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View Full Version : If Revere goes to Philly, who comes back?



twinstalker
12-06-2012, 09:37 AM
It appears the #1 suitor for Revere is Philadelphia. The Revere thread was about Revere, so I wanted to take the discussion in another direction. They need a CF, and the FA alternatives are incredibly expensive. Who is reasonable to get back from Philly if we give them Revere? The candidates:

Vance Worley, 25. He's not a bad young pitcher. His peripherals don't predict amazing success, but they're good by Twins standards, he's outpitched them (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/worleva01.shtml) over his two years with the big club, at least until his elbow started hurting. And the Phillies are trying to move him. So what's the problem? He's injured and is a surgery waiting to happen. Worley hurt his elbow this past season, rested, and tried to play through it. No such luck, as he was shut down in late August. They say bone chips, but that's often a precursor to TJS. Okay, being a pitcher is often a precursor to TJS.

Jesse Biddle, 21. One of three Philly prospect pitchers that might get the Twins attention. Biddle had a good year (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=biddle001jes) in the FSL and should be ready for AA and perhaps beyond 2013.

Trevor May, 23. Philadelphia's most intriguing pitcher is a K machine (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=may---001tre). Okay, make that a BB machine. He's struggled with his control, and his first few months of 2013 were near-disaster, but he put together a nice August. From 2011 A+ ball to AA in 2012 May's K rate declined, and his BB rate increased. The Phillies top pitching prospect last year might never get it together in a starting role. I'm hoping for May so stupid Twins fans can refer to our young SPs as Mays and Meyers.

Julio Rodriguez, 22. Pitching at age 21 in AA, Rodriguez threw up numbers that weren't that different from the age 22 May (both have had birthdays since). His high A numbers in 2011 were tremendous (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=rodrig008jul) and also mirrored May, and it give you pause with Biddle's nice 2012 season there in Clearwater.

Ethan Martin, 23. What is it with Philly pitchers? Martin pitched 158 innings between AA and AAA inn 2012, giving up only 118 hits and striking out 147, but yielding 79 walks.

Adam Morgan, 22. Morgan had a very good season (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=morgan000ada) between A+ and AA in 2012. A 3rd rd pick from Alabama in 2011, Morgan threw 159 innings with 169 K, and a K/BB of 4.33. The majority of those numbers were at Clearwater, and he didn't dominate as much at AA Reading in seven starts, but his year is remarkably similar to Alex Meyer's (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=meyer-001ale).

Others: Jonathan Pettibone 22.

My preference? I do like Worley, but I think having a bone spur removed from your elbow is a bigger deal than some might. Still, he's expected to be fine by spring training. He's a #3 starter at best, but he's a good pitcher who did well when healthy in a horrible park for pitchers. The Twins should jump on Worley if one of the others is included, but that's probably asking way too much. Maybe that gives the Twins a chance to be creative. Perhaps Revere and Nate Roberts can persuade the Philles to give up Worley and one of these prospects. That could be a tremendous deal for the Twins. But getting Worley alone might be too risky if his elbow doesn't both hold up and allow him to get back to early numbers.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 09:51 AM
Interesting. Thanks for the heads-up on the Phils system. I know virtually nothing about it.

John Bonnes
12-06-2012, 09:57 AM
You touched on the big problem in the Phils organization - control. I can't imaging the can get Biddle. I'm intrigued by May.

Worley - I kind of like him, but next year he'll be arbitration eligible. Would I take him straight up for Revere? Maybe. I don't know.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 10:01 AM
You touched on the big problem in the Phils organization - control. I can't imaging the can get Biddle. I'm intrigued by May.

Worley - I kind of like him, but next year he'll be arbitration eligible. Would I take him straight up for Revere? Maybe. I don't know.

I'd like to see the Twins pursue guys in the minors but given the FA pitching market, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see Ryan pursue Worley because he's not confident in his ability to sign a Major League pitcher that isn't awful.

And that might be the right decision to make in this situation.

USAFChief
12-06-2012, 10:02 AM
Cliff Lee. Do it.

diehardtwinsfan
12-06-2012, 10:12 AM
I think I'd prefer one of the minor league guys too. Between the elbow barking, the peripherals, and 2 years of service time, he's not the guy I'd target... then again, I never thought we'd get much of anything for Revere

Shane Wahl
12-06-2012, 10:20 AM
I can't believe this is actually a possibility. It is shocking to me that Revere's name is being thrown out there and that an actual top prospect could return.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 10:24 AM
I can't believe this is actually a possibility. It is shocking to me that Revere's name is being thrown out there and that an actual top prospect could return.

Baseball seems to be centerfielder-crazy right now. Ryan is right to take advantage of that.

twinstalker
12-06-2012, 10:27 AM
I can't believe this is actually a possibility. It is shocking to me that Revere's name is being thrown out there and that an actual top prospect could return.

