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View Full Version : May as well expand it - Minnesota Twins fire or reassign all but one coach



ofx1
10-04-2012, 08:21 PM
http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_21699041/minnesota-twins-shake-up-coaching-staff

I disagree with both the Stelmaszek and White moves, but anything that gets Ullger and Vavra further away from the on field team is ok by me.

It does make one wonder if Gardy is on thin ice...

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
10-04-2012, 08:40 PM
http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_21699041/minnesota-twins-shake-up-coaching-staff

I disagree with both the Stelmaszek and White moves, but anything that gets Ullger and Vavra further away from the on field team is ok by me.

It does make one wonder if Gardy is on thin ice...

I do believe Gardy is on thin ice going into next season. All those coaches contracts expired. Gardy and Anderson have one year left. I have to believe if TR goes out and gets two decent pitchers and nothing changes next year both will be gone. Im really excited about Bruno coming up, Parmelee and Plouffe played well for him, and maybe he can get Morneau and Mauer to hit a couple more over the fence. Exciting first day for the Twins offseason. Hopefully theres some more moves coming (player wise).

Pius Jefferson
10-04-2012, 08:45 PM
I do wonder if the front office wouldn't mind Gardy stepping down. Today proved that his opinion really didn't matter anymore and there's a strong chance that possibly three members of the coaching staff could step in and replace him.

whydidnt
10-04-2012, 08:48 PM
Seems crazy that Anderson still has a job when you consider how you lousy the pitching has been the last couple of years. He would have been the first to go if I was making the decisions. He doesn't make enough for one year's salary to make that big of difference.

joeboo_22
10-04-2012, 08:49 PM
I'm not against the changes, however I thought Rick Anderson was as big of problem as the rest of them.

The Twins had fired one coach (Al Newmon) during Gardy's tenure, if this doesn't shout, THIN ICE, I don't know what does

Pius Jefferson
10-04-2012, 08:58 PM
It's crazy if they don't improve the starting rotation. If they can bring in two quality starters than let's see what Anderson does next season.

stringer bell
10-04-2012, 09:12 PM
Looking at what Anderson has had to work with, I can't be too critical of what he has done. That said, there has to be some price to pay for terrible results the last two years. While I don't blame any coach for the poor results, the results produced on the field are unacceptable and something needs to be changed.

Boom Boom
10-04-2012, 09:23 PM
Ryan, Gardenhire, and Anderson deserved more scrutiny than any of those guys.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
10-04-2012, 09:33 PM
Ryan, Gardenhire, and Anderson deserved more scrutiny than any of those guys.

You are 100% Correct, Gardy should be held accountable for most of it. Anderson with all honesty hasnt had much to work with pitching wise, but he should be canned as well.

Jim Crikket
10-04-2012, 09:39 PM
As pointed out by Aaron Gleeman in his blog post tonight, (http://aarongleeman.com/2012/10/05/the-end-3/) the Twins website is listing Ullger's and Vavra's responsibilities as MINOR LEAGUE instructors. If true, that's a bit of a different story than what the local media has been reporting and would leave only Gardy and Andy as holdovers for the Twins field management staff.

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/team/coaches.jsp?c_id=min

Riverbrian
10-04-2012, 10:28 PM
Well there it is... New coaches... New voices will be coming in... Lets add some new pitchers to the list and hopefully 2013 will be better.

Don't know what to expect next year but I do hope... At the very least... To see some hard slides into 2nd base. Pitching inside on occasion... A catcher train tracked every once in awhile. I'd even like to see some head first Punto slides into 1st base. Diving catches and players going for the extra base. Maybe an occasional dugout clearing over reaction to a funny look given by the opposing team. Haven't seen a bunch of that kinda stuff the last few years. If we lose... Lets lose running into walls. If we win... Lets win running into walls.

I'm not surprised but its still kinda strange. More firings today than the decade total.

glunn
10-04-2012, 10:29 PM
I wonder how this will affect team morale next year.

Jim Crikket
10-04-2012, 10:41 PM
Media reports of the relationships between players and coaches having gone "stale" and players tuning out the same old voices wouldn't surprise me. In fact there have been hints of that already in recent days. Honestly, though, if morale is bad I would hope it's because players are pissed about back to back 99 and 96 loss seasons, not because the familiar coaches are gone.

lecroy24fan
10-04-2012, 10:54 PM
As pointed out by Aaron Gleeman in his blog post tonight, (http://aarongleeman.com/2012/10/05/the-end-3/) the Twins website is listing Ullger's and Vavra's responsibilities as MINOR LEAGUE instructors. If true, that's a bit of a different story than what the local media has been reporting and would leave only Gardy and Andy as holdovers for the Twins field management staff.

