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jokin
12-04-2012, 09:05 AM
"Connolly writes that "landing a first baseman or designated hitter with pop is a real possibility." His sense is that the Orioles will make a deal either at the Winter Meetings or within a few days of their conclusion.
Executive VP Dan Duquette told reporters on Sunday that a power bat is his biggest target, and that the addition would likely come via trade as opposed to free agency."

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/baltimore_orioles/index.html#hGvCPvj8bWcZ618S.99



The Orioles have a BA Top-10 starting pitcher in Dylan Bundy and have other pitching depth. Are they looking to move salary as well? The answer is "Yes" as both Roberts and Hardy have been speculated about as trade bait.

Do the Twins have what the Birds want in Morneau/Willingham/Prospect(s) to make this happen?

mike wants wins
12-04-2012, 09:11 AM
Morneau, Perkins, 7 million, Hermsenn, Rosario, something else for Machado and Gausman. People laughed when I suggested Span for Gausmann, but that is pretty much what they did in getting Meyer. This will not happen, but I would make the offer. And yes, I know Gausmann would need to be a ptbnl.

Jim Crikket
12-04-2012, 09:19 AM
Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-04-2012, 09:22 AM
Morneau, Perkins, 7 million, Hermsenn, Rosario, something else for Machado and Gausman. People laughed when I suggested Span for Gausmann, but that is pretty much what they did in getting Meyer. This will not happen, but I would make the offer. And yes, I know Gausmann would need to be a ptbnl.

That isn't nearly enough for the Twins to get Machado and Gausman.
Morneau is nice player but still has plenty of questions, it's not hard to find power on the free agent market. Perkins is a good but not elite RP, Rosario is a nice prospect and Hermsenn has no value in a trade like this.

Machado is a stud who made an impact in the majors at 19 years old, he is about as close to "untouchable" as it gets. Also Gausman was just the #4 pick in the draft, no way is Baltimore going to trade him at this point.

If you were really serious about getting Machado you would need to package Sano along with Hicks and maybe a major leaguer to even get in the conversation.

Guys like Machado, Bundy and Gausman will not be traded this off-season or anytime soon. As far as a trade partner goes, Baltimore doesn't have a ton that interests me that we could obtain. I wouldn't mind bringing Hardy back, but I can't see that happening. I would like to take a run at Tillman (actually I wanted to go after him last off-season when he was struggling) but I don't think Tillman comes cheaply, other then that I don't see a whole lot of targets that make sense for the Twins.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-04-2012, 09:25 AM
Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.
I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

mike wants wins
12-04-2012, 09:29 AM
I would put Sano in a package for Machado.....but that part of the deal is unrealistic. I do think you could get Gausman though. The Orioles can smell it right now....

jokin
12-04-2012, 09:30 AM
Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.
I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

Would the ante be upped if the Orioles would consider Willingham and Parmelee in the same package- ie, two birds killed with one stone? What about their willingness to part with Roberts as part of the deal (who could later be flipped by the Twins?)

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-04-2012, 09:33 AM
Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.
I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

Would the ante be upped if the Orioles would consider Willingham and Parmelee in the same package- ie, two birds killed with one stone? What about their willingness to part with Roberts as part of the deal (who could later be flipped by the Twins?)

Roberts has been absolutely dreadful the last 2 seasons and is owed a lot of money for 2013. Who are you saying they should trade for by packaging Willingham and Parmelee together?

Bundy? Machado? It ain't going to happen.

Jim Crikket
12-04-2012, 09:34 AM
Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.
I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

I hear ya and I don't necessarily disagree. Sure, you would like a guy who's under team control longer, but Hammel might not be impossible to lock up for a few more years, either. I do tend to discount his stats with Colorado a bit, though, so there's part of me that think you may be underestimating his abilities.

The thing is, with Morneau being owed $14 million, that presents a lot of opportunities. The Twins can agree to eat a significant part of that if they want something better than Hammel in return or the O's can take on most of the remaining money if Hammel is all they'd part with. Even that result would leave the Twins with a pretty big chunk of change that would be added to the $25 million or so that Ryan has to play with right now.

Like I said, it just seems like there could be a deal to be made between these two teams since they do have pieces that the other could use.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-04-2012, 09:41 AM
Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.
I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

I hear ya and I don't necessarily disagree. Sure, you would like a guy who's under team control longer, but Hammel might not be impossible to lock up for a few more years, either. I do tend to discount his stats with Colorado a bit, though, so there's part of me that think you may be underestimating his abilities.

