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View Full Version : Article: Could the Twins Sign Zack Greinke?



Nick Nelson
10-19-2012, 12:35 PM
You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?1109-Could-the-Twins-Sign-Zack-Greinke

mike wants wins
10-19-2012, 12:56 PM
In an effort not to be negative....I will just say it would be great if they signed him.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
10-19-2012, 01:09 PM
oh man i sure wish this would come true. All I want for christmas is some starting pitching!

John Bonnes
10-19-2012, 02:04 PM
Actually, I think there is a decent chance - in 2019. He, like Thome, seems like a guy destined to eventually play for the Twins, just not at the peak of his career.

Eric R Pleiss
10-19-2012, 02:15 PM
At some point, they need to stop operating like a small-market team.
Maybe not small-market, but they're still a mid-market team. Trading from a position of strength (like young, talented, outfielders) for pitching makes a lot more sense than overpaying a free-agent pitcher like Greinke.

minn55441
10-19-2012, 02:57 PM
Actually, I think there is a decent chance - in 2019. He, like Thome, seems like a guy destined to eventually play for the Twins, just not at the peak of his career.

I was really high on Greinke when he played for the Royals, but I just don't see him as that dominant guy anymore. Maybe my expectations are just too high for a #1 starter, but with all of the issues he has had over the last three seasons I'm not sure he is worth the gamble. If we have the option of picking up one $100 million starter, would this be our choice? Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to criticize the trade if we do get him, I just don't think that is the direction I would go. For the same money, I think there is the option of spreading the money over two starting pitchers each with an equal chance of long term success.

When he moved to the national league, I thought he would dominate. Although he had stretches of some quality innings, I don't think he has the mental makeup to ultimately lead our pitching staff and that is what I would want from our number one.

TheAntiGardy
10-19-2012, 03:13 PM
"At some point, they need to stop operating like a small-market team."

I feel if they planned on moving away from the small market moniker, they wouldn't have brought back Terry Ryan. Unprecedented is the best word of this article. On an optimistic note.....Greinke would be awesome!

johnnydakota
10-19-2012, 03:22 PM
"At some point, they need to stop operating like a small-market team."

I feel if they planned on moving away from the small market moniker, they wouldn't have brought back Terry Ryan. Unprecedented is the best word of this article. On an optimistic note.....Greinke would be awesome!
amen

johnnydakota
10-19-2012, 03:24 PM
rather then try and spend 120 million on grinke why wouldnt we look at shohei otani?
an 18 year old out of japan (no posting fee needed) he is 64 and throws 99-100 mph
he would pair nicely with berrois for the future?

dwintheiser
10-19-2012, 03:28 PM
As a team that needs pitching more desperately than perhaps any other

I believe Red Sox fans would beg to differ with this statement.

TheAntiGardy
10-19-2012, 03:34 PM
Not a bad idea....a true power arm it seems.
But what do you do about being snakebit by Japanese talent after Nishi? No posting fee is a plus, of course.

That you JohnnyG? Seems we are all making the transition....;)

johnnydakota
10-19-2012, 03:42 PM
well for 1 the ass, gm athony something or another got drunk with nishis agent , the twins did there due diligents by watching tapes of nishi then put in a bid(i believe the only 1) on him ...so i would suggest sending someone over there to watch him pitch..
see what hes got and not sit in your hotel room drinking and watching videos

as for my transition ive been getting banned here for a few months hahaha
go twins ,
but more importantly go away ryan and gardy

ScottyB
10-19-2012, 04:29 PM
well for 1 the ass, gm athony something or another got drunk with nishis agent , the twins did there due diligents by watching tapes of nishi then put in a bid(i believe the only 1) on him ...so i would suggest sending someone over there to watch him pitch..
see what hes got and not sit in your hotel room drinking and watching videos

as for my transition ive been getting banned here for a few months hahaha
go twins ,
but more importantly go away ryan and gardy

Can anyone understand this post????

Rosterman
10-19-2012, 04:51 PM
The Twins can sign anyone they want by throwing money at them, but even outrageous sums of money do NO GOOD if they player doesn't want to play with a twice last-place team. The second part of any signing equation is that they will be second fiddle to Mauer in this town. The third part is that the Twins are an attraction to guys on the fringe, minor league free agent, players coming off a bad year, et al who see the Twins as an opportunity for playing time. Hell, even Jeff Gray got a potential upside to play somewhere in the bigs in 2013 because of what he showed as a Twin. The Twins either have ti badly overplay a player top get them here, ot still overpay a modest bit but give someone like Torii Hunter a 3-yhear contract. Considering tghey didn't want to give Cuddy a four..........

dwintheiser
10-19-2012, 04:55 PM
I would eagerly read a companion post to this entitled "Could the Twins trade for Alex Rodriguez?"

