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View Full Version : Wolfson: More Twins Firings



Seth Stohs
10-25-2012, 01:29 PM
According to KSTP and 1500espn's Darren "Doogie" Wolfson, the firings at One Twins Way are not being limited to on-field personnel.


Not only did the #MNTwins (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23MNTwins&src=hash) fire VP Marketing Patrick Klinger, but told they also let go marketing maven Heidi Sammon. She ran TwinsFest.

I would think this would be surprising as the Twins have had some terrific marketing efforts for years.

Winston Smith
10-25-2012, 02:22 PM
They seem to be going after the people that have the least to do with the poor team on the field.

mike wants wins
10-25-2012, 02:27 PM
Well, this is surprising. Any changes in scouts yet?

YourHouseIsMyHouse
10-25-2012, 02:29 PM
They seem to be going after the people that have the least to do with the poor team on the field.

Best comment I've seen in a while. Agree 100%. Maybe the declining attendance and therefore worse marketing is a result of the terrible team?

LaBombo
10-25-2012, 02:29 PM
I would think this would be surprising as the Twins have had some terrific marketing efforts for years.

Agreed. That seemed to be one of the most consistent strengths of the franchise. When a steep decline in attendance exactly corresponds to a steep decline in on-field performance, marketing is the last thing I'd be worried about.

Jim Crikket
10-25-2012, 02:33 PM
These would seem to fall under the direction of someone other than Terry Ryan, so I question what they would have to do with improving performance on the field. One would hope that Dave St. Peter and the other brass are smart enough to know that when the product on the field sucks for a couple of years, it's probably not the Marketing team's fault if ticket demand falls dramatically. At the same time, it could be argued that almost anyone can run a successful marketing organization when times are good. The test of abilities comes when times get tougher. There are independent marketing firms that specialize in dealing with "tough times" and I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins "outsource" more (if not all) of their marketing function going forward.

LaBombo
10-25-2012, 02:38 PM
These would seem to fall under the direction of someone other than Terry Ryan, so I question what they would have to do with improving performance on the field. One would hope that Dave St. Peter and the other brass are smart enough to know that when the product on the field sucks for a couple of years, it's probably not the Marketing team's fault if ticket demand falls dramatically. At the same time, it could be argued that almost anyone can run a successful marketing organization when times are good. The test of abilities comes when times get tougher. There are independent marketing firms that specialize in dealing with "tough times" and I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins "outsource" more (if not all) of their marketing function going forward.

My point was that obviously a crappy product is harder to sell, and I'd expend most of my energy improving the product rather than the marketing. If the Twins need to revamp their marketing strategy with a "tough times" outside firm, that would tell me all I need to know about how they view their chances of contending next year, and quite a bit about the year after.

nicksaviking
10-25-2012, 02:58 PM
Anyone who can't parley the marketability of Jeff Gray and Esmerling Vasquez into a sellout crowd needs to be canned in my opinion.

Get to know 'em!

Jim Crikket
10-25-2012, 03:00 PM
And my point is that improving one doesn't necessarily preclude you from also improving the other. Terry Ryan's focus is on improving the product on the field. Another part of the organization is responsible for marketing. If the product on the field does improve, that will help sell tickets. While that makes marketing easier, it isn't the only factor that sells tickets.

My own take, based on the limited exposure I had to the Twins marketing efforts, is that they produced some clever TV and radio spots, but I'm not sure they alone would cause many people to consider going to games (and I thought some of them were downright amateurish). I have no idea how well the marketing folks worked with local businesses to generate additional revenues or performed any other aspect of their jobs. Apparently, someone thought it could be done better.

For the Twins to be successful financially, they need both the "product development" and "marketing" sides of the house to do their jobs well.

twinsnorth49
10-25-2012, 03:06 PM
Wow, there sure is a lot of stretching going on here. Just because they let a couple of people go in the Marketing dept. means they are expending most of their energy in that direction, as opposed to the team on the field? Can you walk and chew gum at the same time? Besides, Crikket is right, this has nothing to do with Ryan.

I don't quite get how changing marketing personnel is an indication of how a team feels about it's chances in the near future.

MWLFan
10-25-2012, 03:29 PM
First-What stat works here for a marketing Guy. WAR or VORP? Do we need to break out the Win Shares for various VP's?

Second- There are a myraid of reasons for a person let go besides performance. Speculation is for us uniformed is pointless. (But it can be fun if you are not the one being let go.)

Winston Smith
10-25-2012, 03:32 PM
Likely they just didn't mention the 2014 All Star game being played at Target Field, get seating priority by renewing your season tickets now, enough times!
They really should have an ad on this site for the 2014 All Star game played at Target Field with ticket priority if you renew or purchase season tickets.
Utter failure on their part.

