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IdahoPilgrim
10-04-2012, 11:23 AM
The Star Tribune is reporting that bullpen coach Rich Stelmaszek has been let go.

I knew there would be shake-ups, but I'm a little surprised at this. The bullpen wasn't really the problem this year.

My guess is this signals a fairly substantial overhaul on the coaching staff.

Twins Fan From Afar
10-04-2012, 11:32 AM
How deep will this overhaul go?
Wayne "Big Fella" Hattaway??? :p

Boom Boom
10-04-2012, 11:33 AM
Fired? Wasn't his contract up anyway?

I think it would be more accurate to say he won't be brought back. He's close to retiring anyway - isn't he about 120 years old?

IdahoPilgrim
10-04-2012, 11:35 AM
Fired? Wasn't his contract up anyway?

I think it would be more accurate to say he won't be brought back. He's close to retiring anyway - isn't he about 120 years old?

When I made the thread title, I was "quoting" the Star Tribune headline, which used the word fired. In retrospect you are correct, but I don't know how to edit a thread title.

The end result is the same, though. If you read the Strib article, it sure doesn't sound like this was a voluntary retirement.

Willihammer
10-04-2012, 11:58 AM
I also gaffed in the title of my last submission. Why can't submitters edit titles?

Badsmerf
10-04-2012, 12:01 PM
My guess is this signals a fairly substantial overhaul on the coaching staff.

My hit list includes Rick McWane- Head Athletic Trainer, Tucker Lanning- Rehab Coordinator, Ron Gardenhire- Manager, Rick Anderson- pitching coach, Eric Rasmussen- Pitching Coordinator. None of these guys will end up getting fired, but all should be seriously asked about their role in this cluster ****.

mikeee
10-04-2012, 12:16 PM
It will make the press conference more interesting!

JB_Iowa
10-04-2012, 12:27 PM
My guess is this signals a fairly substantial overhaul on the coaching staff.

Or not ... we could just see a couple of token changes.

JB_Iowa
10-04-2012, 12:28 PM
how deep will this overhaul go?
Wayne "big fella" hattaway??? :p


p.o.d.

jctwins
10-04-2012, 12:55 PM
This is unbelievable. This move is step 1 to a world championship.

J-Dog Dungan
10-04-2012, 01:02 PM
My guess is this signals a fairly substantial overhaul on the coaching staff.

Or not ... we could just see a couple of token changes.

Token changes? Did YOU have any idea that Stelly's job was on the chopping block? This seems to me like the start of a coaching overhaul the size of which I myself haven't seen in my tender years as a Twins fan.

Winston Smith
10-04-2012, 01:02 PM
It would seem you start at the top work your way down. If this is the top down move then Hattaway indeed could be next.

The bullpen coach probably has the least impact of any coach. His basic job is to answer the phone, get the right guy up to warm up and tell the pitching coach when he's ready. Now is it possible that Stelly has bad phone skills, possible, or is it possible he didn't keep enough sunflower seeds on hand, seems more likely.

SweetOne69
10-04-2012, 01:06 PM
Tom Powers of the Pioneer Press believes the Glynn, Brunansky and Cuellar from Rochester will be promoted to the Twins' staff. In order to promote them they need to make room. With Stelly's dismissal and Liddle's rumored retirement they already have spots for Cuellar and Glynn. Now they just have to make room for Brunansky. Powers feels that Brunansky will replace Vavra as the hitting coach, but Vavra will remain with the organization in some capacity.

PseudoSABR
10-04-2012, 01:18 PM
Tom Powers of the Pioneer Press believes the Glynn, Brunansky and Cuellar from Rochester will be promoted to the Twins' staff. In order to promote them they need to make room. With Stelly's dismissal and Liddle's rumored retirement they already have spots for Cuellar and Glynn. Now they just have to make room for Brunansky. Powers feels that Brunansky will replace Vavra as the hitting coach, but Vavra will remain with the organization in some capacity.This makes sense.

JB_Iowa
10-04-2012, 01:22 PM
Did YOU have any idea that Stelly's job was on the chopping block? This seems to me like the start of a coaching overhaul the size of which I myself haven't seen in my tender years as a Twins fan.