Baseball seems to be centerfielder-crazy right now. Ryan is right to take advantage of that.
Taking advantage of a system's inefficiencies is so...so MoneyBall.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 10:39 AM
I can't believe this is actually a possibility. It is shocking to me that Revere's name is being thrown out there and that an actual top prospect could return.

Baseball seems to be centerfielder-crazy right now. Ryan is right to take advantage of that.
Taking advantage of a system's inefficiencies is so...so MoneyBall.

Ryan has spent his career doing a pretty damned good job of playing a MoneyBall game. He simply plays it in a very different way than Beane.

Overall, I think Beane is the slightly smarter GM but Ryan is no slouch, either.

TwinsFanInPhilly
12-06-2012, 10:45 AM
More on Ben Revere from Twitter

David O'Brien‏@ajcbraves#Braves (http://twinsdaily.com/search?q=%23Braves&src=hash) are interested and have spoken with Twins about Revere. RT @Tgreg2121 (http://twinsdaily.com/Tgreg2121): @ajcbraves (http://twinsdaily.com/ajcbraves) why aren't WE talking to Twins about Ben revere?

Jim Crikket
12-06-2012, 10:49 AM
I guess the question I would pose is whether we really think Ryan can get away with trading Revere for another pitcher that will not contribute in 2013. After doing that with Span, I pretty much assume that further trades of MLB level talent will have to bring some kind of immediate contributor (preferably that will contribute for several years). We can talk all we want about what's best for the long term good of the organization, but there's a PR reality that has to be considered. Gutting the team for 2013 or even appearing to do so will absolutely kill attendance. That means less revenue. That means less money to spend in 2014. That means you're going to rely almost 100% on your home grown talent in 2015 and beyond because the death spiral of attendance and revenues may not leave money to fill gaps by acquiring veterans.

I just think sending the message that they're totally punting on 2013 would be very, very risky from a business standpoint.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-06-2012, 10:56 AM
I can't believe this is actually a possibility. It is shocking to me that Revere's name is being thrown out there and that an actual top prospect could return.

Baseball seems to be centerfielder-crazy right now. Ryan is right to take advantage of that.

Baseball is CF crazy right now! Ryan should definitely see whats out there on this crazy market. Some guy in a thread the other day tried to tell me there is no value in CFs.....Has he seen the crazy contracts lately for a CF?

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-06-2012, 10:57 AM
More on Ben Revere from Twitter

David O'Brien‏@ajcbraves#Braves (http://twinsdaily.com/search?q=%23Braves&src=hash) are interested and have spoken with Twins about Revere. RT @Tgreg2121 (http://twinsdaily.com/Tgreg2121): @ajcbraves (http://twinsdaily.com/ajcbraves) why aren't WE talking to Twins about Ben revere?/

it would be quite nice if the braves were to offer a nice pitcher for Revere ;) but.....its not likely to happen.

Shane Wahl
12-06-2012, 11:01 AM
The Phillies are seriously cray-cray. Their TOP choice for CF is Ben Revere????

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-06-2012, 11:05 AM
Twins outfielder Ben Revere (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reverbe01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com) appears to be in play, despite the team trading Denard Span (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/spande01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com) to the Nationals six days ago. Revere, 24, hit .294/.333/.342 in 553 plate appearances for the Twins this year, stealing 40 bags in 49 tries. With just one year and 149 days of Major League service, Revere will not be arbitration eligible until 2014 at the earliest, and is under team control through 2017. The latest:


Revere may be the Phillies' top choice for center field, tweets Danny Knobler of CBS Sports (https://twitter.com/DKnobler/status/276728451677962241). The Phillies might be able to accommodate the Twins' need for starting pitching. Phillies executives Ruben Amaro Jr. and Pat Gillick met separately with Twins GM Terry Ryan this morning, tweets MLB.com's Todd Zolecki (https://twitter.com/ToddZolecki/statuses/276720805281411072).
The Braves are interested and have spoken to the Twins about Revere, tweets David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (https://twitter.com/ajcbraves/statuses/276727337557577728).

ThePuck
12-06-2012, 11:07 AM
Twins outfielder Ben Revere (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/reverbe01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com) appears to be in play, despite the team trading Denard Span (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/spande01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-www.typepad.com) to the Nationals six days ago. Revere, 24, hit .294/.333/.342 in 553 plate appearances for the Twins this year, stealing 40 bags in 49 tries. With just one year and 149 days of Major League service, Revere will not be arbitration eligible until 2014 at the earliest, and is under team control through 2017. The latest:


Revere may be the Phillies' top choice for center field, tweets Danny Knobler of CBS Sports (https://twitter.com/DKnobler/status/276728451677962241). The Phillies might be able to accommodate the Twins' need for starting pitching. Phillies executives Ruben Amaro Jr. and Pat Gillick met separately with Twins GM Terry Ryan this morning, tweets MLB.com's Todd Zolecki (https://twitter.com/ToddZolecki/statuses/276720805281411072).
The Braves are interested and have spoken to the Twins about Revere, tweets David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (https://twitter.com/ajcbraves/statuses/276727337557577728).



