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View Full Version : Torii Hunter signs 2 year deal with Detroit



YourHouseIsMyHouse
11-14-2012, 11:21 AM
We are going to see a lot of him now, but not back in a Twins uniform.

Seth Stohs
11-14-2012, 11:26 AM
Source, that I've seen, is Ken Rosenthal...

chagen
11-14-2012, 11:27 AM
Must be nice to have a owner that is willing to spend money to win. While the Twins wait it out and hope to find bargains in the pitching department.

Seth Stohs
11-14-2012, 11:27 AM
I like the idea of seeing the downside of his career up close, in the division. That said, with the Tigers pitching staff, and their lineup which next year will bring back Victor Martinez and bring in Torii Hunter. They may have a nice run left in them!

John Bonnes
11-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Two takes....

1. Lord, is it ever going to end with Ilitch? They were at $133M last year, which was a top 5 payroll. I don't think they're losing any really big deals, and now they replace Delmon with Hunter?

2. Does the insane interest in Hunter so far this offseason mean that there is a tremendous market for trading Willingham? Other than Hunter, the only pretty big free agent bats out there are Hamilton (crazy expensive) and Swisher (probably gets a four year deal.) If I'm a GM looking to add some power to my OF, doesn't Willlingham's 2-year, $14M deal look crazy good right now?

minn55441
11-14-2012, 11:32 AM
Great move by the Tigers. Improvement in defense, potent lineup and probably more importantly I think he will be a great veteran influence in the clubhouse.

COtwin
11-14-2012, 11:33 AM
Wow! Detroit is gonna be a handful next year. It's scary to think that they are going to be deep enough to handle some prolonged slumps. Imagine having Torii Hunter as a back up luxury. It must be nice.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
11-14-2012, 11:36 AM
This is a mighty upgrade from Delmon "Im to fat to have a good OBP" Young. Replacing Young with Hunter is a very good deal for the Tigers.

John Bonnes- The Tigers Owner is getting old. I dont know if you saw him after the ALCS, but this guy looks like he could croak at any time. He wants to see a World Series team desperately.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
11-14-2012, 11:37 AM
Source, that I've seen, is Ken Rosenthal...

Jerry Crasnick as well

COtwin
11-14-2012, 11:38 AM
Two takes....

1. Lord, is it ever going to end with Ilitch? They were at $133M last year, which was a top 5 payroll. I don't think they're losing any really big deals, and now they replace Delmon with Hunter?

2. Does the insane interest in Hunter so far this offseason mean that there is a tremendous market for trading Willingham? Other than Hunter, the only pretty big free agent bats out there are Hamilton (crazy expensive) and Swisher (probably gets a four year deal.) If I'm a GM looking to add some power to my OF, doesn't Willlingham's 2-year, $14M deal look crazy good right now?



I used to think that trading Willingham was a good idea, now I am not so sure. Detroit is going to own this division for a few more years and slap hitters are not going to beat them regularly. I like a good OBP but we need the power Josh provides.

chagen
11-14-2012, 11:39 AM
A world series team that just got better! Reminder to Twins fans we have the ability to sign anybody we want there is no salary cap in baseball there is just the Pohlad cap.

If were not going to go out and get some quality starting pitching than why keep willingham? Why not trade him for some decent prospects? Same with Morneau see if we can get some decent prospects? I'd be interested to hear what people think.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
11-14-2012, 11:40 AM
2 year 26 million dollar deal. Wholly cow, not a signifcant drop off of pay from his Angel Contract.

powrwrap
11-14-2012, 11:47 AM
2 year 26 million dollar deal. Wholly cow, not a signifcant drop off of pay from his Angel Contract.

Yes, and some people on this board thought he was worth $4 - $6 Million a year.

Brock Beauchamp
11-14-2012, 11:49 AM
2 year 26 million dollar deal. Wholly cow, not a signifcant drop off of pay from his Angel Contract.

