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Thrylos
10-05-2012, 05:35 PM
It is still developing but it seems that 2 of the 5 coaching openings the Twins are having (BP, 1B, 3B, Hitting, Bench) will be filed by Scottie and Vavry. So only 3 new coaches, so just chairs were rearranged on the Titanic and 2 of the 3 who were fired (Stelly and Jerry) were the least responsible for this mess and the third (Liddly) was on his way to retirement.

Smoke and mirrors. Smoke and mirrors

Way to go Mr non-interim. Talking about accountability...

Meanwhile, Mr non-interim called Paul Molitor "non-compatible" and admitted that he will not be in the running for a coach position, even though the Hall of Famer said he was interested.

PseudoSABR
10-05-2012, 05:39 PM
Are you suggesting Varva becomes Bench Coach and Ulger becomes 1b Coach or something? Because why would the team publicly announce they had been reassigned to infield and outfield instruction?

JB_Iowa
10-05-2012, 05:44 PM
Look, just because Vavra and Ullger aren't coaches anymore doesn't mean that they won't have a huge impact on this system in their new positions (in fact, they may actually have more of an impact). And I bet that they didn't take much -- if any -- of a pay cut.

Similar to the Bill Smith 'termination' last year, this is wholly intended to get the fan base to buy season tickets.

It has very little to do with genuine change in this organization.

Thrylos
10-05-2012, 05:45 PM
Are you suggesting Varva becomes Bench Coach and Ulger becomes 1b Coach or something? Because why would the team publicly announce they had been reassigned to infield and outfield instruction?

Still happening but look at this (https://twitter.com/RhettBollinger/status/254347829546455041) Not something I made up... Ryan's words

JB_Iowa
10-05-2012, 05:56 PM
I hadn't read the news conference notes until now. So Ullger and Vavra are still at the major league level.

This is so pitiful. I hope the White Sox take a long look at a position for Stelly. And that White and Liddle find positions they'd like as well.

Look up the word scapegoat: their pictures should be there soon.

What a joke this franchise has become.

SpiritofVodkaDave
10-05-2012, 05:56 PM
Derp

JB_Iowa
10-05-2012, 05:58 PM
One interesting thing about this. Can someone clarify for me. Does this mean that the Twins are increasing their ML staff? Wasn't infield/outfield instruction previously handled by coaches?

PseudoSABR
10-05-2012, 05:59 PM
Ryan's words
It looks like it's Bollinger's words. He's not quoting Ryan. Whether they are only three hires today, doesn't necessarily mean Ulger and Varva are still on the ML staff (which would be weird given what information we actually have). But we'll see, if this turns out to be true, poor publicity from the Twins. Given that Varva himself thought he was fired, "Whatever happens, I've given it everything I've got," Vavra said, "and I'm proud of that." (PP quote).

SpiritofVodkaDave
10-05-2012, 05:59 PM
Also, I like Molitor, but why is he assumed to be the savior of this franchise? The dude had his shot to be the manager once but pulled out at the last minute because of the contraction talk/what not.

If the managerial job is open, yeah interview him, but I understand them not wanting him as the bench coach (as people would instantly be calling for him to replace Gardy)

Thrylos
10-05-2012, 06:12 PM
One interesting thing about this. Can someone clarify for me. Does this mean that the Twins are increasing their ML staff? Wasn't infield/outfield instruction previously handled by coaches?

No and Yes.

IF/OF instruction was informal. Jerry White was the OF coach.

So here are your "new" Twins' coaches:

Gardy: manager
Andy: Pitching
Scottie: Outfield/3B(or 1B)
Vavry: Infield/1B (or 3B)

and 3 openings:

Glynn: Bench
Bruno: Hitting
Cuellar: Bullpen

one_eyed_jack
10-05-2012, 06:18 PM
Also, I like Molitor, but why is he assumed to be the savior of this franchise?

---Good question. Every time the subject of staff changes comes up, there's a chorus of demands for Molitor, Gladden, Hrbek, Brunansky, Carew, etc. But there's more to coaching and managing than telling war stories from your glory days. I need to see something more than "he played good for the Twins 2 or 3 decades ago" on a guy's resume to convince me he should be brought on board.

