PDA

View Full Version : Is Hendriks sewn up as 5th starter?



greengoblinrulz
11-28-2012, 11:29 AM
All reports have Diamond as the only starter but I believe Liam has a slot to lose if he's not dealt in a package.
Reasoning includes the AAA pitchers as of now: Deduno, Walters, Blackburn, DeVries & Pedro Hernandez. The list also counts Kyle Gibson, who'll start in bullpen, Shairon Martis & BJ Hermsen, who'll both start in AA. Thats 8 guys. Mn wont send Hendriks back to a level he dominated.
I also think if they keep Liam, he will take the big Scot Diamond type jump.
Agree or not?

nicksaviking
11-28-2012, 11:44 AM
Knock on wood.

Ryan has said he wants to get three new starters, though that may have been more of a dream than a goal. That being said, Diamond has one spot, and you'd think Hendriks is the front runner over the rest of the mess seeing as he is the only one outside of the rehabbing* Gibson who has any kind of upside.

*Also known as Super 2 insurance.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
11-28-2012, 11:48 AM
I have faith in Hendriks to be a solid major league starter. He got his feet wet last year. I think he will adjust and do find this year. My prediction if he does make the rotation 11-8 with a 4.05 ERA.

mnfanforlife
11-28-2012, 11:49 AM
All reports have Diamond as the only starter but I believe Liam has a slot to lose if he's not dealt in a package.
Reasoning includes the AAA pitchers as of now: Deduno, Walters, Blackburn, DeVries & Pedro Hernandez. The list also counts Kyle Gibson, who'll start in bullpen, Shairon Martis & BJ Hermsen, who'll both start in AA. Thats 8 guys. Mn wont send Hendriks back to a level he dominated.
I also think if they keep Liam, he will take the big Scot Diamond type jump.
Agree or not?

I sure hope Hendriks survives in the Twins rotation. And I do agree he should pretty much be a lock for a look at the MLB level

mnfanforlife
11-28-2012, 11:49 AM
that would be outstanding!

Nick Nelson
11-28-2012, 12:06 PM
I doubt Hendriks has "sewn up" anything given his performance this past season. Most likely, he'll be competing in ST with Gibson, Deduno and others for the fifth spot in the rotation. Of course, that requires the Twins to fill three other spots...

Brock Beauchamp
11-28-2012, 12:08 PM
Sewn up, no. Most likely candidate to be added to the rotation, yes.

Physics Guy
11-28-2012, 12:14 PM
Hendriks absolutely should have the #5 spot in the rotation. Outside of Gibson, he is the only prospect at SP with any sort of upside that is major league ready. Hendriks has nothing left to prove in the minors. His rate stats last year are comparable to Viola and Milton when they first came up, albeit they were a year younger. Milton and Viola both had more innings 172 and 126 vs 85 for Hendriks. I wish Gardy had just left Liam in the rotation the way Kelly did with Milton and Viola on crappy teams. Then maybe we would have a better idea of what we have. I just hope it isn't Kevin Slowey.

Physics Guy
11-28-2012, 12:17 PM
I doubt Hendriks has "sewn up" anything given his performance this past season. Most likely, he'll be competing in ST with Gibson, Deduno and others for the fifth spot in the rotation. Of course, that requires the Twins to fill three other spots...

I hope the Twins decide on the Medlen route for Gibson rather than the Stasburg route. I would rather he starts in the pen and bring him along slowly to limit his innings.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
11-28-2012, 12:21 PM
I doubt Hendriks has "sewn up" anything given his performance this past season. Most likely, he'll be competing in ST with Gibson, Deduno and others for the fifth spot in the rotation. Of course, that requires the Twins to fill three other spots...

I hope the Twins decide on the Medlen route for Gibson rather than the Stasburg route. I would rather he starts in the pen and bring him along slowly to limit his innings.

I think they should do the Medlen way as well. But will either on matter? Because the Twins likely arent going to be in the playoff race next year,

mike wants wins
11-28-2012, 12:25 PM
He should, under the assumption they do not acquire 3 legit other starters, and plan to compete. If they do acquire 3 legit starters, I do not know who number 5 is

John Bonnes
11-28-2012, 12:33 PM
I don't know that he is viewed as significantly more ready than Deduno, De Vries or maybe even Walters right now. I think the Twins would like him to outpace those guys in spring training, but if one of those guys has a better spring, I can see them going with someone else.

mnfanforlife
11-28-2012, 12:41 PM
He will probably get a better shot than De Vries and Walters, sinc ethe Twins already know what those two can bring to the table. But, I think Deduno has the best chance to stick out of spring training, along with Hendriks. The other two will be ready when and if anyone fails or get injured.