The thing is, with Morneau being owed $14 million, that presents a lot of opportunities. The Twins can agree to eat a significant part of that if they want something better than Hammel in return or the O's can take on most of the remaining money if Hammel is all they'd part with. Even that result would leave the Twins with a pretty big chunk of change that would be added to the $25 million or so that Ryan has to play with right now.

Like I said, it just seems like there could be a deal to be made between these two teams since they do have pieces that the other could use.

I'm just of the opinion that if you trade Morneau you need a youngster that can help the future back in return. IMO one year of Hammel isn't enough, even if he is willing to resign easier, I just think you can get any one of the 20 similar pitchers on the FA market that next year.

I think the best play is to keep Morneau to start the season, if he comes out healthy/effective you can always trade him at the deadline to a team that needs a bat (where his contract wouldn't be as big of an issue) and ideally get a solid prospect back. Or if the Twins are competitive you still have him around.

If someone offers you a good player in the meantime, take him. It's just I don't think Hammel is that "good player"

jokin
12-04-2012, 09:41 AM
Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.
I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

Would the ante be upped if the Orioles would consider Willingham and Parmelee in the same package- ie, two birds killed with one stone? What about their willingness to part with Roberts as part of the deal (who could later be flipped by the Twins?)

Roberts has been absolutely dreadful the last 2 seasons and is owed a lot of money for 2013. Who are you saying they should trade for by packaging Willingham and Parmelee together?

Bundy? Machado? It ain't going to happen.

You would probaly have to pick up some of the Bird's "weak sauce" (the thrify Orioles would likely want some dilution on the payroll inequity of the deal) to get what you really want. I know they won't trade Bundy, but they do have other decent pitchers, Gausman in effect, becomes superfluous, for a team, like MWW says, can "taste it" in 2013. And if they can taste it without Machado in the mix and can be induced by a throw-in prospect or two, I think you can make a win-win deal

gunnarthor
12-04-2012, 09:44 AM
Here's Orioles top 20 prospects http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/11/27/3698600/baltimore-orioles-top-20-prospects-for-2013

Span, who was our best trade chip, got us a B+ prospect in Meyer. So there is no way we could get a guy like Gausman or Bundy or Machedo. There are untouchable. And after that, they don't have much. Morneau might get us a back end type starter. Not a lot to be excited about. Morneau's value will be much higher at the trade deadline, provided he stays healthy. If the Twins are 15 games back at the break but Morneau is putting up a solid/healthy season, he'd probably be the premier big bat on the market. Trade him then.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-04-2012, 09:47 AM
Gausman in effect, becomes superfluous, for a team, like MWW says, can "taste it" in 2013.

Here is the thing about the 2012 Orioles...they weren't that good, they were extremely lucky. Was it a good baseball story to follow? Hell yes. But at the end of the day they are due for a huge regression in the W/L column. Not only were they the luckiest team in baseball last year, but I would venture to say one of the most lucky teams in the last 25 years or so. You need to look no further then then their pythagorean record and their results in one run and extra inning games.

The Orioles would be very foolish to get all "win now mode" and sell away the future of the franchise (they have a good young core in the farm system. Finally. They won't dismantle that now)

At this point, if I had to make predictions on the season the Orioles will probably be favored to finish in last place in the division, and that is no exaggeration. The Yankees are the Yankees, the Rays continue to be a solid ball club, the Blue Jays just brought in almost a whole new team! and the Red Sox won't be down for long.

70charger
12-04-2012, 09:50 AM
The Orioles are already mostly former Twins, do we really need to be sending more over there?

mike wants wins
12-04-2012, 09:54 AM
I agree the Orioles were lucky, but it is not about what we think. It is about whether they think they are close, and I think they think that. And Meyer and Gausman are nearly identical prospects.

jokin
12-04-2012, 09:55 AM
Gausman in effect, becomes superfluous, for a team, like MWW says, can "taste it" in 2013.

Here is the thing about the 2012 Orioles...they weren't that good, they were extremely lucky. Was it a good baseball story to follow? Hell yes. But at the end of the day they are due for a huge regression in the W/L column. Not only were they the luckiest team in baseball last year, but I would venture to say one of the most lucky teams in the last 25 years or so. You need to look no further then then their pythagorean record and their results in one run and extra inning games.