That's absurd. Hunter posted a 5.5 WAR last season after falling to a WAR of ~3 (give or take half a point) in the previous two seasons. Given his age and ever-decreasing range, I think it's almost a given that he will not repeat his 2012 numbers with the Tigers.

Still, kudos to Ilitch for not giving up on that quest for a ring. When you're that old and that rich, who gives a damn how much you spend?

Seth Stohs
11-14-2012, 11:49 AM
Two takes....

1. Lord, is it ever going to end with Ilitch? They were at $133M last year, which was a top 5 payroll. I don't think they're losing any really big deals, and now they replace Delmon with Hunter?

2. Does the insane interest in Hunter so far this offseason mean that there is a tremendous market for trading Willingham? Other than Hunter, the only pretty big free agent bats out there are Hamilton (crazy expensive) and Swisher (probably gets a four year deal.) If I'm a GM looking to add some power to my OF, doesn't Willlingham's 2-year, $14M deal look crazy good right now?



I used to think that trading Willingham was a good idea, now I am not so sure. Detroit is going to own this division for a few more years and slap hitters are not going to beat them regularly. I like a good OBP but we need the power Josh provides.

If this move doesn't cement that the Twins should build for 2014 and 2015, I don't know what else would convince Twins fans...

Linus
11-14-2012, 12:21 PM
Two takes....

1. Lord, is it ever going to end with Ilitch? They were at $133M last year, which was a top 5 payroll. I don't think they're losing any really big deals, and now they replace Delmon with Hunter?

2. Does the insane interest in Hunter so far this offseason mean that there is a tremendous market for trading Willingham? Other than Hunter, the only pretty big free agent bats out there are Hamilton (crazy expensive) and Swisher (probably gets a four year deal.) If I'm a GM looking to add some power to my OF, doesn't Willlingham's 2-year, $14M deal look crazy good right now?



I used to think that trading Willingham was a good idea, now I am not so sure. Detroit is going to own this division for a few more years and slap hitters are not going to beat them regularly. I like a good OBP but we need the power Josh provides.

If this move doesn't cement that the Twins should build for 2014 and 2015, I don't know what else would convince Twins fans...

Really Seth?
Torii Hunter? - he of 37 years old, declining range and 16 homers has pushed you over the edge into throwing in the towel for next year? I usually am on the same page as your takes but I don't get this one. Delmon is likely to put up better offensive numbers next year (we won't go there on defense). At $13 mil per, they can have him. There is a better than even chance that one or both of the years is a complete waste either due to injury or just plain old losing the skills due to age.

minn55441
11-14-2012, 12:29 PM
Torii is a great upgrade. V-mart will get most of his at bats as a DH. That leaves no room for Delmon. Tori will get his AB's in the outfield. I would think they could play him in both left and right. In either spot he will probably be a better defensive player than we will put out there with Parmelee and Willingham.

I wonder if the Hammer and Morny will have more trade value at the deadline next year or right now? I think we can pencil in the Tigers for a few years at the top of the central. We need to start trading for pitching with an eye on 2014 and beyond.

Linus
11-14-2012, 12:38 PM
Torii is a great upgrade. V-mart will get most of his at bats as a DH. That leaves no room for Delmon. Tori will get his AB's in the outfield. I would think they could play him in both left and right. In either spot he will probably be a better defensive player than we will put out there with Parmelee and Willingham.

I wonder if the Hammer and Morny will have more trade value at the deadline next year or right now? I think we can pencil in the Tigers for a few years at the top of the central. We need to start trading for pitching with an eye on 2014 and beyond.

I'm a Torii fan but the fact is he is no longer an elite player - too many people are basing this on what they remember about Torii, not what he will be next year as a 38 year old. He's clearly an upgrade over Delmon in the field - at the plate it will be a wash. This improves the Tigers but this simply is not a signing that makes your opponents completely change course.

