
The royals just got a lot better. They have acquired some pitching this off season, without spending a ton of money. They believe in their core group of position players, so no is the time to add pitching that can preform immediately.

They are giving up a lot in both Meyers and Orodozzi, but if they win and make the playoffs...

glunn
12-09-2012, 11:05 PM
James Shields & Wade Davis got to KC for Will Myers, Jake Orodozzi & Mike Montgomery.
Gotta be good to have a GM willing to take a chance & believe in their moves

It seems to me that the trades of Span and Revere are somewhat similar -- trading proven veterans for high level prospects. I also think that the Royals just got a lot better, at least for the next few years.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-09-2012, 11:05 PM
Awful trade. One of the top prospects in the game, a guy that looks like a future #3 starter, and stuff, for a number 2 starter you only have for two more years, and a reliever/possible starter. Not a fan. That's like Sano and Gibson and two more throw ins...no way I do that.

I would not have even done Meyers for Shields straight up. Mind blowing.

I can't imagine what rany is typing....

We have been over this, Shields isn't exactly your common #2. The guy has averaged 222 IP each season over the last 6, and of those 6 seasons he has 4 very good ones (close to ACE), 1 meh one, and one bad(read:unlucky) one all in the toughest division in baseball. He's not in the elite class of Ace's with Verlander/Kershaw/King Felix/Sabathia etc but one could make the argument that he is basically just as much of an "ace" as a guy like Grienke.

greengoblinrulz
12-09-2012, 11:15 PM
Awful trade. One of the top prospects in the game, a guy that looks like a future #3 starter, and stuff, for a number 2 starter you only have for two more years, and a reliever/possible starter. Not a fan. That's like Sano and Gibson and two more throw ins...no way I do that.

I would not have even done Meyers for Shields straight up. Mind blowing.

I can't imagine what rany is typing....

We have been over this, Shields isn't exactly your common #2. The guy has averaged 222 IP each season over the last 6, and of those 6 seasons he has 4 very good ones (close to ACE), 1 meh one, and one bad(read:unlucky) one all in the toughest division in baseball. He's not in the elite class of Ace's with Verlander/Kershaw/King Felix/Sabathia etc but one could make the argument that he is basically just as much of an "ace" as a guy like Grienke.

Agree 100%.....personally dont call him an ace but he's everything you'ld want from one & I dont argue with people who do call him an ace.
HUGE fan of his

gunnarthor
12-09-2012, 11:23 PM
Horrible trade for KC. Can't imagine they couldn't have gotten better pitchers for Myers. Seattle or Arizona had pitching and needed a bat. Lose their best hitting and pitching prospect and more? Wow. Horrible deal.

Riverbrian
12-09-2012, 11:25 PM
Wow... Thats quite the trade... The Royals just gave up 3 top 30 prospects. There used to be a time... When one top 30 prospect would fetch something Like Shields and Davis.

Someone should pass a note to Terry Ryan... The note should say... "Don't trade with the Rays ever".

Still the trade could do great things for KC... Their rotation is better... Those young hitters should keep getting better... The Tigers better not be too cocky.

johnnydakota
12-09-2012, 11:30 PM
me thinks the twins are between a rock and a wet spot ...
so drop the bomb and totally rebuild,adios joe justin and ham

greengoblinrulz
12-09-2012, 11:38 PM
Wow... Thats quite the trade... The Royals just gave up 3 top 30 prospects. There used to be a time... When one top 30 prospect would fetch something Like Shields and Davis.

Someone should pass a note to Terry Ryan... The note should say... "Don't trade with the Rays ever".

Still the trade could do great things for KC... Their rotation is better... Those young hitters should keep getting better... The Tigers better not be too cocky.
Montgomery is no longer a top prospect.
Orodozzi is no bigger a prospect than what Wade Davis was when he debuted.
That's the problem with dealing or recieving prospects....dont know how players will turn out. Look at the Johan trade.....Each of the 4 players recieved coulda been percieved as a top prospect.
Sometimes its better to take the 'sure' thing

nicksaviking
12-09-2012, 11:38 PM
I might like it better if my GM hadn't already over-valued Ervin Santana and Jeremy Guthrie. If those guys are your number two and three arms, your rotation isn't very impressive.

notoriousgod71
12-09-2012, 11:48 PM
9 times out of 10 I'd take the established player over the prospect. I have no problem with this deal from KC's point. Eventually you have to make a move to try and put you over the top. Kudos to the Royals for finally going for it.

