PDA

View Full Version : Span at the top of the Braves list



SpiritofVodkaDave
11-09-2012, 12:20 AM
According to mlbtraderumors the Braves are going to be looking heavily at a CF to replace Bourn and Span is at the top of the list. I'm not going to mention all the arms the Braves have since we have gone over them time and time again in the Willingham thread, but wonder if we can get a better package for Span then Willingham, I am guessing that the haul would be significantly greater.

Twins Twerp
11-09-2012, 08:37 AM
Execs dont think the hammer as valuable because his defense is atrocious. Best bet is to wait until midseason when teams are desperate for a right handed power bat. Trade span now and then see if u can get a pitching prospect in july for willingham the great

Kwak
11-09-2012, 09:09 AM
Execs dont think the hammer as valuable because his defense is atrocious. Best bet is to wait until midseason when teams are desperate for a right handed power bat. Trade span now and then see if u can get a pitching prospect in july for willingham the great

In July only a couple of teams looking to add, but before April many teams need a power hitter. But if trading Span is their preference--so be it! The Twins have a bevy of other CF options, but power hitting options?--none.

Twins Twerp
11-09-2012, 09:41 AM
Execs dont think the hammer as valuable because his defense is atrocious. Best bet is to wait until midseason when teams are desperate for a right handed power bat. Trade span now and then see if u can get a pitching prospect in july for willingham the great

In July only a couple of teams looking to add, but before April many teams need a power hitter. But if trading Span is their preference--so be it! The Twins have a bevy of other CF options, but power hitting options?--none.

I am going to have to disagree with you on that. Teams are going to be able to go out and sign anyone they want before April. With two extra teams making the playoffs, I see the demand for Power higher in July. I don't see anyone yearning for Hammer as you may be able to find someone who can hit AND play defense. Once the season starts we will see injury as well as players underperforming. A bat like Willinghams will come in handy then and teams may disregard his defense.

CF seems to be much more important to these teams and after Bourn and Hamilton are gone Span might be next. If a team calls on Revere and offers a decent package or a pitcher, take it.

kab21
11-09-2012, 09:43 AM
In July only a couple of teams looking to add, but before April many teams need a power hitter. But if trading Span is their preference--so be it! The Twins have a bevy of other CF options, but power hitting options?--none.

This actually isn't true. Teams make other moves in the offseason to fill corner OF spots. Frequently they put in washed up vets (for example RonDL White) and sometimes they put in unproven youngsters (Chris Parmelee). Sometimes they get a rebound or a breakout and sometimes they have an awful hole in their lineup and they are willing to overpay for a good bat. Of course Willingham could get injured...

biggentleben
11-09-2012, 09:52 AM
The comment was pasted into the Willingham thread, and it never said Span was "the top" of the list, just that he would be high on the list.

SpiritofVodkaDave
11-09-2012, 10:07 AM
In July only a couple of teams looking to add, but before April many teams need a power hitter. But if trading Span is their preference--so be it! The Twins have a bevy of other CF options, but power hitting options?--none.

This actually isn't true. Teams make other moves in the offseason to fill corner OF spots. Frequently they put in washed up vets (for example RonDL White) and sometimes they put in unproven youngsters (Chris Parmelee). Sometimes they get a rebound or a breakout and sometimes they have an awful hole in their lineup and they are willing to overpay for a good bat. Of course Willingham could get injured...
Yup this is why we were able to get Willingham in the first place. Teams are learning they don't need to over pay to get corner OF's with a bat. Hell I still can't believe Werth got that much money.

Twins Twerp
11-09-2012, 10:20 AM
The Werth deal was a terrible deal. I remember thinking that it was when it happened, and I still think it today. In fact, I thought it would hinder the Nationals for years. Turns out I was wrong as the Naionals are still spending money and might have the brightest future of any team in the Majors.

