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Parker Hageman
12-04-2012, 10:59 PM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?1224-Could-the-Twins-still-trade-Ben-Revere

glunn
12-04-2012, 11:33 PM
I was truly looking forward to seeing Revere play CF all year. I love his hustle and his range. But if the price is right, maybe it makes sense to go with Hicks.

What if Hicks bombs? Who would take over CF then? Benson?

Fanatic Jack
12-04-2012, 11:40 PM
I would consider the Cincinnati Reds a better trade partner than the Atlanta Braves. The Braves just signed B.J. Upton and are looking for a corner outfielder. I have to believe that now is a great time to trade Revere because CF's are at a premium and going off the market fast. If the Twins traded Revere for a starting pitcher they could always start Darin Mastroanni until Hicks or Benson was ready. The Twins might have the best outfield prospects in the majors with Benson, Buxton, Hicks, Arcia, and Rosario. Also don't forget about Nate Roberts who was terrific in the AFL.

Top Gun
12-04-2012, 11:47 PM
Jon Paul Morosi of FOXSports.com hears that the Twins might consider trading Ben Revere.

It would be a strange move, given that they just cleared room in center field for Revere by dealing Denard Span. Even more bizarre is that Morosi says they would be looking for a center fielder in return. Revere has zero power but batted .294 with 40 steals in 2012 and also offers great defense. He's under team control through 2017.

Source: Jon Paul Morosi on Twitter (https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/276192321849151489)

Kwak
12-04-2012, 11:48 PM
Depends what they are offered for Revere--but I don't think it will be much. He has little ML service time to place trust in--so it would be a "prospect-for-prospect" trade.

Riverbrian
12-05-2012, 12:10 AM
For a pitcher Ok... For an OF'er... That don't make much sense.

Rosterman
12-05-2012, 12:10 AM
It would be the chance for Benson to step up with Hicks in the background at Rochester. Or the Twins could sign some low-end guy LIKE a Juan Pierre. Maybe bring back Delmon, who along with Liriano will make the dugout old home week. Hell, trade for Kubel and/or Cuddyer, too. Bring back Jon Rauch. If the price is right, you go for it...remember Carlos Gomez!!!!!!!!

SportsPageToday.com
12-05-2012, 12:11 AM
I was truly looking forward to seeing Revere play CF all year. I love his hustle and his range. But if the price is right, maybe it makes sense to go with Hicks.

What if Hicks bombs? Who would take over CF then? Benson?

Revere is a great fielder, but Hicks has a few tools that Revere lacks. I would be alright with the trade as long as that what we would get in return would be at least a SP better than the potential free agents that they have been linked to during the beginning of this years winter meetings, not to high on Jurrjens' out there.

nicksaviking
12-05-2012, 12:12 AM
Does moving Span and Revere cause the Twins to consider moving Rosario back to the OF? I hope not, I like him at 2B.

johnnydakota
12-05-2012, 12:20 AM
I was truly looking forward to seeing Revere play CF all year. I love his hustle and his range. But if the price is right, maybe it makes sense to go with Hicks.

What if Hicks bombs? Who would take over CF then? Benson?

Revere is a great fielder, but Hicks has a few tools that Revere lacks. I would be alright with the trade as long as that what we would get in return would be at least a SP better than the potential free agents that they have been linked to during the beginning of this years winter meetings, not to high on Jurrjens' out there.

i would take another high reward prospect in return....building towards 2015

johnnydakota
12-05-2012, 12:23 AM
Or ruf from the phillys

Top Gun
12-05-2012, 12:35 AM
So who needs Ben? Phillies, Reds, Braves?

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-05-2012, 12:46 AM
If we can get a solid minor league pitcher I dont mind this at all. Leave it up to an open competition next year between Hicks/Benson or someone else. 2013 seems like a lost cause...total rebuilding year.

kcm
12-05-2012, 12:54 AM
So who needs Ben? Phillies, Reds, Braves?

The Rays?

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-05-2012, 01:01 AM
So who needs Ben? Phillies, Reds, Braves?

The Rays?

Its tough trading with the Rays though, they have a great front office and they usually know what the hell theyre doing when it comes to trades. Most likely candidates would probably Braves and Reds. Maybe there is a wild card team out there who would like Revere.