Riverbrian
12-09-2012, 11:51 PM
Wow... Thats quite the trade... The Royals just gave up 3 top 30 prospects. There used to be a time... When one top 30 prospect would fetch something Like Shields and Davis.

Someone should pass a note to Terry Ryan... The note should say... "Don't trade with the Rays ever".

Still the trade could do great things for KC... Their rotation is better... Those young hitters should keep getting better... The Tigers better not be too cocky.
Montgomery is no longer a top prospect.
Orodozzi is no bigger a prospect than what Wade Davis was when he debuted.
That's the problem with dealing or recieving prospects....dont know how players will turn out. Look at the Johan trade.....Each of the 4 players recieved coulda been percieved as a top prospect.
Sometimes its better to take the 'sure' thing

Don't know if I agree with you about the Johan Trade... but believe me... I agree about prospects not always panning out... But I also disagree about Shields and Davis being sure things as well. So in the end... A trade is a trade...

The thing that leaps to mind is... the Rays have done it again... They pgrabbed a haul from the Cubs for Garza and now the Royals.

I agree... Montgomery has fallen off... He would be our Benson... Still has value in my opinion.

I can see this working out for the Royals... But I can see this really working out for the Rays. Maybe it's a deal that ends up being good for both clubs.

gunnarthor
12-10-2012, 12:17 AM
I wonder if KC knows (or thinks it knows) something about Myers that makes them think he won't be good at the next level? Seems strange to move a guy who has been dominating the minors and someone you've been feeding to your fan base as part of your rebuilding, even for Shields.

joeboo_22
12-10-2012, 12:17 AM
I agree with the don't trade with the Rays, they haven't been on the losing end of a trade for a while.

While saying that, I wouldn't mind to have Terry Ryan make a phone call to the Rays about Willingham as they could use a big bat in their lineup. They could send a ready #3 starter and middle infielder and then a lower level B prospect.

At the same time I don't know if this deal is terrible for the Royals, they have to at least look like they are trying one of these years. You can't have the top farm system in baseball every year and expect the fans to think that is successful when you are below .500

greengoblinrulz
12-10-2012, 12:25 AM
Wow... Thats quite the trade... The Royals just gave up 3 top 30 prospects. There used to be a time... When one top 30 prospect would fetch something Like Shields and Davis.

Someone should pass a note to Terry Ryan... The note should say... "Don't trade with the Rays ever".

Still the trade could do great things for KC... Their rotation is better... Those young hitters should keep getting better... The Tigers better not be too cocky.
Montgomery is no longer a top prospect.
Orodozzi is no bigger a prospect than what Wade Davis was when he debuted.
That's the problem with dealing or recieving prospects....dont know how players will turn out. Look at the Johan trade.....Each of the 4 players recieved coulda been percieved as a top prospect.
Sometimes its better to take the 'sure' thing

Don't know if I agree with you about the Johan Trade... but believe me... I agree about prospects not always panning out... But I also disagree about Shields and Davis being sure things as well. So in the end... A trade is a trade...

The thing that leaps to mind is... the Rays have done it again... They pgrabbed a haul from the Cubs for Garza and now the Royals.

I agree... Montgomery has fallen off... He would be our Benson... Still has value in my opinion.

I can see this working out for the Royals... But I can see this really working out for the Rays. Maybe it's a deal that ends up being good for both clubs.
I was also gonna compare Montgomery to our version of Benson.........there have also been cant miss hitting prospect in Jesus Montero, Dustin Ackley, Domnic Brown, KC's own Mostakas/Hosmer , Dee Gordon etc the past few years. KC has waited 25yrs for a winner & waiting another 5 yrs for Myers/Orodozzi etc woulda been agonizing. They still have OF prospects like Bubba Starling waiting.

greengoblinrulz
12-10-2012, 12:27 AM
I might like it better if my GM hadn't already over-valued Ervin Santana and Jeremy Guthrie. If those guys are your number two and three arms, your rotation isn't very impressive.

I dont see KC overvalueing either, they did just overpay for them....something we're dying for TRyan to try ONCE. Both have been 200IP solid mid rotation starters often but getting Shields puts them back into their places.

Shane Wahl
12-10-2012, 12:34 AM
The Royals are just a mess out there. Pretty surprised that they would do this.