PseudoSABR
10-25-2012, 03:35 PM
As Jim insinuated, I also doubt TR had anything to do with this firing and wasn't consulted for it. Any connection made between front office firings and the business side of the Twins is specious at best. That people use this as a sounding board for "The Twins don't know what they're doing! See!" routine is all too typical.

glanzer
10-25-2012, 03:36 PM
This news is a shame. I had a nice experience with Mr. Klinger a few years back when he sent me the mp3 to the Hormel Weiner Winner song to use at my wedding dance.

johnnydakota
10-25-2012, 04:02 PM
These would seem to fall under the direction of someone other than Terry Ryan, so I question what they would have to do with improving performance on the field. One would hope that Dave St. Peter and the other brass are smart enough to know that when the product on the field sucks for a couple of years, it's probably not the Marketing team's fault if ticket demand falls dramatically. At the same time, it could be argued that almost anyone can run a successful marketing organization when times are good. The test of abilities comes when times get tougher. There are independent marketing firms that specialize in dealing with "tough times" and I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins "outsource" more (if not all) of their marketing function going forward.

wouldnt that apply for a pitching coach and manager as well?

mike wants wins
10-25-2012, 04:05 PM
frankly, I have not been a fan of the commercials, so I hope they fire their ad agency also....

Jim Crikket
10-25-2012, 04:21 PM
These would seem to fall under the direction of someone other than Terry Ryan, so I question what they would have to do with improving performance on the field. One would hope that Dave St. Peter and the other brass are smart enough to know that when the product on the field sucks for a couple of years, it's probably not the Marketing team's fault if ticket demand falls dramatically. At the same time, it could be argued that almost anyone can run a successful marketing organization when times are good. The test of abilities comes when times get tougher. There are independent marketing firms that specialize in dealing with "tough times" and I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins "outsource" more (if not all) of their marketing function going forward.

wouldnt that apply for a pitching coach and manager as well?

Well, I've never heard of any third party that provides managers and pitching coaches to teams wishing to outsource those responsibilities, but it might be an interesting business to get in to... you hire all of the guys who just seem to get recycled from one team to another and sell their services out to teams that can just send them back to you in exchange for someone else when they aren't working out. Interesting idea.

But on the off chance that you're actually asking if the "test of abilities comes when times get tougher" also applies to managers and pitching coaches, the answer is "absolutely." But again, evaluating performance of managers/pitching coaches and Marketing staff have nothing whatsoever to do with one another and it's highly unlikely that the same person(s) is/are even doing the evaluating.

spideyo
10-25-2012, 04:47 PM
Well dammit! I just had a long talk with Heidi a few weeks ago and it looked like she was interested in hiring me to join her department.

70charger
10-25-2012, 04:49 PM
This news is a shame. I had a nice experience with Mr. Klinger a few years back when he sent me the mp3 to the Hormel Weiner Winner song to use at my wedding dance.

Ha! ....Wait, what?

Oh, the innuendo.

Seth Stohs
10-25-2012, 04:56 PM
These would seem to fall under the direction of someone other than Terry Ryan, so I question what they would have to do with improving performance on the field. One would hope that Dave St. Peter and the other brass are smart enough to know that when the product on the field sucks for a couple of years, it's probably not the Marketing team's fault if ticket demand falls dramatically. At the same time, it could be argued that almost anyone can run a successful marketing organization when times are good. The test of abilities comes when times get tougher. There are independent marketing firms that specialize in dealing with "tough times" and I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins "outsource" more (if not all) of their marketing function going forward.

You are correct... this would be out of the realm for Ryan's doing.

Parker Hageman
10-25-2012, 05:21 PM
This news is a shame. I had a nice experience with Mr. Klinger a few years back when he sent me the mp3 to the Hormel Weiner Winner song to use at my wedding dance.

As someone who is getting married next year, I demand you send me this .mp3.

mike wants wins
10-25-2012, 05:41 PM
Congrats Parker. Marriage is awesome.

twinsnorth49
10-25-2012, 06:29 PM
Congrats Parker. Marriage is awesome.


See, now that's the problem with internet chat, I can't possibly tell if you're joking and I'm frightened you're not.

Twins Twerp
10-25-2012, 06:56 PM
Are we talking about a sex scandal in the Marketing Department of the Minnesota Twins?

twinsnorth49
10-25-2012, 07:05 PM
Well, Spideyo did say that Ms. Sammon was interested in him, perhaps you're on to something here.

JB_Iowa
10-25-2012, 09:01 PM
Well, this wasn't what I expected to read (or hoped to read) when I opened this thread.

Just hoping that they demote Dave St. Peter back to marketing and get a new President.

Rosterman
10-25-2012, 10:01 PM
What was wrong with the Twins commercials?

LaBombo
10-25-2012, 10:49 PM
And my point is that improving one doesn't necessarily preclude you from also improving the other. Terry Ryan's focus is on improving the product on the field. Another part of the organization is responsible for marketing. If the product on the field does improve, that will help sell tickets. While that makes marketing easier, it isn't the only factor that sells tickets.

My own take, based on the limited exposure I had to the Twins marketing efforts, is that they produced some clever TV and radio spots, but I'm not sure they alone would cause many people to consider going to games (and I thought some of them were downright amateurish). I have no idea how well the marketing folks worked with local businesses to generate additional revenues or performed any other aspect of their jobs. Apparently, someone thought it could be done better.