John Bonnes
11-09-2012, 10:36 AM
I wonder if the answer isn't a little more nebulous and based on supply and demand. This year, it seems like there are a few teams that are losing their center fielders and looking for a cheap replacement (Braves, Rays, Mets? Phillies?), so there is a good demand and a short supply. (Is there really anyone besided Span and maybe Victorino that fit that bill?)

When it comes to power corner guys, there are more guys than Willingham on the list right now - Choo and Hunter certainly spring to mind. So maybe for now, Span is more valuable, but later, when some teams miss out on the other big names, Willingham looks more appealing.

Kind of a half-baked analysis, but it does seem like the aggressive teams are chasing CFers now.

Brock Beauchamp
11-09-2012, 10:45 AM
Kind of a half-baked analysis, but it does seem like the aggressive teams are chasing CFers now.

I was worried that the opposite would be true. I'm just glad that this situation appears to be swinging to the Twins' favor. In a typical market, it would be pretty damned hard to move Span for starting pitching but with teams aggressively pursuing CF help, it might be possible.

biggentleben
11-09-2012, 10:53 AM
I wonder if the answer isn't a little more nebulous and based on supply and demand. This year, it seems like there are a few teams that are losing their center fielders and looking for a cheap replacement (Braves, Rays, Mets? Phillies?), so there is a good demand and a short supply. (Is there really anyone besided Span and maybe Victorino that fit that bill?)

When it comes to power corner guys, there are more guys than Willingham on the list right now - Choo and Hunter certainly spring to mind. So maybe for now, Span is more valuable, but later, when some teams miss out on the other big names, Willingham looks more appealing.

Kind of a half-baked analysis, but it does seem like the aggressive teams are chasing CFers now.

Depends on where you're looking...

CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.

CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.

nicksaviking
11-09-2012, 11:39 AM
Kind of a half-baked analysis, but it does seem like the aggressive teams are chasing CFers now.

I was worried that the opposite would be true. I'm just glad that this situation appears to be swinging to the Twins' favor. In a typical market, it would be pretty damned hard to move Span for starting pitching but with teams aggressively pursuing CF help, it might be possible.

Yeah, I can't remember the last time the Twins had the upper hand on the supply/demand scale and were motivated to trade. The Twins probably haven't had a high-value chip affordable to all 30 teams since Matt Garza. Before that it was probably AJ Pierzynski. Let's hope this plays out more like the latter deal.

Also, is it out of the question to require Span to wear a bike helmet at all times between now and whenever he takes his hypothetical physical?

SpiritofVodkaDave
11-09-2012, 11:44 AM
I wonder if the answer isn't a little more nebulous and based on supply and demand. This year, it seems like there are a few teams that are losing their center fielders and looking for a cheap replacement (Braves, Rays, Mets? Phillies?), so there is a good demand and a short supply. (Is there really anyone besided Span and maybe Victorino that fit that bill?)

When it comes to power corner guys, there are more guys than Willingham on the list right now - Choo and Hunter certainly spring to mind. So maybe for now, Span is more valuable, but later, when some teams miss out on the other big names, Willingham looks more appealing.

Kind of a half-baked analysis, but it does seem like the aggressive teams are chasing CFers now.

Depends on where you're looking...

CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.

CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
You realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.

biggentleben
11-09-2012, 12:53 PM
I wonder if the answer isn't a little more nebulous and based on supply and demand. This year, it seems like there are a few teams that are losing their center fielders and looking for a cheap replacement (Braves, Rays, Mets? Phillies?), so there is a good demand and a short supply. (Is there really anyone besided Span and maybe Victorino that fit that bill?)

When it comes to power corner guys, there are more guys than Willingham on the list right now - Choo and Hunter certainly spring to mind. So maybe for now, Span is more valuable, but later, when some teams miss out on the other big names, Willingham looks more appealing.

Kind of a half-baked analysis, but it does seem like the aggressive teams are chasing CFers now.

Depends on where you're looking...

CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.

CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
You realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.