Top Gun
12-10-2012, 12:50 AM
Great trade for both teams, and there is still a player to be named.

righty8383
12-10-2012, 12:53 AM
I would like to give credit to KC for going for it, but I can't. They just grossly overpaid for a couple solid arms that will not likely be enough for them to contend for the playoffs. Credit the Rays for another great move, or as Keith Law puts it, "a heist".

greengoblinrulz
12-10-2012, 12:56 AM
Royals everyday lineup is filled with 6-7 young everyday starters who are stil ascending. They were in a situation were they could take the chance. Twins arent in the same situation with their everyday guys to do a similar deal (Sano/Gibson for ex).
Will Myers is the best spectacular prospect in KC since Mike Mostakas and before that Eric Hosmer and before that Alex Gordon....etc. While all 3 are good to above average.....eventually its worth the shot to add a veteran all star at a position that desparately needed it.
While trying to go for it....think people forget DET only won the division with 87wins....division is up for the taking

On Tampa's side...when you continually develop or acquire top notch young pitching....you can easily flip them for a nice ransom. Hopefully MN gets deep enough to be able to do that.

Top Gun
12-10-2012, 01:19 AM
Shields will be a 20 game winner, The Twins just plain suck, they won't spend the money.

raindog
12-10-2012, 02:21 AM
WOW. More people defending this trade than bashing it. I..don't know what to say. Shields is very good pitcher, but he doesn't turn a mediocre staff into a good one by himself. Even Royals fans hate this trade. Almost universally:
Royals and Rays OVER THE Brink (Updated) - Royals Review (http://www.royalsreview.com/2012/12/9/3749306/royals-and-rays-on-the-brink)

If you guys want Terry Ryan to do something like this, you'll never be happy. Because Terry Ryan isn't a complete idiot.

beckmt
12-10-2012, 05:21 AM
This trade has been labeled a heist for Tampa Bay and probably is. Kansas City had to become relivant before they start losing the young talent they have developed, and their pitching to put it mildly sucked. It will be interesting to see if Detroit now makes a move. Kansas City at least reconized where they were and took a chance(too big for me). Twins are about 3 years from where KC is now. Terry Ryan is one the right path, you win with pitching, but your club has to be good enough for the pitching to make a difference. Twins have 3 - 4 very good ballplayers to stars, the rest of the onfield team is below average. 2013 will probably not be the best of years, but could lay the foundation for very good teams from 2015 on.

one_eyed_jack
12-10-2012, 06:50 AM
Shields will be a 20 game winner, The Twins just plain suck, they won't spend the money.


A 20-game winner, huh? So even though he's never had more than 16 playing for an annual playoff contender, you think he'll be able to beat that by 4 by going to a team that hasn't been relevant in 20 years?

one_eyed_jack
12-10-2012, 06:59 AM
When you have a trade this big between a team that is known for consistently doing smart things and a team that is known for consistently doing dumb things, and the latter is clearly making the move out of desperation, it's hard not to assume they got fleeced.

It's fascinating to see praise heaped on the Royals for this trade. If Ryan had offered up a package centered around Sano and Gibson for Shields and Davis, I doubt you'd see the same reaction.

I understand what the Royals are trying to do here. They've been the "Team of the Future" for a long time now. With the AL Central as weak as it is, it shouldn't take much to compete. Getting Shields may even put them #2 behind Detroit on paper.

But a move like this only makes sense if you're a James Shields away from being a serious contender to win it all. The Royals were not even close to that.

Brandon
12-10-2012, 07:05 AM
Kansas City now has 6 starters available to pitch next season. I wonder if they try Hochevar out of the pen to see how he does there. This trade only works for the Royals if they go out and finish the retooling of their team and just go for it the next 2 years. It will also help if they resign Shields. As far as talent lost vs talent gained they lost that trade but they now have enough starting pitching to be competetive.

What other holes do they have in their team? I haven't looked at their roster in so long.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
12-10-2012, 07:09 AM
Well, this isn't good for the Twins. Truth be told, I prefer the Bruce Chen, Jonathan Sanchez pitcher types Kansas City was using....

The Rays got a helluva deal for a pitcher that's getting a huge, long term contract in two years.

Brock Beauchamp
12-10-2012, 07:20 AM
I like this trade for the Twins. The Royals just got a lot worse in the longterm in an attempt to go "all in" while the Twins are in a state of rebuilding.

