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View Full Version : Gammons: Red Sox willing to take on all of Mauer's contract



Parker Hageman
12-06-2012, 09:48 AM
Jesse Lund at TwinkieTown.com (http://www.twinkietown.com/2012/12/6/3735658/peter-gammons-red-sox-offered-to-take-all-of-joe-mauers-contract) says that Peter Gammons told MLB Network that the Red Sox were willing to acquire Joe Mauer -- including his entire salary.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 09:54 AM
Well, yeah. There's no way in hell a team trades a franchise catcher that OPSes around .850 with a .410 OBP and eats part of the contract.

I'm not a fan of trading Mauer (AT ALL) but there's a small part of me that would love to see him tear it up in Fenway. He might be a perennial 1.000 OPS guy in that park.

gunnarthor
12-06-2012, 09:56 AM
Still not happening.

mike wants wins
12-06-2012, 09:57 AM
At first I thought this might be a good idea. But since it is clear they refuse to sign legit free agents, I am now opposed to this idea.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 10:05 AM
At first I thought this might be a good idea. But since it is clear they refuse to sign legit free agents, I am now opposed to this idea.

Given this market, they're not going to get somebody as good (much less better) than Mauer for $23m. It doesn't make any sense to trade the guy because all you have to do after that is go overpay somebody else.

mike wants wins
12-06-2012, 10:08 AM
I had hoped they would use that money, combined with the other money they have already freed up, to sign two or three of the tier 1 pitchers. But since it looks like even with tens of millions to spend, and having Mauer, they will not even sign a tier 2 guy.....

Winston Smith
12-06-2012, 10:13 AM
Good idea, get that payroll down around 60m so Terry and the Pohlads are happy. We still have Drew to step in Mauers spot!
It would appear that Mauer will be past his prime before the Twins can contend again so if the Sux offer Bogaerts, Barnes and Webster for him do it. We can lose 90+ games with him or without him.

Shane Wahl
12-06-2012, 10:15 AM
Well, yeah. There's no way in hell a team trades a franchise catcher that OPSes around .850 with a .410 OBP and eats part of the contract.

I'm not a fan of trading Mauer (AT ALL) but there's a small part of me that would love to see him tear it up in Fenway. He might be a perennial 1.000 OPS guy in that park.

I agree. What's the single-season doubles record? I seriously think he would break it in Monster doubles alone.

diehardtwinsfan
12-06-2012, 10:20 AM
Its kind of interesting that Boston seems to really really really really really want Mauer. I'm honestly not sure why. They were horrible last year and should be thinking rebuild, instead they want an expensive contract.

I'm not a huge fan of trading Mauer, and if I were Ryan, I'd be insisting they gave up the farm to get him too... that's about the only way I trade Mauer. The PR hit in the short term would be bad, but for the right prospects, this team would be setup very well come 2015.

twinsnorth49
12-06-2012, 10:25 AM
Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent.

mike wants wins
12-06-2012, 10:27 AM
Twinsnorth showing his age.....

TwinsFanInPhilly
12-06-2012, 12:58 PM
FWIW from Twitter

MLB Network Radio‏@MLBNetworkRadio Terry Ryan, Twins General Manager, tells us that they will listen to all offers on Joe Mauer & Justin Morneau. They need pitching

Top Gun
12-06-2012, 01:06 PM
Peter Gammons = Mr. Red Sox Dream on!

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-06-2012, 01:09 PM
FWIW from Twitter

MLB Network Radio‏@MLBNetworkRadio Terry Ryan, Twins General Manager, tells us that they will listen to all offers on Joe Mauer & Justin Morneau. They need pitching

Well yeah, it would be dumb not to listen to all offers.

But to get Mauer I think there are very few players they could take in return and not be absolutely roasted by the media/fans. It's not going to happen.

mike wants wins
12-06-2012, 01:10 PM
It was a great use of a classic line.....

TwinsFanInPhilly
12-06-2012, 01:12 PM
FWIW from Twitter

MLB Network Radio‏@MLBNetworkRadio Terry Ryan, Twins General Manager, tells us that they will listen to all offers on Joe Mauer & Justin Morneau. They need pitching

Well yeah, it would be dumb not to listen to all offers.

But to get Mauer I think there are very few players they could take in return and not be absolutely roasted by the media/fans. It's not going to happen.

Not sure where anyone (including me) said it was going to happen.