Kobs
11-14-2012, 12:44 PM
Hunter had an .817 OPS last year with a .389 BABIP. Gross.

ThePuck
11-14-2012, 12:49 PM
2 year 26 million dollar deal. Wholly cow, not a signifcant drop off of pay from his Angel Contract.

That's absurd. Hunter posted a 5.5 WAR last season after falling to a WAR of ~3 (give or take half a point) in the previous two seasons. Given his age and ever-decreasing range, I think it's almost a given that he will not repeat his 2012 numbers with the Tigers.

Still, kudos to Ilitch for not giving up on that quest for a ring. When you're that old and that rich, who gives a damn how much you spend?

Must have been nice to hit behind Trout...and in front of Pujols. Maybe that was part of it? Now he gets to hit behind AJax and in front of Cabrera...not all that bad either...

ThePuck
11-14-2012, 12:51 PM
Tigers underperformed in the first half...played to their talent in the 2nd half...and now they improve their RF situation AND get VMart back.

Gonna be hard to beat

Winston Smith
11-14-2012, 01:13 PM
He may not repeat this year and he may never be what he was a few years ago but will he be an upgrade? For sure! Delmon is gone and they replace him with Hunter by any account a better player and they add 6 mill over what they paid Delmon. Seems like a good swap.

An owner that isn't afraid to spend money, must be nice.

nicksaviking
11-14-2012, 01:48 PM
2 year 26 million dollar deal. Wholly cow, not a signifcant drop off of pay from his Angel Contract.

That's absurd. Hunter posted a 5.5 WAR last season after falling to a WAR of ~3 (give or take half a point) in the previous two seasons. Given his age and ever-decreasing range, I think it's almost a given that he will not repeat his 2012 numbers with the Tigers.

Still, kudos to Ilitch for not giving up on that quest for a ring. When you're that old and that rich, who gives a damn how much you spend?

Carl Pohlad, that's who. The Twins were in the same position with an elderly owner who knew his time was up in any minute. He didn't increase payroll to win, instead he leveraged his pending demise against the threat that no one knew if the family would keep the team (?!don't move our Twins?!) to get a new tax payer funded stadium.

Jim Crikket
11-14-2012, 02:02 PM
Two takes....

1. Lord, is it ever going to end with Ilitch? They were at $133M last year, which was a top 5 payroll. I don't think they're losing any really big deals, and now they replace Delmon with Hunter?

2. Does the insane interest in Hunter so far this offseason mean that there is a tremendous market for trading Willingham? Other than Hunter, the only pretty big free agent bats out there are Hamilton (crazy expensive) and Swisher (probably gets a four year deal.) If I'm a GM looking to add some power to my OF, doesn't Willlingham's 2-year, $14M deal look crazy good right now?



I used to think that trading Willingham was a good idea, now I am not so sure. Detroit is going to own this division for a few more years and slap hitters are not going to beat them regularly. I like a good OBP but we need the power Josh provides.

If this move doesn't cement that the Twins should build for 2014 and 2015, I don't know what else would convince Twins fans...

Really Seth?
Torii Hunter? - he of 37 years old, declining range and 16 homers has pushed you over the edge into throwing in the towel for next year? I usually am on the same page as your takes but I don't get this one. Delmon is likely to put up better offensive numbers next year (we won't go there on defense). At $13 mil per, they can have him. There is a better than even chance that one or both of the years is a complete waste either due to injury or just plain old losing the skills due to age.

Yeah I think that's putting an awful lot of value on Hunter, too, Seth. Did anyone really think the Tigers WEREN'T going to try to improve on Delmon Young in their outfield? Acting like they just added Hamilton or something is a little over the top.

You don't send up a white flag in November. The Twins have a ton of money to spend, too, if they want to do it. I don't know what the hell "building for 2014" even means. They have little to no decent starting pitching in the organization that will be top of the rotation quality by 2014, either, so if they aren't willing to go out and get that now, what the hell makes anyone think they would do so in 2014?