At some point, the Royals needed to do this but I'm really skeptical that now was the time. The Royals lost 90 games last season. They're not on the cusp of winning, they were a really bad team last year. It seems to me that it would have been more prudent to wait until 2013 played out and see if your minor leaguers improved and became a solid group of hitters. Then you go after the "final pieces" to build a contender. You don't do it when 3/4 of your roster is still a question mark.

ScottyB
12-10-2012, 08:09 AM
KC has always been impatient. They keep trading away guys like Beltran and Damon, etc. Shields and Davis are pretty good, this should solidify them for 3rd place for a while, with a shot for 2nd place in the Central. MLB now rates Meyers, Odorizzi, Montgomery and Leonard as TB's #1, #2, #7 and #20 prospects, and the Rays were deep before the trade.

kirbyelway
12-10-2012, 08:12 AM
James Shields & Wade Davis got to KC for Will Myers, Jake Orodozzi & Mike Montgomery.
Gotta be good to have a GM willing to take a chance & believe in their moves

Thank God we do not have a GM like that. That is a terrible trade for the Royals. Shields is signed for 2 yrs and is 32 yrs old and Wade Davis is a 4 or 5 guy if you are lucky. You gave up your 2 best prospects for that, what a joke. That is why the Royals are terrible every year and the Rays are one of the best run franchises in baseball.

drivlikejehu
12-10-2012, 08:22 AM
The Royals just destroyed themselves. An unbelievably bad trade, one of the worst in recent memory. The Royals have one good outfielder, and they trade one of, if not the #1 OF prospect in baseball? Who is almost MLB ready? Myers by himself would be too much for Shields... to also throw in a quality pitching prospect and a couple lesser prospects is comical.

He's clueless in general, but Jim Bowden did point out that Moore's contract ends in 2014, so this move could potentially let Moore keep his job. That's the only real justification for the trade I can imagine. But even so, the Royals aren't very good. Now they have one good starter instead of zero. They still have no CF, RF, or 2B, and aren't quite sure what to expect from 3B, 1B, and C. Adding Shields does make them a solid favorite for 3rd place in the horrific AL Central, but that's it.

old nurse
12-10-2012, 08:50 AM
LOL and we thought we could have traded Span+garbage for Shields.

.

Do you use "we" to cover your embarrassment at thinking that thought? I was not replied to kingly when I said no way to that thought.

TopGunn#22
12-10-2012, 08:52 AM
The Royals have an excellent young catcher in Salvador Perez, so they're O.K. behind the plate. In the short term, K.C. will be better and if some of their young hitters take off next year they could be competitive. However, if they don't pony up the money and sign Shields to an extension this will be a disaster for them. Myers might end up being a bust (I doubt it) and he's just the kind of young hitter the Rays need to build around with Longoria with all that good young pitching they have. On a scale of 1 to 100, the Rays get a 70 and the Royals a 30.

mk
12-10-2012, 08:54 AM
Great trade for the Twins. By the time the Twins are relevant, Shields will be gone but Myers will still be 5 years away from free agency, but playing in the East.

gmarais66
12-10-2012, 09:12 AM
I think the Rays took the Royals to the cleaners. Shields is good, but not worth that price. And let's not forget, the Royals had Greinke and how far did he take them?

Brandon
12-10-2012, 09:17 AM
This trade gives the Royals 6 starting pithers for next season. They look to have a good bullpen and decent offense. The could use a RF and they did overpay on this trade but it does move them up to contender status which is where you want your club to be. The Royals still have prospects and if they draft smart next year are in position to add as they should have a top 10 pick. I would have rather found a way to sign Sanchez to the 6 year 90 million and trade Butler or someone making 7 million and keep the prospects, but I am not the GM.

mike wants wins
12-10-2012, 10:07 AM
In fairness, I do like the concept of going for it. I just did not like this version much. If it works in the next two years, even if Meyers is great, it was worth it. I just do not think the odds are good it will work.

savvyspy
12-10-2012, 10:32 AM
I totally disagree. The Royals have a ton of young talent, not just in the minors but on the major league roster too. Davis is under team control until 2017 and Shields through 2014. They gave up a lot but people calling Shields a #2 haven't seen the Royals and Twins pitch in the last 3 years. Shields is only a #2 on one of the most stocked rotations in the league. Shields is probably the 2nd best starter in the division behind Verlander and is LIGHT YEARS from anything the Twins will trot out in the foreseeable future. At some point people need to realize the goal of the game is to win titles. What point do the Royals wait to contend? They've built their prospects up and they are using those assets to step up and contend. That's the point. Not tell your fans you are going to contend and sign Jason Marquis every year.

