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View Full Version : Here's An Idea - Twins acquire Santana and R.A. Dickey



Knotholemike
12-05-2012, 07:36 PM
Whether you believe the Twins can compete in 2013 or not would it be crazy to acquire Johan Santana and R.A. Dickey from the Mets? From the Twins perspective they would get at least one top of the rotation pitcher and possibly two if Santana regains his form after several years of injuries. Neither is signed to a long-term contract, though a 2-year, say $30M extension to Dickey would not necessarily be ridiculous. From the Mets perspective they would be trading a valuable commodity, a top-flight pitcher, but they would also be dumping about $31.5M in obligations for 2013 and $5.5M in obligations for 2014. Why it works: for the Twins these two pitchers would make them competitive in 2013 without breaking the bank as their payroll would rise to about $102M, maybe $105M+ if they signed yet another FA pitcher. They could take on that extra salary knowing this big splash would probably sell enough tickets to cushion the increase. For 2014, the additional payroll obligations - Dickey and a Santana buyout or extension - would be offset by the salaries of Blackburn ($5.5M) and Morneau ($15M) coming off the books. For the Mets, they get much needed breathing room to reset and rebuild for 2014 and beyond. Can it be done? The Twins may have to throw in a prospect or two to sweeten the deal and it might take a fairly good one that could help the Mets in say 2015. The deal would not compromise the Twins' flexibility and it might make them really competitive in their division in 2013.

CC7
12-05-2012, 07:40 PM
no thank you

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-05-2012, 07:40 PM
No thanks.

diehardtwinsfan
12-05-2012, 07:41 PM
I'll trade Guerra back for Santana...

glunn
12-05-2012, 07:48 PM
Whether you believe the Twins can compete in 2013 or not would it be crazy to acquire Johan Santana and R.A. Dickey from the Mets? From the Twins perspective they would get at least one top of the rotation pitcher and possibly two if Santana regains his form after several years of injuries. Neither is signed to a long-term contract, though a 2-year, say $30M extension to Dickey would not necessarily be ridiculous. From the Mets perspective they would be trading a valuable commodity, a top-flight pitcher, but they would also be dumping about $31.5M in obligations for 2013 and $5.5M in obligations for 2014. Why it works: for the Twins these two pitchers would make them competitive in 2013 without breaking the bank as their payroll would rise to about $102M, maybe $105M+ if they signed yet another FA pitcher. They could take on that extra salary knowing this big splash would probably sell enough tickets to cushion the increase. For 2014, the additional payroll obligations - Dickey and a Santana buyout or extension - would be offset by the salaries of Blackburn ($5.5M) and Morneau ($15M) coming off the books. For the Mets, they get much needed breathing room to reset and rebuild for 2014 and beyond. Can it be done? The Twins may have to throw in a prospect or two to sweeten the deal and it might take a fairly good one that could help the Mets in say 2015. The deal would not compromise the Twins' flexibility and it might make them really competitive in their division in 2013.

Obviously this would be risky, but it seems worth thinking about. I would love to have Santana back and Dickey won the NL Cy Young last year. BUT I suspect that the Mets could do better elsewhere, unless the Twins are willing to give up one or two of their top prospects.

Knotholemike
12-05-2012, 07:49 PM
So you want to see more of Luis Perdomo, Samuel Deduno, Cole Devries, etc.?

Knotholemike
12-05-2012, 07:53 PM
The trade-off for the Mets is that they can't get both salary relief and top prospects. Remember, they are still paying Bernie Madoff's victims. Money is still tight; not by design but by necessity. Maybe the Twins would have to part with a Berrios, but maybe not.

Fire Dan Gladden
12-05-2012, 07:53 PM
I would be ok with a Santana and cash (to make salaries match) for Morneau swap. Santana is just too much of a risk to invest any time or money at this point. Trading for Morneau gives you a pitcher that could be great for a player you are not going to resign.

Knotholemike
12-05-2012, 07:55 PM
I'll trade Guerra back for Santana...
I'd throw him in too.