E. Andrew
12-06-2012, 01:13 PM
If we traded Mauer we'd essentially be admitting that 'No, the Twins never want to own a ~$20 million player.' Because he's worth the money. So financially, I guess if you can find a reasonable alternative. whatever. But if there's ever a ~$20 million dollar player that - specifically the Twins - should own, this is the one. The Pohlads have made it clear that half of revenue will be spent on players, so the money will be there, and a large chunk of it should go to Mauer. Fans love him (and they create the revenue) and he's worth it.

Oxtung
12-06-2012, 01:14 PM
I think many of you are quick to dismiss this idea. While trading Mauer would certainly hurt in the short term it might be the best long term option. We aren't going to be competitive in 2013 (unless TR all of a sudden decides to spend on FA). We are going to be a transitioning team in 2014. 2015 we might be competitive but 2016+ is looking potentially very strong.

In 2013 & '14 Mauer is going to be at his peak but will be wasted on bad teams. By the time 2015 rolls around he will be 32 years old. He probably will be out from behind the plate full time and his hitting could very well be starting to slide. Now you've got years 32-35 of Mauer while you are actually good but he is not (this is all relative of course, he could still put up OK numbers but probably not near his MVP days that he is getting paid for).

The real kicker here is the payroll flexibility. We will be paying Mauer $23M for what almost certainly won't be $23M worth of production. We will have so much money wrapped up in Mauer that we won't have much money to go out and sign (or re-sign) that piece we need to put us over the top.

While in the short term trading Mauer would be a big PR hit in the long term the payroll flexibility combined with hopefully a very competitive team in 2015+ might making it beneficial.

Riverbrian
12-06-2012, 01:19 PM
The Red Sox may pay the entire salary but the entire salary would lessen the return in my opinion... And if the return is lessened... The reason to move Mauer is also lessened.

If Money is freed up in a Mauer deal... In my opinion... There is nothing worthwhile to spend it on at the moment. We got enough money to spend on what is currently out there with Joes salary factored in.

if the Red Sox want to take the salary and give us a real nice package of players... Goodbye Joe... I'll miss you... I've loved watching you play.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 01:19 PM
We will be paying Mauer $23M for what almost certainly won't be $23M worth of production.

Given what we've seen in the past few weeks, I very much think the Twins will be getting $23m of production from Mauer. Guys like BJ Upton are getting $15m a year now. Jose Reyes goes from $10m to $22m in 2014. Greinke, a borderline #1 at best, looks to approach $20m a year. Sanchez, who isn't as good as Greinke, is asking for $16-17m.

I'm perfectly content with Mauer at $23m, provided he doesn't completely break down.

FWIW, you can add the 2012 WAR of Greinke AND Sanchez together and they're about the same value as Mauer by himself.

gunnarthor
12-06-2012, 01:20 PM
I think many of you are quick to dismiss this idea. While trading Mauer would certainly hurt in the short term it might be the best long term option. We aren't going to be competitive in 2013 (unless TR all of a sudden decides to spend on FA). We are going to be a transitioning team in 2014. 2015 we might be competitive but 2016+ is looking potentially very strong.

In 2013 & '14 Mauer is going to be at his peak but will be wasted on bad teams. By the time 2015 rolls around he will be 32 years old. He probably will be out from behind the plate full time and his hitting could very well be starting to slide. Now you've got years 32-35 of Mauer while you are actually good but he is not (this is all relative of course, he could still put up OK numbers but probably not near his MVP days that he is getting paid for).

The real kicker here is the payroll flexibility. We will be paying Mauer $23M for what almost certainly won't be $23M worth of production. We will have so much money wrapped up in Mauer that we won't have much money to go out and sign (or re-sign) that piece we need to put us over the top.

While in the short term trading Mauer would be a big PR hit in the long term the payroll flexibility combined with hopefully a very competitive team in 2015+ might making it beneficial.

First, Mauer isn't going to waive his no-trade clause so it's probably a moot point. But look at this years FA class. Where would the Twins spend the money in the future? They might lock up young prospects like Sano on deals that buy out their first few years of free agency but if they trade Mauer, I think it would mean that they are set at payrolls around 70-80m. I don't think they'd ever. use FA to sign a guy like Anibal Sanchez

nicksaviking
12-06-2012, 01:20 PM
However generally when a team says they are willing to eat all of a salary, the implication is that they will do so in exchange for not including top prospects and for Mauer, I'd want them all.