Alex
10-05-2012, 06:22 PM
I just don't think these things are worth caring about. Whether they fire 3 or 5 or everyone, it's not what really matters. I don't think there are any coaching staffs that could have won 90 games with this team, so to me, holding them accountable seems false in and of itself.

Now, if there's something going on in the clubhouse where players are bored listening to the same guys, then the moves are justified, but I'd think it'd be worthwhile to stop believing that personnel moves (or non-moves) are going to make a huge impact on the team in the win column.

Ultimately, the accountability should be on the front office and organization in their evaluation of players and refusal to spend money to improve the team through FA.

Thrylos
10-05-2012, 06:33 PM
Ultimately, the accountability should be on the front office and organization in their evaluation of players and refusal to spend money to improve the team through FA.

In other words, Ryan should have taken off the word "interim" and added the word "former" on his title. I can live with that...

jokin
10-05-2012, 06:33 PM
It is still developing but it seems that 2 of the 5 coaching openings the Twins are having (BP, 1B, 3B, Hitting, Bench) will be filed by Scottie and Vavry. So only 3 new coaches, so just chairs were rearranged on the Titanic and 2 of the 3 who were fired (Stelly and Jerry) were the least responsible for this mess and the third (Liddly) was on his way to retirement.

Smoke and mirrors. Smoke and mirrors

Way to go Mr non-interim. Talking about accountability...

Meanwhile, Mr non-interim called Paul Molitor "non-compatible" and admitted that he will not be in the running for a coach position, even though the Hall of Famer said he was interested.

Thrylos, I thought you were pretty adamant that Molitor was "in" yesterday. I didn't see it based on his last tenure with the club. What happened? My thinking was that Gardy put his foot down for his main guys and squeezed one more year out of the Twins for him and his drinking buddies, the "reassignments" and firings were merely for public PR consumption that the Twins were "doing something." This talk that Gardy is on a short leash and could be out by May in 2013 is hogwash. When was the last time the Twins fired a manager? 26 years. When is the last time they fired a manager in the middle of the season? .......?

jokin
10-05-2012, 06:40 PM
Also, I like Molitor, but why is he assumed to be the savior of this franchise?

---Good question. Every time the subject of staff changes comes up, there's a chorus of demands for Molitor, Gladden, Hrbek, Brunansky, Carew, etc. But there's more to coaching and managing than telling war stories from your glory days. I need to see something more than "he played good for the Twins 2 or 3 decades ago" on a guy's resume to convince me he should be brought on board.

I'll join the chorus, Gladden isn't a great radio announcer, but pretty good at calling a spade a spade and was a leader on the field during his playing days and seems to be player's mentor who can light a fire of encouragment. Bruno has had some of the guys he's worked with speak up for him. Omar Vizquel has already been credited for mentoring the younger guys during his playing days. Ivan Rodriguez is begging for a coaching job and was an absolute competitor. All of these guys would be a fresh of breath air if they joined the coaching staff, after games when Gardy might claim that the players "battled their tails off" I might even tend to believe him.

Thrylos
10-05-2012, 06:44 PM
It is still developing but it seems that 2 of the 5 coaching openings the Twins are having (BP, 1B, 3B, Hitting, Bench) will be filed by Scottie and Vavry. So only 3 new coaches, so just chairs were rearranged on the Titanic and 2 of the 3 who were fired (Stelly and Jerry) were the least responsible for this mess and the third (Liddly) was on his way to retirement.

Smoke and mirrors. Smoke and mirrors

Way to go Mr non-interim. Talking about accountability...

Meanwhile, Mr non-interim called Paul Molitor "non-compatible" and admitted that he will not be in the running for a coach position, even though the Hall of Famer said he was interested.