No, I did not see this coming. And it seems an odd place to start to me.

But I also remember last year when we had the 2 firings in Rochester (and the promotions of Glynn & Brunansky) and nothing else (until Bill Smith wanted to go on spending money & Pohlad said no). So I have a hard time drawing any conclusions from what we've seen so far.

SpiritofVodkaDave
10-04-2012, 01:25 PM
Tom Powers of the Pioneer Press believes the Glynn, Brunansky and Cuellar from Rochester will be promoted to the Twins' staff. In order to promote them they need to make room. With Stelly's dismissal and Liddle's rumored retirement they already have spots for Cuellar and Glynn. Now they just have to make room for Brunansky. Powers feels that Brunansky will replace Vavra as the hitting coach, but Vavra will remain with the organization in some capacity.
I like this line of thinking, having Cuellar helping out the pitchers as well should be awesome, ideally in 2013 he is able to work closely with Gibson, Hendriks and the other guys he has had in AAA recently. It wouldn't shock me if they are grooming him to take over for Anderson in a couple years.

Brunansky as the hitting coach is a nice breath of fresh air as well, though I do hope they keep Vavra around in some capacity. As far as a bench coach goes, I almost wish they would wait a bit to see what managers get fired in the coming days, if someone like a Ron Washington gets canned I would love to bring him or Ozzie in.

Willihammer
10-04-2012, 01:30 PM
Sounds like they're going to use 2013 as a transition year.

Vavra re-assigned, Liddle let go as of a few mins ago, says KFAN

Dilligaf69
10-04-2012, 01:33 PM
Not really a big deal is it??? He's a bullpen coach and the pitching coach still works with ALL pitchers so not exactly the sole reason the bullpen was improved...after all it sucked last yr and the same guy was there. I have no problem with these moves and I'm sure more will come. I would like to see Bruno as the hitting coach also and Glynn and Cuellar work as well if that's what they do. What isn't happening is Gardy getting fired so get over it.

Dilligaf69
10-04-2012, 01:36 PM
Jim Souhan ‏@SouhanStrib I've heard Brunansky new hit coach,Gene Glynn 3b coach, Bobby Cuellar new BP coach. Paul Molitor should be on staff, but not sure will be
Retweeted

IdahoPilgrim
10-04-2012, 01:39 PM
What I find interesting is they didn't even wait until the organizational meetings started. This has obviously been in the works for some time now.

Mr. Ed
10-04-2012, 01:39 PM
it seems an odd place to start to me.

It would appear the changes are coming as each is meeting with Mr. Ryan, so Stelly was first to meet.

Mr. Ed
10-04-2012, 01:40 PM
What I find interesting is they didn't even wait until the organizational meetings started. This has obviously been in the works for some time now.

New staff on board for org meetings so they can move forward immediately on plans, I would think.

Winston Smith
10-04-2012, 02:10 PM
I wonder if the Red Wing job could go to Redmond?

ashburyjohn
10-04-2012, 02:17 PM
I will be interested in learning Gardenhire's spin on the coaching changes as they emerge. At some point, a manager says "hey, these are MY guys". I guess Gardy isn't going to go to the mat for them.

JB_Iowa
10-04-2012, 02:26 PM
I will be interested in learning Gardenhire's spin on the coaching changes as they emerge. At some point, a manager says "hey, these are MY guys". I guess Gardy isn't going to go to the mat for them.

Ah, but the "Triumverate" of Gardenhire - Anderson - Ullger looks like it may remain intact.

More's the pity. I think he may have sacrificed the edges to save the core. We'll have to see if that's the way it plays out.

Pius Jefferson
10-04-2012, 02:34 PM
I wonder if the Red Wing job could go to Redmond?


I was thinking Ullger is named manager at Rochester.

IdahoPilgrim
10-04-2012, 02:36 PM
I wonder if the Red Wing job could go to Redmond?

They were speculating on the radio that Jake Mauer might get it.

Willihammer
10-04-2012, 02:36 PM
I assume Ullger and Andy will follow Gardy to his next gig following the '13 season.