The Twins are most likely going to be relying on the cheap guys on the farm for most of the next decade, unless they suddenly decide to get in on Greinke or THE top ace each of the next half dozen years, payroll shouldn't be a concern going forward Mauer's contract included.

wavedog
12-06-2012, 01:21 PM
Boston has 3 catchers on their roster already - Salty, Ross and Napoli - not sure they would need another even platooning those at other positions, but if we did deal (which won;t happen and I am not advocating) I am sure we would get one of those back.

greengoblinrulz
12-06-2012, 01:24 PM
For me, Boston is willing to eat ALL the contract makes me listen BUT then it still goes down to getting acceptable value in players/prospects......3-4 of them. If THAT is what Boston will do, lets do it.....if not, thanks but no thanks

jokin
12-06-2012, 01:30 PM
Boston has 3 catchers on their roster already - Salty, Ross and Napoli - not sure they would need another even platooning those at other positions, but if we did deal (which won;t happen and I am not advocating) I am sure we would get one of those back.

I think the Sox already are projecting Napoli for some 1B duties. And they have talked about moving Salty. He would be a good get in a package deal, along with their top MI prospect and two SPs, a vet and prospect. Hey, after this last trade and the Red Sox's desperate need for relevancy again, anything's possible.

mike wants wins
12-06-2012, 01:33 PM
Payroll flexibility only matters if you are going to spend money.....still have not seen that willingness.

jokin
12-06-2012, 01:33 PM
For me, Boston is willing to eat ALL the contract makes me listen BUT then it still goes down to getting acceptable value in players/prospects......3-4 of them. If THAT is what Boston will do, lets do it.....if not, thanks but no thanks

Let's see how desperate they are. How about their top 2 MI prospects (who are clearly better, now as minor league prospects, than what the Twins plan on playing in 2013), Salty and Lester?

Big City
12-06-2012, 01:36 PM
If the Sox offered up Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Boegarts, Barnes and Webster you'd have to listen, right???

Oxtung
12-06-2012, 02:00 PM
We will be paying Mauer $23M for what almost certainly won't be $23M worth of production.

Given what we've seen in the past few weeks, I very much think the Twins will be getting $23m of production from Mauer. Guys like BJ Upton are getting $15m a year now. Jose Reyes goes from $10m to $22m in 2014. Greinke, a borderline #1 at best, looks to approach $20m a year. Sanchez, who isn't as good as Greinke, is asking for $16-17m.

I'm perfectly content with Mauer at $23m, provided he doesn't completely break down.

FWIW, you can add the 2012 WAR of Greinke AND Sanchez together and they're about the same value as Mauer by himself.

The Twins very well might get $23M of production from Mauer this year and perhaps next year. Maybe even 2015. But how about when Joe is 33, 34, 35 years old? Those are the years we are going to be competitive. Those are the years we could really use that $23M to go out and get that [insert position of need] we are missing. Those are also the years Joe is going to be getting worse and worse. His value will be dropping, especially since he very well might be DH'ing at that point, but his salary will remain $23M.

The Twins are going to continue to lose fans with or without Joe Mauer on the team. That is what happens when you're bad. Unless TR makes a big splash in the FA pitching market we're going to be bad this year and quite possibly next year as well. Those same fans will return when a good product is on the field as shown by the early 2000's attendance resurgence. Joe Mauer isn't going to save this team from poor attendance numbers. But he very well could prevent this team from making a move in 2017 when the Twins are competitive.

So the question ultimately comes down to are a few thousand fans a game in 2013 &2014 worth $23M when the Twins are competitive again? Keep in mind the Twins could use that $23M to go out and get a big name splash to replace Joe Mauer. How does Ryan Dempster AND Shaun Marcum sound?

johnnydakota
12-06-2012, 02:06 PM
At first I thought this might be a good idea. But since it is clear they refuse to sign legit free agents, I am now opposed to this idea.

Given this market, they're not going to get somebody as good (much less better) than Mauer for $23m. It doesn't make any sense to trade the guy because all you have to do after that is go overpay somebody else.

With salary inflation this year and next, i expect joes contract will be looked at differently

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 02:10 PM
So the question ultimately comes down to are a few thousand fans a game in 2013 &2014 worth $23M when the Twins are competitive again? Keep in mind the Twins could use that $23M to go out and get a big name splash to replace Joe Mauer. How does Ryan Dempster AND Shaun Marcum sound?