USAFChief
10-19-2012, 08:30 PM
Could the Twins sign Grienke? Of course they could, provided he's interested.

Should the Twins sign Grienke? A better question, IMO, and not any easy one to answer. I'd say yes, but it's about a 55-45 call, as arguments against it certainly have some merit.

Will the Twins sign Grienke? I'd say the chances are the proverbial one in a million.

one_eyed_jack
10-19-2012, 10:38 PM
Part of me would love to see the Twins shock everyone and sign Greinke. Not only would it add the top-notch starter they've been desperately lacking, but it would send the message that they are actually serious about winning. It won't happen. The other part of me is fine with not handing a massive contract to a guy with that many question marks just because he happens to be the best of a week free agent class.

But it will be interesting to see where he ends up. He turned down 5 years/$100 mil to stay in Milwaukee, so that bridge is probably burned. I'm guessing the Angels want him back and the Rangers and White Sox will probably make him offers, both tried getting him at the deadline.

DBTwinsFan
10-20-2012, 08:04 AM
well for 1 the ass, gm athony something or another got drunk with nishis agent , the twins did there due diligents by watching tapes of nishi then put in a bid(i believe the only 1) on him ...so i would suggest sending someone over there to watch him pitch..
see what hes got and not sit in your hotel room drinking and watching videos

as for my transition ive been getting banned here for a few months hahaha
go twins ,
but more importantly go away ryan and gardy

Can anyone understand this post????

It's been translated from the original Mexican version.......

twinsfaninsaudi
10-20-2012, 08:36 AM
I need to say to you Twins Daily - I was just registering here and my first attempt was rejected because I answered the question wrong. The question was "What was the name of the Twins before they moved to Minnesota?" - I gave the answer "Senators and Nationals" - a much more correct and accurate answer than just "Senators" - did I give you guys too much credit (I hope not)? Or does this question need to be adjusted so that those who give the BEST answer are not punished?

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/minn.shtml

by jiminy
10-20-2012, 11:58 AM
well for 1 the ass, gm athony something or another got drunk with nishis agent , the twins did there due diligents by watching tapes of nishi then put in a bid(i believe the only 1) on him ...so i would suggest sending someone over there to watch him pitch..
see what hes got and not sit in your hotel room drinking and watching videos

as for my transition ive been getting banned here for a few months hahaha
go twins ,
but more importantly go away ryan and gardy

Can anyone understand this post????

Yeah I think he's just saying proceed with caution with Japanese players and scout them better than we did Nishioka.

I like the idea of gambling on a young flamethrower more than an aging star -- the upside is just as high, without the guaranteed downside of a hundred million dollar contract

Fire Dan Gladden
10-20-2012, 12:06 PM
I think of all the high-end pitchers to come on the market in the last few years, Grienke would be the one would seem to be the most probable to come here. With his history, his reticence to play in a big market, and with what the Twins need, it seems like a fit.

That being said, I believe the chances of the Twins actually signing him to a large long-term deal are virtually non-nonexistent. Keeping in mind Willingham is the largest FA contract the Twins have given, quadrupling it for a pitcher with past issues seems unbelievable.

DAM DC Twins Fans
10-20-2012, 01:04 PM
I think of all the high-end pitchers to come on the market in the last few years, Grienke would be the one would seem to be the most probable to come here. With his history, his reticence to play in a big market, and with what the Twins need, it seems like a fit.

I would agree with that--BUT--should the Twins sign him?? Not at 5yrs/100million. He is about 30 years old--he has number 1 potential but has been up and down. A 5 year contract for Greinke will make the ChiSox deal with Peavy (who was Grienke a few years back) look good.

glunn
10-20-2012, 11:29 PM
I recall reading somewhere that Greinke wants to play for a contender. But even if this is not true, I can't imagine the Twins bidding the kind of dollars and years that other teams will offer.

twinsanity
10-20-2012, 11:36 PM
Is it me or is there something about Greinke in this article's photo that reminds you of Michael Shannon's Agent Van Alden from Boardwalk Empire?

Jack Torse
10-21-2012, 05:17 PM
It was worth a chuckle

Thrylos
10-21-2012, 06:18 PM
Greinke should not and (thankfully) will be not singed by the Twins

spideyo
10-21-2012, 07:26 PM
I maintain the belief I have preached many times, that Grienke will not just go to whoever offers the most money. I suspect he also isn't quite as concerned with playing for a contender as he is playing for a team where he feels comfortable with the attitudes and his teammates.