Shane Wahl
12-05-2012, 01:22 AM
What the hell? I have to wonder if a Revere-Hermsen-Salcedo package would have worked in place of Span. I would rather have Span. And that would include trading Span later, potentially.

Given the cost, I can't see them trading Revere now, as in this offseason.

I wonder about Gardy's comment. OBVIOUSLY, from the get-go, Morneau was the best trade option. Watch where Hamilton goes, because if he leaves Texas and Michael Young is traded, Morneau would be very appealing to Texas.

Shane Wahl
12-05-2012, 01:24 AM
By the way, remember that flak given to the ST guy about a Young-Liriano trade? Hindsight . . .

Chance
12-05-2012, 01:44 AM
If Revere does get traded.... everyone not part of the future better be gone also like Morneau and Willingham

beckmt
12-05-2012, 01:44 AM
Twins need pitching and more pitching. If Revere brings a decent prospect go for it.
Earlier list of outfield prospects missed Kepler.

tjsyam921
12-05-2012, 06:00 AM
Is a Revere for Hellickson trade possible?

sorney
12-05-2012, 06:46 AM
Trade em. Rebuild the pitching throughout the org.

twinstalker
12-05-2012, 07:22 AM
For a pitcher Ok... For an OF'er... That don't make much sense.

Revere does some good things, but there are reason to deal him, too. While he's a great CF range, speed on the bases, and high BA,

1. He doesn't walk
2. (redacted) Hicks, Arcia, Buxton, with Willingham, Benson, maybe Roberts as bridge to Buxton.
3. His arm sucks for center. He'll be sucking up most of the balls in the outfield, but he has no arm and teams will run wild.
4. He has no power. Zero power, almost. Many of his hits are infield and don't move runners along more than one base.
5. Someone mentioned getting a crappy Juan Pierre-type to replace him. Well, his GOAL is to be Juan Pierre, because that's his upside.
6. Revere will (or should, anyway) be dealt when the kids arrive. At that time, he'll be overpriced in terms of salary. Right now he's a min salary player, which could mislead teams to give up something for him.
7. He's easily replaceable in a losing season with a platoon. While the lefty hitting guy might not be quite as good, the rh guy should be close, and if it's remotely close, that's all you need to bridge to Hicks.

Mastroianni could provide the right side of a platoon this year with a late, cheap FA getting ABs from the left side. There are plenty out there who could put up a .320 obp.

Of course, what's the point if the Twins can't get anything in return? I really don't know what the Twins could get for him. It's somewhat possible that they could get a pitching prospect that''s in the 100-150 range, but those guys are incredible variable, or they'd be in the top 50. It would be giving up Revere to throw a dart at a board.

Could the Twins trade him to the Braves? Well, I think he could play left for them (because of his arm) or center (because of range) with Upton moving to a corner. Will the Braves give up a Randall Delgado for him? Probably not. They'd probably offer Sean Gilmartin (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=gilmar001sea), and I suspect the Sean Gilmartins out there are Revere's value.

Revere is valuable enough to not give away for something you could just as well get in FA, but if they can get any pitcher with upside who could pitch in 2013 or 2014, they should probably pull the trigger. Revere helps the rebuild only slightly and as a bridge.

Don't Feed the Greed Guy
12-05-2012, 07:23 AM
Parker's lead on this article was Gardenhire's reaction to the Span trade: "They're trading my whole damn team." Wouldn't a Revere trade be the 'coup de grace' (death blow) to 2013 and a manager who doesn't have a contract extension?

Is Terry Ryan throwing Gardy under the proverbial bus? The ONLY way that this could be good for Gardy is if a Revere trade could bring the Twins a top-of-the-rotation starter, not just a Class A phenom. Is "Bingo-Bango-Beno" with his light bat, really worth a top tier starter?

My hunch? If Revere goes, it's curtains for Gardy. He "Sleeps With the Fishes" and Ryan stands alone.

Brock Beauchamp
12-05-2012, 07:31 AM
I was truly looking forward to seeing Revere play CF all year. I love his hustle and his range. But if the price is right, maybe it makes sense to go with Hicks.