IdahoPilgrim
10-04-2012, 02:41 PM
Ah, but the "Triumverate" of Gardenhire - Anderson - Ullger looks like it may remain intact.

More's the pity. I think he may have sacrificed the edges to save the core. We'll have to see if that's the way it plays out.

You make it sound like this is a ploy to pacify the fans while not making real changes:).

I think you are correct, though, that Anderson's job is probably safe. My guess is the reason for letting Stelmaszek go was they wanted to bring Cuellar up and needed a spot for him, and Stellie was considered more expendable than Anderson.

ScottyB
10-04-2012, 02:41 PM
I'd love to see Molly replace Ullger as bench coach

JB_Iowa
10-04-2012, 02:54 PM
Ah, but the "Triumverate" of Gardenhire - Anderson - Ullger looks like it may remain intact.

More's the pity. I think he may have sacrificed the edges to save the core. We'll have to see if that's the way it plays out.

You make it sound like this is a ploy to pacify the fans while not making real changes:).

I think you are correct, though, that Anderson's job is probably safe. My guess is the reason for letting Stelmaszek go was they wanted to bring Cuellar up and needed a spot for him, and Stellie was considered more expendable than Anderson.

Well, you know I'm a cynic about this. I actually think it has to do with the fact that Gardenhire and Anderson have been together "forever". Not sure of how long his history is with Ullger but it is definitely longer on the major league team than it is with Vavra.

LaBombo
10-04-2012, 03:03 PM
An organization that employs Scott Ullger doesn't deserve to win.

nicksaviking
10-04-2012, 03:24 PM
So can we assume Cuellar will be more involved in grooming pitchers than Stelly? I don't think he should be wasted baby-sitting the guys in the pen instead of teaching the guys one step away from the MLB rotation. If he's going to be used essentially as co-pitching coach with Anderson, I think it's a great idea. I proposed earlier the Twins should have two hitting coaches to provide enough time to breaking down tape and refining the hitting approaches of the many young hitters. The same would be a good idea with the pitchers.

mike wants wins
10-04-2012, 03:27 PM
So rather than have cuelleler work with young guys, he will now work with older guys that pitch 60 innings a year? Seems an odd use of a valuable resource. It also seems like scapegoating to me to fire the bullpen coach.

Willihammer
10-04-2012, 03:40 PM
the only one actually fired is Liddle, correct?

SweetOne69
10-04-2012, 03:42 PM
the only one actually fired is Liddle, correct?

Technically no one was fired, but both Stelly and Liddle are not having their contracts renewed for 2013.

Willihammer
10-04-2012, 03:56 PM
There you go. No one's feelings are hurt but I only wonder if 2013 will be a punt

Winston Smith
10-04-2012, 04:13 PM
"Ah, but the "Triumverate" of Gardenhire - Anderson - Ullger looks like it may remain intact."

It would appear so. It may be time for a contest to name the three ____________ examples are: little pigs, kings, amigos, blind mice, horsemen, musketeers, wise-men and my favorite stooges!

Mr. Ed
10-04-2012, 04:28 PM
I wonder if the Red Wing job could go to Redmond?

They were speculating on the radio that Jake Mauer might get it.

Jeff Smith deserves it more than Jake.

IdahoPilgrim
10-04-2012, 04:47 PM
I wonder if the Red Wing job could go to Redmond?

They were speculating on the radio that Jake Mauer might get it.

Jeff Smith deserves it more than Jake.

Apparently, according to R&M, Smith is not thought of as highly in the organization and is unlikely to be advanced beyond where he is now.

joeboo_22
10-04-2012, 05:04 PM
I don't have a problem with Jake Mauer at AAA, though I think he is better in Florida.

Other then Liddle at 3B I didn't think the other coaches were doing too bad of a job. I'm guessing that this points to a better get better or its your @$$ next year for Gardy. You don't fire 3-4 coaches and get much slack.