I hope the Twins do the same thing. Build up their minor league stable and graduate some to the majors but use others to make deals to make a run. They are already doing the first part by rebuilding their minor league talent.

gunnarthor
12-10-2012, 10:33 AM
I read that the A's turned down a Myers for Anderson deal. That's stunning. Maybe Myers is really overvalued by those outside baseball. Anderson is a good pitcher but he missed nearly all of last year. Odorzzi has a fip over 4.00 in AA and AAA. Montgomery fell completely apart last year. And Shields and Davis are known quantities. I still don't like the trade for the Royals but it makes more sense with a little more thought.

And this is a good time to try and win the central. Tigers aren't that good, especially if they don't resign Sanchez. Twins have a real nice system setting up a solid 2014-15 team. There is a window here.

drivlikejehu
12-10-2012, 11:11 AM
The Royals won 72 games last year. Yes, Shields is a #1 starter. But the Royals don't have a #2 or #3 starter... all their other guys are back of rotation types. Their position players were 10th in the AL in WAR last year (thanks to defense- they were terrible offensively).

Now, if they somehow add multiple quality players, through free agency or more trades, that would be different (though still unwise). But it's hilarious to see Twins fans who like this for KC when, if the Twins made the same deal by sending Arcia, Gibson, Hendriks, and Harrison to the Rays, Twins fans would be having an epic meltdown.

gunnarthor
12-10-2012, 11:25 AM
The Royals won 72 games last year. Yes, Shields is a #1 starter. But the Royals don't have a #2 or #3 starter... all their other guys are back of rotation types. Their position players were 10th in the AL in WAR last year (thanks to defense- they were terrible offensively).

Now, if they somehow add multiple quality players, through free agency or more trades, that would be different (though still unwise). But it's hilarious to see Twins fans who like this for KC when, if the Twins made the same deal by sending Arcia, Gibson, Hendriks, and Harrison to the Rays, Twins fans would be having an epic meltdown.

I think the corresponding trade from a Twins perspective would have been Sano (Myers), May (Odozzri), Benson (Montgomery) and Kepler (last guy).

I'm not trying to argue KC got the better deal. But I'm not sure it's as one sided as I originally thought. If KC is right on Myers, they did ok.

Cost of pitching is insane right now. We gave up two starting center fielders (under 8 years of team control) for one mid rotation guy and two prospects. Grienke is getting 24m/yr. Dempster is turning down 24m. Sanchez is insulted by 4/48. Nats and Reds gave up tons for Gio Gonzalez and Mat Latos. Oakland turned down Myers for Anderson. Baker got 5.5 guaranteed coming off TJ surgery. Someone will give Liriano more than that.

Saul Goodman
12-10-2012, 11:45 AM
Shockingly, Fangraphs hates the trade from the Royals' perspective.
Royals Mortgage Future To Be Mediocre In 2013 | FanGraphs Baseball (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/royals-mortgage-future-to-be-mediocre-in-2013/)

jcphitman
12-10-2012, 11:53 AM
This is a fun trade to discuss. I think if the Twins went ahead and traded for Shields, we'd have questioned what message they are trying to send. First they trade two MLB ready CF's for pitching. Then they aquire more pitching and sell off prospects for it. It wouldn't have made much sense. We need our hitting prospects to go with our pitching prospects for 14-15 and beyond.

Did the Royals over-pay? A lot of the majority feels like they did. However, if I were them, I'd of done the same. I can't imagine the frusturation Royals fans face on an annual basis. They are always promised a better tomorrow, but it never comes. Eventually, you need to do something. I went to KC in 2011 towards the end of the year to see the Twins play the Royals. Their stadium was awesome and they had decent fans. The employees there was top notch. Overall, a very good experience. Those fans deserve something to cheer about. I live in Milwaukee, so I got to see a pretty good dose of Net Yost (Royals manager). He's been with them for a while now and deserves a chance to win.

IDK if this will get the Royals over the hump, but they also might not be done. Don't rule them out for signing a big bat or another pitcher (maybe bullpen help)? The Rays got a great deal and will continue to be set up for both the present and the future.