From a money standpoint, it's hard to say wether it would be worth it, because we don't actually know yet what he'll be gunning for in terms of salary.

From a PR standpoint, it would be brilliant. It would be an unprecendented move for the Twins, and it would show that TR means business, and that they are committed to winning NOW and not 3-5 years from now. They are making an effort to maintain and build their season ticket base in advance of the all star game, and signing a #1 guy is going to do a whole lot more than trading for another 10+ year vetran in the twilight of his career.

And who knows, maybe he will rebound to cy young form coming back to the AL for a whole season and not having to bat.

All I know is, I'd rather see him at target field pitching for the Twins than against them

Brock Beauchamp
10-22-2012, 09:56 AM
I'd love to have Greinke on the Twins but I think too many teams are going to bid on his name instead of his recent performance. He's a very good pitcher. He's not a great pitcher and has had his fair share of issues over the years.

If you can get the guy for $14-15m a year for four years, you jump all over that. If you need to shell out $17-18m a year for five plus years, pass.

And the $17-18m for five plus years is where I think he will fall.

SpiritofVodkaDave
10-22-2012, 10:08 AM
Pass on Grienke, too much baggage and I wouldn't trust him in the playoffs, plus he would cost a fortune to sign.

StormJH1
10-22-2012, 11:05 AM
Wow, between Mauer's "aww schucks, give a 110%" Midwestern demeanor and Greinke's mental health issues, we would we would have about $300 million of money tied up in two guys with virtually no chance of serving any type of leadership purpose on this team.

Or, if "leadership" is too amorphous a topic to debate on for you, let's just stick with the fact that it ain't going to happen. No way. If you think we're handcuffed my Mauer's deal NOW, at least Mauer played last year, won a batting title, and sells a boatload of tickets. Greinke could blow his arm out April 26th, and you'd be left holding the bag. If you're the Yankees, Red Sox, or Tigers, that'd be bad. If you're the Twins, you're looking at half-decade of guaranteed Triple-A baseball.

This team is cutting payroll, and Terry Ryan simply doesn't believe in that type of reform. Teams are already making trades, and unless Terry has one of those lined up, we'll probably be sitting well after the Winter Meetings like we always do, waiting for the price to go down on the mid-tier guys we can actually afford.

The ONLY good thing I can say about 2012 that might prove my assessment wrong is that it was a complete failure devoid of legitimate excuses. You had a healthy Mauer and Morneau, and Willingham was everything you could have hoped for and more. Yeah, there were a few injuries to the starting staff, but welcome to baseball. When your formula "works" and you still don't even sniff 70 wins, it might be time to reevaluate.

Boom Boom
10-22-2012, 11:18 AM
Way too much gets made of Grienke's anxiety disorder.

I guarantee you that there are dozens of MLB players who also have anxiety disorders, but we've just never heard of it because they never sought help.

twinsnorth49
10-22-2012, 01:49 PM
Wow, between Mauer's "aww schucks, give a 110%" Midwestern demeanor and Greinke's mental health issues, we would we would have about $300 million of money tied up in two guys with virtually no chance of serving any type of leadership purpose on this team.

I'll take lead by example for $1000 Alex

Mauer- .319/.416/.861, all just off his career average, a year after missing 80 games.

Grienke- 8K/9, 3.51 K/BB ratio, career.

I'll take that over some guy throwing cliches at me about how we have to "win one for the Gipper" and doing jumping jacks.

Kwak
10-22-2012, 05:17 PM
Wow, between Mauer's "aww schucks, give a 110%" Midwestern demeanor and Greinke's mental health issues, we would we would have about $300 million of money tied up in two guys with virtually no chance of serving any type of leadership purpose on this team.

I'll take lead by example for $1000 Alex

Mauer- .319/.416/.861, all just off his career average, a year after missing 80 games.

Grienke- 8K/9, 3.51 K/BB ratio, career.

I'll take that over some guy throwing cliches at me about how we have to "win one for the Gipper" and doing jumping jacks.
Am I to infer that if Mauer were to say "We gotta win for Gardy", would not suffice to motivate all and turn things around?

notoriousgod71
10-22-2012, 06:20 PM
Wow, between Mauer's "aww schucks, give a 110%" Midwestern demeanor and Greinke's mental health issues, we would we would have about $300 million of money tied up in two guys with virtually no chance of serving any type of leadership purpose on this team.