What if Hicks bombs? Who would take over CF then? Benson?

Arcia could probably step in for awhile, though it'd be a little ugly. Oswaldo played CF through either Low A or High A.

Brock Beauchamp
12-05-2012, 07:32 AM
Parker's lead on this article was Gardenhire's reaction to the Span trade: "They're trading my whole damn team." Wouldn't a Revere trade be the 'coup de grace' (death blow) to 2013 and a manager who doesn't have a contract extension?

Is Terry Ryan throwing Gardy under the proverbial bus? The ONLY way that this could be good for Gardy is if a Revere trade could bring the Twins a top-of-the-rotation starter, not just a Class A phenom. Is "Bingo-Bango-Beno" with his light bat, really worth a top tier starter?

My hunch? If Revere goes, it's curtains for Gardy. He "Sleeps With the Fishes" and Ryan stands alone.

Oddly enough, I think Gardy's job becomes safer if Ryan liquidates the team. Expectations will fall through the floor at that point.

sorney
12-05-2012, 07:46 AM
Parker's lead on this article was Gardenhire's reaction to the Span trade: "They're trading my whole damn team." Wouldn't a Revere trade be the 'coup de grace' (death blow) to 2013 and a manager who doesn't have a contract extension?

Is Terry Ryan throwing Gardy under the proverbial bus? The ONLY way that this could be good for Gardy is if a Revere trade could bring the Twins a top-of-the-rotation starter, not just a Class A phenom. Is "Bingo-Bango-Beno" with his light bat, really worth a top tier starter?

My hunch? If Revere goes, it's curtains for Gardy. He "Sleeps With the Fishes" and Ryan stands alone.

Oddly enough, I think Gardy's job becomes safer if Ryan liquidates the team. Expectations will fall through the floor at that point.

Absolutely agree. Kinda gives Gardy a chance to work with his new staff and see how they coexist

jwb1226
12-05-2012, 08:07 AM
Why not try and trade him for a young ml ready middle infield prospect?

Riverbrian
12-05-2012, 08:11 AM
For a pitcher Ok... For an OF'er... That don't make much sense.

3. His arm sucks for center. He'll be sucking up most of the balls in the outfield, but he has no arm and teams will run wild.
.

Do you see what you did Puck!!! This runners running wild thing is running wild. lol.

Talker.. I'm ok with a deal of Revere if it brings back pitching.

If the rumors are true... I don't think Terry Ryan was knocking on the door asking... Someone or someone's must be reaching out to TR here but who knows.

Mastro can play this year... I like Mastro and would love to see what he did with an everyday gig. A decent outfielder can be picked up cheap until June or July when Hicks or whoever clears the arb thing.

If the trade brings back an OF'er... The reason for that would allude me.

Twins Twerp
12-05-2012, 08:19 AM
Three Revere trade threads=awesomeness

Brock Beauchamp
12-05-2012, 08:22 AM
Do you see what you did Puck!!! This runners running wild thing is running wild. lol.

Talker.. I'm ok with a deal of Revere if it brings back pitching.

If the rumors are true... I don't think Terry Ryan was knocking on the door asking... Someone or someone's must be reaching out to TR here but who knows.

Mastro can play this year... I like Mastro and would love to see what he did with an everyday gig. A decent outfielder can be picked up cheap until June or July when Hicks or whoever clears the arb thing.

If the trade brings back an OF'er... The reason for that would allude me.

I think the chance of getting an outfielder in return is nearly zero. Pitching is the obvious thing to pursue, followed by MI help.

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 08:22 AM
Only three?

Jim Crikket
12-05-2012, 08:26 AM
I suspect the "may need to get a CF in return" thing was pure speculation on Morosi's part. It wouldn't make any sense at all to take a lesser SP because the trade partner had to give up a CF, too. You get the best SP you can, period. But if CFs are in high demand right now and you think Revere is pretty much a 1-2 year bridge to Hicks or someone else coming up through the organization, you don't hesitate to make the deal now.

Riverbrian
12-05-2012, 08:44 AM
Do you see what you did Puck!!! This runners running wild thing is running wild. lol.

Talker.. I'm ok with a deal of Revere if it brings back pitching.