Thrylos, I thought you were pretty adamant that Molitor was "in" yesterday. I didn't see it based on his last tenure with the club. What happened? My thinking was that Gardy put his foot down for his main guys and squeezed one more year out of the Twins for him and his drinking buddies, the "reassignments" and firings were merely for public PR consumption that the Twins were "doing something." This talk that Gardy is on a short leash and could be out by May in 2013 is hogwash. When was the last time the Twins fired a manager? 26 years. When is the last time they fired a manager in the middle of the season? .......?

Well... That was yesterday, this is today. Ryan publicly said that Molitor was not "a fit". I suspect that Gardy felt threatened or something. And yesterday 2 out the 4 stooges were out and were listed in the web site as "minor league instructors". Today is another day. I just hope that the fans are really outraged by this whole thing and that the owners really do what they need to do starting with Ryan. And speaking of Ryan, I just cannot imagine how he can look himself in the mirror after firing only Stelly and Jerry and letting the others be. This fact tells me a lot about what Mr Ryan is all about and I hope that all Twins' fans "get it" now...

PseudoSABR
10-05-2012, 06:45 PM
You can watch the Press Conference on star tribune. TR clearly says Varva and Ulger were reassigned. However, he goes on to say that they are in a the market for a Bullpen Coach, a Hitting Coach, and a Bench Coach.

So are we to understand that Varva and Ulger will also man 1B and 3B coaching positions? And does that mean Glynn to BC, Bruno to HC and Cueller to BPC? I guess it makes sense, but the Twins mishandled the information poorly yesterday...

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
10-05-2012, 06:48 PM
There is so many conflicting reports about whats happening with this situation!

greengoblinrulz
10-05-2012, 06:50 PM
Gardy is incredibly intimidated by players who were better players than he was. It undermines him. Dont believe me.....who have the Twins had as a coach that had any type of a relevant MLB career??
This is a major reason why Molitor & Gardy didnt mesh well the first time thru.
Molly will be the backup plan for manager if Gardy is cut loose next season & gardy wouldnt want him on the staff as the trust factor wouldnt be there between the two.

Thrylos
10-05-2012, 06:51 PM
So are we to understand that Varva and Ulger will also man 1B and 3B coaching positions? And does that mean Glynn to BC, Bruno to HC and Cueller to BPC? I guess it makes sense, but the Twins mishandled the information poorly yesterday...


Yes, That is what it means. More information here (http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/2012/10/presenting-new-and-improved-minnesota.html).

What the Twins' did yesterday, was not "mishandling" it was "misleading". And I do suspect that other things came up. (like maybe the manager of the millennium threatening to quit if all of his buddies were not back and/or if Molitor was considered).

And really:

The goats for a 99 and 96 loss seasons:

Stelly and Jerry

Seriously. Net result. Think about that for a second and then think about integrity.

Thrylos
10-05-2012, 06:53 PM
There is so many conflicting reports about whats happening with this situation!


Here (http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/2012/10/presenting-new-and-improved-minnesota.html).


That is what will happen

one_eyed_jack
10-05-2012, 07:03 PM
Also, I like Molitor, but why is he assumed to be the savior of this franchise?

---Good question. Every time the subject of staff changes comes up, there's a chorus of demands for Molitor, Gladden, Hrbek, Brunansky, Carew, etc. But there's more to coaching and managing than telling war stories from your glory days. I need to see something more than "he played good for the Twins 2 or 3 decades ago" on a guy's resume to convince me he should be brought on board.

I'll join the chorus, Gladden isn't a great radio announcer, but pretty good at calling a spade a spade and was a leader on the field during his playing days and seems to be player's mentor who can light a fire of encouragment. Bruno has had some of the guys he's worked with speak up for him. Omar Vizquel has already been credited for mentoring the younger guys during his playing days. Ivan Rodriguez is begging for a coaching job and was an absolute competitor. All of these guys would be a fresh of breath air if they joined the coaching staff, after games when Gardy might claim that the players "battled their tails off" I might even tend to believe him.