For the Twins to be successful financially, they need both the "product development" and "marketing" sides of the house to do their jobs well.

Guess I missed the part where I mentioned Terry Ryan. Maybe you can show me. And your belief that the realization by St. Peter that the marketing was substandard just happened to coincide with a steep plunge in attendance and train wreck performance on the field is suspect at best.

gilesferrell
10-26-2012, 12:51 AM
Wow. I would never have thought the marketing folks got the ax too. I thought their commercials were still top notch this past season.

PseudoSABR
10-26-2012, 01:43 AM
Wait. We're endorsing marriage now? Wtf guys.

Brock Beauchamp
10-26-2012, 07:57 AM
Guess I missed the part where I mentioned Terry Ryan. Maybe you can show me. And your belief that the realization by St. Peter that the marketing was substandard just happened to coincide with a steep plunge in attendance and train wreck performance on the field is suspect at best.

We have absolutely no idea why they were fired. Speculating that it was based on declining attendance is suspect at best. It could have been for any reason.

benchwarmerjim
10-26-2012, 08:19 AM
I was not a big fan of the 'Deep Twins Thought' commercials last year. I cant remember if they ran any other ad campaign (The Bert/puppets singing ad was for the Minnesota State Lottery). As for why these people were let go, it probably boils down to the higher ups wanted to go in a different direction.

mike wants wins
10-26-2012, 08:53 AM
No sarcasm, shockingly I know, from me on marriage, it is a wonderful thing to spend your life with your best friend.....

Jim Crikket
10-26-2012, 09:59 AM
Guess I missed the part where I mentioned Terry Ryan. Maybe you can show me. And your belief that the realization by St. Peter that the marketing was substandard just happened to coincide with a steep plunge in attendance and train wreck performance on the field is suspect at best.

Guess it was this:




My point was that obviously a crappy product is harder to sell, and I'd expend most of my energy improving the product rather than the marketing. If the Twins need to revamp their marketing strategy with a "tough times" outside firm, that would tell me all I need to know about how they view their chances of contending next year, and quite a bit about the year after.

If referring to focusing energy on improving the product on the field isn't referring to Terry Ryan, I guess I don't know who it is referring to. And I'm not saying anything about these decisions were coincidental. They had causes, but as Pig indicated, we don't know what they were. I obviously do feel that addressing whatever those causes were should have absolutely no effect on the "energy" put forth to improve the product on the field.

JB_Iowa
10-26-2012, 11:57 AM
I was not a big fan of the 'Deep Twins Thought' commercials last year. I cant remember if they ran any other ad campaign (The Bert/puppets singing ad was for the Minnesota State Lottery). As for why these people were let go, it probably boils down to the higher ups wanted to go in a different direction.

I agree - the deep thought commercials were really bad. My all time favorite commercial was the Pitchers Ode to Joy.

I have to think about who was pitching for the club (including Bonser, Rincon, Liriano, Nathan, Neshek et. al.) but the words stick with me.

3-2 count, we love the slider

Boom Boom
10-26-2012, 12:07 PM
It's about time... these maniacs sawed Johan Santana in half, and he never recovered.

Mauerzy4Prez
10-26-2012, 01:48 PM
These would seem to fall under the direction of someone other than Terry Ryan, so I question what they would have to do with improving performance on the field. One would hope that Dave St. Peter and the other brass are smart enough to know that when the product on the field sucks for a couple of years, it's probably not the Marketing team's fault if ticket demand falls dramatically. At the same time, it could be argued that almost anyone can run a successful marketing organization when times are good. The test of abilities comes when times get tougher. There are independent marketing firms that specialize in dealing with "tough times" and I wouldn't be surprised if the Twins "outsource" more (if not all) of their marketing function going forward.

When you say almost anyone can run a successful marketing organization, do you refer to anyone as any marketing professional? Or just any Joe Scmoe coming in off the street? I know marketing isn't always seen as one of the most difficult degrees to attain when comparing it to engineering/science/etc... but that does not mean that there are no special skills needed to be a good marketer. It in fact does take a lot of hard work and someone who has a very strong business acumen to be successful in that field.

I think people should take a look at what other local big businesses have done in the last few years when times are tight and revenue is down. If there is no foreseeable growth in revenue in the near future, and the company cannot raise expenses to grow their sales, they must cut internal costs and try to maintain the same level of profit that they currently have. I.e. Best Buy... when things got very bad in the economy about 3 years ago, BB was clearing out entire departments and firing people left and right. The first major department to get completely wiped... MARKETING.

The Twins might be doing the same thing here. They don't see any major growth in revenue in next 3-5 years, and the only way the team can afford to bring on new and better plays is to create more money by cutting expenses internally. It is really not fair to the people in that department because they did everything in their power to keep people in the seats. The scouting department, front office, and all-mighty Pohlad boys are the ones that put a horrific team on the field after they pulled a fast one on the general public and convinced them to buy a new stadium for the team. As a long standing season ticket holder and die hard fan of the Twins... this is extremely disappointing. The honeymoon is over guys, it's only a matter of time before the public all stops caring and isn't willing to pay the prices you expect to get.