Knotholemike
12-05-2012, 07:57 PM
I would be ok with a Santana and cash (to make salaries match) for Morneau swap. Santana is just too much of a risk to invest any time or money at this point. Trading for Morneau gives you a pitcher that could be great for a player you are not going to resign.
Unfortunately, the Mets are in rebuilding mode so trading Santana for Morneau nets them nothing. With the Nationals, Braves and Phillies all significantly better than the Mets in 2013 and 2014, the Mets would want two things: 1) salary relief; and 2) prospect(s) who could help them in 2015 and beyond.

nicksaviking
12-05-2012, 08:00 PM
I think the Mets would be fools to do so. They would minimize their return for Dickey by forcing Santana's contract. They should be able to get someone useful for Dickey alone. They can afford to bite the bullet on one more year of Santana since they are making no effort to compete this year.

Knotholemike
12-05-2012, 08:07 PM
I think the Mets would be fools to do so. They would minimize their return for Dickey by forcing Santana's contract. They should be able to get someone useful for Dickey alone. They can afford to bite the bullet on one more year of Santana since they are making no effort to compete this year.
They might be able to "afford" one more year of Santana, but they would be fools to do so. They will NOT be able to compete with the Nationals, Phillies or Braves over the next two years so keeping Santana is like throwing money down a deep hole. If I'm a GM who needs pitching I would be all over them on these two pitchers.

Chance
12-05-2012, 08:18 PM
I would throw in prospects like Harrison and goodrum along with benson to get the deal done. I thought this post was going to be ridiculous but really it makes total sense to me. The mets have to get rid of the salaries and if they can get some b to c prospects I'm sure they would dumb dickey to make it happen. Getting rid of Santana's contract is worth more to the mets than most people are assuming.

Joe
12-05-2012, 08:37 PM
I would throw in prospects like Harrison and goodrum along with benson to get the deal done. I thought this post was going to be ridiculous but really it makes total sense to me. The mets have to get rid of the salaries and if they can get some b to c prospects I'm sure they would dumb dickey to make it happen. Getting rid of Santana's contract is worth more to the mets than most people are assuming.

Haha. I'm assuming this is complete snark.

Seriously, I miss BYTO.

Top Gun
12-05-2012, 08:40 PM
I would throw in Blackburn to his contract is getting cheaper every day.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-05-2012, 08:52 PM
I would only do it if the Twins could bring in A-Rod as well, to help give competition for Plouffe at 3B, also maybe a veteran guy like Vernon Wells could help stabilize the FO

Knotholemike
12-05-2012, 09:24 PM
I would only do it if the Twins could bring in A-Rod as well, to help give competition for Plouffe at 3B, also maybe a veteran guy like Vernon Wells could help stabilize the FO
Dumbass

johnnydakota
12-05-2012, 09:35 PM
Actually i suggested this earlier , not the R.A.Dickey part , but signing Liriano and trading for Johan .
with a spanish speaking pitching coach and adding a spanish speaking catcher , reuniting Frankie
with his mentor could add up to catching lightning in a bottle, i would tade some of our top 20 suspects and ask for 22
of the 30 million Santana is owed,as for suspect s, maybe Morales, Salcedo and Hudson Boyd

ashburyjohn
12-05-2012, 09:38 PM
the Mets would want two things: 1) salary relief; and 2) prospect(s) who could help them in 2015 and beyond.

Sound like any team we know?

beckmt
12-05-2012, 09:41 PM
I would throw in prospects like Harrison and goodrum along with benson to get the deal done. I thought this post was going to be ridiculous but really it makes total sense to me. The mets have to get rid of the salaries and if they can get some b to c prospects I'm sure they would dumb dickey to make it happen. Getting rid of Santana's contract is worth more to the mets than most people are assuming.
If this would get it done, go for it. I doubt it, but worse things have happened. We would need to extend DIckey and have the Mets pick up some salary. But just getting Santana for some C prospects and Blackburn is a thought

johnnydakota
12-05-2012, 10:04 PM
I would be ok with a Santana and cash (to make salaries match) for Morneau swap. Santana is just too much of a risk to invest any time or money at this point. Trading for Morneau gives you a pitcher that could be great for a player you are not going to resign.

ok who then plays 1st and who plays right field?