Fowler's been strongly rumored in a move for pitching as the Rockies have some depth at the position ready to hit the majors (he's also a Georgia boy, so there's some ties that could lead to stronger interest by the Braves in Fowler than Span). However, note that other than Span and Fowler, I listed that the rest of that list COULD be available, not that they all were. As far as Pierre and Ichiro in CF, I wouldn't want them in CF for a team I was rooting for, for sure, but I could absolutely see some team thinking they could strike one last nugget of gold out of those guys in that position.

SpiritofVodkaDave
11-09-2012, 02:01 PM
I wonder if the answer isn't a little more nebulous and based on supply and demand. This year, it seems like there are a few teams that are losing their center fielders and looking for a cheap replacement (Braves, Rays, Mets? Phillies?), so there is a good demand and a short supply. (Is there really anyone besided Span and maybe Victorino that fit that bill?)

When it comes to power corner guys, there are more guys than Willingham on the list right now - Choo and Hunter certainly spring to mind. So maybe for now, Span is more valuable, but later, when some teams miss out on the other big names, Willingham looks more appealing.

Kind of a half-baked analysis, but it does seem like the aggressive teams are chasing CFers now.

Depends on where you're looking...

CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.

CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
You realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.

Fowler's been strongly rumored in a move for pitching as the Rockies have some depth at the position ready to hit the majors (he's also a Georgia boy, so there's some ties that could lead to stronger interest by the Braves in Fowler than Span). However, note that other than Span and Fowler, I listed that the rest of that list COULD be available, not that they all were. As far as Pierre and Ichiro in CF, I wouldn't want them in CF for a team I was rooting for, for sure, but I could absolutely see some team thinking they could strike one last nugget of gold out of those guys in that position.

What does him being a Georgia boy have anything to do with him being traded? If you are talking about a contract extension with him, fine that has merit, but the "they would prefer fowler over span because of his home state" is a little ridiculous.

Also you realize Pierre hasn't played CF regularly in 5 years? And only played 3 full games at CF in the past 4 years. Which club is going to pencil him in for CF? And if there is a team dumb enough to do that, they aren't really going to be a trade partner/target for us anyways. Ditto with Ichiro, he has played 5 games in CF in the past 4 years.

That's like claiming Michael Cuddyer is viable candidate for a starting 2B/SS role.

Bark's Lounge
11-09-2012, 03:38 PM
I wonder if the answer isn't a little more nebulous and based on supply and demand. This year, it seems like there are a few teams that are losing their center fielders and looking for a cheap replacement (Braves, Rays, Mets? Phillies?), so there is a good demand and a short supply. (Is there really anyone besided Span and maybe Victorino that fit that bill?)

When it comes to power corner guys, there are more guys than Willingham on the list right now - Choo and Hunter certainly spring to mind. So maybe for now, Span is more valuable, but later, when some teams miss out on the other big names, Willingham looks more appealing.

Kind of a half-baked analysis, but it does seem like the aggressive teams are chasing CFers now.

Depends on where you're looking...

CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.

CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
You realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.

Fowler's been strongly rumored in a move for pitching as the Rockies have some depth at the position ready to hit the majors (he's also a Georgia boy, so there's some ties that could lead to stronger interest by the Braves in Fowler than Span). However, note that other than Span and Fowler, I listed that the rest of that list COULD be available, not that they all were. As far as Pierre and Ichiro in CF, I wouldn't want them in CF for a team I was rooting for, for sure, but I could absolutely see some team thinking they could strike one last nugget of gold out of those guys in that position.

BGB - Who do you like better Bourn or Span? Their stats are fairly comparable - the exception being that Bourn plays a lot more, steals more bases and K's a lot more. Also, what are some realistic scenarios you would like to see play out for ATL this offseason. I like the Braves from afar and am curious to read your opinion and insight.

To everyone else Sorry for getting off point regarding this thread.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
11-09-2012, 03:43 PM
Vodka Dave....I couldnt have said it any better, i was thinking this exact thought when i read this earlier.

TheLeviathan
11-09-2012, 04:01 PM
CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.

CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
You realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.

Below average at best? Plenty of those players are perfectly fine players and possibly a better gamble if you believe Span is somehow going to land you a gem. That kind of pricetag is going to quickly steer people to Gomez, Bourjos, Gutierrez, etc that have bargain written all over them as buy-low options.

We're exaggerating a bit here to believe that Span is somehow a shining beacon of value among this group. He should be in the upper half but hold your horses if you think you're going to put the screws to anyone over him. You can hope to push a bidding war, but that's only going to go so far given the problems with Span. (Concussions, lack of impactful speed, limited home run power) He's got plenty of pluses to his game, but he's not a star. He's a roleplayer, let's keep our expectations sane here.

Bark's Lounge
11-09-2012, 04:21 PM
CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.

CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
You realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.

Below average at best? Plenty of those players are perfectly fine players and possibly a better gamble if you believe Span is somehow going to land you a gem. That kind of pricetag is going to quickly steer people to Gomez, Bourjos, Gutierrez, etc that have bargain written all over them as buy-low options.

We're exaggerating a bit here to believe that Span is somehow a shining beacon of value among this group. He should be in the upper half but hold your horses if you think you're going to put the screws to anyone over him. You can hope to push a bidding war, but that's only going to go so far given the problems with Span. (Concussions, lack of impactful speed, limited home run power) He's got plenty of pluses to his game, but he's not a star. He's a roleplayer, let's keep our expectations sane here.

Well put. I like Span a lot - but like you said his health and overall skill package are not going to fetch you a GREAT prospect. I have made my peace with the Twins probably trading Span this offseason - hopefully they can acquire a young player who can help in a somewhat significant way now, but more importantly post 2013 - and I don't necessarily think it will be a pitcher (hopefully it is). We'll see what happens - but if he is traded, I predict there will be some bummed out Twins fans for a few days in regards to what the Twins returns will be.

SpiritofVodkaDave
11-09-2012, 04:34 PM
CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.

CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
You realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.

Below average at best? Plenty of those players are perfectly fine players and possibly a better gamble if you believe Span is somehow going to land you a gem. That kind of pricetag is going to quickly steer people to Gomez, Bourjos, Gutierrez, etc that have bargain written all over them as buy-low options.

We're exaggerating a bit here to believe that Span is somehow a shining beacon of value among this group. He should be in the upper half but hold your horses if you think you're going to put the screws to anyone over him. You can hope to push a bidding war, but that's only going to go so far given the problems with Span. (Concussions, lack of impactful speed, limited home run power) He's got plenty of pluses to his game, but he's not a star. He's a roleplayer, let's keep our expectations sane here.

Span is a role player? lol He posted a 4 WAR last season, that is a little better then role player.

I never said he is going to bring back some top tier prospect package or whatever, but with his history, contract and ability he should be able to bring back a very attractive package.

Or you can always roll the dice with Carlos Gomez I suppose, let me know how that works out for the next team to sign that disaster.

TheLeviathan
11-09-2012, 07:13 PM
Span is a role player? lol He posted a 4 WAR last season, that is a little better then role player.

I never said he is going to bring back some top tier prospect package or whatever, but with his history, contract and ability he should be able to bring back a very attractive package.

Or you can always roll the dice with Carlos Gomez I suppose, let me know how that works out for the next team to sign that disaster.

The question is pricetag. Span, with his concussions, could easily be a disaster with a much higher price tag. If you want to toss a lower offer and get Bourjos you might buy low and get a steal.

If you want to pick a different term than roleplayer, go ahead. But he's not a star or centerpiece player. He can be a valuable piece, but slow your roll with him.

Thrylos
11-09-2012, 07:26 PM
Span is a role player? lol He posted a 4 WAR last season, that is a little better then role player.

I never said he is going to bring back some top tier prospect package or whatever, but with his history, contract and ability he should be able to bring back a very attractive package.

Or you can always roll the dice with Carlos Gomez I suppose, let me know how that works out for the next team to sign that disaster.