The Orioles would be very foolish to get all "win now mode" and sell away the future of the franchise (they have a good young core in the farm system. Finally. They won't dismantle that now)

At this point, if I had to make predictions on the season the Orioles will probably be favored to finish in last place in the division, and that is no exaggeration. The Yankees are the Yankees, the Rays continue to be a solid ball club, the Blue Jays just brought in almost a whole new team! and the Red Sox won't be down for long.

You're analyzing the Orioles like you're 2000 miles away from them (which you almost are, if you're from MN). Duqette doesn't strike me as a guy with the inferiority complex that you seem to think he should richly embrace. Yes, they were "lucky" last year, but their fans expectations for 2013 are a lot higher based on their 2012 luck, so there should be a penchant around the franchise to make the necessary moves to build on last season's W-L success, foolish or not, taking the slings and arrows for regressing from last season by taking no chances seems like a worse outcome for the Orioles FO.

jokin
12-04-2012, 09:56 AM
I agree the Orioles were lucky, but it is not about what we think. It is about whether they think they are close, and I think they think that. And Meyer and Gausman are nearly identical prospects.

That + what I said.

jokin
12-04-2012, 09:58 AM
The Orioles are already mostly former Twins, do we really need to be sending more over there?

Zing.

Hey, I am probably going to need the Orioles as my alternate team for yet another year, so why not?

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-04-2012, 10:03 AM
I agree the Orioles were lucky, but it is not about what we think. It is about whether they think they are close, and I think they think that. And Meyer and Gausman are nearly identical prospects.
Well if the majority of baseball minds and fans can summize that they were lucky last year, I would hope their front office who is paid millions of dollars to be experts would realize this as ell.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-04-2012, 10:05 AM
Gausman in effect, becomes superfluous, for a team, like MWW says, can "taste it" in 2013.

Here is the thing about the 2012 Orioles...they weren't that good, they were extremely lucky. Was it a good baseball story to follow? Hell yes. But at the end of the day they are due for a huge regression in the W/L column. Not only were they the luckiest team in baseball last year, but I would venture to say one of the most lucky teams in the last 25 years or so. You need to look no further then then their pythagorean record and their results in one run and extra inning games.

The Orioles would be very foolish to get all "win now mode" and sell away the future of the franchise (they have a good young core in the farm system. Finally. They won't dismantle that now)

At this point, if I had to make predictions on the season the Orioles will probably be favored to finish in last place in the division, and that is no exaggeration. The Yankees are the Yankees, the Rays continue to be a solid ball club, the Blue Jays just brought in almost a whole new team! and the Red Sox won't be down for long.

You're analyzing the Orioles like you're 2000 miles away from them (which you almost are, if you're from MN). Duqette doesn't strike me as a guy with the inferiority complex that you seem to think he should richly embrace. Yes, they were "lucky" last year, but their fans expectations for 2013 are a lot higher based on their 2012 luck, so there should be a penchant around the franchise to make the necessary moves to build on last season's W-L success, foolish or not, taking the slings and arrows for regressing from last season by taking no chances seems like a worse outcome for the Orioles FO.

Actually I am about 200 miles away from Baltimore, and made a few trips down to Camden last year and have a quite a few friends who are O's fans. From talking to them, they all realize that last year was a fun ride, but largely due to luck. Orioles fans are excited moving forward, but they have their eye on 2014 and 2015, when guys like Bundy, Machado and Gausman will be making a huge impact (and the Yankees will be extremely old/The Rays will be getting in trouble etc)

The O's aren't going to mortage their future for some misguided "win now" model in the best division in baseball.

jokin
12-04-2012, 10:21 AM
Gausman in effect, becomes superfluous, for a team, like MWW says, can "taste it" in 2013.

Here is the thing about the 2012 Orioles...they weren't that good, they were extremely lucky. Was it a good baseball story to follow? Hell yes. But at the end of the day they are due for a huge regression in the W/L column. Not only were they the luckiest team in baseball last year, but I would venture to say one of the most lucky teams in the last 25 years or so. You need to look no further then then their pythagorean record and their results in one run and extra inning games.

The Orioles would be very foolish to get all "win now mode" and sell away the future of the franchise (they have a good young core in the farm system. Finally. They won't dismantle that now)

At this point, if I had to make predictions on the season the Orioles will probably be favored to finish in last place in the division, and that is no exaggeration. The Yankees are the Yankees, the Rays continue to be a solid ball club, the Blue Jays just brought in almost a whole new team! and the Red Sox won't be down for long.