JB_Iowa
10-04-2012, 05:14 PM
I don't know what it points to but it does seem to me that we're still seeing a refusal to bring in talent from outside the organization. I'm waiting to see if the front office also remains stagnant. While Cuellar, Brunansky and Glynn may have deserved promotions, is that the best thing for Rochester -- or more importantly, for the big league club if they need to be developing young players? I asked that once earlier this season -- how should we be looking at where certain coaches do the most good?

Nothing that has happened today gives me any cause for celebration or any true indication that things are much different. I'll be interested to see how this all plays out but so far it is looking like "appeasement" and not much more.

J-Dog Dungan
10-04-2012, 05:15 PM
Yeah, for those who were saying that this isn't a major shakeup is just kinda wrong. LVEN3's updated post states that Rick McWane, Rick Stelmaszek, Steve Liddle, and Jerry White have been let go, and Vavra and Ullger will be overseeing infield and outfield instruction, respectively.

JB_Iowa
10-04-2012, 05:25 PM
And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.

Dilligaf69
10-04-2012, 05:29 PM
And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.

Gardy has only one more yr left so it's make or break for him next yr....again not that big a deal. The Twins don't have the talent up and down the roster especially the starting rotation.

JB_Iowa
10-04-2012, 06:02 PM
For those of you who proclaim this as a big shake-up in the Twins coaching staff, I'd like to point out that it may be a shake-up (although how big is questionable) but it certainly isn't an overhaul.

If you had been asked at the beginning of the day, "who are the 4 primary (or top) coaches in the Twins major league organizaton"? What would you have responded?

I know that my own response (and I would guess a lot of people's response) would have been Ron Gardenhire, Rick Anderson, Joe Vavra and Scott Ullger.

Well guess what? All 4 of them still have jobs with the major league club. (That could still change but at least from Bollinger's article on mlb.com, it looks like the firings are over). Yes, Vavra and Ullger were reassigned -- but again, WITH the major league club to something called infield and outfield instructors.

Who was not retained? 64 year old bullpen coach Rick Stelmazek, 60 year old 1st base coach Jerry White and Steve Liddle (who had apparently had the good sense prior to this to say he was going to retire).

Yes, Head Trainer Rick McWane was also fired but that is a front office position that should be discussed seperately.

Before today, when you thought about the Twins' difficulties of the last 2 years, would you have said: "Well, Liddle, Stelly and White are the problems?"

Of course not.

They may only be on 1 year contracts now but Gardenhire, Anderson, Vavra and Ullger have still not taken any responsiblity for the debacle of the last 2 years.

And for that matter, as long as McWane is the only person in the front office who loses his job, the front offices hasn't done so either.

drjim
10-04-2012, 06:05 PM
And for that matter, as long as McWane is the only person in the front office who loses his job, the front offices hasn't done so either.

You do realize the general manager was fired less than a year ago right?

PseudoSABR
10-04-2012, 06:29 PM
LEN3 says Ulger is out too.http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/172663381.html


Bullpen coach Rick Stelmaszek, third base coach Steve Liddle, first base coach Jerry White and head trainer Rick McWane have been let go, while hitting coach Joe Vavra and bench coach Scott Ullger will oversee infield and outfield instruction, respectively.

one_eyed_jack
10-04-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.

AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
10-04-2012, 06:34 PM
With Bruno as our hitting coach this lineup will have "BOP" in it next year. He worked extremely well with Parmelee and Plouffe, great move. I wish we could and hope we will get Rick Anderson out of here.

SpiritofVodkaDave
10-04-2012, 06:36 PM
And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.
I could see this being a "you guys have one more year or so to turn this around" and by turn it around, they don't nessicarly need to win 90 games, but they need to show a vast improvement over the last two years. They are viewing Anderson and Gardy's accomplishments as a whole, not just two seasons.

Make no mistake about it, this wasn't on Gardy and Anderson this year anyways, that starting rotation was an embarrassment there isn't a coach alive that could take a bunch of AAA burnouts and turn them into a legit rotation. Most people said they needed some new blood in, well, they just brought in three new coaches to the staff who will be working with these players every day, that is quite a bit of new blood IMO.

Also as mentioned above, they did fire the GM last year, I understand fans being frustrated, but if you just go and fire everyone every-time a bad season happens you end up in a mess.

