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twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 01:00 PM
I'm curious. Who thinks Meyer will be a member of Twins rotation during the 2013 season? And I mean before September.

Also, who thinks the FO actually expects that he will make it to the rotation during 2013? I'm talking about a July or August call-up here.

I personally think yes on both accounts.

ThePuck
12-05-2012, 01:03 PM
I'm curious. Who thinks Meyer will be a member of Twins rotation during the 2013 season? And I mean before September.

Also, who thinks the FO actually expects that he will make it to the rotation during 2013? I'm talking about a July or August call-up here.

I personally think yes on both accounts.

Nope

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-05-2012, 01:05 PM
I'm thinking no way.

Meyer isn't "to far" off, but he still has to work on a few things before he is major league ready.
1. He needs to fix his mechanics, hopefully this doesn't take to long, but it will take some time.
2. He needs to work on his accuracy.
3. He needs to continue to develop his change up.

The good news is he has already shown quite a bit of progression in regards to #2 and #3

Also, the Twins have zero real need to try to rush him.

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 01:09 PM
Nope, that would start his arbitration clock too fast. This team is all about money. Does not matter if he is the best pitcher in the organization next year or not, he will not be up. Not that I think he will be the best, just that it does not matter.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-05-2012, 01:10 PM
I'm curious. Who thinks Meyer will be a member of Twins rotation during the 2013 season? And I mean before September.

Also, who thinks the FO actually expects that he will make it to the rotation during 2013? I'm talking about a July or August call-up here.

I personally think yes on both accounts.

Nope

I agree with Puck...nope

twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 01:12 PM
Nope, that would start his arbitration clock too fast. This team is all about money. Does not matter if he is the heat pitcher in the organization next year or not, he will not be up. Not that I think he will be the best, just that it does not matter.

There is a point after June in which call-ups would not be counted as having a year if service time. There is super 2s, but still, a guy can get called up and pitch in the majors without it moving his Arbitration eligibility any closer than if he had spent the whole year in the minors.

Oxtung
12-05-2012, 01:18 PM
Amazing the difference in timelines people have. I'm under the assumption that Meyer won't be handed a rotation spot until mid-2014. This isn't a guy who is some polished college pitcher like Gibson was. As Rocketpig said, he has struggled with mechanics and control. Also there is little reason to rush him. Either the Twins are going to sign some real pitchers this year, in which case there shouldn't be a need to rush Meyer, or we're going to be absolutely terrible, in which case there still is no need to rush Meyer because he will make little impact on the Twins trajectory this year. Rushing Meyer just starts his clock a year sooner when he isn't needed.

twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 01:20 PM
I'm thinking no way.

Meyer isn't "to far" off, but he still has to work on a few things before he is major league ready.
1. He needs to fix his mechanics, hopefully this doesn't take to long, but it will take some time.
2. He needs to work on his accuracy.
3. He needs to continue to develop his change up.

The good news is he has already shown quite a bit of progression in regards to #2 and #3

Also, the Twins have zero real need to try to rush him.

Going into this year Meyer will be older and have more professional innings logged than Matt Garzas had/was in 2006, the year he was called up.
He will be a month older going into this season than Liam Hendricks was going into last season.

Every area of concern that you cited are things he has improved on steadily every year since he was a sophomore in college.

If he dominates AA through May and AAA through June he will get called up in July. Terry Ryan actually said as much on the day they made the trade.

Boom Boom
12-05-2012, 01:23 PM
If Meyer is up with the major league team in 2013, it won't be until September when they won't need to burn an option year to have him up.

I don't think we'll see him until June of 2014 at the very earliest.

And that's hoping against hope that his elbow doesn't explode in the meantime.

ashburyjohn
12-05-2012, 01:29 PM
AAs Rocketpig said, he has struggled with mechanics and control.

I think it's also been said he lacks a reliable third pitch that you want a front-line starter to have, which additional time may allow to develop.

twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 01:30 PM
If Meyer is up with the major league team in 2013, it won't be until September when they won't need to burn an option year to have him up.

I don't think we'll see him until June of 2014 at the very earliest.