70charger
11-28-2012, 12:53 PM
My personal opinion is that, while he may or may not have a spot "sewn up" according to Gardy and the front office, he should be given every chance to succeed or fail. His numbers in AAA were absolutely outstanding, he's still very young, and while he's certainly taken some lumps at the major league level thus far, he has had no real consistent time to prove himself.

If I were in charge, I would sit down with him and say: "You're in. Think of this as your major league tryout. If you go out there and get shelled time after time, you'll find yourself off the roster. But if you go out there and have a single bad game, you won't need to worry about whether you'll still be here tomorrow. Now go prove something."

70charger
11-28-2012, 12:53 PM
And in case it matters, I'm a big believer in the idea that Hendriks not only can, but will prove himself.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
11-28-2012, 12:58 PM
And in case it matters, I'm a big believer in the idea that Hendriks not only can, but will prove himself.

I like your thinking, I agree.

ThePuck
11-28-2012, 01:03 PM
I doubt Hendriks has "sewn up" anything given his performance this past season. Most likely, he'll be competing in ST with Gibson, Deduno and others for the fifth spot in the rotation. Of course, that requires the Twins to fill three other spots...

The last time we had three highly stated ST competitions, the guy who did better in ST ended up losing. Span vs Gomez for CF (Gomez won), Harris versus Punto for 3B (Punto won), Slowey versus the 5 starters who made the rotation. (Slowey got sent to the bullpen).

Yeah, remember that last one, where they said we have a surplus of quality starting pitching so we'll have a battle to see who the top 5 are...a surplus of pitching...yeah right

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
11-28-2012, 01:24 PM
I doubt Hendriks has "sewn up" anything given his performance this past season. Most likely, he'll be competing in ST with Gibson, Deduno and others for the fifth spot in the rotation. Of course, that requires the Twins to fill three other spots...

The last time we had three highly stated ST competitions, the guy who did better in ST ended up losing. Span vs Gomez for CF (Gomez won), Harris versus Punto for 3B (Punto won), Slowey versus the 5 starters who made the rotation. (Slowey got sent to the bullpen).

Yeah, remember that last one, where they said we have a surplus of quality starting pitching so we'll have a battle to see who the top 5 are...a surplus of pitching...yeah right

Thats when every team was beating on the Twins door for a quality pitcher...we just hand an abundance of good pitchers ;)

Badsmerf
11-28-2012, 02:59 PM
I doubt Hendriks has "sewn up" anything given his performance this past season. Most likely, he'll be competing in ST with Gibson, Deduno and others for the fifth spot in the rotation. Of course, that requires the Twins to fill three other spots...

I hope the Twins decide on the Medlen route for Gibson rather than the Stasburg route. I would rather he starts in the pen and bring him along slowly to limit his innings.

He pitched about 50 innings this year, and most of them starting. The Twins most likely will start him in AAA to make sure he can go deep into games and bring him up in June. I'd have him start with the Twins right away, but thats me. I think they'll let him go 120-150 IP and cut him off. I don't like the idea of starting the pen and coming up slow. Two different positions that require completely different approaches. Bad idea.

greengoblinrulz
11-28-2012, 03:06 PM
I doubt Hendriks has "sewn up" anything given his performance this past season. Most likely, he'll be competing in ST with Gibson, Deduno and others for the fifth spot in the rotation. Of course, that requires the Twins to fill three other spots...

The last time we had three highly stated ST competitions, the guy who did better in ST ended up losing. Span vs Gomez for CF (Gomez won), Harris versus Punto for 3B (Punto won), Slowey versus the 5 starters who made the rotation. (Slowey got sent to the bullpen).

Yeah, remember that last one, where they said we have a surplus of quality starting pitching so we'll have a battle to see who the top 5 are...a surplus of pitching...yeah right
Dont believe Gardy ever lets players win a job in spring training.....tho they can lose it. Ive always thought Gardy knows his 25 guys coming into camp......believe Hendiks has the 5th spot and its his to lose, again if he's not dealt

USAFChief
11-28-2012, 03:12 PM
5th starter? As I write this post he's the number 2 starter. Maybe 3 if you plan on Gibson making the rotation out of ST.

Twins Twerp
11-28-2012, 03:18 PM
He is probably going to battle with those names you mentioned for the 4th and 5th spot. Finding 3 starting pitchers is just too hard to do in one offseason (and most us, me included, want 4 new starters). We might bring in one bigger type name (Haren, Sanchez, etc.) but we may end up with our number 2 signing being a Liriano type guy. I would not be mad if we ended up with Haren, Liriano, and McCarthy. Has anyone guessed we would get both Liriano AND McCarthy?