While I don't entirely disagree with much of your post, I want to focus on this. Dempster and Marcum will hamstring the payroll as bad or worse than Mauer and even when combined, equate to a similar amount of wins (Mauer is roughly a 5 win player, Marcum/Dempster combined are 5 win players). Both are older than Mauer and from 2013-2015 (not getting either for less than three years, probably more with Marcum), will be more expensive and declining more rapidly than Joe due to advanced age (mostly Dempster).

To boot, to get both those guys, you're looking at paying at least $25m a year, probably more.

Keeping Mauer is a risk. There's no denying that. But considering free agent salaries this offseason, Mauer's production per dollar is actually good compared to what these other clowns are getting on the market. It's absurd to think that BJ Upton is a $15m player or that Jeremy-freakin-Guthrie is an $8m guy. And just LOL at Shane Victorino at $13m.

This offseason is bananas. If you even manage to get rid of Mauer, that $23m you spend to replace him is going to bring you less in return than Joe.

With that said, I'm not against trading him if a team offers the farm for ol' Joe.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-06-2012, 02:13 PM
If the Sox offered up Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Boegarts, Barnes and Webster you'd have to listen, right???

Exactly! Im indifferent about trading Mauer. I love watching him play. But if its best for the team to trade em, do what ya gotta do!

jokin
12-06-2012, 02:23 PM
So the question ultimately comes down to are a few thousand fans a game in 2013 &2014 worth $23M when the Twins are competitive again? Keep in mind the Twins could use that $23M to go out and get a big name splash to replace Joe Mauer. How does Ryan Dempster AND Shaun Marcum sound?

While I don't entirely disagree with much of your post, I want to focus on this. Dempster and Marcum will hamstring the payroll as bad or worse than Mauer and even when combined, equate to a similar amount of wins (Mauer is roughly a 5 win player, Marcum/Dempster combined are 5 win players). Both are older than Mauer and from 2013-2015 (not getting either for less than three years, probably more with Marcum), will be more expensive and declining more rapidly than Joe due to advanced age (mostly Dempster).

To boot, to get both those guys, you're looking at paying at least $25m a year, probably more.

Keeping Mauer is a risk. There's no denying that. But considering free agent salaries this offseason, Mauer's production per dollar is actually good compared to what these other clowns are getting on the market. It's absurd to think that BJ Upton is a $15m player or that Jeremy-freakin-Guthrie is an $8m guy. And just LOL at Shane Victorino at $13m.

This offseason is bananas. If you even manage to get rid of Mauer, that $23m you spend to replace him is going to bring you less in return than Joe.

With that said, I'm not against trading him if a team offers the farm for ol' Joe.

The Twins moves are indicating that a chief priority in rebuilding the pitching staff is getting much younger. The days of Pavano signings are over for now. They appear to be aligning a team like the early 80s team, a young group all playing for a pittance and taking their lumps while maturing together to make a strong run like they did from 87-92 and 04-10. This philosophy demands that if the Sox would make an offer something close to Middlebrooks, Bogaerts, Salty and a SP, you have to make that deal for Mauer.

Oxtung
12-06-2012, 02:26 PM
So the question ultimately comes down to are a few thousand fans a game in 2013 &2014 worth $23M when the Twins are competitive again? Keep in mind the Twins could use that $23M to go out and get a big name splash to replace Joe Mauer. How does Ryan Dempster AND Shaun Marcum sound?

While I don't entirely disagree with much of your post, I want to focus on this. Dempster and Marcum will hamstring the payroll as bad or worse than Mauer and even when combined, equate to a similar amount of wins (Mauer is roughly a 5 win player, Marcum/Dempster combined are 5 win players). Both are older than Mauer and from 2013-2015 (not getting either for less than three years, probably more with Marcum), will be more expensive and declining more rapidly than Joe due to advanced age (mostly Dempster).

To boot, to get both those guys, you're looking at paying at least $25m a year, probably more.

Keeping Mauer is a risk. There's no denying that. But considering free agent salaries this offseason, Mauer's production per dollar is actually good compared to what these other clowns are getting on the market. It's absurd to think that BJ Upton is a $15m player or that Jeremy-freakin-Guthrie is an $8m guy. And just LOL at Shane Victorino at $13m.

This offseason is bananas. If you even manage to get rid of Mauer, that $23m you spend to replace him is going to bring you less in return than Joe.

With that said, I'm not against trading him if a team offers the farm for ol' Joe.