I don't agree with that. I don't think they see Meyer as a guy that will roll through all his options. They see him as a guy who will stick once he arrives, so the options are a moot point.

ThePuck
12-05-2012, 01:32 PM
If he dominates AA through May and AAA through June he will get called up in July. Terry Ryan actually said as much on the day they made the trade.

There's no guarantees he even starts this season in AA. Ryan hasn't committed to where he'll be placed yet. We won't see him with the Twins this regular season

twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 01:34 PM
If he dominates AA through May and AAA through June he will get called up in July. Terry Ryan actually said as much on the day they made the trade.

There's no guarantees he even starts this season in AA. Ryan hasn't committed to where he'll be placed yet. We won't see him with the Twins this regular season

There is no guarantees. But he will probably start at Double A. Is there a lot pitching blocking him in this organization?

beckmt
12-05-2012, 01:35 PM
I think it will be next year. Need to fix mechanics will slow him this year. Also Twins do not need to rush him this year if he is here next year.

nicksaviking
12-05-2012, 01:35 PM
Bret Myers? 20% chance.
Alex Myer? 0% chance.

You don't f around with service time with a Scott Boras advised power pitcher. He will be up no sooner than June 2014, nor should he be.

twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 01:37 PM
AAs Rocketpig said, he has struggled with mechanics and control.

I think it's also been said he lacks a reliable third pitch that you want a front-line starter to have, which additional time may allow to develop.

From Keith Law: "his changeup has improved to the point where it's probably a future-average pitch"

Again, it's something he has improved on steadily. But me, I think because he mostly throws a hard fastball that sinks and tails to the glove side, he can get by as primarily a two pitch starter with a hard slider that breaks the opposite way and gets rave reviews.

twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 01:41 PM
Bret Myers? 20% chance.
Alex Myer? 0% chance.

You don't f around with service time with a Scott Boras advised power pitcher. He will be up no sooner than June 2014, nor should he be.

Point taken on Boras.

birdwatcher
12-05-2012, 01:44 PM
mww, this "all about money" stuff is such hogwash. If Meyer was ready, he'd start the season with the big club, period.

We've been given no indications that he's ready.

Oxtung
12-05-2012, 01:45 PM
If he dominates AA through May and AAA through June he will get called up in July. Terry Ryan actually said as much on the day they made the trade.

There's no guarantees he even starts this season in AA. Ryan hasn't committed to where he'll be placed yet. We won't see him with the Twins this regular season

But come that 1 game playoff series he'll be ready! He'll be ready. :th_alc:

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 01:47 PM
You really believe money plays no factor in their decisions? I think we will disagree on that point......still hoping

Twins Twerp
12-05-2012, 01:47 PM
Amazing the difference in timelines people have. I'm under the assumption that Meyer won't be handed a rotation spot until mid-2014. This isn't a guy who is some polished college pitcher like Gibson was. As Rocketpig said, he has struggled with mechanics and control. Also there is little reason to rush him. Either the Twins are going to sign some real pitchers this year, in which case there shouldn't be a need to rush Meyer, or we're going to be absolutely terrible, in which case there still is no need to rush Meyer because he will make little impact on the Twins trajectory this year. Rushing Meyer just starts his clock a year sooner when he isn't needed.

I am also under this impression. The guy had 7 games at high A last year. SEVEN. Lets allow him some developmental time before we throw him out there. The question shouldn't be 2013, it should be whether or not we throw him out during 2014 at all.

twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 01:57 PM
mww, this "all about money" stuff is such hogwash. If Meyer was ready, he'd start the season with the big club, period.

We've been given no indications that he's ready.

I would count this report from LEN3rd as an indication that the Twins think he is close to ready:

"Twins General Manager Terry Ryan didn't sound interested in bringing Meyer along slowly. "We'll let the pitcher dictate his ability to go through a system," Ryan said. "This guy is a power-type pitcher who throws it over. That equates to someone who should be able to do some things in the minor leagues and get up here.""

http://m.startribune.com/?id=181628701

ThePuck
12-05-2012, 01:57 PM
If he dominates AA through May and AAA through June he will get called up in July. Terry Ryan actually said as much on the day they made the trade.