I'll take lead by example for $1000 Alex

Mauer- .319/.416/.861, all just off his career average, a year after missing 80 games.

Grienke- 8K/9, 3.51 K/BB ratio, career.

I'll take that over some guy throwing cliches at me about how we have to "win one for the Gipper" and doing jumping jacks.
Am I to infer that if Mauer were to say "We gotta win for Gardy", would not suffice to motivate all and turn things around?


I much prefer Ugueth Urbina's "Win one or I'll ****ing kill you."

Fire Dan Gladden
10-22-2012, 06:33 PM
I much prefer Ugueth Urbina's "Win one or I'll ****ing kill you.

And we have a winner for best motivational quote of the year!

twinsnorth49
10-22-2012, 08:46 PM
Wow, between Mauer's "aww schucks, give a 110%" Midwestern demeanor and Greinke's mental health issues, we would we would have about $300 million of money tied up in two guys with virtually no chance of serving any type of leadership purpose on this team.

I'll take lead by example for $1000 Alex

Mauer- .319/.416/.861, all just off his career average, a year after missing 80 games.

Grienke- 8K/9, 3.51 K/BB ratio, career.

I'll take that over some guy throwing cliches at me about how we have to "win one for the Gipper" and doing jumping jacks.
Am I to infer that if Mauer were to say "We gotta win for Gardy", would not suffice to motivate all and turn things around?

I believe that inference wold be accurate, yes.

twinsnorth49
10-22-2012, 08:48 PM
Wow, between Mauer's "aww schucks, give a 110%" Midwestern demeanor and Greinke's mental health issues, we would we would have about $300 million of money tied up in two guys with virtually no chance of serving any type of leadership purpose on this team.

I'll take lead by example for $1000 Alex

Mauer- .319/.416/.861, all just off his career average, a year after missing 80 games.

Grienke- 8K/9, 3.51 K/BB ratio, career.

I'll take that over some guy throwing cliches at me about how we have to "win one for the Gipper" and doing jumping jacks.
Am I to infer that if Mauer were to say "We gotta win for Gardy", would not suffice to motivate all and turn things around?


I much prefer Ugueth Urbina's "Win one or I'll ****ing kill you."

That is a classic, you're right much better. I'm not sure it would have the same level of crazy, scary coming from Mauer.

BBWriterMan
10-25-2012, 10:52 PM
Sign Greinke and deal Span for another mid-level starter? That sounds like a good plan to me :)

ericchri
10-26-2012, 08:42 AM
Take out his 2009 Cy Young season and he doesn't look all that special. He's a very good pitcher, significantly better than anything the Twins have, but not worthy of 5+ years and $90+ million dollars. Being the best FA pitcher on the market any given year does wonders for the inflation of salary for said player (see Wilson, C.J., or Lackey, John). That one season just looks crazy amongst all his other seasons, it's so much better than any of his others. And for someone who's now pitched in the majors for 9 years (though he missed most of a season back in '06), it's hard to believe he's ever getting anywhere near that '09 season again. Figure on seasons of around 100-120 ERA+ (i.e. occasionally average, occasionally very good) from him from here on out. A drastic improvement if you're the Twins, but they can't afford what he's probably going to get for what he's probably going to contribute.

kab21
10-26-2012, 09:56 AM
Take out his 2009 Cy Young season and he doesn't look all that special. He's a very good pitcher, significantly better than anything the Twins have, but not worthy of 5+ years and $90+ million dollars. Being the best FA pitcher on the market any given year does wonders for the inflation of salary for said player (see Wilson, C.J., or Lackey, John). That one season just looks crazy amongst all his other seasons, it's so much better than any of his others. And for someone who's now pitched in the majors for 9 years (though he missed most of a season back in '06), it's hard to believe he's ever getting anywhere near that '09 season again. Figure on seasons of around 100-120 ERA+ (i.e. occasionally average, occasionally very good) from him from here on out. A drastic improvement if you're the Twins, but they can't afford what he's probably going to get for what he's probably going to contribute.

He's that guy that pitches like an ace but just hasn't been able to have that ace type season (except in '09). You've also kind of summed up the problems with signing FA starters. ALL OF THEM get overpaid. I like signing Greinke for 5/90 a lot more than a lesser and older starter for 4/50. Greinke's a workhorse that you can count on for 200+ innings of 3.50 or better pitcher. And I still think he pitches like that ace that the stats say he is.

Reasons that you sign Greinke (stats since he secured a full time rotation spot)
K rate
8.14
9.50
7.50
10.54
8.48

BB rate
2-2.50 every season

Innings
202
229
220
171 - offseason basketball injury
212