If the rumors are true... I don't think Terry Ryan was knocking on the door asking... Someone or someone's must be reaching out to TR here but who knows.

Mastro can play this year... I like Mastro and would love to see what he did with an everyday gig. A decent outfielder can be picked up cheap until June or July when Hicks or whoever clears the arb thing.

If the trade brings back an OF'er... The reason for that would allude me.

I think the chance of getting an outfielder in return is nearly zero. Pitching is the obvious thing to pursue, followed by MI help.

Morosi is the source of this rumor. I'm kinda wondering about Morosi right now. His finish of the tweet saying the "Twins might be looking for a CF in return" is strange speculation.

I imagine if a team wants Ben... That means they don't have a CF to trade unless its a young one. We got plenty of young ones.

If a trade does happen... One thing is for sure... You and I will have a gauge on Bens true value at this moment.

Oxtung
12-05-2012, 08:50 AM
Another interesting byproduct of trading Revere is how it would affect potential Morneau or Willingham trades at the deadline or next year. The assumption, to me, has always been that Morneau would likely be traded at the deadline this year as his salary becomes less of an issue. Then Parmelee would move to 1st and Hicks/Arcia/Benson would then step into the OF. If you move Revere before the season and still want to move Morneau/Willingham you now need a second of the Hicks/Arcia/Benson trio to be ready and to compete successfully. Getting 1 successful season out of the trio probably is doable. Getting 2 successful seasons becomes less likely. If Revere is moved I'd say we should expect to see Mastro and a AAAA player (did Bigley get resigned?) getting plenty of PT. I guess a washed up vet for a year is likely as well.

A second fallout from moving Revere is how uncertain our lineup becomes. 3B, SS, 2B, RF, CF would all be basically unknowns heading into the season. If you then want to trade Willingham or Morneau you are adding another uncertainty to the field. It is possible that by the second half of the season we'll see a team where the only stable and veteran players are Mauer and Doumit.

Steve Penz
12-05-2012, 09:01 AM
"If the rumors are true... I don't think Terry Ryan was knocking on the door asking... Someone or someone's must be reaching out to TR here but who knows. "


I agree with this idea. And, he should listen. Revere is fun and exciting and still not a long-term solution. If the right deal is on the table then it needs to be considered. Its not about wanting to trade anybody, its what can the twins get.

jay
12-05-2012, 09:39 AM
I suspect the "may need to get a CF in return" thing was pure speculation on Morosi's part. It wouldn't make any sense at all to take a lesser SP because the trade partner had to give up a CF, too. You get the best SP you can, period. But if CFs are in high demand right now and you think Revere is pretty much a 1-2 year bridge to Hicks or someone else coming up through the organization, you don't hesitate to make the deal now.

Here's a crazy idea to throw out... we know the Twins have room to take on some salary for '13 and even '14. What if Revere went to a team that also wants to shed a contract and that got us back a better prospect?

Angels are the first to mind with Vernon Wells. They'd have a nice outfield of Trout and Trumbo with Bourjos (R) and Revere (L) and the salary savings would let them get another SP. We could easily ask for a pair of nice prospects in return.

Crazy?

Shane Wahl
12-05-2012, 09:47 AM
Is a Revere for Hellickson trade possible?

Haha. No.

Jim Crikket
12-05-2012, 09:48 AM
I suspect the "may need to get a CF in return" thing was pure speculation on Morosi's part. It wouldn't make any sense at all to take a lesser SP because the trade partner had to give up a CF, too. You get the best SP you can, period. But if CFs are in high demand right now and you think Revere is pretty much a 1-2 year bridge to Hicks or someone else coming up through the organization, you don't hesitate to make the deal now.

Here's a crazy idea to throw out... we know the Twins have room to take on some salary for '13 and even '14. What if Revere went to a team that also wants to shed a contract and that got us back a better prospect?

Angels are the first to mind with Vernon Wells. They'd have a nice outfield of Trout and Trumbo with Bourjos (R) and Revere (L) and the salary savings would let them get another SP. We could easily ask for a pair of nice prospects in return.

Crazy?