You're analyzing the Orioles like you're 2000 miles away from them (which you almost are, if you're from MN). Duqette doesn't strike me as a guy with the inferiority complex that you seem to think he should richly embrace. Yes, they were "lucky" last year, but their fans expectations for 2013 are a lot higher based on their 2012 luck, so there should be a penchant around the franchise to make the necessary moves to build on last season's W-L success, foolish or not, taking the slings and arrows for regressing from last season by taking no chances seems like a worse outcome for the Orioles FO.

Actually I am about 200 miles away from Baltimore, and made a few trips down to Camden last year and have a quite a few friends who are O's fans. From talking to them, they all realize that last year was a fun ride, but largely due to luck. Orioles fans are excited moving forward, but they have their eye on 2014 and 2015, when guys like Bundy, Machado and Gausman will be making a huge impact (and the Yankees will be extremely old/The Rays will be getting in trouble etc)

The O's aren't going to mortage their future for some misguided "win now" model in the best division in baseball.

If the Orioles fall to last place, the FO will be viewed as misguided in their approach and jobs could very well be on the line. Davey Johnson aint getting any younger either. He'll be 70 next month and would probably rather strike while the iron is hot than wait to try for a title later. As you're from the neighborhood, you are aware that the Orioles have hit kind-of a long dry spell of late.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-04-2012, 10:37 AM
If the Orioles fall to last place, the FO will be viewed as misguided in their approach and jobs could very well be on the line. Davey Johnson aint getting any younger either. He'll be 70 next month and would probably rather strike while the iron is hot than wait to try for a title later. As you're from the neighborhood, you are aware that the Orioles have hit kind-of a long dry spell of late.

Davey Johnson doesn't manage the Orioles. I don't see any way the Orioles win more then 80 games next year. Not in that division.

old nurse
12-04-2012, 10:53 AM
If the Orioles fall to last place, the FO will be viewed as misguided in their approach and jobs could very well be on the line. Davey Johnson aint getting any younger either. He'll be 70 next month and would probably rather strike while the iron is hot than wait to try for a title later. As you're from the neighborhood, you are aware that the Orioles have hit kind-of a long dry spell of late.


Davey Johnson doesn't manage the Orioles. I don't see any way the Orioles win more then 80 games next year. Not in that division.

You could have further informed him that Buck Showalter is the manager. At 56 he can be around for as long as he wants.

johnnydakota
12-04-2012, 11:19 AM
Here's Orioles top 20 prospects http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/11/27/3698600/baltimore-orioles-top-20-prospects-for-2013

Span, who was our best trade chip, got us a B+ prospect in Meyer. So there is no way we could get a guy like Gausman or Bundy or Machedo. There are untouchable. And after that, they don't have much. Morneau might get us a back end type starter. Not a lot to be excited about. Morneau's value will be much higher at the trade deadline, provided he stays healthy. If the Twins are 15 games back at the break but Morneau is putting up a solid/healthy season, he'd probably be the premier big bat on the market. Trade him then.

before the new cba , i agree july trades drove up the return , but now with the new cba , and justin signed only through 2013 , the team that accuires him recieves no compensation if he leaves via free agency after the season , with or with out a qualifing offer

Kwak
12-04-2012, 11:24 AM
Here's Orioles top 20 prospects http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/11/27/3698600/baltimore-orioles-top-20-prospects-for-2013

Span, who was our best trade chip, got us a B+ prospect in Meyer. So there is no way we could get a guy like Gausman or Bundy or Machedo. There are untouchable. And after that, they don't have much. Morneau might get us a back end type starter. Not a lot to be excited about. Morneau's value will be much higher at the trade deadline, provided he stays healthy. If the Twins are 15 games back at the break but Morneau is putting up a solid/healthy season, he'd probably be the premier big bat on the market. Trade him then.
Why is Morneau's value higher in midseason? What evidence are you using? How many trades of "hitters" in mideason have yielded a treasure of new talent? My memory is that these deals are viewed as "salary dumps" with little baseball talent recieved for said star. In the past month several teams have surfaced as potential "landing places" for Morneau, but come July virtually every contender has a 1B who hits. Many have stated concerns over Morneau's concussion, or wrist, or whatever and all cite his bloated salary--all of those issues will still be there in July. The Twins should actively move to trade him now and use the "salary reduction" to improve the pitching. The Twins can find others to play 1B.

FrodaddyG
12-04-2012, 12:31 PM
Morneau, Perkins, 7 million, Hermsenn, Rosario, something else for Machado and Gausman. People laughed when I suggested Span for Gausmann, but that is pretty much what they did in getting Meyer. This will not happen, but I would make the offer. And yes, I know Gausmann would need to be a ptbnl.
This may be the funniest thing I've ever read on the internet. Well played.