There's no guarantees he even starts this season in AA. Ryan hasn't committed to where he'll be placed yet. We won't see him with the Twins this regular season

But come that 1 game playoff series he'll be ready! He'll be ready. :th_alc:

That was funny! I guess I made a point of saying regular season because if, for some reason, he's with them in Spring Training someone inevitably says something like, 'well, technically, he wore a Twins jersey during a game.' You know how things go :-)

twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 02:01 PM
Another point I will make here is that I think saying he is "struggling" with his mechanics is not an accurate characterization. I think saying that being consistent with his mechanics is not one of his strengths would be a more accurate description, from what I have read. One thing, he certainly did not "struggle" with his control last year, so his mechanics did not effect that.

ThePuck
12-05-2012, 02:02 PM
mww, this "all about money" stuff is such hogwash. If Meyer was ready, he'd start the season with the big club, period.

We've been given no indications that he's ready.

I would count this report from LEN3rd as an indication that the Twins think he is close to ready:

"Twins General Manager Terry Ryan didn't sound interested in bringing Meyer along slowly. "We'll let the pitcher dictate his ability to go through a system," Ryan said. "This guy is a power-type pitcher who throws it over. That equates to someone who should be able to do some things in the minor leagues and get up here.""

http://m.startribune.com/?id=181628701

Sounds like you have it all figured out

Oxtung
12-05-2012, 02:06 PM
mww, this "all about money" stuff is such hogwash. If Meyer was ready, he'd start the season with the big club, period.

We've been given no indications that he's ready.

I would count this report from LEN3rd as an indication that the Twins think he is close to ready:

"Twins General Manager Terry Ryan didn't sound interested in bringing Meyer along slowly. "We'll let the pitcher dictate his ability to go through a system," Ryan said. "This guy is a power-type pitcher who throws it over. That equates to someone who should be able to do some things in the minor leagues and get up here.""

http://m.startribune.com/?id=181628701

That quote means next to nothing with regards to MLB ETA. He is simply saying that the Twins will let Meyer's pitching in the minors determine how quickly Meyer moves up. Which just leads back to your (the general you, not twinsfaninsaudi you) personal assumption about how quickly Meyer will show he is ready to move. Twinsfaninsaudi seems to think Meyer is going to dominate at each stop and so will progress quickly. Others think he will struggle enough with his mechanics, whether that is because the Twins want to tweak them or just because he is 6'9" tall, and therefore won't rise rapidly.

twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 02:13 PM
mww, this "all about money" stuff is such hogwash. If Meyer was ready, he'd start the season with the big club, period.

We've been given no indications that he's ready.

I would count this report from LEN3rd as an indication that the Twins think he is close to ready:

"Twins General Manager Terry Ryan didn't sound interested in bringing Meyer along slowly. "We'll let the pitcher dictate his ability to go through a system," Ryan said. "This guy is a power-type pitcher who throws it over. That equates to someone who should be able to do some things in the minor leagues and get up here.""

http://m.startribune.com/?id=181628701

Sounds like you have it all figured out

Thank you.

twinsfaninsaudi
12-05-2012, 02:15 PM
mww, this "all about money" stuff is such hogwash. If Meyer was ready, he'd start the season with the big club, period.

We've been given no indications that he's ready.

I would count this report from LEN3rd as an indication that the Twins think he is close to ready:

"Twins General Manager Terry Ryan didn't sound interested in bringing Meyer along slowly. "We'll let the pitcher dictate his ability to go through a system," Ryan said. "This guy is a power-type pitcher who throws it over. That equates to someone who should be able to do some things in the minor leagues and get up here.""

http://m.startribune.com/?id=181628701

That quote means next to nothing with regards to MLB ETA. He is simply saying that the Twins will let Meyer's pitching in the minors determine how quickly Meyer moves up. Which just leads back to your (the general you, not twinsfaninsaudi you) personal assumption about how quickly Meyer will show he is ready to move. Twinsfaninsaudi seems to think Meyer is going to dominate at each stop and so will progress quickly. Others think he will struggle enough with his mechanics, whether that is because the Twins want to tweak them or just because he is 6'9" tall, and therefore won't rise rapidly.