Probably crazy, yeah. But it's not like this FO hasn't done crazy stuff before. It does seem a little "out there" for someone as conservative as Terry Ryan. I'm also not sure there's all that much room to take on salary in '13 unless Ryan really doesn't do anything except dumpster dive for pitching. By 2014 and certainly 2015, there would be a lot more room for this kind of move. By then, it may make more sense, too, if there's a particular position they feel they need to fill from outside the organization to augment all of the young kids coming up.

Keep thinking outside the box, though. Someone around here should do it and it's not likely to be the Twins FO.

Shane Wahl
12-05-2012, 09:50 AM
Trading Revere right now is silly because he hasn't performed well enough to garner much of a return. Next offseason is the best bet.

I would love to see Revere-Hicks-Benson in the OF a few times in September.

Shane Wahl
12-05-2012, 09:52 AM
I suspect the "may need to get a CF in return" thing was pure speculation on Morosi's part. It wouldn't make any sense at all to take a lesser SP because the trade partner had to give up a CF, too. You get the best SP you can, period. But if CFs are in high demand right now and you think Revere is pretty much a 1-2 year bridge to Hicks or someone else coming up through the organization, you don't hesitate to make the deal now.

Here's a crazy idea to throw out... we know the Twins have room to take on some salary for '13 and even '14. What if Revere went to a team that also wants to shed a contract and that got us back a better prospect?

Angels are the first to mind with Vernon Wells. They'd have a nice outfield of Trout and Trumbo with Bourjos (R) and Revere (L) and the salary savings would let them get another SP. We could easily ask for a pair of nice prospects in return.

Crazy?

Probably crazy, yeah. But it's not like this FO hasn't done crazy stuff before. It does seem a little "out there" for someone as conservative as Terry Ryan. I'm also not sure there's all that much room to take on salary in '13 unless Ryan really doesn't do anything except dumpster dive for pitching. By 2014 and certainly 2015, there would be a lot more room for this kind of move. By then, it may make more sense, too, if there's a particular position they feel they need to fill from outside the organization to augment all of the young kids coming up.

Keep thinking outside the box, though. Someone around here should do it and it's not likely to be the Twins FO.

Yeah, I like that kind of wheeling and dealing and wish that people would consider spending to get prospects much more often.

jay
12-05-2012, 10:12 AM
Yeah, I like that kind of wheeling and dealing and wish that people would consider spending to get prospects much more often.

Likewise. I think some team will figure it out... especially as the spending caps on Int'l players and the draft start to limit options for teams to build. The luxury tax is a long ways away for most teams and MLB payroll is about the only thing left that isn't capped.

Cris E
12-05-2012, 11:25 AM
I think this is Marosi reacting to the crazy CF market, not Ryan making calls. MIN needs a rangy CF to cover for the performance art in LF and RF, where Willingham and Parmalee will be making folks pine for the days of Delmon in the corner.

But if you insist on getting out of the box, I believe the ridiculous cost of young pitching makes a move for a decent young middle infielder a good idea. The Twins don't have good prospects anywhere near ready, not like they do in the outfield, and converting from a position of depth would make good sense. Moving Revere now is earlier than anyone would prefer, but it's going to be the right move at some point.

ashburyjohn
12-05-2012, 12:57 PM
Angels are the first to mind with Vernon Wells. They'd have a nice outfield of Trout and Trumbo with Bourjos (R) and Revere (L) and the salary savings would let them get another SP. We could easily ask for a pair of nice prospects in return.Crazy?

As others have responded, the outside-the-box thinking is great. Wells's contract is exactly the right length, ending before the 2015 season, but unfortunately he is too decrepit to play CF (I never liked him there in the first place) and his preferred position of LF is exactly where we aren't looking at the moment. And unfortunately I don't believe Willingham is going to fetch a good prospect at this time, not to mention that Wells would be such a serious downgrade at the position in terms of offense.

Alfonso Soriano is eerily similar to Wells (2B is not an option, LF only) except he might be still worthwhile on offense for two more years. A three-team trade where the Twins get Soriano from the Cubs and a stud prospect from Team C plus some other assorted youngsters, and give up both Revere and Willingham to be distributed between Cubs and Team C, might work?