I don't really disagree with much of what you're saying but you seem to be missing my larger point. Dempster and Marcum only lock that $23M up for 2-3 years. That means when the Twins need payroll flexibility the most they will have it. Come 2016 when we need that starting 2B we will have the cash to go get him.

Here's another bonus of the "Dempster/Marcum" approach (again, it could be any players...I just threw those 2 out there). Mauer's contract makes him very difficult to move. Dempster/Marcum could very well be tradeable in the future for more prospects. Which of course then frees up the $23M again to go sign some big names the next season. Does anyone think that there won't be a market in July or next December for good starting pitching?

Oxtung
12-06-2012, 02:27 PM
Of course, as someone said earlier, this is all probably a moot point. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that Mauer would wave his no trade clause.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 02:31 PM
I don't really disagree with much of what you're saying but you seem to be missing my larger point. Dempster and Marcum only lock that $23M up for 2-3 years.

This is where we're disagreeing and this changes the entire argument based on perspective.

I think Dempster gets three years and Marcum gets four. I don't see anybody outside of scrubs getting two year deals this offseason.

As for trading either of them in a year or two, that is definitely something to consider.

ericchri
12-06-2012, 02:34 PM
Make Dustin Pedroia part of the package coming back, and I'm on board...

Oxtung
12-06-2012, 02:38 PM
I don't really disagree with much of what you're saying but you seem to be missing my larger point. Dempster and Marcum only lock that $23M up for 2-3 years.

This is where we're disagreeing and this changes the entire argument based on perspective.

I think Dempster gets three years and Marcum gets four. I don't see anybody outside of scrubs getting two year deals this offseason.

As for trading either of them in a year or two, that is definitely something to consider.

I think I am right back to my original point. People are seemingly dismissing this out of hand. I think that is a mistake. There are some potentially very big benefits. Just how big those benefits ended up depends on exactly how things would play out. I don't think this is a cut and dry "HELL NO!" answer I guess.

iastfan112
12-06-2012, 02:50 PM
So the question ultimately comes down to are a few thousand fans a game in 2013 &2014 worth $23M when the Twins are competitive again? Keep in mind the Twins could use that $23M to go out and get a big name splash to replace Joe Mauer. How does Ryan Dempster AND Shaun Marcum sound?

While I don't entirely disagree with much of your post, I want to focus on this. Dempster and Marcum will hamstring the payroll as bad or worse than Mauer and even when combined, equate to a similar amount of wins (Mauer is roughly a 5 win player, Marcum/Dempster combined are 5 win players). Both are older than Mauer and from 2013-2015 (not getting either for less than three years, probably more with Marcum), will be more expensive and declining more rapidly than Joe due to advanced age (mostly Dempster).

To boot, to get both those guys, you're looking at paying at least $25m a year, probably more.

Keeping Mauer is a risk. There's no denying that. But considering free agent salaries this offseason, Mauer's production per dollar is actually good compared to what these other clowns are getting on the market. It's absurd to think that BJ Upton is a $15m player or that Jeremy-freakin-Guthrie is an $8m guy. And just LOL at Shane Victorino at $13m.

This offseason is bananas. If you even manage to get rid of Mauer, that $23m you spend to replace him is going to bring you less in return than Joe.

With that said, I'm not against trading him if a team offers the farm for ol' Joe.

Disagree with you partially Pig. Upton's been somewhere between a 3-4 win player and is under 30, his contract is pretty much market value. Victorino, again 3-4 win player(5.9 two years ago!). Little bit older so lower payout. I'll agree Mauer will be a solid contract if he keeps up his production for a few more years. The big question will be how well he holds up, if he can keep this 5 win plateau for a the next 2 years and then go into a more typical .5 win decline per year the contract will be viewed as fair. If it starts earlier than that we have a problem, even with inflation.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 02:57 PM
Disagree with you partially Pig. Upton's been somewhere between a 3-4 win player and is under 30, his contract is pretty much market value. Victorino, again 3-4 win player(5.9 two years ago!). Little bit older so lower payout. I'll agree Mauer will be a solid contract if he keeps up his production for a few more years. The big question will be how well he holds up, if he can keep this 5 win plateau for a the next 2 years and then go into a more typical .5 win decline per year the contract will be viewed as fair. If it starts earlier than that we have a problem, even with inflation.

BB-Ref is down on Upton/Victorino compared to FG. I agree that both are decent players but Upton's inability to get on base is a huge concern for me.