The question is pricetag. Span, with his concussions, could easily be a disaster with a much higher price tag. If you want to toss a lower offer and get Bourjos you might buy low and get a steal.

If you want to pick a different term than roleplayer, go ahead. But he's not a star or centerpiece player. He can be a valuable piece, but slow your roll with him.

Totally agree about Span's issues, plus one needs to add the lapses in concentration at the plate and on the bases. You got to sell high on the guy. Still cannot believe that there are Twins' fans who value Span (and his age and his contract) more than Revere (and his age and his contract).... He has to go.

TheLeviathan
11-09-2012, 07:29 PM
Totally agree about Span's issues, plus one needs to add the lapses in concentration at the plate and on the bases. You got to sell high on the guy. Still cannot believe that there are Twins' fans who value Span (and his age and his contract) more than Revere (and his age and his contract).... He has to go.

Well Revere's end to the season was pretty alarming. I would move Willingham and Span this offseason, but I'm not pretending they are star players or going to create a bidding war.

SpiritofVodkaDave
11-09-2012, 07:43 PM
Totally agree about Span's issues, plus one needs to add the lapses in concentration at the plate and on the bases. You got to sell high on the guy. Still cannot believe that there are Twins' fans who value Span (and his age and his contract) more than Revere (and his age and his contract).... He has to go.

Span is a very good CF and leadoff man who is on a pretty team friendly contract. Revere is a slap hitting, noodle arm (albeit great range) who projects to be a PR and a 4th OF.

The difference between Span and Revere is quite Large. Span's one real "weakness" is getting picked off to much, Revere's weaknesses include: zero arm, zero power, zero ability to draw a walk (because of his zero power)

And I actually am one of the Revere supporters here, but its just reality.

SpiritofVodkaDave
11-09-2012, 07:46 PM
Span is a role player? lol He posted a 4 WAR last season, that is a little better then role player.

I never said he is going to bring back some top tier prospect package or whatever, but with his history, contract and ability he should be able to bring back a very attractive package.

Or you can always roll the dice with Carlos Gomez I suppose, let me know how that works out for the next team to sign that disaster.

The question is pricetag. Span, with his concussions, could easily be a disaster with a much higher price tag. If you want to toss a lower offer and get Bourjos you might buy low and get a steal.

If you want to pick a different term than roleplayer, go ahead. But he's not a star or centerpiece player. He can be a valuable piece, but slow your roll with him.

Span had concussion issues for half a season, sure it is a bit of a risk but not as much as you are making it out to be. Other then 2011 he has been pretty healthy. He is only owed 11 million over the next two years, that really isn't that high of a price tag at all. His team friendly option in 2014 has a buyout of only 500k if absolutely everything goes wrong.

At the end of the day the "risk" for Span is rather low.

Again, I'm not saying they are going to trade him for Dylan Bundy or James Shields straight up (though that would be nice!) but he does have plenty of value on his own and can certainly be the centerpiece of a trade that brings back a very solid pitcher.

TheLeviathan
11-09-2012, 07:47 PM
The difference between Span and Revere is quite Large. Span's one real "weakness" is getting picked off to much, Revere's weaknesses include: zero arm, zero power, zero ability to draw a walk (because of his zero power).

You mean other than Span missing 120+ games the last two years and being a poor baserunner/stealer who is only getting older?

biggentleben
11-09-2012, 09:40 PM
BGB - Who do you like better Bourn or Span? Their stats are fairly comparable - the exception being that Bourn plays a lot more, steals more bases and K's a lot more. Also, what are some realistic scenarios you would like to see play out for ATL this offseason. I like the Braves from afar and am curious to read your opinion and insight.