The Twins have no excuse for not being a team that reloads, rather than rebuilds. They can and should be expected to compete EVERY season and when they don't, they should be expected to address any shortcomings immediately. Using money as an excuse for not doing so should have stopped the moment the trucks drove away from the loading docks at the Metrodome. It's becoming tougher to understand how so many otherwise knowledgable fans are continuing to buy the line of crap the Twins front office spouts about payroll limits and revenues.

ThePuck
11-14-2012, 04:11 PM
Would it shock anyone to see the Tigers make a big splash for a pitcher? Say, Grienke? Owner wants to win NOW!

Seth Stohs
11-14-2012, 04:17 PM
Hunter is better than Delmon. He also gets a guy like Brennan Boesch out of the lineup. Meanwhile Victor Martinez takes over for Delmon at the DH. I'm not a big Torii Hunter fan at all, and it's far too many dollars.

So, I do think this move makes the Tigers a little bit better. Not a ton. Based on the fact that they were 20 games better than the Twins last year (and that's likely because they didn't really come together as a good team until late in the season), my thinking all along has been that they should be shooting for 2014 or 2015 to compete.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
11-14-2012, 04:28 PM
Would it shock anyone to see the Tigers make a big splash for a pitcher? Say, Grienke? Owner wants to win NOW!

After the Prince Fielder signing, nothing would surprise me anymore.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
11-14-2012, 04:31 PM
Hunter is better than Delmon. He also gets a guy like Brennan Boesch out of the lineup. Meanwhile Victor Martinez takes over for Delmon at the DH. I'm not a big Torii Hunter fan at all, and it's far too many dollars.

So, I do think this move makes the Tigers a little bit better. Not a ton. Based on the fact that they were 20 games better than the Twins last year (and that's likely because they didn't really come together as a good team until late in the season), my thinking all along has been that they should be shooting for 2014 or 2015 to compete.

Exactly shoot to compete in 2014 or 2015, we arent going anywhere this year, but we can be optimistic ;)

minn55441
11-14-2012, 05:02 PM
Sounds as if Torii made the decision, before any calls or offers were made. Here is the link.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/scott-miller/20980798/the-tale-of-torii-the-tiger

Hunter phoned general manager Dave Dombrowski and invited himself to town. So the Hunters arrive in Detroit on Tuesday, word leaks, and now Larry Reynolds' cell phone starts blowing up with texts.

Reynolds is Hunter's agent. And, suddenly, he now has several clubs jockeying for position via text, wanting to make sure they get a chance to talk with Hunter before any decision is made. What they don't know, and what Reynolds -- who also is in Detroit -- now must tell them is, forget it.

minn55441
11-14-2012, 05:14 PM
I think the addition of Hunter makes the Tigers much better. He will add a lot to the team attitude, something I think the Twins lost when he left. Although on the downside of his career, he still has above average skills in both the field and at the plate. Even with the addition of four quality starters by the twins, I would still give the Tigers the edge over us heading into the season.

I can only speak for myself, but by saying we have to shoot for 2014 and 2015, I am saying that we have to sign pitchers that are perhaps younger and will peak in two to three years as apposed to someone that is an established major league pitcher who is on the downside of their career. I don't see value in signing a Pavano type FA that will eat innings this year, but will age and his skills will deteriorate to the point that he will be even less effective when we will really need good pitching in 2014 and 2015.

SDTwinsFan
11-14-2012, 05:23 PM
Doesn't this deal make trading Span or Willingham a more worthwhile thought? If teams are throwing around $13 mil for Torii, I imagine Bourne and Upton are going to get PAID. Span and Willingham with their respective contracts are going to look VERY appealing soon.

ThePuck
11-14-2012, 05:24 PM
Doesn't this deal make trading Span or Willingham a more worthwhile thought? If teams are throwing around $13 mil for Torii, I imagine Bourne and Upton are going to get PAID. Span and Willingham with their respective contracts are going to look VERY appealing soon.