I shall be the first then. We will sign both pitchers for a combined 12 million. I will not say it is a done deal (thrylos) but I will predict it.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
11-28-2012, 04:11 PM
He is probably going to battle with those names you mentioned for the 4th and 5th spot. Finding 3 starting pitchers is just too hard to do in one offseason (and most us, me included, want 4 new starters). We might bring in one bigger type name (Haren, Sanchez, etc.) but we may end up with our number 2 signing being a Liriano type guy. I would not be mad if we ended up with Haren, Liriano, and McCarthy. Has anyone guessed we would get both Liriano AND McCarthy?

I shall be the first then. We will sign both pitchers for a combined 12 million. I will not say it is a done deal (thrylos) but I will predict it.

Love the Thrylos reference. But with all do respect i hope the Liriano part of your prediction is DEAD WRONG!

Kwak
11-28-2012, 04:13 PM
Back to Hendriks: I fail to see what the rest of you see in Hendriks. Struggle would be a euphemism to describe his 2012 ML experience. I did not see any "out" pitch in his "reportaire" and his fastball is ordinary. The Twins have had many of their pitchers dominate at Rochester only to fail in Minneapolis--and so far he is but another. Recall that Blackburn was dominant in Rochester after his demotion last year so I can not justify him as a "given" in the rotation. However, I noticed something in DeVries and Deduno that I didn't see all that often in other Twins' pitchers--guts. They fought! Rarely did they just give up and pour down the middle. They stayed with "their stuff" and tried to throw quality strikes. Sure they walked some--but contrast their results with that of Blackburn, Manship, or the rest of the PtoC guys. Most of the pitchers I observed in the playoffs this year used the same strategy--they were just a good deal better than Deduno/DeVries. I've seen enough of those who just give in and pound down the middle and hope for the best.

LaBombo
11-28-2012, 04:47 PM
Back to Hendriks: I fail to see what the rest of you see in Hendriks. Struggle would be a euphemism to describe his 2012 ML experience. I did not see any "out" pitch in his "reportaire" and his fastball is ordinary. The Twins have had many of their pitchers dominate at Rochester only to fail in Minneapolis--and so far he is but another. Recall that Blackburn was dominant in Rochester after his demotion last year so I can not justify him as a "given" in the rotation. However, I noticed something in DeVries and Deduno that I didn't see all that often in other Twins' pitchers--guts. They fought! Rarely did they just give up and pour down the middle. They stayed with "their stuff" and tried to throw quality strikes. Sure they walked some--but contrast their results with that of Blackburn, Manship, or the rest of the PtoC guys. Most of the pitchers I observed in the playoffs this year used the same strategy--they were just a good deal better than Deduno/DeVries. I've seen enough of those who just give in and pound down the middle and hope for the best.

You might want to lighten up on Hendriks a bit. After all, the kid had a whopping three years of full season pro baseball prior to the 2012 season. Three. Freaking. Seasons.

Hendriks and DeVries had very similar 2012 seasons. DeVries had slightly better peripherals, they both got killed by the long ball, and they posted nearly identical xFips of 4.75 and 4.72 respectively. The HUGE difference is that Hendriks, who turns 24 in February, is four years younger than DeVries and was more successful in the minors.

And there's a reason why Hendriks is on the 40 and Sam 'Slayer of Mascots' Deduno isn't. You just don't last in the major if you're just as likely to walk a batter as strike them out. He may suddenly discover control before his time runs out, but I wouldn't bet on it for a guy who turns 30 next summer. And apparently neither are the Twins, or for that matter, every other team in baseball.

twinsnorth49
11-28-2012, 10:01 PM
If Hendriks has a strong spring he gets the nod before Deduno or Walters and likely Devries. I have faith he can put it together to be a reliable starter, he has the pitches, he just needs to stop nibbling and throw strikes to get ahead of hitters. His best start of the year was his 3 hit, complete game against the Mariners and that's exactly what he did, it allowed him to mix it up and get guys off his fastball.

Kwak
11-28-2012, 10:38 PM
Back to Hendriks: I fail to see what the rest of you see in Hendriks. Struggle would be a euphemism to describe his 2012 ML experience. I did not see any "out" pitch in his "reportaire" and his fastball is ordinary. The Twins have had many of their pitchers dominate at Rochester only to fail in Minneapolis--and so far he is but another. Recall that Blackburn was dominant in Rochester after his demotion last year so I can not justify him as a "given" in the rotation. However, I noticed something in DeVries and Deduno that I didn't see all that often in other Twins' pitchers--guts. They fought! Rarely did they just give up and pour down the middle. They stayed with "their stuff" and tried to throw quality strikes. Sure they walked some--but contrast their results with that of Blackburn, Manship, or the rest of the PtoC guys. Most of the pitchers I observed in the playoffs this year used the same strategy--they were just a good deal better than Deduno/DeVries. I've seen enough of those who just give in and pound down the middle and hope for the best.

