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Jeremy Nygaard
10-04-2012, 07:47 PM
Based on Hot Sheet appearances, the Twins system would rank #19, which will probably be very close to where they'll rank when they do their system rankings.

Guys that show up on Top 20's:

International League
5. Chris Parmelee, 1B

Eastern League
6. Oswaldo Arcia, RF
8. Aaron Hicks, CF

Florida State League
7. Oswaldo Arcia, RF

Midwest League
2. Miguel Sano, 3B
12. Eddie Rosario, 2B/CF

Appy League
1. Byron Buxton, CF
7. Max Kepler, LF

Gulf Coast League
1. Byron Buxton, CF

Pius Jefferson
10-04-2012, 07:53 PM
The lack of pitchers is disconcerting. Berrios aside who didn't make it for whatever reason is the only guy really worthy.

Thrylos
10-04-2012, 08:08 PM
Eastern League
6. Oswaldo Arcia, RF


Florida State League
7. Oswaldo Arcia, RF




Just this, is an great example for the reasons I do not care about BA.
You cannot rank the same guy 6th best in a AA league and 7th best in a high A league. Just ridiculous...

jorgenswest
10-04-2012, 08:17 PM
Not much pitching.

Jeremy Nygaard
10-04-2012, 08:45 PM
Just this, is an great example for the reasons I do not care about BA.
You cannot rank the same guy 6th best in a AA league and 7th best in a high A league. Just ridiculous...

To which I ask... Why the hell not?

There are 5 higher-rated prospects in the Eastern League and 6 higher-rated prospects in the FSL.

Or are we going with the theory that the best prospects are at the higher level...? Because then this discussion just got a lot more ridiculous.

Jeremy Nygaard
10-04-2012, 08:45 PM
Not much pitching.

Berrios would have ranked in both the GCL and Appy League had he qualified. But you're right... no pitching.

Joe
10-04-2012, 08:48 PM
Eastern League
6. Oswaldo Arcia, RF


Florida State League
7. Oswaldo Arcia, RF




Just this, is an great example for the reasons I do not care about BA.
You cannot rank the same guy 6th best in a AA league and 7th best in a high A league. Just ridiculous...

Since you obviously couldn't figure it out, let me give you a scenario. Jurickson Profar, the #1 prospect in baseball plays in the Eastern League and is ranked #1 in the Eastern League with Dylan Bundy #2. Profar skips to the majors, or goes to the PCL. Dylan is then gets promoted to the International League where he is now the #1 prospect in the International League, while being the #2 prospect in the Eastern League.

This is just a scenario, but it is how it works.

Thrylos
10-04-2012, 09:09 PM
Just this, is an great example for the reasons I do not care about BA.
You cannot rank the same guy 6th best in a AA league and 7th best in a high A league. Just ridiculous...

To which I ask... Why the hell not?

There are 5 higher-rated prospects in the Eastern League and 6 higher-rated prospects in the FSL.

Or are we going with the theory that the best prospects are at the higher level...? Because then this discussion just got a lot more ridiculous.






Eastern League
6. Oswaldo Arcia, RF


Florida State League
7. Oswaldo Arcia, RF




Just this, is an great example for the reasons I do not care about BA.
You cannot rank the same guy 6th best in a AA league and 7th best in a high A league. Just ridiculous...

Since you obviously couldn't figure it out, let me give you a scenario. Jurickson Profar, the #1 prospect in baseball plays in the Eastern League and is ranked #1 in the Eastern League with Dylan Bundy #2. Profar skips to the majors, or goes to the PCL. Dylan is then gets promoted to the International League where he is now the #1 prospect in the International League, while being the #2 prospect in the Eastern League.

This is just a scenario, but it is how it works.

Well... my objection is that:

if a player did better (objectively) in a higher league, there is no way he should be ranked lower in a lower league. Arcia proved himself in AA. More than half of those who are ranked ahead of him at high A did not...
BA is all about the nephelious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephele)concept of "potential" while turning their back to actual performance. I'd love to see what those guys who were ranked ahead of him in high A do in AA for starters...

kab21
10-04-2012, 10:04 PM
Well... my objection is that:

if a player did better (objectively) in a higher league, there is no way he should be ranked lower in a lower league. Arcia proved himself in AA. More than half of those who are ranked ahead of him at high A did not...
BA is all about the nephelious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephele)concept of "potential" while turning their back to actual performance. I'd love to see what those guys who were ranked ahead of him in high A do in AA for starters...

There are things to question and complain about and then there are things like this. You haven't even seen the prospects on both lists that ranked ahead of Arcia yet you object.

darin617
10-04-2012, 10:08 PM
Not much pitching.