While if Mauer stays healthy, he'll be back behind the plate more often in 2013 (Ryan has said as much). That means his value may actually rise in the coming two years. His decline is certainly a concern from 2015-2018, though.

SweetOne69
12-06-2012, 03:00 PM
If Mauer plays in 150 games, I would like him to catch 60% of the time and 20% at 1B and DH. That would give him 90 games at C and 30 each @ 1B and DH.

John Bonnes
12-06-2012, 03:19 PM
I wonder if we're thinking about this the wrong way. Let me offer a different type of deal, one that might make a lot more sense for the Twins....

Since the Twins likely won't be able to spend that money this offseason anyway (and maybe not next), what if the the Twins send Mauer to the Red Sox with the offer of paying, say, 50% of his salary over the next two years? In return, the Twins want top prospect back from the Sox, particulaly pitching and middle infield. (I don't really know who thay have that's desirable.)

A $23M Mauer might not be that valuable to them, but a $11M Mauer has to be worth four top prospects, right? The Twins get young talent, the money they save this year year is essentially used to buy that young talent, and they free up payroll to pay these guys when they get expensive in a few years.

Would that kind of deal make sense? Anyone got any Sox prospects they want to float out there?

Oxtung
12-06-2012, 03:24 PM
Disagree with you partially Pig. Upton's been somewhere between a 3-4 win player and is under 30, his contract is pretty much market value. Victorino, again 3-4 win player(5.9 two years ago!). Little bit older so lower payout. I'll agree Mauer will be a solid contract if he keeps up his production for a few more years. The big question will be how well he holds up, if he can keep this 5 win plateau for a the next 2 years and then go into a more typical .5 win decline per year the contract will be viewed as fair. If it starts earlier than that we have a problem, even with inflation.

BB-Ref is down on Upton/Victorino compared to FG. I agree that both are decent players but Upton's inability to get on base is a huge concern for me.

While if Mauer stays healthy, he'll be back behind the plate more often in 2013 (Ryan has said as much). That means his value may actually rise in the coming two years. His decline is certainly a concern from 2015-2018, though.

Do you think the Twins will be competitive in 2013 or '14? If not what does it matter if Mauer is good in '13 or '14? What will matter (hopefully) is his production in the out years when he is 33+.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 03:24 PM
I wonder if we're thinking about this the wrong way. Let me offer a different type of deal, one that might make a lot more sense for the Twins....

Since the Twins likely won't be able to spend that money this offseason anyway (and maybe not next), what if the the Twins send Mauer to the Red Sox with the offer of paying, say, 50% of his salary over the next two years? In return, the Twins want top prospect back from the Sox, particulaly pitching and middle infield. (I don't really know who thay have that's desirable.)

A $23M Mauer might not be that valuable to them, but a $11M Mauer has to be worth four top prospects, right? The Twins get young talent, the money they save this year year is essentially used to buy that young talent, and they free up payroll to pay these guys when they get expensive in a few years.

Would that kind of deal make sense? Anyone got any Sox prospects they want to float out there?

It makes quite a bit of sense, actually.

Oxtung
12-06-2012, 03:35 PM
I wonder if we're thinking about this the wrong way. Let me offer a different type of deal, one that might make a lot more sense for the Twins....

Since the Twins likely won't be able to spend that money this offseason anyway (and maybe not next), what if the the Twins send Mauer to the Red Sox with the offer of paying, say, 50% of his salary over the next two years? In return, the Twins want top prospect back from the Sox, particulaly pitching and middle infield. (I don't really know who thay have that's desirable.)

A $23M Mauer might not be that valuable to them, but a $11M Mauer has to be worth four top prospects, right? The Twins get young talent, the money they save this year year is essentially used to buy that young talent, and they free up payroll to pay these guys when they get expensive in a few years.

Would that kind of deal make sense? Anyone got any Sox prospects they want to float out there?

It makes quite a bit of sense, actually.

I think it depends on what you get in return. Just getting minor league prospects back is a problem. The fans need something for the major league team this year even if that is a return like Worley, a guy who is young and the fans can point to and say this is a player for our future. We're building around him. I don't know the Red Sox personel or FO well enough to know who that player is that we could actually get back in return. That's not to say we should ONLY be looking to get back MLB ready talent.

twinkiesfan11
12-06-2012, 03:37 PM
Trading Mauer would be a major mistake for the following reasons:

1. His contract is becoming more and more reasonable in the context of the free agent contracts being handed out this offseason.
2. He demonstrated that he can stay healthy given the proper workload. He's at least an average defender both behind the plate and at 1B, his bat is a plus even when he DH's.
3. He's still young enough to build around and the Twins are assembling a nice core through the minor league system to support him.
4. He's the face of the franchise, the guy that the casual fans rally around.
5. The local boy who plays his entire career in his childhood back yard and marries a local girl is too good of a story. This sounds cheesy but it's good for baseball and it's good for the Twins.