SpiritofVodkaDave
10-04-2012, 06:38 PM
With Bruno as our hitting coach this lineup will have "BOP" in it next year. He worked extremely well with Parmelee and Plouffe, great move. I wish we could and hope we will get Rick Anderson out of here.

How exactly is Anderson the problem?

Also I think Bruno should be given some credit for Revere as well. Did anyone hear if Molitor is joining the staff? That would be awesome.

PseudoSABR
10-04-2012, 06:45 PM
LVEN3's updated post states that Rick McWane, Rick Stelmaszek, Steve Liddle, and Jerry White have been let go, and Vavra and Ullger will be overseeing infield and outfield instruction, respectively.These are substantial changes. I wonder how the Twins offseason plan shapes up given that Gardy and Andy are one year deals.

jokin
10-04-2012, 06:47 PM
And they leave in place Gardenhire and Anderson.

I do not see how you can change everything except those 2 and leave them in place. That is insane.
I could see this being a "you guys have one more year or so to turn this around" and by turn it around, they don't nessicarly need to win 90 games, but they need to show a vast improvement over the last two years. They are viewing Anderson and Gardy's accomplishments as a whole, not just two seasons.

Make no mistake about it, this wasn't on Gardy and Anderson this year anyways, that starting rotation was an embarrassment there isn't a coach alive that could take a bunch of AAA burnouts and turn them into a legit rotation. Most people said they needed some new blood in, well, they just brought in three new coaches to the staff who will be working with these players every day, that is quite a bit of new blood IMO.

Also as mentioned above, they did fire the GM last year, I understand fans being frustrated, but if you just go and fire everyone every-time a bad season happens you end up in a mess.

How about 2 bad seasons? How many managers/pitching coaches keep their jobs after being the worst team in the league for two straight years?

On the bright side, with the Astros joining the AL next year, Ryan/Gardy/Anderson can falsely claim "Improvement" in 2013- by illicitly inflating their win total to 70+ and NOT being the worst team in the league- --

so there is that....

Jim Crikket
10-04-2012, 06:49 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.

A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.

Jim Crikket
10-04-2012, 06:54 PM
Frankly, the more I think about today's news, the more I wonder if the Twins haven't essentially told Gardenhire that 2013 will be his final year as manager, win lose or draw. They're allowing him to keep his closest friends on staff for his final year, but cleared room to install the core of eventual successors, as well.

spideyo
10-04-2012, 06:58 PM
Maybe they can make Bobby Valentine the new 3b coach...

jokin
10-04-2012, 06:59 PM
LVEN3's updated post states that Rick McWane, Rick Stelmaszek, Steve Liddle, and Jerry White have been let go, and Vavra and Ullger will be overseeing infield and outfield instruction, respectively.These are substantial changes. I wonder how the Twins offseason plan shapes up given that Gardy and Andy are one year deals.

If Ryan/Pohlad aren't waiting to see who becomes available in the managerial/pitching coach MLB depth pools (Washington/Scoscia,etc) before making a further commitment to Gardenhire/Anderson, they are being derelict in their duties and exposing more of the penny-wise/pound foolish thinking that has gotten them in the current mess they find themselves mired in.

drjim
10-04-2012, 07:01 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.

A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.

I agree with this. This talk of the Twins only bringing in insiders is not exactly true. The team is going to have a philosophy, it makes sense to bring people in for a year or two in lower level positions to learn that philosophy before promoting them to higher positions. Many successful businesses outside of baseball follow this model.

I will also add that I really like Terry Ryan and I am glad that he is the general manager. Every statement that he makes is spot on and aside from the Marquis signing he has been very solid in his decision making. He is not flashy but conservative and patient and I appreciate that, it bodes well for long term success.

jokin
10-04-2012, 07:02 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.

Smells like club "paralysis" to me...;)

Thrylos
10-04-2012, 07:02 PM
A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.

Agreed. The writing was on the wall when the Twins brought Glynn into the organization. I suspect that he will be the 3B coach, since in addition to manager, he was Rochester's 3B coach. With Bruno the hitting coach and Cuellar the BP coach it will be interesting to see where Molitor fits (probably bench) and who will be the 1B coach.