---I'm actually OK with Bruno because he has a track record of coaching success. Gladden does not. I'd be thrilled if we had guys play the game the way he did. Maybe he could get guys to play that way, but his personality and playing career alone are not a basis for assuming he can. The fact that you were a great player in an orchestra does not necessarily mean you will make a great conductor. The other guys you mentioned were not Twins. I'm not against former players. I'm against the idea that being a good Twins player once upon a time means you'll make a good Twins coach today.

jokin
10-05-2012, 07:06 PM
Also, I like Molitor, but why is he assumed to be the savior of this franchise?

---Good question. Every time the subject of staff changes comes up, there's a chorus of demands for Molitor, Gladden, Hrbek, Brunansky, Carew, etc. But there's more to coaching and managing than telling war stories from your glory days. I need to see something more than "he played good for the Twins 2 or 3 decades ago" on a guy's resume to convince me he should be brought on board.

I'll join the chorus, Gladden isn't a great radio announcer, but pretty good at calling a spade a spade and was a leader on the field during his playing days and seems to be player's mentor who can light a fire of encouragment. Bruno has had some of the guys he's worked with speak up for him. Omar Vizquel has already been credited for mentoring the younger guys during his playing days. Ivan Rodriguez is begging for a coaching job and was an absolute competitor. All of these guys would be a fresh of breath air if they joined the coaching staff, after games when Gardy might claim that the players "battled their tails off" I might even tend to believe him.

---I'm actually OK with Bruno because he has a track record of coaching success. Gladden does not. I'd be thrilled if we had guys play the game the way he did. Maybe he could get guys to play that way, but his personality and playing career alone are not a basis for assuming he can. The fact that you were a great player in an orchestra does not necessarily mean you will make a great conductor. The other guys you mentioned were not Twins. I'm not against former players. I'm against the idea that being a good Twins player once upon a time means you'll be a good coach today.

So are you for or against hiring outside the organization? How about bringing in some new blood with a proven successful track record that might have a different approach to the "same old, same old" "Twins Way"?

Thrylos
10-05-2012, 07:09 PM
Also, I like Molitor, but why is he assumed to be the savior of this franchise?

---Good question. Every time the subject of staff changes comes up, there's a chorus of demands for Molitor, Gladden, Hrbek, Brunansky, Carew, etc. But there's more to coaching and managing than telling war stories from your glory days. I need to see something more than "he played good for the Twins 2 or 3 decades ago" on a guy's resume to convince me he should be brought on board.

I'll join the chorus, Gladden isn't a great radio announcer, but pretty good at calling a spade a spade and was a leader on the field during his playing days and seems to be player's mentor who can light a fire of encouragment. Bruno has had some of the guys he's worked with speak up for him. Omar Vizquel has already been credited for mentoring the younger guys during his playing days. Ivan Rodriguez is begging for a coaching job and was an absolute competitor. All of these guys would be a fresh of breath air if they joined the coaching staff, after games when Gardy might claim that the players "battled their tails off" I might even tend to believe him.

---I'm actually OK with Bruno because he has a track record of coaching success. Gladden does not. I'd be thrilled if we had guys play the game the way he did. Maybe he could get guys to play that way, but his personality and playing career alone are not a basis for assuming he can. The fact that you were a great player in an orchestra does not necessarily mean you will make a great conductor. The other guys you mentioned were not Twins. I'm not against former players. I'm against the idea that being a good Twins player once upon a time means you'll be a good coach today.

Re: Gladden:
there is an often skipped fact:
Gladden was a below average player. His career slashline is: .270/.324/.382 once he stole 32 bases (but was caught 15 times). Great 1987 post-season, sucked in 1991 post-season

So when he is on his high horse about Ben Revere...

JB_Iowa
10-05-2012, 07:27 PM
Am I correct that the 2 they fired were a 64-year-old white man and a 60-year old African-American while the gentlemen they retained (even if reassigned) were all white and younger than 60?

A call to the EEOC is probably in order.

Thrylos
10-05-2012, 07:52 PM
Am I correct that the 2 they fired were a 64-year-old white man and a 60-year old African-American while the gentlemen they retained (even if reassigned) were all white and younger than 60?