Shane Wahl
12-04-2012, 12:38 PM
Don't they have to wait a full year since Gausman signed before they can trade him? Or is that wrong?

Bundy isn't going anywhere, so I don't think this trade is either. Schoop and Rodriguez, maybe? I would be happy tossing Hermsen in with Morneau.

SpiritofVodkaDave
12-04-2012, 01:01 PM
Why is Morneau's value higher in midseason? What evidence are you using? How many trades of "hitters" in mideason have yielded a treasure of new talent? My memory is that these deals are viewed as "salary dumps" with little baseball talent recieved for said star. In the past month several teams have surfaced as potential "landing places" for Morneau, but come July virtually every contender has a 1B who hits. Many have stated concerns over Morneau's concussion, or wrist, or whatever and all cite his bloated salary--all of those issues will still be there in July. The Twins should actively move to trade him now and use the "salary reduction" to improve the pitching. The Twins can find others to play 1B.

Here is a very recent example: Carlos Beltran.

Look up what the Mets got for him, it was pretty good ;)

gunnarthor
12-04-2012, 02:07 PM
Here's Orioles top 20 prospects http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/11/27/3698600/baltimore-orioles-top-20-prospects-for-2013

Span, who was our best trade chip, got us a B+ prospect in Meyer. So there is no way we could get a guy like Gausman or Bundy or Machedo. There are untouchable. And after that, they don't have much. Morneau might get us a back end type starter. Not a lot to be excited about. Morneau's value will be much higher at the trade deadline, provided he stays healthy. If the Twins are 15 games back at the break but Morneau is putting up a solid/healthy season, he'd probably be the premier big bat on the market. Trade him then.

before the new cba , i agree july trades drove up the return , but now with the new cba , and justin signed only through 2013 , the team that accuires him recieves no compensation if he leaves via free agency after the season , with or with out a qualifing offer

That's a good point. The counter point is that, at the deadline some team (say the Rangers) might be desperate for a LH power bat and won't have to take on 14m. If we trade Morneau now, we'd be trading him with still some questions on his health to go along with a huge salary. I think his return is better if there is a deadline market for him.

gunnarthor
12-04-2012, 02:14 PM
Here's Orioles top 20 prospects http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/11/27/3698600/baltimore-orioles-top-20-prospects-for-2013

Span, who was our best trade chip, got us a B+ prospect in Meyer. So there is no way we could get a guy like Gausman or Bundy or Machedo. There are untouchable. And after that, they don't have much. Morneau might get us a back end type starter. Not a lot to be excited about. Morneau's value will be much higher at the trade deadline, provided he stays healthy. If the Twins are 15 games back at the break but Morneau is putting up a solid/healthy season, he'd probably be the premier big bat on the market. Trade him then.
Why is Morneau's value higher in midseason? What evidence are you using? How many trades of "hitters" in mideason have yielded a treasure of new talent? My memory is that these deals are viewed as "salary dumps" with little baseball talent recieved for said star. In the past month several teams have surfaced as potential "landing places" for Morneau, but come July virtually every contender has a 1B who hits. Many have stated concerns over Morneau's concussion, or wrist, or whatever and all cite his bloated salary--all of those issues will still be there in July. The Twins should actively move to trade him now and use the "salary reduction" to improve the pitching. The Twins can find others to play 1B.

Beltran got Zach Wheeler. Carlos Lee got Matt Dominguez and a pitcher (after a Dodger deal rumored to involve Eovaldi or Zach Lee was killed by Carlos Lee).

I think that, if Morneau puts together a solid 3 months, the concussion concerns won't be as prevalent. Esp for a team that could use a LH power bat. And playoff type teams last year that lacked a solid 1b included the Rangers and Dodgers.

diehardtwinsfan
12-04-2012, 08:20 PM
I'd be fine getting Gausman for Morneau, but something tells me that Baltimore's GM won't have the same opinion...


then again, we could have had Gausman in the draft had we wanted him... It would be nice having an A- grade pitcher in the system instead of a B+ centerfielder.

I tend to agree that if Mornea simply repeats the 2nd half of this year at the beginning of next season, he's going to fetch something nice at the deadline.

kab21
12-05-2012, 09:28 AM
I think everyone in this thread needs to realize that you are going to need an Upton or Andrus type player to get Machado and bundy. And Twins don't have the pieces to get Gausman.