Peter Gammons and the Red Sox need to drop it, it's not happening or at least it better not.

Oxtung
12-06-2012, 03:38 PM
I guess the alternative is to go out and get a big headline guy like Dempster with the ~40M trading Mauer would free up. While Dempster probably doesn't help the Twins much in the next few years it does give the fans something to show up to the ball park for while also freeing up his salary for the playoff years in the future.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
12-06-2012, 03:44 PM
I think the baseball world explodes if Mauer is traded. There is no way we should trade him. He's a Hall of Famer and should be a career Twin.

S.
12-06-2012, 03:49 PM
Personally, I don't see how Dempster would give fans any additional reason to show up.

twinkiesfan11
12-06-2012, 03:53 PM
Personally, I don't see how Dempster would give fans any additional reason to show up.

I thought that same thing, last year Mauer and Morneau were the only positives that kept me watching. I'm a big prospect geek and the idea of trading Mauer for prospects and a chance to sign Ryan Dempster is vomit inducing.

mike wants wins
12-06-2012, 03:56 PM
They can afford Marcum and Dempster right now. Trading Mauer has to be about stud middle infielders, a pitcher, ans then signing a third legit player this year or next.

Oxtung
12-06-2012, 04:07 PM
For those of you hating on Dempster that's fine. Pick the FA you like. My point was only that losing Mauer could be partially mitigated by bringing in 1 or 2 big names on contracts that only last 2-3 years.

Kobs
12-06-2012, 04:11 PM
Well, yeah. There's no way in hell a team trades a franchise catcher that OPSes around .850 with a .410 OBP and eats part of the contract.

I'm not a fan of trading Mauer (AT ALL) but there's a small part of me that would love to see him tear it up in Fenway. He might be a perennial 1.000 OPS guy in that park.

Tell that to the Rangers.

diehardtwinsfan
12-06-2012, 04:49 PM
If they traded Mauer, I'd argue that they'd need to have to find a way to pick up a decent catching prospect or two. There's not much help at C in the minor league system.

ashburyjohn
12-06-2012, 06:50 PM
A $23M Mauer might not be that valuable to them, but a $11M Mauer has to be worth four top prospects, right?

Again I like this approach to analysis, but I don't think it works out the same way as it does for a guy with an expiring contract, like Morneau. Two years of an $11M Mauer is worth a lot, a real lot. What's left on that contract, though, is 4 more years at $23M of (likely) declining production and/or moving out entirely from catcher where his production makes him so valuable compared to 1B or DH. Might the risk in 2018 of paying $23M for .750 in OPS from your 1B/DH be downright negative, so much so that it subtracts what you are willing to offer in trade? I think probably yes.

As I said, a useful form of analysis, in the literal sense of breaking down the question into manageable pieces.

diehardtwinsfan
12-06-2012, 06:58 PM
If the Sox offered up Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Boegarts, Barnes and Webster you'd have to listen, right???

I think the Twins woudl take it and run (as they should). I cannot see the Sox offering up much, but if they were desparate, I'd start at Boegarts, Barnes and Lavarnway at a minimum. I could see taking Salty as well just to have someoe behind the plate in MN.

That said, this is a pipedream...

Fire Dan Gladden
12-06-2012, 07:07 PM
Any chances of Mauer being moved were traded to the Nationals a few years back. The only way Mauer gets moved is if he requests it. Otherwise you are are looking at a life long Twin.

I believe as the years go on, you will see Mauer spend less time behind the plate. His offense alone has tremendous value. Keeping him healthy will help keep his value closer to the actual contract.

The Red Sox were/are looking for Mauer to play 1B full time. Can't see that happening right now.

syves
12-06-2012, 07:14 PM
Only trade him if the Red Sox are willing to sell the house to us. It would be a massive PR hit, and everyone knows it. The people who comment on this site would still watch, but everyone else in Twins Territory would be gone.

Lavarnway, Boegarts, Middlebrooks, and Barnes. And the Pesky Pole.

The Pesky Pole is the Sine Qua Non.