A call to the EEOC is probably in order.

well... Liddle was a 50 some white man too

as far as the call goes, 40+ is the protected age group legally. So the ones who stayed are in the same age group as the ones "whose contracts were not renewed"

PseudoSABR
10-05-2012, 08:16 PM
More information here (http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/2012/10/presenting-new-and-improved-minnesota.html).No, that's the info we already know.

What the Twins' did yesterday, was not "mishandling" it was "misleading". And I do suspect that other things came up. (like maybe the manager of the millennium threatening to quit if all of his buddies were not back and/or if Molitor was considered).Look, you admit you are guessing. You don't know what happened and what people were told and for what reasons.

Think about that for a second and then think about integrity.This is both patronizing and absurd. Whiter integrity, indeed? You're framing the situation in your preferred narrative before you necessarily know the details, and then you're stridently thumping your chest about it. Ugh.

JB_Iowa
10-05-2012, 08:19 PM
I understand that the ones retained weren't all that much younger.

I just think that the picking and choosing that they did was interesting.

And no matter what, Liddle chose to announce in advance that he was retiring so technically the non-renewal of his contract was his choice.

Thrylos
10-05-2012, 08:24 PM
More information here (http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/2012/10/presenting-new-and-improved-minnesota.html).No, that's the info we already know.

What the Twins' did yesterday, was not "mishandling" it was "misleading". And I do suspect that other things came up. (like maybe the manager of the millennium threatening to quit if all of his buddies were not back and/or if Molitor was considered).Look, you admit you are guessing. You don't know what happened and what people were told and for what reasons.

Think about that for a second and then think about integrity.This is both patronizing and absurd. Whiter integrity, indeed? You're framing the situation in your preferred narrative before you necessarily know the details, and then you're stridently thumping your chest about it. Ugh.

Hold it.

Yesterday. Scottie and Vavry were "fired". Today they resurfaced as 1st and 3rd base coaches. This is a FACT
What happened yesterday was misleading
and this speaks tons about Ryan's integrity
(to make myself clear).

Rosterman
10-05-2012, 08:44 PM
My understanding is that Molitor didn't like being a coach when he was with Seattle because of the time living there and being on the road. He took a job as a roving instructor because he could be home more and just drop in on other towns. Now that his family has aged, he is more available to the day-to-day travel grind of baseball. Or so I seem to remember.

ltwedt
10-05-2012, 08:57 PM
One interesting thing about this. Can someone clarify for me. Does this mean that the Twins are increasing their ML staff? Wasn't infield/outfield instruction previously handled by coaches?

No and Yes.

IF/OF instruction was informal. Jerry White was the OF coach.

So here are your "new" Twins' coaches:

Gardy: manager
Andy: Pitching
Scottie: Outfield/3B(or 1B)
Vavry: Infield/1B (or 3B)

and 3 openings:

Glynn: Bench
Bruno: Hitting
Cuellar: Bullpen

Awww - . . . and NOT the Dazzle Man?

PseudoSABR
10-05-2012, 08:57 PM
Scottie and Vavry were "fired". Today they resurfaced as 1st and 3rd base coaches. This is a FACT
What happened yesterday was misleading
and this speaks tons about Ryan's integrity
(to make myself clear).
You're overreacting, turbo.
From the PP:

Hitting coach Joe Vavra and bench coach Scott Ullger will stay with the Twins but with new job assignments. Vavra will become the team's infield coach, while Ullger will become the outfield coach. Ryan said both are likely to take on added responsibilities that could involve coaching first or third base. Gardenhire would make those decisions.

JB_Iowa
10-05-2012, 09:02 PM
Well, this argument is about semantics apparently.

It is pretty clear from that quote that Vavra and Ullger have merely been reassigned (new positions created) but it is also clear thtat they WERE NOT FIRED or NON-RENEWED.

And we all remember seeing how good Ullger was as the 3B coach a couple of years ago (heaven help us).

But yep, this was pretty much a public relations ploy and nothing else.

Leaves me with very little respect for this organization or those who run it.

Badsmerf
10-05-2012, 09:17 PM
Did anyone really expect different? It starts with the top and there needs to be some new blood.