Schoop might be an optimistic target. Arrieta might as well but the O's need pitching and the Twins don't have any to trade.

old nurse
12-05-2012, 09:41 AM
I think everyone in this thread needs to realize that you are going to need an Upton or Andrus type player to get Machado and bundy. And Twins don't have the pieces to get Gausman.

Schoop might be an optimistic target. Arrieta might as well but the O's need pitching and the Twins don't have any to trade.

Realize that reality is not what many of the posts are based on.

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 10:09 AM
Gausmann is pretty much Meyer, why do you feel he is so hard to get?

FrodaddyG
12-05-2012, 03:41 PM
Gausmann is pretty much Meyer, why do you feel he is so hard to get?
No, he's significantly more valuable.

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 03:45 PM
How? I am curious why we think Gausman is considerably more valuable. And if he is, why pass on him given the system they have?

SweetOne69
12-05-2012, 03:48 PM
Gausman is impossible to get as he can't be traded until August at the earliest.

Draft picks can't be traded until 1 year after their signing date.

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 03:49 PM
I know that, but you can do a player to be named later...and then agree later it is him.

FrodaddyG
12-05-2012, 03:50 PM
How? I am curious why we think Gausman is considerably more valuable. And if he is, why pass on him given the system they have?
Because he has better command, throws just as hard, and already has a great feel for his change.

There's a reason he went in the top 4, and was in the discussion at #1 overall, and Meyer was a late first round guy. The later guys generally have more warts, and the guys that go at the very top are usually more polished.

And I'd guess they passed because they had Buxton higher on their board. Best player available is the only way to go when you're picking at the top of the draft.

SweetOne69
12-05-2012, 03:52 PM
While you can do a PTBNL, I don't think you can wait 9 months to name that player.

I could see Gausman as a PTBNL in a June or July trade not a December or January one.

SweetOne69
12-05-2012, 03:55 PM
I know that, but you can do a player to be named later...and then agree later it is him.

PTBNL trades must be completed within 6 months of the remainder of the trade so even that prevents Gausman from being in a trade at this time.

They would have to wait until mid-March in order to include Gausman as a PTBNL.

mike wants wins
12-05-2012, 05:00 PM
Did not know that, thanks.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
12-05-2012, 05:36 PM
Did not know that, thanks.

me either...thanks SweetOne!

Twins Twerp
12-05-2012, 06:09 PM
How? I am curious why we think Gausman is considerably more valuable. And if he is, why pass on him given the system they have?
Because he has better command, throws just as hard, and already has a great feel for his change.

There's a reason he went in the top 4, and was in the discussion at #1 overall, and Meyer was a late first round guy. The later guys generally have more warts, and the guys that go at the very top are usually more polished.

And I'd guess they passed because they had Buxton higher on their board. Best player available is the only way to go when you're picking at the top of the draft.

I am going to to have to disagree with you. In all do respect, Meyer and Gausman are about the same as far as prospects go. You can't take into account where a guy was drafted. Had Meyer been in this years draft, he would have been up there with the Gausmans and Appels. That is like saying Berrios is not in the same league as Wimmers because he was drafted much later. For one, Meyers fell because he was a Boras guy. But mainly, Meyers was taken in possibly the deepest draft since the first draft in 1965 (wikipedia.com). On the flipside, last years draft was historically shallow. I would argue that Meyers and Gausman will be similarly ranked in all national prospect lists and Meyer has a leg up as he has pitched a full season already. I say this with all do respect to Frodaddy G Bones.

kab21
12-05-2012, 06:44 PM
I like it how you try to make an argument using all the wrong stuff while ignoring the stuff that matters. The wrong stuff = strength of draft and Boras. The stuff that matters = better command and better change.

CC7
12-05-2012, 07:11 PM
mourneau for britton and arriteta straight up. dump salary

kab21
12-05-2012, 08:19 PM
mourneau for britton and arriteta straight up. dump salary

If you're dumping salary then you usually don't get talent back. I'm hoping that Baltimore would overvalue Morneau enough that they would trade either of these players with the Twins picking up 4+M of the contract. I like Arrieta more though.

CC7
12-05-2012, 08:22 PM
mourneau for britton and arriteta straight up. dump salary

If you're dumping salary then you usually don't get talent back. I'm hoping that Baltimore would overvalue Morneau enough that they would trade either of these players with the Twins picking up 4+M of the contract. I like Arrieta more though.

okay, we eat 2 million of the 7 million