A couple of thoughts:

- The Twins are set up to #FireGardyNAndy in May of 2013 if needed (i.e. if the team sucks again) and have a full succession plan in the bigs in place
- That succession plan would be very interesting, i.e. who will have the upper hand, Molitor or Glynn.
- On times that a team is not promoting players on the 40 man roster in September to save $, giving MLB paychecks to Scotty and Vavry as "IF and OF instructors", gives the wrong message. Maybe they will be interviewing for one of the many openings out there this off-season.

jokin
10-04-2012, 07:09 PM
A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.

Agreed. The writing was on the wall when the Twins brought Glynn into the organization. I suspect that he will be the 3B coach, since in addition to manager, he was Rochester's 3B coach. With Bruno the hitting coach and Cuellar the BP coach it will be interesting to see where Molitor fits (probably bench) and who will be the 1B coach.

A couple of thoughts:

- The Twins are set up to #FireGardyNAndy in May of 2013 if needed (i.e. if the team sucks again) and have a full succession plan in the bigs in place
- That succession plan would be very interesting, i.e. who will have the upper hand, Molitor or Glynn.
- On times that a team is not promoting players on the 40 man roster in September to save $, giving MLB paychecks to Scotty and Vavry as "IF and OF instructors", gives the wrong message. Maybe they will be interviewing for one of the many openings out there this off-season.

Is Molitor's hiring a done deal?

JB_Iowa
10-04-2012, 07:16 PM
And for that matter, as long as McWane is the only person in the front office who loses his job, the front offices hasn't done so either.

You do realize the general manager was fired less than a year ago right?

I fully realize that Bill Smith was fired last fall. I also believe that the primary reason he was fired was because he and Jim Pohlad did not see eye-to-eye on payroll NOT because of the team's record. (Per the Star-Tribune: "There's no question I said [Smith's job was safe], and when I said it, I meant it," Pohlad said Monday. "But we did say at the time that we want to get better in 2012, and we'll see what the plan is. And like we've said, the plan that was proposed, we were on different pages.")

But what I also know is that Smith was an administrator-type who relied on the people around him in the decision-making process. And yet, we've seen no changes in the front office staff other than today's firing of McWane. I also know that Smith was re-hired to a different position within the organization.

I do see the firing of McWane as more substantial than that of the 3 coaches and maybe we'll see some additional changes in the front office before the fall is over. But for now, it seems to me that they continue to tinker on the edges rather than get to the heart of responsibility.

spideyo
10-04-2012, 07:25 PM
Remember guys, this is only the first day after the season, and they haven't made any official announcements regarding who is taking over these new vacancies. It has been the assumption that the Rochestor guys will be moving up, but we might be wrong. I doubt anyone was expecting Stelmazek to be cut loose. Terry Ryan has been around a long time but that doesn't mean he can't surprise us.

Thrylos
10-04-2012, 07:43 PM
Remember guys, this is only the first day after the season, and they haven't made any official announcements regarding who is taking over these new vacancies. It has been the assumption that the Rochestor guys will be moving up, but we might be wrong. I doubt anyone was expecting Stelmazek to be cut loose. Terry Ryan has been around a long time but that doesn't mean he can't surprise us.

There will be announcements in the press conference tomorrow. The only question mark is 1B/bench

mike wants wins
10-04-2012, 07:54 PM
Why can't they just let the guys go, rather than retain them? I mean, if you are going to make a change, make a change. Organizational change management is very clear on this, changes where you keep the old stuff/people around are less effective. This looks like

Ryan: "time to make changes"
Gardy: "no way"
Ryan: "yes, we are letting people go"
Gardy: "well, keep them around some"

This looks just half way to me.

And, all the minor league people running the system still have jobs, right? How many impact players have come up the last 5 years? Impact, not mediocre, impact?

Thrylos
10-04-2012, 08:04 PM
Why can't they just let the guys go, rather than retain them? I mean, if you are going to make a change, make a change. Organizational change management is very clear on this, changes where you keep the old stuff/people around are less effective. This looks like

Ryan: "time to make changes"
Gardy: "no way"
Ryan: "yes, we are letting people go"
Gardy: "well, keep them around some"

This looks just half way to me.