Been saying that all along..especially Span.

Kobs
11-14-2012, 11:36 PM
Hunter is better than Delmon. He also gets a guy like Brennan Boesch out of the lineup. Meanwhile Victor Martinez takes over for Delmon at the DH. I'm not a big Torii Hunter fan at all, and it's far too many dollars.

So, I do think this move makes the Tigers a little bit better. Not a ton. Based on the fact that they were 20 games better than the Twins last year (and that's likely because they didn't really come together as a good team until late in the season), my thinking all along has been that they should be shooting for 2014 or 2015 to compete.

Hunter was better than Young in 2012, I don't think that's anywhere near a certainty in 2013. Hunter is old and had an extremely lucky season.

You're also looking at this the wrong way, the opportunity cost of this move is what will really hurt the Tigers. What else could they have gotten for $13,000,000 over the next two years? Can you get, for example, Nick Swisher (a significantly better bet to help your team) for that?

SpiritofVodkaDave
11-15-2012, 02:10 AM
Hunter is better than Delmon. He also gets a guy like Brennan Boesch out of the lineup. Meanwhile Victor Martinez takes over for Delmon at the DH. I'm not a big Torii Hunter fan at all, and it's far too many dollars.

So, I do think this move makes the Tigers a little bit better. Not a ton. Based on the fact that they were 20 games better than the Twins last year (and that's likely because they didn't really come together as a good team until late in the season), my thinking all along has been that they should be shooting for 2014 or 2015 to compete.

Hunter was better than Young in 2012, I don't think that's anywhere near a certainty in 2013. Hunter is old and had an extremely lucky season.

You're also looking at this the wrong way, the opportunity cost of this move is what will really hurt the Tigers. What else could they have gotten for $13,000,000 over the next two years? Can you get, for example, Nick Swisher (a significantly better bet to help your team) for that?

FWIW Swisher is looking for "Jayson Werth money." Though 2/26 for Hunter is very absurd, I was thinking he would be lucky to get a 1/8 deal or a 2/14.

Cody Christie
11-15-2012, 07:01 AM
I thought he might get another year on the deal but it sounds like he wants tot try and win a championship in Detroit.

powrwrap
11-15-2012, 10:21 AM
FWIW Swisher is looking for "Jayson Werth money." Though 2/26 for Hunter is very absurd, I was thinking he would be lucky to get a 1/8 deal or a 2/14.

Interesting.

Back in July I brought up the possibility of the Twins getting Hunter and here's what you said:


1 year yes. 2 years? no way.

1 year 4-5 mil sounds about right. He could play a solid RF and fill in at DH when needed.

twinsdaily.com/showthread.php?2370-Torii-Hunter-and-the-Twins-in-2013

SpiritofVodkaDave
11-15-2012, 10:38 AM
FWIW Swisher is looking for "Jayson Werth money." Though 2/26 for Hunter is very absurd, I was thinking he would be lucky to get a 1/8 deal or a 2/14.

Interesting.

Back in July I brought up the possibility of the Twins getting Hunter and here's what you said:


1 year yes. 2 years? no way.

1 year 4-5 mil sounds about right. He could play a solid RF and fill in at DH when needed.

twinsdaily.com/showthread.php?2370-Torii-Hunter-and-the-Twins-in-2013
and?
That is what I felt comfortable with giving him and still would, when I said I thought he would be lucky to get 1/8 or 2/14 that is on the open market. Give me Willingham at 3/21 any day of the week over those options.

I sure as hell wouldn't give Hunter 2 years here or even a one year deal approaching the salary he got, and only advocated bringing him in if Span/Revere were traded and Hicks/Arcia weren't ready.

This is a stupid deal for the Tigers IMO.

Kobs
11-15-2012, 11:22 AM
Swisher can be looking for whatever he wants.