Glad the Twins passed on the deal ... we don't need Shelds in our current model.

kab21
12-10-2012, 12:00 PM
Who knows? Maybe the Royals click next season but I think they will regret this. The problem is that they just haven't been able to even get their pitching prospects to the majors to disappoint. their offensive core weren't on fire last year but they have a lot of talent in the majors (aside from Frenchy). Gordon, Butler, Hosmer, Mous, Alcides, Perez and Cain is a pretty solid core that will be around for awhile. If these hitters make progress and they find a few guys (Ervin, Davis, Duffy, Paulino) that can be solid MOR starters they could make a big jump next year. More likely this will be the defining trade that ends Moore's run as a GM similar to Bavasi's Bedard deal.

savvyspy
12-10-2012, 12:11 PM
The Royals won 72 games last year. Yes, Shields is a #1 starter. But the Royals don't have a #2 or #3 starter... all their other guys are back of rotation types. Their position players were 10th in the AL in WAR last year (thanks to defense- they were terrible offensively).

Now, if they somehow add multiple quality players, through free agency or more trades, that would be different (though still unwise). But it's hilarious to see Twins fans who like this for KC when, if the Twins made the same deal by sending Arcia, Gibson, Hendriks, and Harrison to the Rays, Twins fans would be having an epic meltdown.

It depends. If you could get Shields to sign an extention he's easily worth Arcia and Gibson. Hendriks will never be anything but roster filler at the major league level. Arcia, Gibson, & Harrison for Davis and Shields is a decent trade. Shields would easily be the Twins best Pitcher since Santana and Davis is AT WORST our 3rd best starter or a proven reliever. I think people are a little too high on Gibson. He's a solid pitcher but he's already had Tommy John and the Twins organization is probably the worst training staff in the majors so its not like he's guaranteed to come back as strong as before or without issues.

Basically if the Twins could land Shields without giving up a Top 3 prospect (Hicks, Sano, or Buxton) then they should make that deal every day if they are condending while Shilds is under contract. The Royals are a year or two closer to contention so I think they made the right deal. This deal would only help MN if they could lock up Shields on a longer term deal. If so, I find it hard to think they shouldn't pursue this type of proven starter.

drivlikejehu
12-10-2012, 12:16 PM
I think the corresponding trade from a Twins perspective would have been Sano (Myers), May (Odozzri), Benson (Montgomery) and Kepler (last guy).

I'm not trying to argue KC got the better deal. But I'm not sure it's as one sided as I originally thought. If KC is right on Myers, they did ok.

Cost of pitching is insane right now. We gave up two starting center fielders (under 8 years of team control) for one mid rotation guy and two prospects. Grienke is getting 24m/yr. Dempster is turning down 24m. Sanchez is insulted by 4/48. Nats and Reds gave up tons for Gio Gonzalez and Mat Latos. Oakland turned down Myers for Anderson. Baker got 5.5 guaranteed coming off TJ surgery. Someone will give Liriano more than that.

Well I was trying to compensate for the fact that TB got guys pretty close to the Majors, whereas Sano isn't. The point is just that it was an insane amount to give up, and the guys they got back aren't free either.

Before the trade, the Royals had about $54.5 million committed, not counting the pre-arb guys. If they are really so set on winning, why not just sign Anibal Sanchez and Edwin Jackson? The combined cost would be maybe $10-15 million more than Shields/Davis, but they also could upgrade RF by replacing Francoeur (one of the worst players in MLB last year) with Myers, and have Odorizzi for pitching depth in AAA. They could use some non-elite prospects to get a third starter and have the makings of a real rotation, not Shields and then a bunch of garbage.

savvyspy
12-10-2012, 12:26 PM
Wade Davis nothing special?? Find me a Twin within 2 years of the majors with a 11+ Ks per 9. He a very very solid major league proven arm.

Riverbrian
12-10-2012, 01:15 PM
The Royals played .500 ball in August and September of last year. This was done with no pitching at all. They are starting to hit...

The acquisition of pitching by the Royals should not be discounted. I think they gave up too much... Most everyone does but the upgrade on the pitching staff will be huge if they work out.