But taking on huge salary negates the other type of plan that could involve trading Revere: signing someone for 2013-14 to let Hicks take his sweet time to develop rather than force feed him and pay arbitration a year or two too soon.

A trade that takes on salary 2013-14 would prove that the Twins timetable is 2015 and not 2014. Maybe for PR reasons they can't do that. Or, if Ryan is actually hedging his bets toward 2014 being good, then such a trade won't happen - he'll want budget flexibility to sign someone at a position of need that year, not an untradeable $18M albatross.

cmathewson
12-05-2012, 02:18 PM
Revere's stock is at it's zenith. He will not get more valuable than he is right now. Hicks will be as good, all things considered, in 2013 and much better in 2014. I wouldn't worry about starting his arbitration clock, with Buxton's projected time of arrival at 2016.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-05-2012, 02:27 PM
Revere's stock is at it's zenith. He will not get more valuable than he is right now. Hicks will be as good, all things considered, in 2013 and much better in 2014. I wouldn't worry about starting his arbitration clock, with Buxton's projected time of arrival at 2016.

As much as i like Revere i think youre right. We need pitching prospects and I think Revere can get us something a little lower than Alex Meyer. Im excited for what Hicks can become, let him go through some growing pains in 2013 in the Majors, and hopefully he can become pretty darn good in 2014

Jim H
12-05-2012, 04:27 PM
Revere's stock is at it's zenith. He will not get more valuable than he is right now. Hicks will be as good, all things considered, in 2013 and much better in 2014. I wouldn't worry about starting his arbitration clock, with Buxton's projected time of arrival at 2016.


I don't really agree with any of this. Revere value may be as high as it going to get, but I doubt it. He has always shown an ability to hit. I believe he can contend for batting titles and if he does his value goes up, big time. Nothing about Hicks' year at AA suggest that he is close to ready to play in the majors. I suspect he will be very good when he is ready, but letting him struggle in the majors right now is unlikely to do him much good.

Finally, just because Buxton might be ready by 2016 is no reason to put Hicks in the majors now. They could play side by side, Hicks might be more tradeable with a lower salary, and just because Buxton might replace Hicks that soon is no good reason to let Hicks struggle in the majors if he is not ready.

diehardtwinsfan
12-05-2012, 08:04 PM
I have a tough time believing Revere's value is at its zenith because I don't see Revere as all that valuable. I'd argue that if he put up an OPS between .700 and .750 this season that he'd have some value, but right now, there are too many question marks to think he's going to get mch of a return.

Chris in Osaka
12-05-2012, 08:43 PM
Is a Revere for Hellickson trade possible?

You must be out of your mind!

Chris in Osaka
12-05-2012, 08:45 PM
Revere's stock is at it's zenith. He will not get more valuable than he is right now. Hicks will be as good, all things considered, in 2013 and much better in 2014. I wouldn't worry about starting his arbitration clock, with Buxton's projected time of arrival at 2016.

Exactly. By the end of this year, his complete dearth of offensive skills will be glaringly apparent: no power and an on-base percentage below 300. Trade him for a warm arm or two.

ScottyB
12-06-2012, 08:54 AM
http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/182355221.html

Latest from LEN III - Twins do seem to be shopping Revere and give a chance to Hicks in CF.

jay
12-06-2012, 09:59 AM
Alfonso Soriano is eerily similar to Wells (2B is not an option, LF only) except he might be still worthwhile on offense for two more years. A three-team trade where the Twins get Soriano from the Cubs and a stud prospect from Team C plus some other assorted youngsters, and give up both Revere and Willingham to be distributed between Cubs and Team C, might work?



And at least then we'd still have some RH pop for the current lineup. I still think moving Revere is an odd concept and would rather seem Hammer move in a deal like this.

I really like the third team idea. We've been hearing about lots of multi-team talks down at the GM mtgs, so maybe something like that is possible. Maybe the Mariners? Hammer to SEA, Soriano and Paxton to MIN, MIN B-prospect to CHC? It wouldn't look as much like we've given up on '13 and '14 while we get a good arm back.

I'd probably give TR a gold star just for effort and doing something different if they pull it off.

Connecticut Twins Fan
12-12-2012, 07:36 PM
You nailed it, Parker!