DAM DC Twins Fans
10-05-2012, 09:28 PM
This whole fiasco has been mishandled.

Some said Gardy threatened to quit if Anderson was canned which should have happened--the Twins have the worst pitching...I wonder also if he threatened to walk (go to Cleveland) if Vavra was gone (he has done a good job. I also wonder if Mauer and Morneau spoke up for Vavra...

This is a mess...I also think press premature running of rumors makes it look worse than it is...of course the press does that routinely.

DAM DC Twins Fans
10-05-2012, 09:31 PM
The worst thing about this is the impact on the offseason restocking of the roster. Any chance a decent pitcher would come here as a free agent is gone--he knows that Andy and Gardy are lame ducks. Morneau's slight trade value (14 million contract, one concussion from forced retirement) has dropped cause he is unhappy. Just a mess.

one_eyed_jack
10-05-2012, 09:41 PM
So are you for or against hiring outside the organization? How about bringing in some new blood with a proven successful track record that might have a different approach to the "same old, same old" "Twins Way"?

---Totally for, I'm with you 100% on this. My preference would have been a total housecleaning and new faces brought in from outside. (I probably wasn't clear, but when I pointed to those guys you mentioned not being former Twins, I meant that as a good thing.)

ScottyB
10-05-2012, 09:48 PM
No and Yes.

IF/OF instruction was informal. Jerry White was the OF coach.

So here are your "new" Twins' coaches:

Gardy: manager
Andy: Pitching
Scottie: Outfield/3B(or 1B)
Vavry: Infield/1B (or 3B)

and 3 openings:

Glynn: Bench
Bruno: Hitting
Cuellar: Bullpen

I believe you are incorrect - check the Twins web site. Major league coaches are Gardy and Anderson. Ullger and Vavra are listed as Minor league OF Coordinator and IF Coordinator, not as major league coaches. I think we are getting new bodies in the BP, 1B Coach, 3B Coach, Bench, and Hitting. Six coaches and a manager is the limit until September, just like a 25 man limit on the roster until September. Other duties will be assigned (i.e. OF / IF coaching).

maxisagod
10-05-2012, 10:04 PM
[

Hold it.

Yesterday. Scottie and Vavry were "fired". Today they resurfaced as 1st and 3rd base coaches. This is a FACT
What happened yesterday was misleading
and this speaks tons about Ryan's integrity
(to make myself clear).

Speaks to to Ryan's integrity... huh. I would say it speaks the quality of reporting yesterday. I don't remember Ryan giving any quotes about who was fired and who wasn't before the press conference. Not that it matters, it sounds like the Polands have Ryans back even if there is another 6 seasons of below 500 ball. Gardy and Andy have been give a year to turn it around. I agree with thrylos, it looks like Scottie and Vavry are on the corners, the Twins must be convinced they have futures, if not with us, then elsewhere. Given Scotties dislike for 3rd base, I see him as our 1st base coach. If Grady is let go next year his replacement will either be Molitor, Glynn, or Ullger. My votes for Gene Glynn.

stringer bell
10-05-2012, 10:09 PM
I guess I saw that Vavra and Ullger were reassigned from the get-go. The Twins are going to have a new hitting coach and a new bullpen coach. I don't know if anyone is guaranteed a job (Brunansky, Cuellar, and Glynn). In the coaching staff, they need to get younger, add at least one Hispanic coach and maybe someone that changes the atmosphere a little.

I don't think the coaches should be scapegoats, but making changes after losing 195 games in two years should happen. The dynamics of the staff changes aren't available to us. I don't want to speculate and I don't think it is fair to do so.

mnfireman
10-05-2012, 10:28 PM
Too much BS. Speculate all you want, the decision is Ryan's, with the Pohlad's approval, real or perceived. It will all be addressed and the fans will be given answers, hopefully sooner rather than later. And everyone involved will be better served if it is sooner.

diehardtwinsfan
10-08-2012, 07:57 PM
as a general rule of thumb, people get promoted to their level of incompetence, and in many organizations, that is where they stay. At least with the Twins, they seem willing to move a guy to an area that he has demonstrated competency for in the past. I know that many would have given their right arm to see Ulger canned, and it looks like that is essentially what happened (at least to the extent that he's no longer working with the major league franchise). I'm not quite sure Vavra deserved it, and I don't get your hate of Anderson. I do think it's good that they are bringing in some fresh blood. Hopefully continues with the head of the medical staff and then some players.