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/team/coaches.jsp?c_id=min
I assumed they meant minor league instructors, as they really don't have major league instructors.

nicksaviking
10-04-2012, 10:55 PM
Shocking, the field leaders, Gardenhire and Anderson along with the front office leaders, Ryan, Rantz and Krivsky decide to fire their underlings. This is a cop out on a grand scale, it is simply a last ditch effort to keep as much of the old boys club together as possible. There had to be some scapegoats so obviously it had to be the firstbase coach and the guy who answers the phone in the bullpen. Shame on Stelmaszek and White for failing to identify and cultivate capable pitchers to complete a major league rotation.

I've been disappointed in decisions Ryan has made in the past in regards to free agents and missing out on trades, but my feeling now is disgust. Had the entire coaching staff been let go, or any combination pf coaches including Anderson been let go, the mass firing would have seem like a step in a new direction. Rick Anderson has been a great Twin and it sounds like even a finer human being, but fair or not, this club's failure comes under his pervue, he needed to go to make this look like anything more than the farce it is.

Chip Chipperson
10-04-2012, 11:51 PM
The only reason why I don't mind Anderson sticking around is that I think a large portion of the problem is not his fault. It's obvious from the way that we draft that the pitch-to-contact obsession is part of the organizational plan. Do we really want Blackburn, Slowey, Hendrix, etc, to go up there and try to blow away hitters? It's not possible. Once at the major league level, everyone we have is an obvious pitch-to-contact guy, what's Anderson supposed to do?

It's like he's stuck between baseball and a hard place, or somethin...

Badsmerf
10-05-2012, 06:40 AM
what's Anderson supposed to do?

Well, first off he's not supposed to try to fit every pitcher into the same mold. Deduno this season is really the first that was allowed to pitch his own way. Not everyone can throw a sinking fastball.

Roaddog
10-05-2012, 07:42 AM
We knew Vavra was gone. Ryan did an interview not to long ago saying Bruno was a MLB coach. With all the young kids on the way up, it makes sense.I just don't know if i'm keen on Vavra instructing anyone in the organization. Stelmasek i think is kind of a symbolic move. Lets the team know no one is safe. I honestly think Anderson should go as well. I just dont think he has developed young pitchers like he should.

twinkiesfan11
10-05-2012, 08:00 AM
Shocking, the field leaders, Gardenhire and Anderson along with the front office leaders, Ryan, Rantz and Krivsky decide to fire their underlings. This is a cop out on a grand scale, it is simply a last ditch effort to keep as much of the old boys club together as possible. There had to be some scapegoats so obviously it had to be the firstbase coach and the guy who answers the phone in the bullpen. Shame on Stelmaszek and White for failing to identify and cultivate capable pitchers to complete a major league rotation.

I've been disappointed in decisions Ryan has made in the past in regards to free agents and missing out on trades, but my feeling now is disgust. Had the entire coaching staff been let go, or any combination pf coaches including Anderson been let go, the mass firing would have seem like a step in a new direction. Rick Anderson has been a great Twin and it sounds like even a finer human being, but fair or not, this club's failure comes under his pervue, he needed to go to make this look like anything more than the farce it is.

I completely disagree, I don't think anyone who was let go yesterday is being made a scapegoat by the organization. To me, it seems as if Terry Ryan felt the MLB Clubhouse needed some fresh perspective and to make that happen some contracts were not renewed. There are some very capable replacements within the organization that need to be advanced which opens the door to bring in more fresh perspective to the minor league system. No one on this staff should be shocked by this, it's not so much that any of them failed as it is that the product on the field was terrible and some change was necessary.

I have no problem with Gardy and Andy getting one last chance with a new supporting cast. Maybe these coaching changes and a few shrewd acquisitions will put this team back into contention in 2013. It's not out of the realm of possibility, Oakland and Baltimore both had very successful seasons in more difficult divisions with no more talent than the Twins. If not, they're probably both out on their asses by midseason.

mike wants wins
10-05-2012, 08:17 AM
if they are bad coaches that need replacing, and your strategy is to build through the minors, why send them to teach minor league players how to play? What an awful understanding of strategy and use of resources.