You might want to lighten up on Hendriks a bit. After all, the kid had a whopping three years of full season pro baseball prior to the 2012 season. Three. Freaking. Seasons.

Hendriks and DeVries had very similar 2012 seasons. DeVries had slightly better peripherals, they both got killed by the long ball, and they posted nearly identical xFips of 4.75 and 4.72 respectively. The HUGE difference is that Hendriks, who turns 24 in February, is four years younger than DeVries and was more successful in the minors.

And there's a reason why Hendriks is on the 40 and Sam 'Slayer of Mascots' Deduno isn't. You just don't last in the major if you're just as likely to walk a batter as strike them out. He may suddenly discover control before his time runs out, but I wouldn't bet on it for a guy who turns 30 next summer. And apparently neither are the Twins, or for that matter, every other team in baseball.

There sure is a reason--hendricks pitches "the Twins way", and Deduno doesn't! The Twins require a guy to "pound the strike zone, and trust in 'stuff'." Hence, Blackburn, Slowey etal. BTW, I didn't criticize Hendriks--I merely pointed out facts--his major league experience was dreadful (1-12). That has to rattle a guy! I didn't say "deep six him", I am saying he shouldn't be penciled into the rotation.

jorgenswest
11-28-2012, 10:52 PM
Hendriks may not be ready.

Viola wasn't ready. Radke wasn't ready. They needed 50+ starts and it was their third full season before the Twins got the real payoff. The Twins received no pay off from Santana until year 3.

I don't think that Radke or Viola would have been allowed to work through their struggles with the current management and fan base. They would have bounced back and forth to AAA. Imagine the posts we would have read about them on this site.

I don't know if there is a pay off coming in Hendriks future. If the Twins scouts believe he has a solid future as a starter the Twins need to invest the starts.

If this site is representative of the Twins fan base, I don't think there is much willingness to be patient. I fear the management will listen to the fans and sign decline phase pitchers that have a better chance of being mediocre without any upside in the future.

mnfanforlife
11-29-2012, 10:52 AM
I completely agree...until the Twins sign someone "better" Hendriks and Gibson are the #2 and 3 best pitchers we have right now

mnfanforlife
11-29-2012, 11:18 AM
5th starter? As I write this post he's the number 2 starter. Maybe 3 if you plan on Gibson making the rotation out of ST.

Who does the organization have that is better? Nobody that is near MLB ready..thats for sure

raindog
11-30-2012, 04:03 AM
I fully expect the rotation to include Diamond, Gibson, and Hendricks. Those guys, if healthy, need to pitch at the MLB level. If we can sign two veterans, I think we have a solid (not great), rotation. Say,

Sanchez
McCarthy
Diamond
Gibson
Hendricks

With Deduno, DeVries, and Walters when needed. I'm probably dreaming with Sanchez, but maybe a guy like Haren would be realistic. Not saying this rotation would make the Twins contenders, but it's a rotation that could make them competitors. Without really disrupting the rebuild.

Brock Beauchamp
11-30-2012, 08:04 AM
With Deduno, DeVries, and Walters when needed. I'm probably dreaming with Sanchez, but maybe a guy like Haren would be realistic. Not saying this rotation would make the Twins contenders, but it's a rotation that could make them competitors. Without really disrupting the rebuild.

It would probably help the rebuild. With Span gone and Morneau one foot out the door, the Twins are going to have a lot of payroll flexibility. To get a guy like Jackson, Sanchez, or Greinke, it's going to take at least four years. That puts the contract through 2016 at the very least. That's smack in the middle of when the team should expect a productive Gibson, Hicks, Arcia, etc. to be on the team.

Sssuperdave
11-30-2012, 08:19 AM
Dont believe Gardy ever lets players win a job in spring training.....tho they can lose it. Ive always thought Gardy knows his 25 guys coming into camp......believe Hendiks has the 5th spot and its his to lose, again if he's not dealt


I agree with this. As has already been pointed out the last few times there was a spring training "competition" for a spot, the player that played the best in spring training didn't get the spot. In my opinion, this is as it should be. It makes more sense to rely on a multiple year body of work (including minor leagues) than a few weeks in March when making these decisions. Based on that I do think Hendricks has a spot sown up. It might seem silly since he struggled last year, but he is more of a long term solution that Deduno, Devries, Walters, etc, and doesn't really need any more seasoning. Of course, if he continues struggling in April and May he should probably go back down to AAA the tune things up, but coming out of the gate I think it's his job to lose.