Saul Goodman
12-05-2012, 10:53 PM
2810

Rosterman
12-05-2012, 11:13 PM
Dickey is a strange case. He's a bargain for 2013 at $5 million. Would I bother extending him, no. I got him for $5. He is also a nice trade chip if someone wants him. If he pitches great and you still got him, trade bait in July. Yes, he is a knuckleballer, but he is also ancient. I could think of better ways to spend $20-25 million over the next two years. I would love to see Santana return to the Twins. At what price? A couple of prospects. But having the Mets eat too much salary, you might as well keep him yourself, then.

jctwins
12-05-2012, 11:22 PM
I would throw in prospects like Harrison and goodrum along with benson to get the deal done. I thought this post was going to be ridiculous but really it makes total sense to me. The mets have to get rid of the salaries and if they can get some b to c prospects I'm sure they would dumb dickey to make it happen. Getting rid of Santana's contract is worth more to the mets than most people are assuming.

Haha. I'm assuming this is complete snark.

Seriously, I miss BYTO.

That which we do not speak of.

Top Gun
12-06-2012, 01:05 AM
It would be great for the fans, help the young pitchers and put ass in the seats too. The Twins would come out smelling like a rose!

Shane Wahl
12-06-2012, 01:20 AM
The Mets would demand a top 5 prospect and a top 10 prospect to start things off. This is not going to happen.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-06-2012, 06:13 AM
It should be noted that dickey is coming off a Cy Young winning season, I'm pretty sure guys like that don't get traded for peanuts.... Just ask frank viola and the 1991 World Series champion Minnesota Twins

old nurse
12-06-2012, 06:47 AM
In 1991 Viola was coming off a third place finish for the Cy Young as a Met. It was his final season as a Met and an All Star.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-06-2012, 07:16 AM
I know that I was talking about who the twins got in that trade to help them win it all in 91

Knotholemike
12-06-2012, 07:55 AM
The Mets would demand a top 5 prospect and a top 10 prospect to start things off. This is not going to happen.
Not necessarily. The Twins do NOT need salary relief, but the Mets do as they are still paying off Madoff's victims. The Mets can either get salary relief, top prospects, or some combination, but not both. As I pointed out in the original post the only obligation for the Twins is $35M over the next 2 years. They might have to part with a couple of prospects but not necessarily a top 5, not if they are taking on all of Santana's $25.5M salary. One of the Twins' outfield prospects would probably have to be part of any deal.

old nurse
12-06-2012, 07:59 AM
@SVD (better than an STD) What the Twins got for Viola
A pitcher that the Twins could have gotten for a low level prospect that they turned into a closer. A pitcher with an undistinguished Milb record that had a great three year run and three stiffs.

Fire Dan Gladden
12-06-2012, 08:30 AM
@SVD (better than an STD) What the Twins got for Viola
A pitcher that the Twins could have gotten for a low level prospect that they turned into a closer. A pitcher with an undistinguished Milb record that had a great three year run and three stiffs.

Wow. How soon we forget. David West was a highly coveted (maybe the most coveted) prospect/young pitcher at the time. Aguilera was a solid #3/4 starter at the time. Tapani was an upper prospect. Drummond and Savage were throw ins.

A solid starter, 2 high end prospects, and 2 low end prospects is a pretty good haul for a B+ pitcher (Slightly below the Clemens/Maddux level at the time) at the trade deadline.

Fire Dan Gladden
12-06-2012, 08:34 AM
I would be ok with a Santana and cash (to make salaries match) for Morneau swap. Santana is just too much of a risk to invest any time or money at this point. Trading for Morneau gives you a pitcher that could be great for a player you are not going to resign.

ok who then plays 1st and who plays right field?

Umm... 1B and RF would be manned by Parmalee, Doumit, Mauer, Mastroianni, and probably Hicks in some combination.

old nurse
12-06-2012, 08:55 AM
@SVD (better than an STD) What the Twins got for Viola
A pitcher that the Twins could have gotten for a low level prospect that they turned into a closer. A pitcher with an undistinguished Milb record that had a great three year run and three stiffs.