Yes, you are correct. At the end of the day, I am going on a hunch that he will dominate.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-05-2012, 02:20 PM
Bret Myers? 20% chance.
Alex Myer? 0% chance.

You don't f around with service time with a Scott Boras advised power pitcher. He will be up no sooner than June 2014, nor should he be.

Money money money....money! Exactly right....F@#! Boras

ScottyB
12-05-2012, 02:46 PM
Bret Myers? 20% chance.
Alex Myer? 0% chance.

You don't f around with service time with a Scott Boras advised power pitcher. He will be up no sooner than June 2014, nor should he be.

Money money money....money! Exactly right....F@#! Boras

Nick's right - with only 7 starts at high A, Twins will start him at Ft. Meyers. He'll spend most of next season at New Britain (AA), about a half dozen games at Rochester (AAA). He'll start 2014 at Rochester and arrive in June at Target Field. We're going to suck in 2013, why waste any of the six years we're going to have him when we have no chance? And yes, we won't have him longer than six years with Boris as his agent, so start thinking who we can trade him for at the deadline in 2019.

By the way, even though I'm ScottyB - don't confuse me with that ******* agent.

Seth Stohs
12-05-2012, 03:10 PM
I think that Meyer starts 2013 in Ft. Myers, makes maybe 6-8 starts there and moves up to New Britain. He'll make at least a dozen starts there before even considering AAA. Frankly, it wouldn't be terrible for him to spend the rest of the season in New Britain. 2014, he'll get a spring training invite (since he doesn't have to be added to the 40 man roster until after the 2014 season). He'll go to Rochester and basically be called up whenever he is ready.

Boras, or whoever the agent is, it is wise to think about when players are called up. If the Twins wait a month into the 2014 season to call him up, he will get four years of arbitration (as a Super 2), but he won't be a free agent until after the 2020 season. If they wait until late June of 2014, he will likely not be a Super 2, pitch an extra season at a team-friendly price, get 3 years of arbitration and then be a free agent after the 2020 season. If they have him up all of 2014, he becomes a free agent after the 2019 season. If we can't be patient for a month or two, as life-long, die-hard Twins fans for something that makes so much sense, I don't know what to tell you.

Parmelee and Hendriks made the Opening Day roster in 2012. Dozier was called up before May. These guys may not be in Gibson or Meyers prospect status, but it shows that they don't always make decisions based on finances.

Nick Nelson
12-05-2012, 03:13 PM
There's no way we can even speculate on this until we see how he handles the higher levels of the minors. There's a good chance he could get shelled initially in Double-A, and that wouldn't necessarily be cause for panic. If he transitions smoothly, I wouldn't rule out a call-up this year. Twins have shown plenty of willingness to be aggressive with college pitchers in the past.

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 03:14 PM
So according to Seth, it is at least partly about money....

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 03:16 PM
There was zero risk of Dozier or Parmalee becoming super 2 or expensive.....not the way they used Chris, and not the talent Brian has.

Twins Twerp
12-05-2012, 03:32 PM
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKGOGnWrAgPAxr5g_nlByZfmvmHltRL 6Z5Sd5WJ6mlp_CW6VgB https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-xTymk4G43BRSv_OriR_Ug6xwe8l7PvZ2hUZ4yY4h0ycUGNzdqg

Super 2 status? Is this why Antony Slama hasn't been called up. Makes sense. It is always about the money with the Twins...FREE SLAMA!!!

P.S. Is it just me or does this Jamie Kennedy guy look a lot like Anthony Slama?

LaBombo
12-05-2012, 04:05 PM
What Seth said. Having Meyer force the issue by dominating A+ and AA hitters is a problem the Twins would love to have, but it's hard to see them handing Boras the reins a year early to get an extra month or two out of a guy who will need to have most things break right just to get a taste of AAA before the 2013 minor league season ends.

Bottom line: If he's good enough to pitch here in 2014, I'll be so happy that the trade (which I liked even though I'm a Span fan) worked out that I can't imagine caring whether he pitches only 4 months instead of all year.

LaBombo
12-05-2012, 04:12 PM
P.S. Is it just me or does this Jamie Kennedy guy look a lot like Anthony Slama?