Bourn is very healthy and the Braves rarely run, so his steal stats should reflect the fact that rarely did he have an open green light, and he still amassed the totals he did. I love Bourn, but I understand the Braves' financial restrictions and their need to lock up their plethora of young players. For what the Braves need, defense is priority #1 from CF, so Bourn and Span there are both elite, and that's the major thing to worry. Add in the team friendly contract, and it is a true toss-up to me. Bourn's a better overall player, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit for him to see a $70-90M deal over 4-5 years. That would strongly restrict the Braves in locking up players like Heyward, Prado, and Freeman long-term.

As far as your questions on what I foresee and what I'd like to see - I'd like to see Bourn back and Tommy Hanson traded for a LF bat. Most of the rest of the team is all returning. However, I foresee a bidding war going on over Bourn, the Braves ending up trading for a CF after losing out on Bourn/BJ Upton, and then having to go to a second-tier outfielder. With Hinske's departure, Francisco slips into that role, opening the door for Frank Wren to pursue some much-needed RH power off the bench at corner infield or corner outfield. They have a tremendous amount of pitching, and they'll likely deal from this excess to fill CF/LF, their only real holes on the whole roster. David Ross reportedly told a Braves teammate recently that he intends to be a Brave next season, so that will be big with McCann out for some time with his shoulder surgery. Grandal's suspension removes a team the Braves had already contacted as a possibility, pursuing either Nick Hundley or John Buck as a 3rd catcher to play quite a bit while McCann is out. I do believe this offseason and next season will see a lot of the staff and lineup locked up for extended time. Reportedly, Heyward, Prado, and Medlen are in talks with the Braves currently about extensions.

I could type on this for ages, but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask!

beckmt
11-09-2012, 09:58 PM
Would prefer Span was traded elsewhere, but this may be the best option. I am not enamered with the Braves pitchers,but Twins may have to take chances to get arms into the system. Tampa Bay has better options, but also the reputation of getting the best of trades.

YourHouseIsMyHouse
11-09-2012, 10:02 PM
CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.

CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
You realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.

Below average at best? Plenty of those players are perfectly fine players and possibly a better gamble if you believe Span is somehow going to land you a gem. That kind of pricetag is going to quickly steer people to Gomez, Bourjos, Gutierrez, etc that have bargain written all over them as buy-low options.

We're exaggerating a bit here to believe that Span is somehow a shining beacon of value among this group. He should be in the upper half but hold your horses if you think you're going to put the screws to anyone over him. You can hope to push a bidding war, but that's only going to go so far given the problems with Span. (Concussions, lack of impactful speed, limited home run power) He's got plenty of pluses to his game, but he's not a star. He's a roleplayer, let's keep our expectations sane here.

Span is a role player? lol He posted a 4 WAR last season, that is a little better then role player.

I never said he is going to bring back some top tier prospect package or whatever, but with his history, contract and ability he should be able to bring back a very attractive package.

Or you can always roll the dice with Carlos Gomez I suppose, let me know how that works out for the next team to sign that disaster.

Actually 4.8 so even better. 5 WAR is all star caliber, so Span is borderline in that respect. He is just short of a star in terms of performance. Definitely not a role player. A role player comes off the bench to pinch hit, as a defensive sub, or pinch run in my opinion. My personal view is that Span has a lot of value and we should keep him if the deal isn't right. Even more so if the rumors surrounding Revere become a reality.

Bark's Lounge
11-09-2012, 10:09 PM
BGB - Who do you like better Bourn or Span? Their stats are fairly comparable - the exception being that Bourn plays a lot more, steals more bases and K's a lot more. Also, what are some realistic scenarios you would like to see play out for ATL this offseason. I like the Braves from afar and am curious to read your opinion and insight.

Bourn is very healthy and the Braves rarely run, so his steal stats should reflect the fact that rarely did he have an open green light, and he still amassed the totals he did. I love Bourn, but I understand the Braves' financial restrictions and their need to lock up their plethora of young players. For what the Braves need, defense is priority #1 from CF, so Bourn and Span there are both elite, and that's the major thing to worry. Add in the team friendly contract, and it is a true toss-up to me. Bourn's a better overall player, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit for him to see a $70-90M deal over 4-5 years. That would strongly restrict the Braves in locking up players like Heyward, Prado, and Freeman long-term.