Here's to hoping it happens!

Otwins
12-06-2012, 11:08 AM
I would add Tyler Cloyd to that list. He pitched pretty well when he was called up last year

gunnarthor
12-06-2012, 11:09 AM
The Phillies are seriously cray-cray. Their TOP choice for CF is Ben Revere????

He's a pretty good player. Nearly a 3.5 WAR player last year in 124 games. Only 25, under team control until 2018. Good fit for Phillies who are getting old, are slow and have a lot of big contracts.

mikeee
12-06-2012, 11:12 AM
MLB Rumours just stated that the Phillies have acquired Revere.

Riverbrian
12-06-2012, 11:12 AM
On this topic... My interest meter is pegging. I'll be sad to see him go but all for it if it brings back a decent arm.

Edit: Just checked MLB Trade Rumors... They are saying it's done... Revere to Philly... They haven't revealed what we got in return.

mikeee
12-06-2012, 11:13 AM
http://zozone.mlblogs.com/2012/12/06/sources-phillies-acquire-revere/

Sources: Phillies Acquire Revere The Phillies will not leave the Winter Meetings empty handed.
Multiple sources confirmed to MLB.com this morning the Phillies have acquired outfielder Ben Revere in a trade with the Minnesota Twins. It is unclear who the Phillies have sent to the Twins as part of the trade, but the Twins have been looking for pitching.
Revere hit .294 with 13 doubles, six triples, 32 RBIs, 40 stolen bases and 70 runs scored in 511 at-bats last season. He also carried a .333 on-base percentage and a .342 slugging percentage.
“If they get him, based on what’s available, they did all right,” one high-ranking American League executive said this morning. “He’s a solid average player. That’s how I look at him. He’s above average defensively. He can run. My biggest question, considering his size (5-foot-9, 170 pounds), is if he can play 145, 150 games. But he puts the ball in play better than I thought he would.”
An official announcement could come later today.

Brock Beauchamp
12-06-2012, 11:13 AM
MLB Rumours just stated that the Phillies have acquired Revere.

Holy crap. My excitement is through the roof.

Buddy14
12-06-2012, 11:14 AM
https://twitter.com/ToddZolecki/status/276735383616778240 done

mikeee
12-06-2012, 11:15 AM
It says the Twins were interested in Vance Worley.

TwinsFanInPhilly
12-06-2012, 11:17 AM
Knobler speculates Vanimal plus prospect

WIP talking Andy Reid right now

Buddy14
12-06-2012, 11:17 AM
always thought ben was average at best. seems like a nice guy and I'm sure he'll do well as most players do when they leave the Twins. I am kind of excited to see if they dig into the minor leagues a little early. I'm all for it. If you can't compete this year start getting these guys some experience before 2014-2015 to work the kinks out a little bit. Maybe?

deanlambrecht
12-06-2012, 11:20 AM
mlbtr reporting it's Worley! http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/phillies-acquire-ben-revere.html

notoriousgod71
12-06-2012, 11:22 AM
Sounds like it's Worley and possibly a prospect.

While I'm concerned about his elbow, Worley's K/9 and HR/9 are pretty good. I have to think (hope) his struggles the last two months were due to his elbow and that he's recovered.

TwinsFanInPhilly
12-06-2012, 11:27 AM
Vanimal plus Trevor May?

notoriousgod71
12-06-2012, 11:27 AM
Trevor May?

BA #69 prospect?

That alone seems like it would have been enough for Revere.

joeboo_22
12-06-2012, 11:29 AM
Very good return for Revere, I'd start shopping Willingham right now as well.

revdrev
12-06-2012, 11:39 AM
Sounds like it's Worley and possibly a prospect.

While I'm concerned about his elbow, Worley's K/9 and HR/9 are pretty good. I have to think (hope) his struggles the last two months were due to his elbow and that he's recovered.

http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-24/sports/31826963_1_vance-worley-tommy-john-surgery-ulnar-collateral-ligament

revdrev
12-06-2012, 11:40 AM
Oh and look at this article
http://www.nj.com/thunder/index.ssf/2012/07/top_philadelphia_phillies_pros.html

revdrev
12-06-2012, 11:41 AM
and this
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1162706-philadelphia-phillies-is-trevor-may-a-trade-chip-or-a-building-block

70charger
12-06-2012, 12:26 PM
ESPN called it for Vance Worley AND Trevor May! http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8720706/philadelphia-phillies-get-ben-revere-minnesota-twins-play-cf

Helluva return!

Props to twinstalker, btw.

nokomismod
12-06-2012, 01:04 PM
This is very nice now that I see May is included. I was concerned that we were just getting Worley and he would need TJ within a year.

I tend to think Ben is a better player than many folks here think. I might be wrong, but I think he will continue to improve his BA...still a good trade for both teams.