Don't you me absolutely no pitching would be just a little more accurate.

Vervehound
10-05-2012, 11:09 AM
Eastern League
6. Oswaldo Arcia, RF


Florida State League
7. Oswaldo Arcia, RF




Just this, is an great example for the reasons I do not care about BA.
You cannot rank the same guy 6th best in a AA league and 7th best in a high A league. Just ridiculous...

seriously? there couldn't be better prospects in high-A than 2-A one year? i think your gripe is missing any and all nuance with the process - a process b.a. is pretty clear about. they talk to a lot of scouts and managers within a league and have generally laid eyeballs on the players for the leagues they're covering. what they're doing is taking the consensus. is it possible that ten people watching arcia while he was with n.b. thought more highly than ten others who saw him playing at ft. myers? considering he hit better at 2-A, i would say that's likely, not just possible. b.a. is the best by miles.

J-Dog Dungan
10-05-2012, 04:47 PM
I think the fact that the Twins have had such a dearth of good pitching and having healthy pitching prospects in their system over the last few years, it is easy for rankers to kinda unconsciously give them the heave-ho when deciding who to rank.

kab21
10-07-2012, 10:18 PM
Based on Hot Sheet appearances, the Twins system would rank #19, which will probably be very close to where they'll rank when they do their system rankings.


I never responded to this but I don't think the Twins will rank anywhere near #19. The twins were 20th last year and there were several players that had great seasons while they only had a few disappointments and graduations. they also added Buxton and Berrios to the system. I think they will fall just outside of the top ten. tbh they even have a chance to crack the top 10. this is a pretty strong farm system even if there isn't a lot of pitching.

jokin
10-09-2012, 11:41 PM
Based on Hot Sheet appearances, the Twins system would rank #19, which will probably be very close to where they'll rank when they do their system rankings.


I never responded to this but I don't think the Twins will rank anywhere near #19. The twins were 20th last year and there were several players that had great seasons while they only had a few disappointments and graduations. they also added Buxton and Berrios to the system. I think they will fall just outside of the top ten. tbh they even have a chance to crack the top 10. this is a pretty strong farm system even if there isn't a lot of pitching.

Top Ten? A pretty strong farm system? Seriously?

While I am, like most of us, excited about certain guys down at A-/Rk level (where the flame-out rate is very high), who is major league-impact-ready in the next two years besides Arcia and Hicks (Sano and possibly Rosario are probably 2015 at earliest)? I can't find anybody on the roster at AAA (they don't even consider their lights-out reliever worthy of a call-up). Ft Myers was woeful (you could flat out cut about 20 guys there and you wouldn't know the difference), besides Chris Herrman, there are a couple of starting pitchers at AA who might become back-end major leaguers and that's about it. The two MIs brought up this season were acquired this season and they didn't exactly set the world on fire, what does that say about the rest? This is anything but a "pretty strong farm system".

kab21
10-10-2012, 12:07 AM
Fortunately systems are deeper than AA/AAA ball. Overall the Twins have 2 guys that will probably be in top 25 lists, 5 that will probably be in the top 75 and several others like Kepler, Berrios, Gibson, Polanco, Harrison and Goodrum to give the system pretty good depth. It's still a bottom heavy system but there is a lot of talent in this system.

Jeremy Nygaard
10-10-2012, 06:10 AM
Based on Hot Sheet appearances, the Twins system would rank #19, which will probably be very close to where they'll rank when they do their system rankings.


I never responded to this but I don't think the Twins will rank anywhere near #19. The twins were 20th last year and there were several players that had great seasons while they only had a few disappointments and graduations. they also added Buxton and Berrios to the system. I think they will fall just outside of the top ten. tbh they even have a chance to crack the top 10. this is a pretty strong farm system even if there isn't a lot of pitching.

I've think we've discussed this on other threads - and disagreed. The Twins are a few years away from being a Top 10 system... I put them in the 14-18 range and I would be more surprised to see them ranked higher than that than lower than that.

SpiritofVodkaDave
10-10-2012, 09:09 AM
Twins will be in the top 12 in many publications next year. They added back a healthy Gibson, Berrios, Buxton and guys like Hicks, Rosario and Arcia all took steps forward. Plus they have a few guys sneaking up the charts like Kepler, Jones etc.

Kab is right, they didn't really have anyone fall off the map and the only guys who graduated weren't really top 10 guys anyways (Parmelee was close though)

kab21
10-11-2012, 09:06 PM
I've think we've discussed this on other threads - and disagreed. The Twins are a few years away from being a Top 10 system... I put them in the 14-18 range and I would be more surprised to see them ranked higher than that than lower than that.

So you're saying that the Twins system is only a little better than last year?