Top Gun
12-06-2012, 07:16 PM
Red sox like to stir up trouble then they back down and want something for nothing that's how they operate.

Dilligaf69
12-06-2012, 07:20 PM
What's a real nice pkg though?? IMO they would need a C/ Bucholz or Lester and two of 2B/SS/3B and one of their top SP prospects at least..then I consider it...maybe!

Blake
12-06-2012, 07:33 PM
Mauer for Ellsbury.

kab21
12-06-2012, 07:40 PM
This isn't an option. You don't trade Mauer so you can free up money to sign old, average SP'ers like Marcum and Dempster when you already have the money to sign them. Mauer might be a little expensive at the end of his contract but by 2018 the Twins should be able to have a payroll of 125+M minimum. One reason that Mauer's contract isn't going to hurt that payroll much is that the team will largely be made up of players still in arbitration.

jokin
12-06-2012, 08:12 PM
If they traded Mauer, I'd argue that they'd need to have to find a way to pick up a decent catching prospect or two. There's not much help at C in the minor league system.

IMO, a Salty or a Wieters (back to the Orioles apparent interest in another bat) would have to be part of the trade. They cannot go through the next couple of bridge years with Butera as the #1A C along with Doumit.

jokin
12-06-2012, 08:16 PM
If the Sox offered up Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Boegarts, Barnes and Webster you'd have to listen, right???

I think the Twins woudl take it and run (as they should). I cannot see the Sox offering up much, but if they were desparate, I'd start at Boegarts, Barnes and Lavarnway at a minimum. I could see taking Salty as well just to have someoe behind the plate in MN.

That said, this is a pipedream...

Probably so, but there have been a few headscratching, WTF trades made in the last 6 months that tend to say almost anything is possible (And Boston was already one of them). When Edes is clamoring for it, and then joined by Gammons, there's probably fire behind their smoke.

one_eyed_jack
12-06-2012, 08:27 PM
We do realize that this discussion is purely academic due to Mauer's no-trade clause, yes?

But sure, let's indulge the fantasy for a moment. Let's suppose Boston gives us a few promising prospects in exchange for taking on the remainder of Mauer's unbearable contract, thus removing a source of endless angst and hand-wringing in Twins Territory.

What then? Willingly endure losing as these youngsters take their lumps and learn to play with the big boys in hopes that one day after the next presidential election, we might see a record north of 80 wins again?

Ah, but children, there's a problem you see. Cheap little cubbies do not stay so forever. Before you know it, they're all grown up and want big bear contracts. And by then, they'll be even bigger and scarier <gasp> than the one that had been giving you nightmares before it moved away to Boston. Then what? Surely, we do not want more Big Bad Contracts in Twins Territory. The last spread unhappiness and despair throughout the land. Perhaps the heroes from beyond the eastern horizon will rescue us once again and leave a few of their young behind for us to raise for them.

And so will continue the once unpopular but currently trendy fairy tale of "The Quaint Little Farm Team".

diehardtwinsfan
12-07-2012, 07:12 AM
One_eyed...

I'm pretty sure that given most people have said this is a pipe dream should tell you that this is a fantasy. There's a lot of reasons why it won't happen. Part is that I think Boston will want him for cheap (which shouldn't happen) and part is the NTC.

Where it is fun is that Boston's top 5 actually fits well into places of need for the Twins. Boegarts is a SS in AA. Barnes is a top flight starter. Lavernway would be the future cather, and Middlebrooks plays 3rd.. Boston would be stupid to do that... and the Twins would have the best farm system if they pulled it off. but it's fun to fantasize. Almost as fun as fantasizing about Kate Upton...

gil4
12-07-2012, 08:06 AM
Twinsnorth showing his age.....

And so am I, by suggesting so are you.


What's the reference? I just want to know if I'm too old, too young, too ignorant, or some combination. (I'm guessing 1 and 3)

mike wants wins
12-07-2012, 08:07 AM
Not gonna happen, wouldn't be prudent....George Bush quote....

nicksaviking
12-07-2012, 08:19 AM
Ha, actually Dana Carvey quote. He took liberties with his impression and quotes of Bush on SNL.

mike wants wins
12-07-2012, 08:23 AM
Ah,.probably true....the memory is an interesting thing....funny, now that you say that, I can see Carvey.....

kryptik
12-07-2012, 08:35 AM
Boston wouldn't be willing to give up enough to get the Twins to part with the franchise player.