And, all the minor league people running the system still have jobs, right? How many impact players have come up the last 5 years? Impact, not mediocre, impact?

agreed.

the other thing I hear in defense to Andy is that "he did not have the pitchers to work with". If that is true, then it is Ryan's fault. So one or the other has to go.

Pius Jefferson
10-04-2012, 08:35 PM
It's a secondary coaching position but any names being thrown out for the 1st base coach?

Thrylos
10-04-2012, 08:51 PM
It's a secondary coaching position but any names being thrown out for the 1st base coach?

Toby

beckmt
10-04-2012, 09:17 PM
I think Gardy and Andy will have to show improvement next year to be retained, and I also feel that the succession plan is in place if TR decides to make a change in midseason(though he may check first to see if TK would do a part of a year). This is a start as the Twins are not showing improvement in fundamentals. This probably is as galling to TR as anything and is the reason for the shakeup in Rochester this year.
Will see tomorrow what the total shakeup is, but this looks like it has been planned for a time

Winston Smith
10-04-2012, 10:31 PM
Wonder where the brain trust for Twins Daily has been all day? Odd they would be silent on all this.

one_eyed_jack
10-04-2012, 10:31 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this "shake up". I would rather have either kept the entire crew together for one more win-or-else year or completely cleaned house and started fresh. But this seems like a lame half-measure where they're throwing a few guys under the bus just so they can say they did something.

The other thing is I keep reading about how this paves the way for guys to be brought from Rochester. Do we have to fill every opening by promoting from within? Things have gone stale in this organization, it's a situation that begs for an infusion of new ideas from someone from the outside. Instead we're going to move people up just because it's their turn. Great.

And if Gardy and Andy go next year, I'm sure they'll be replaced from within as well.

A couple of points I'd make in response: Gene Glynn was only added to the organization 1 year ago. Tom Brunansky has only been back with the organization for what? 2-3 years (hired July 2010). Bobby Cuellar, while he did spend time in various coaching capacities with the Twins over the years, has also spent time in a number of other organizations, so he's hardly a Twins organization "lifer". If these three are indeed added to the Big League club, I don't see it as your typical "inside the organization" promotions.

Also, while it may be true that Gardy, Andy, Ullger and Vavra remain in Big League positions, I don't think there's any doubt that with Glynn, Cuellar and Bruno, Terry Ryan would be putting in place a potential core of successors to Gardy and his gang. If the 2013 season starts off with another crappy April, I wouldn't assume the holdovers keep their jobs all the way through 2013.

Paul Molitor is on record saying he'd be interested in a coaching spot, too, if the Twins want to talk to him about it. Add him to the Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno trio and that would be sending a clear shot across the bow at Gardenhire.

---All good and fair points. But I guess I was hoping for something a little bolder after 2 putrid seasons. If it's already been decided that Glynn, Cuellar, Bruno and Molitor are the successors to Gardy, Andy, Vavra and Ulger then just make the damn move. Don't drag it out by repurposing Vavra and Ulger and making Gardy a lame duck.

Willihammer
10-04-2012, 10:42 PM
No way Gardy gets fired midseason even if they start poorly again. That's not this FO's MO. In fact, I suspect that shortly before the meeting w/ season ticket holders, Gardy was already informed of the decision, and told it was strictly an appeasement style PR move to transition to Glynn/Cuellar/Bruno for 2014. Besides, why would the FO put any kind of moratorium on the guy who's already the longest tenured active manager in baseball. From a professional perspective, Gardy would just as soon walk now and take one of the 4-5 open Manager jobs this winter. Also a moratorium, implied or explicit, would only introduce the potential for a split clubhouse a la 2012 Red Sux and unnecessary drama. Nobody wants that. Instead, being clear about the plan align's everyone's interest in making a strong showing in 2013.

If you think about it, this is about as smoothly as an organization can go about regime change. I o nly hope that Glynn will bring fresh, outsider thinking even if he is an internal guy.