As far as your questions on what I foresee and what I'd like to see - I'd like to see Bourn back and Tommy Hanson traded for a LF bat. Most of the rest of the team is all returning. However, I foresee a bidding war going on over Bourn, the Braves ending up trading for a CF after losing out on Bourn/BJ Upton, and then having to go to a second-tier outfielder. With Hinske's departure, Francisco slips into that role, opening the door for Frank Wren to pursue some much-needed RH power off the bench at corner infield or corner outfield. They have a tremendous amount of pitching, and they'll likely deal from this excess to fill CF/LF, their only real holes on the whole roster. David Ross reportedly told a Braves teammate recently that he intends to be a Brave next season, so that will be big with McCann out for some time with his shoulder surgery. Grandal's suspension removes a team the Braves had already contacted as a possibility, pursuing either Nick Hundley or John Buck as a 3rd catcher to play quite a bit while McCann is out. I do believe this offseason and next season will see a lot of the staff and lineup locked up for extended time. Reportedly, Heyward, Prado, and Medlen are in talks with the Braves currently about extensions.

I could type on this for ages, but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask!

Thanks BGB! Viva Chipper Jones!

Physics Guy
11-09-2012, 10:14 PM
Let's call him what he is: an above average starting CF with a team-friendly contract. We have no reason to dump his salary unless we get at least an average player in return that fills an area of need (SP or MI). Obviously supply and demand come into play, but there are several teams out there looking for a CF that doesn't cost per year what Span has coming the next two. His contract is for 11.25M over the next two years with a 9M optin (.5M buyout). Upton and Bourn are most likely going for over 10M per season. After that the next best is Pagan. Would you pay him big money?

TheLeviathan
11-09-2012, 10:23 PM
Would you pay him big money?

The difference is they only cost you money. Span costs less money but other assets as well.

Physics Guy
11-09-2012, 10:35 PM
Would you pay him big money?

The difference is they only cost you money. Span costs less money but other assets as well.

The "Would You pay him big money?" quote was in reference to Pagan.

Agreed, but money is the issue for the Braves, Rays and some others. They have assets to trade and want to save money. Otherwise wouldn't they sign Bourn and Upton and be done with it?

Kwak
11-09-2012, 11:13 PM
Totally agree about Span's issues, plus one needs to add the lapses in concentration at the plate and on the bases. You got to sell high on the guy. Still cannot believe that there are Twins' fans who value Span (and his age and his contract) more than Revere (and his age and his contract).... He has to go.

Span is a very good CF and leadoff man who is on a pretty team friendly contract. Revere is a slap hitting, noodle arm (albeit great range) who projects to be a PR and a 4th OF.

The difference between Span and Revere is quite Large. Span's one real "weakness" is getting picked off to much, Revere's weaknesses include: zero arm, zero power, zero ability to draw a walk (because of his zero power)

And I actually am one of the Revere supporters here, but its just reality.
Amen to all about Span. He is one of the most productive players on the team--OK a bad team, but still Span would represent an improvement over most CFs--especially on a cost-adjusted basis. Ergo, money that didn't have to be spent to get those 4 Wins can be applied to upgrade at another position to improve the WAR rating there.

biggentleben
11-10-2012, 11:41 AM
Would you pay him big money?

The difference is they only cost you money. Span costs less money but other assets as well.

The "Would You pay him big money?" quote was in reference to Pagan.

Agreed, but money is the issue for the Braves, Rays and some others. They have assets to trade and want to save money. Otherwise wouldn't they sign Bourn and Upton and be done with it?

The money isn't really the issue for the Braves. They're still trying hard to sign Bourn. However, they cannot afford a mistake contract, so going after Pagan at 4/36 would be poorly spent resources, so if they don't get Bourn, Span's salary relative to talent becomes a big factor, but they will be going hard after Bourn.

Riverbrian
11-10-2012, 12:39 PM
The Braves and Twins make sense to me.