The Rays easily won the trade in my mind but the Royals improved for 2013 at the same time... The Twins won't like playing them next year.

joeboo_22
12-10-2012, 02:18 PM
I've been reading twitter and a few write ups and though the baseball guys don't like it, but I've seen scouts who say its fair. Meyers has had some injury issues, and though I'd hesitate to say any of the Royals top prospects of the past 5-7 years have been bust, but none of them have really amounted to the hype, so with this the Royals are saying hey, we are going to try to win. If they win 85 games, get some people to show up, maybe they make a trade at the dead line, and show that they are going for it. It is the right move for them.

Section234HHHMet
12-10-2012, 03:02 PM
I'm glad to have Terry Ryan instead of Dayton Moore (Royals GM).
The Royals just traded three top prospects for a reliever and a mid level starter. Will Myers is the type of prospect people HOPE that Miguel Sano might someday become. No complaints from this Twins fan. I'm happy with the trade Terry Ryan made last week with Philadelphia. What the Royals did yesterday would be like if the Twins had traded Hicks, Gibson, and Sano for Vance Worley and Trevor May. Giving up Ben Revere, that seems fine compared to the Royals move.
The Royals trade yesterday is more similar to the time Billy Smith got swindled by the Nats in the Wilson Ramos-Matt Capps deal.

Twins Twerp
12-10-2012, 03:42 PM
me thinks the twins are between a rock and a wet spot ...
so drop the bomb and totally rebuild,adios joe justin and ham

Absolutely. Except for Joe. The Royals, in my opinion, just got much better. I have read alot of things that said they just got a 3-4 win player and possibly a 1-2 win player, therefore they only added 5 wins from last years team in this deal. Can the WAR stat be any dumber than it already is? I think this does wonders for your team. Shields will be a much better pitcher than they had last year. Every 5 days the team will have an even better chance to win, not to mention the bullpen will get more rest...a drickle down effect if you will. I think the Royals will be legit this year with this deal and the others yet to come (Still could sign another mid-tier free agent). We needs to blow this thing up big time. Hold on to Mornie and Hammer until the all-star break and see what you can get. A right handed and left handed powerbat should get a pretty big hall before the allstar break. The draft should bring another top-level talent into the system (probably a pitcher, but a MI wouldn't be terrible)...the team is going to lose another 100 games next year so that will also bring another top draft pick. We should be loading the system so that by 2016 WE could be like the Rays and turn our guys into more stellar prospects.

I like the trade for both teams as the Royals will be back for the first time since George Brett was roaming the corners (Joe Mauer could be our Gerge Brett at 1st, just saying). You keep Mauer around for the duration of the contract to keep people in the seats. Also, how sneaky are those Rays. They are the piranhas. I'm sure they could have used Sheilds this year but they got back a future all-star who will behind a perrenial MVP candidate for the next 6-7 years.

The Rays are what we should aim for. They are the smartest/luckiest team in baseball. Sure, Tim Beckam didn't work out but the majority of their moves do. I bet they wait until July to bring Myers up to get another year of service from him. The savvyness is off the charts.

notoriousgod71
12-10-2012, 06:07 PM
I'm glad to have Terry Ryan instead of Dayton Moore (Royals GM).
The Royals just traded three top prospects for a reliever and a mid level starter. Will Myers is the type of prospect people HOPE that Miguel Sano might someday become. No complaints from this Twins fan. I'm happy with the trade Terry Ryan made last week with Philadelphia. What the Royals did yesterday would be like if the Twins had traded Hicks, Gibson, and Sano for Vance Worley and Trevor May. Giving up Ben Revere, that seems fine compared to the Royals move.
The Royals trade yesterday is more similar to the time Billy Smith got swindled by the Nats in the Wilson Ramos-Matt Capps deal.

No, it wouldn't because Shields is exponentially better than Worley and May.

diehardtwinsfan
12-17-2012, 08:09 PM
Im not sure how anyone can say this was good for the Royals. They have a good young core of hitters, but will these pitchers plus improvements from the core yield them 18 wins? Honestly, if they wanted to pay Shields what they paid him, they could have signed Sanchez or Jackson and traded a much lesser prospect tthe Rays for the other pitcher...

The moral of the store is this: trade with Dayton Moore... wonder if he'd trade some minor league pitching for Correia.

johnnydakota
12-17-2012, 08:34 PM
James Shields & Wade Davis got to KC for Will Myers, Jake Orodozzi & Mike Montgomery.
Gotta be good to have a GM willing to take a chance & believe in their movesD
Did you notice ,that after the trade there g.m. didnt even start second guessing himself or throw the new players under the bus?