Brock Beauchamp
10-08-2012, 08:52 PM
as a general rule of thumb, people get promoted to their level of incompetence, and in many organizations, that is where they stay. At least with the Twins, they seem willing to move a guy to an area that he has demonstrated competency for in the past.

Bingo. I do not understand the people who howl that Bill Smith is still in the organization. It's not an intelligent approach to managing an organization. If you have a guy like Smith who, by all accounts, was a quite capable suit-and-tie type of guy, you don't can him because he was a failure as a general manager. You wash your hands of the situation by sitting him down, explaining your issues with his performance, and put him back into the position at which he excelled. It's smart management. You don't throw a guy out on his ass because you promoted him beyond his own capabilities, you blame yourself for not properly evaluating talent and make the most of a bad situation by re-inserting that person back into a role where he can perform again. It's common ****ing sense. I often wonder if half the people around here have even worked in a real business where decisions take longer than three seconds to make and you don't ****can everybody in the office the first time they screw up. That's not how anyone runs a successful organization in any field. Good people are hard to find and the Twins may stick with guys a little too long but that's certainly better than the opposite approach.

Westgaard66
10-08-2012, 09:09 PM
I honestly would like a change, but do agree with the post above.

Obviosly these guys have some sort of knowledge and talent.

The twins can bring in three new coaches and add some new blood and revamp the medical staff, and if there isn't improvement with that, then clean house.

gilesferrell
10-08-2012, 09:17 PM
I honestly would like a change, but do agree with the post above.

Obviosly these guys have some sort of knowledge and talent.

The twins can bring in three new coaches and add some new blood and revamp the medical staff, and if there isn't improvement with that, then clean house.

Agreed. Try the new guys, but if the team show no signs of life, clean the whole house.

Lesser Dali
10-08-2012, 09:44 PM
3 things to comment on -

1. It's to bad about Molitor not being a fit for one of our coaching vacancies. I am not sure what kind of impact Molitor would have had at the end of the day, but with him being one of the best offensive tradesmen of his era might have had a better than decent impact on the position players who will be on the roster next season. His expert baserunning knowledge could have played well with a guy like Revere. I understand that Molitor coaches the players in spring training, but to have access to a coach with Molitor's experience and uber success on a day in and day out basis would have much more of an impact than only spring training.

2. There are 3 places that Ben Revere will be next season.
a. Starting in the outfield for the Twins
b. A bench player on the Twins MLB roster
c. Starting in the OF in Rochester

He has no trade value, thus he will not be traded

3. If Vavra and Ullger indeed become the base coaches for the Twins - I will lose no sleep, I will not punch a hole in the wall, I will go about my daily business as I always do. Whether it is right or wrong - the world will not end - Unless you are a 2012 Mayan Calendar conspiracy theorist. Good Luck with that nonsense.

PseudoSABR
10-08-2012, 10:18 PM
as a general rule of thumb, people get promoted to their level of incompetence, and in many organizations, that is where they stay. At least with the Twins, they seem willing to move a guy to an area that he has demonstrated competency for in the past.

Bingo. I do not understand the people who howl that Bill Smith is still in the organization. It's not an intelligent approach to managing an organization. If you have a guy like Smith who, by all accounts, was a quite capable suit-and-tie type of guy, you don't can him because he was a failure as a general manager. You wash your hands of the situation by sitting him down, explaining your issues with his performance, and put him back into the position at which he excelled. It's smart management. You don't throw a guy out on his ass because you promoted him beyond his own capabilities, you blame yourself for not properly evaluating talent and make the most of a bad situation by re-inserting that person back into a role where he can perform again. It's common ****ing sense. I often wonder if half the people around here have even worked in a real business where decisions take longer than three seconds to make and you don't ****can everybody in the office the first time they screw up. That's not how anyone runs a successful organization in any field. Good people are hard to find and the Twins may stick with guys a little too long but that's certainly better than the opposite approach.Well said.