Wow. How soon we forget. David West was a highly coveted (maybe the most coveted) prospect/young pitcher at the time. Aguilera was a solid #3/4 starter at the time. Tapani was an upper prospect. Drummond and Savage were throw ins.

A solid starter, 2 high end prospects, and 2 low end prospects is a pretty good haul for a B+ pitcher (Slightly below the Clemens/Maddux level at the time) at the trade deadline.

Aggie was not considered a solid starter. If he was, they would not have converted him to a reliever. He was going back and forth between the rotation and bullpen in New York after some early success .
In the Times archives, West was cosidered the prize. Tapani and Savage had been filler in earlier trades.

Fire Dan Gladden
12-09-2012, 12:44 AM
@SVD (better than an STD) What the Twins got for Viola
A pitcher that the Twins could have gotten for a low level prospect that they turned into a closer. A pitcher with an undistinguished Milb record that had a great three year run and three stiffs.

Wow. How soon we forget. David West was a highly coveted (maybe the most coveted) prospect/young pitcher at the time. Aguilera was a solid #3/4 starter at the time. Tapani was an upper prospect. Drummond and Savage were throw ins.

A solid starter, 2 high end prospects, and 2 low end prospects is a pretty good haul for a B+ pitcher (Slightly below the Clemens/Maddux level at the time) at the trade deadline.

Aggie was not considered a solid starter. If he was, they would not have converted him to a reliever. He was going back and forth between the rotation and bullpen in New York after some early success .
In the Times archives, West was cosidered the prize. Tapani and Savage had been filler in earlier trades.

You are so wrong I don't even know where to start. Here is the transaction via BR:

July 31, 1989: Traded by the Minnesota Twins (http://twinsdaily.com/teams/MIN/1989.shtml) to the New York Mets (http://twinsdaily.com/teams/NYM/1989.shtml) for a player to be named later, Rick Aguilera (http://twinsdaily.com/players/a/aguilri01.shtml), Tim Drummond (http://twinsdaily.com/players/d/drummti01.shtml), Kevin Tapani (http://twinsdaily.com/players/t/tapanke01.shtml) and David West (http://twinsdaily.com/players/w/westda01.shtml). The New York Mets (http://twinsdaily.com/teams/NYM/1989.shtml) sent Jack Savage (http://twinsdaily.com/players/s/savagja01.shtml) (October 16, 1989) to the Minnesota Twins (http://twinsdaily.com/teams/MIN/1989.shtml) to complete the trade.

Tapani and Savage were part of this trade. Tapani a big part. You are correct in that, at the time, West was considered the prize.

1985-87 Aguilera was a combined 31-17, with an ERA around 3.50. He was hurt in 1988, in 1989 he was partially in the pen out of necessity for the Mets, when he came to the Twins he was a FT starter. It wasn't until that offseason, when the Jeff Reardon left as a FA that Aguilera was asked to become the closer. At the time, he strongly resisted the move. He didn't want to do it. Lucky for us, he took to it pretty well.

Next time get your facts straight.

jimbo92107
12-09-2012, 01:32 AM
So you want to see more of Luis Perdomo, Samuel Deduno, Cole Devries, etc.?

Not Perdomo, but I had fun watching some of the Twins pitchers last season, especially Deduno and DeVries. Both guys were able to apply pressure to opponents in their own ways. Now you've got Diamond, Worley, Gibson, Hendriks, and maybe Hernandez vying for rotation spots along with DeVries and Deduno. I don't mind what I see here. Pitching is always going to be a crap shoot at the bargain basement level.

FrodaddyG
12-09-2012, 02:49 AM
Wow. Just wow.

glunn
12-09-2012, 03:02 PM
Santana and Liriano back together on the Twins? If they could each get back to 90% of their prior greatness, then the Twins would have two aces. They are both long shots to pitch well, but there would be at least a chance of a magical season.