Kirby_Waved_At_Me
10-05-2012, 09:07 AM
I'll be interested to see who ends up in the now vacant spots - it seems like the early indications were that AAA coaches were all moving up - Glynn to be the 3rd base coach, Bruno to be the hitting coach and Cuellar to be the bullpen coach.
Depending on who the new bench coach and the new first base coach is, I think we could possibly see the first mid-season firing of the Manager in Minnesota in a long, long time...

wavedog
10-05-2012, 09:35 AM
I find it interesting that Glynn is being moved up to be 3rd base coach - I may be reading into it too much but it seems like 2013 might be a year of transition/training for him and then Gardy will step down and Glynn will be named manager in 2014. Otherwise why not keep Glynn in Rochester where he did a good job? Doesn't Gardy's contract run out after 2013?

lecroy24fan
10-05-2012, 09:55 AM
Glynn was also coaching 3B at Rochester, so it makes sense. Gardy's contract does run out after 2013. I don't know that Glynn is necessarily in line to be the next manager.

nokomismod
10-05-2012, 10:24 AM
Does Molitor fit in anywhere?

nicksaviking
10-05-2012, 10:34 AM
Anyone hopeing Gardy and his staff would eventually be replaced by people outside the organization by bringing in new blood and new ideas has got to be disappointed. These promotions certainly seem to be an indicator that the Twins are still only going to promote from within Twins Territory. St. Peter and Ryan need to go if 2013 does not pan out.

lecroy24fan
10-05-2012, 10:41 AM
Does Molitor fit in anywhere?

Bench Coach is up for grabs.

TK10
10-05-2012, 10:55 AM
Why all this talk about wins and losses in terms of measuring Gardy's performance? Sabermetrics has proven wins and losses is an antiquated stat. Gardy's WAR is still pretty impressive.

wavedog
10-05-2012, 11:00 AM
I guess if Gardy is here longer than next year we should be hearing about an extension soon - normally you don't let the manager dangle the last year. Also unusual to see most of the staff go without the manager - I assume those were Gardy's guys as long as they worked with him. I can't complain about the moves - Bruno and Cuellar have good reps and something was need to shake up the organization after 2 dismal seasons. I can't pinpoint the reason for losing as that the coaches removed weren't doing a good job - more so the talent was not up to par but there is certainly room for improvement.

Winston Smith
10-05-2012, 11:47 AM
"Sabermetrics has proven wins and losses is an antiquated stat." Not sure this is true sense they still use that antiquated win/loss stat to decide which teams make the playoffs at the end of the season.

Kirby_Waved_At_Me
10-05-2012, 11:51 AM
Molitor would be up for Bench Coach or First Base Coach - if he gets either one, I imagine there would be a push for him to be the interim Manager if Gardenhire were let go mid season next year,.

nicksaviking
10-05-2012, 12:15 PM
"Sabermetrics has proven wins and losses is an antiquated stat." Not sure this is true sense they still use that antiquated win/loss stat to decide which teams make the playoffs at the end of the season.

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic seeing as he referrenced the managers imaginary WAR. Anyway, I thought it was humorous.

Nick Nelson
10-05-2012, 12:42 PM
I know there are some people complaining about coaches being brought up from within the organization rather than outside, but it seems worth noting that Rochester improved from 53 wins in 2011 to 72 wins in 2012 with the new coaching staff. This despite having basically their entire pitching staff called up to the majors.

nicksaviking
10-05-2012, 01:49 PM
I know there are some people complaining about coaches being brought up from within the organization rather than outside, but it seems worth noting that Rochester improved from 53 wins in 2011 to 72 wins in 2012 with the new coaching staff. This despite having basically their entire pitching staff called up to the majors.

I really have no problem with the promotions in themselves, they are well deserved, I'm just irked this whole process. Terry Ryan took a half measure by getting rid of the least culpable coaches while retaining the two guys at the head of the table. Ryan should have gotten rid of everyone or no one.

If the Twins crash and burn in 2013 and Gardy, Anderson AND Ryan get the axe, a new GM from outside the orgainzation is going to cut ties with everyone, making Brunansky, Glynn, Cuellar and whoever else lame duck coaches next year even though there will be ardent supporters for them. If they stay within the orgzanization, which is about a 90% certainty, more legacy Twins employees get the jobs despite the fact their assistance was not enough to preserve the job of their predecessors. It all just seems like a long con to ensure hiring out of house is as difficult and messy as possible thus ensuring the need to keep the current front office intact.

JB_Iowa
10-05-2012, 02:02 PM
This just reeks of cheap. Too cheap to pay off Gardenhire for next year and a new manager too. (May be the same thing with Anderson, who knows?)

Meanwhile, other than McWane, all the same people in the front office (who fed Smith the info on which to make his decisions) all appear (yes, I know that could change) to be left in place.

So far this whole thing is just a bad joke.