Whoa, what happened to JK? Pretty good match. Best I could find was this guy:
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/David-McCarty-Twins-Signed-Autographed-8x10-Photo-/00/$%28KGrHqMOKjUE2zMhJN-WBN%29dn-%28Epw%7E%7E_35.JPG
Actually, without the uniform, McCarty wouldn't look like him at all, it's just a fun excuse to remember Kelly's Jersey tough guy putdown: "Stanford? Well boola boola boola!" I don't really even know what that means, other than Kelly didn't like him very much, even before it turned out he couldn't hit.

darin617
12-05-2012, 04:17 PM
He has to learn the "Twins way" of pitching before he earns any promotion. In other words dial back the fastball to the low 90's and start pitching to contact. So sad that they will ruin his chances becoming a possible top of the rotation starter.

Seth Stohs
12-05-2012, 04:20 PM
So according to Seth, it is at least partly about money....

I certainly think that it should be. I'm sure it's case by case too... but there's no way I'd give up a full-year of a player if I don't have to. Most may prove not worth the hassle, but for the great talents, I'd sure like an extra year. (although the Twins do a pretty good job of locking up players that are worthwhile (and some that aren't) through a free agent year too (Mauer, Santana, Morneau, Cuddyer, Hunter, several others)

Seth Stohs
12-05-2012, 04:23 PM
There's no way we can even speculate on this until we see how he handles the higher levels of the minors. There's a good chance he could get shelled initially in Double-A, and that wouldn't necessarily be cause for panic. If he transitions smoothly, I wouldn't rule out a call-up this year. Twins have shown plenty of willingness to be aggressive with college pitchers in the past.

This, of course, is also very true. The Twins will promote based on earning it. They definitely have a track record of being willing to have college pitchers move 3 levels in one year (Gibson, Baker, Crain, Duensing, Darnell) and even four levels in one year (Garza in '06).

Seth Stohs
12-05-2012, 04:28 PM
So according to Seth, it is at least partly about money....

I certainly think that it should be. I'm sure it's case by case too... but there's no way I'd give up a full-year of a player if I don't have to. Most may prove not worth the hassle, but for the great talents, I'd sure like an extra year. (although the Twins do a pretty good job of locking up players that are worthwhile (and some that aren't) through a free agent year too (Mauer, Santana, Morneau, Cuddyer, Hunter, several others)

let me add Mike... For me, it's not about the money, it's about keeping a player a full extra ceiling if he's worth it. Four-year Arbitration guys make a lot of money too if they're good.

Brock Beauchamp
12-05-2012, 04:32 PM
He has to learn the "Twins way" of pitching before he earns any promotion. In other words dial back the fastball to the low 90's and start pitching to contact. So sad that they will ruin his chances becoming a possible top of the rotation starter.

Just like Johan Santana and Francisco Liriano?

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 04:58 PM
Money and years are the same to me....the issue is can you keep him or not, and that is largely money driven. Because even if he is awesome, you can still offer him a ton of money to keep him.

messed up
12-05-2012, 04:58 PM
Let's just hope Meyer progresses and get through AA this year

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 05:01 PM
Good point messedup....

Twins Twerp
12-05-2012, 05:08 PM
Other teams do the same thing with there guys, especially a Boras guy. Your God damn right its about the money. It is about getting an extra year out of a guy. What would you rather have: a full season of Meyer in 2013 or 2014 as a rookie learning the ropes and a free agent/trade candidate in 2017? Or a guy who plays half of 2014 (hopefully in a pennant race) and then a free agent/trade candidate in 2020? I would take the latter wouldn't you? I hope that we can't sign this guy long term because it means he maxed out his potential. Who knows, maybe a small market fan ENDS Boras...if you know what I'm saying ;)

Jim H
12-05-2012, 05:40 PM
I think there is a fair chance Meyer dominates at AA and gets to AAA in 2013. Garza dominated at those levels throwing nothing but fastballs. That was actually a point of contention. Even if he does, I still don't think we see Meyer in the majors until 2014. The Twins are going to have a hard time pushing a kid that young close to 200 innings. Or even 180. I suspect that it would take a special situation to see him with the Twins in 2013.