No matter what our own personal thoughts are about Denard Span and his talent level. I think we can agree that Atlanta would love to have him. How much would they love to have him is the big question. I'd do Span plus to get a deal done for one of those young arms.

The Braves certaininly have extra Starting Pitching. Big Gentle Ben... Please do keep us posted if you hear anything.

biggentleben
11-10-2012, 02:08 PM
BGB - Who do you like better Bourn or Span? Their stats are fairly comparable - the exception being that Bourn plays a lot more, steals more bases and K's a lot more. Also, what are some realistic scenarios you would like to see play out for ATL this offseason. I like the Braves from afar and am curious to read your opinion and insight.

Bourn is very healthy and the Braves rarely run, so his steal stats should reflect the fact that rarely did he have an open green light, and he still amassed the totals he did. I love Bourn, but I understand the Braves' financial restrictions and their need to lock up their plethora of young players. For what the Braves need, defense is priority #1 from CF, so Bourn and Span there are both elite, and that's the major thing to worry. Add in the team friendly contract, and it is a true toss-up to me. Bourn's a better overall player, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit for him to see a $70-90M deal over 4-5 years. That would strongly restrict the Braves in locking up players like Heyward, Prado, and Freeman long-term.

As far as your questions on what I foresee and what I'd like to see - I'd like to see Bourn back and Tommy Hanson traded for a LF bat. Most of the rest of the team is all returning. However, I foresee a bidding war going on over Bourn, the Braves ending up trading for a CF after losing out on Bourn/BJ Upton, and then having to go to a second-tier outfielder. With Hinske's departure, Francisco slips into that role, opening the door for Frank Wren to pursue some much-needed RH power off the bench at corner infield or corner outfield. They have a tremendous amount of pitching, and they'll likely deal from this excess to fill CF/LF, their only real holes on the whole roster. David Ross reportedly told a Braves teammate recently that he intends to be a Brave next season, so that will be big with McCann out for some time with his shoulder surgery. Grandal's suspension removes a team the Braves had already contacted as a possibility, pursuing either Nick Hundley or John Buck as a 3rd catcher to play quite a bit while McCann is out. I do believe this offseason and next season will see a lot of the staff and lineup locked up for extended time. Reportedly, Heyward, Prado, and Medlen are in talks with the Braves currently about extensions.

I could type on this for ages, but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask!

Thanks BGB! Viva Chipper Jones!

Wow. Already wrong after the BoSox signed David Ross today. That puts the Braves in need of at least one catcher, if not two, depending on how they feel about Evan Gattis in a Ryan Doumit-esque role.

diehardtwinsfan
11-11-2012, 08:29 AM
The Braves and Twins make sense to me.

No matter what our own personal thoughts are about Denard Span and his talent level. I think we can agree that Atlanta would love to have him. How much would they love to have him is the big question. I'd do Span plus to get a deal done for one of those young arms.

The Braves certaininly have extra Starting Pitching. Big Gentle Ben... Please do keep us posted if you hear anything.

I'm hoping that the Reds get in a bidding war here... both teams could use Span.

TK10
11-11-2012, 08:54 AM
While it's important to note Span's WAR was 4 last season I think you have to crunch the numbers even further to really get a sense of how good and valuable he is. For example, his Advanced WAR was +19 and his Weather Channel Hitting in All Conditions (HAC) rating was 21. With the leather, his SVU defensive readiness survey came in at 38, best among left handed center fielders in the AL Central. Furthermore, his NASA Advanced Positioning Defensive Survey was an 8, and I don't have to tell any of you how staggering that is. Long story short, the Braves better be ready to cough up the good stuff.

beckmt
11-11-2012, 09:33 AM
Hope TR gets other teams involived. We need more options(like Tampa Bay or Seattle). All of these teams have excess pitching and want outfielders. Span seems to be considered to get a mid level pitcher from the Braves, Hope we can find more elsewhere(maybe with another prospect or Parmalee).