PseudoSABR
10-08-2012, 10:20 PM
Here's an update from the strib. fyi

General Manager Terry Ryan plans to meet with Gardenhire in Fort Myers, Fla., later this week to discuss the team's coaching openings, but the timing of that meeting will hinge on the health of Gardenhire's mother.
It's unclear what roles Ullger and Vavra will have moving forward, but Ullger's duties will include outfield instruction and Vavra's will include infield instruction.

Willihammer
10-08-2012, 10:33 PM
Too much BS. Speculate all you want, the decision is Ryan's, with the Pohlad's approval, real or perceived. It will all be addressed and the fans will be given answers, hopefully sooner rather than later. And everyone involved will be better served if it is sooner.
Maybe the FO is milking this period as long as the media and fans continue to mischaracterize some of these moves as "firings," seeing that some fans are satiated by it. Certainly there is no one muzzling Gardy lamenting to the media about losing staff and not being offered an extension.

How did this even become particularly newsworthy? There are no guaranteed extensions in any occupation, certainly not sports, and certainly not if you haven't received one by mid-season. The season is over, the contracts expired, that's all.

Vavra and Ullger will sign new contracts for 2013, if they haven't already, isn't that more newsworthy? It is interesting how things have been framed.

Maybe this story whole thing has taken off better than anyone in the FO could have expected.

PseudoSABR
10-09-2012, 12:45 AM
Vavra and Ullger will sign new contracts for 2013, if they haven't already, isn't that more newsworthy? It is interesting how things have been framed.I imagine they are already under contract, hence the "reassignment."

joeboo_22
10-09-2012, 01:45 AM
I really don't understand this Vavra, Ullger stuff. Are they coaches or are they instructors? Ullger should not be a base coach. Was worse then Liddle at 3B and Liddle wasn't great. Vavra I thought did alright as a batting coach. But I only want 1 batting coach on the traveling, gameday coaching staff. I don't want half my players going to Vavra and half going to Bruno. That is only going to cause problems.

It'll be interesting to see what happens none the least. But I guess I just don't understand the reassigned which is really just a job change. Reassigned made it sound like they are still in the organization but no longer coaches. But what do I know

MWLFan
10-09-2012, 07:57 AM
I don't understand the Molitor chorus. I say this honestly and not trying to be cute. What are his qualifications for the job of manager? His 3000 hits and Hall of Fame career only take you so far here. Ted Williams was the maybe the best hitter ever and stunk as a Manager. Babe Ruth was turned down several times to a be manager of a few teams. Ryne Sandberg is working his way up through the minors, riding buses in the Midwest League a few years ago. So what level has Paul managed at? Why is he a better fit then say Gene Glynn. What are his people skills like, how does he handle it when discipline needs to be applied, what about when a different approach needs to be used for different personalities?

Not saying he can't do it, but what is his track record. I mean you can go all Kenny Williams and turn a mulit million dollar franchise over to a person with no managerial back ground because he has 3000 hits and is from St. Paul, see Robin "Can you stop pounding my head Mr. Ryan" Ventura, and hope that lightning strikes. But could you see the Vikings pulling say Fran Tarkenton back to be Head Coach or the Timberwolves bringing in JR Rider? (Got admit that last one would be fun.) Maybe Mr. Molitor should go to at least Rochester and build that Resume and see if he can succeed in the job and also if he really likes the job. He may not like it as much as he thinks.

Willihammer
10-09-2012, 08:14 AM
Vavra and Ullger will sign new contracts for 2013, if they haven't already, isn't that more newsworthy? It is interesting how things have been framed.I imagine they are already under contract, hence the "reassignment."

Is that true? I am having a hard time finding out for sure. In the Mackey article, he says all the coaches signed 2 years extensions after 2010, except Gardy