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View Full Version : Article: Ben Revere Traded to Philly for RHP Vance Worley & Top Pitching Prospect



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robbie111
12-06-2012, 09:10 PM
Any chance they could pry Zack Cozart and Robert Stephenson or Kyle Lotzkar away from the Reds? Would Carroll and Willingham get that done?

jokin
12-06-2012, 09:16 PM
The distance between Worley and PJ Waters (or whomever he's replacing in the rotation) is greater than the distance between Revere and Mastroianni/Benson/Hicks. Our pitching is that gawdawful.

Worley >>>>> Waters ; Revere >> Mastro

This trade makes the Twins better in 2013 and beyond.

Unfortunately, you have to factor the trade into the totality of all the moves thus far, the loss of Span, plus Revere, is crushing to the top of the lineup and to the OF defense. Again, Worley pitches one in five games, Span and Revere played virtually every day of the week.

And when he pitches, Worley, like any starter, has about as much power to affect the outcome of the game as the other 9 guys combined. Revere was a fine ballplayer, but any organization that considers the loss of a .330-ish OBP from the top of a lineup "crushing" isn't going anywhere anyway. Given that the Twins entered the offseason with a 2013 rotation with only one certain member, and one with only one year in the majors to boot, it seems to me like they've had their doubts about contending in 2013 before the winter meetings even started.

A quick and dirty WAR comparison says Revere/Deduno = Mastro/Worley in 2012, with Mastro playing part time and Worley missing a quarter of the season. I think they have a good chance to equal or exceed what Revere and Deduno might have done/ will do for the Twins in 2013.

But you omitted the part of my comment about the crushing blow being the loss of Span and Revere. I'm confident in my belief that Mastro is not going to replace that loss and Revere's WAR will rise as a CF while Deduno getting a WAR rating close to the value of Worley only shows how imperfect WAR is as a tool.

Quick check of BR oWAR combined w/ BR pitching WAR shows Revere/Deduno @ 2.3 and Mastro/Worley @ 1.1, quite different than Fangraphs WAR ratings.

kab21
12-06-2012, 09:19 PM
The only chance is by trading Willingham. I'm not a fan of Lotzkar and I doubt Cozart is available but I think someone out of the Stephenson/Corcino/Cingrani could be available for Willingham if the Reds choose the trade route. I see them signing Ludwick though.

jokin
12-06-2012, 09:30 PM
I think the Twins must be rolling with either Mastro or Hicks because there is no CF out there that they could possibly sign.

They can not possibly believe Mastro can be a full-timer, even in a transitional season, can they?

I don't believe they do, indications are that at best he's some sort of stop-gap for Hicks, Benson or Arcia until May or June.

This has probably been stated elsewhere, but Ryan gave his full endorsement to Benson to make a play for the job, so they're likely going to hold back Hicks until at least June- so The Maestro and Benson it is!

glunn
12-06-2012, 11:05 PM
I was really looking forward to watching Revere play CF in 2013, but it seems to me that this was a good trade for the Twins.

ScottyB
12-06-2012, 11:31 PM
All to often during the Pohlad era have the Twins hoarded players because they may be good someday only to lose them when they run out of options and turn out to not be as good when they are closer to the big leagues. Finally TR took his greatest assets, OF - specifically CF and traded for his deficiencies. The Twins have been behind the curve with power pitchers. These trades and the last draft have finally addressed those needs. Even if our kiddie OF'ers aren't quite ready, Worley, May and Meyer give the Twins a fighting chance. There still is a long way to go, but with an infield of Parmelee, Rosario, Santana, and Sano; and an outfield of Hicks, Arcia, Kepler and Buxton not that far off, there is much hope. And defense in the infield is not as much of a problem when you have pitchers that strike out guys in bunches.

Nothing's set in stone at this point, and obviously some of the prospects could be busts, but at least there's light at the end of the tunnel. The Twins are finally using their assets properly.

SwainZag
12-06-2012, 11:32 PM
I was really looking forward to watching Revere play CF in 2013, but it seems to me that this was a good trade for the Twins.

Man, I didn't think I would ever even question that I would be happy about even thinking about Mastro playing CF full time for the Twins.

Hard throwing power pitchers?! WHAT is going on? Here in MT me and my buddy had drinks tonight to celebrate trading 2 of our favorite players. Cheers to you JR.

Physics Guy
12-07-2012, 12:12 AM
Great job, Terry Ryan. Glad to have you back running the show. While I will miss watching Revere running around the diamond, I don't see why anybody would cause a fuss about trading him. I honestly think Hicks can equal, if not exceed, Revere's production this year.

Revere's minor league slash line: .325/.383/.787
Hicks' minor league slash line: .271/.379/.800
Mastroianni's mi.lg. slash line: .279/.368/.739

If Hicks isn't quite ready, Mastro can keep his place warm for a month or two. As a top of the order guy, isn't OBP the most important? Hicks is already Revere's equal there. He also has substantially more upside, potentially moving to the middle of the order if his power continues to develop. Revere's OPS was inflated by his first two years. Hicks' second best OPS was last year. Revere may cover more ground, but Hicks is no slouch and has an above average/great arm (potential as a P in draft).

Something else to ponder:
Hunter in his Age 22 year (Mostly AA New Britain, end at AAA Salt Lake): .295/.333/.796
Hicks in his Age 22 year (AA New Britain): .288/.384/.844

Hicks put up similar power numbers, but better OBP.

Brock Beauchamp
12-07-2012, 07:22 AM
Something else to ponder:
Hunter in his Age 22 year (Mostly AA New Britain, end at AAA Salt Lake): .295/.333/.796
Hicks in his Age 22 year (AA New Britain): .288/.384/.844

Hicks put up similar power numbers, but better OBP.

Also note that the good part of Hunter's age 22 OPS came from his time in Salt Lake, a place where I think I could OPS at .700.

Physics Guy
12-07-2012, 11:08 AM
Something else to ponder:
Hunter in his Age 22 year (Mostly AA New Britain, end at AAA Salt Lake): .295/.333/.796
Hicks in his Age 22 year (AA New Britain): .288/.384/.844

Hicks put up similar power numbers, but better OBP.

Also note that the good part of Hunter's age 22 OPS came from his time in Salt Lake, a place where I think I could OPS at .700.

Inflated numbers yes, but small sample size. Less than 100 AB.