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Coach J
09-10-2012, 07:44 PM
Alright guys, here is the question. What player in the Twins organization would bring back the biggest haul? Im curious to see some of the answers here because I am stuck. There seems to be an obvious answer but now I am not sure. If you just want to put a name of Twins player that is cool, or even what you might think they could bring back. Lets hear it..

TheLeviathan
09-10-2012, 07:55 PM
It was Willingham....we missed the boat on that one. As usual.

Riverbrian
09-10-2012, 08:00 PM
I still think its Span. If not Span... You have to take the opposite approach and say Sano.

beckmt
09-10-2012, 08:19 PM
I believe it would be Willingham (no contest). He is also the most valueable to the Twins as their main right handed power hitter. He alone has made the lineup more dangerous, by splitting up Mauer and Morneau so a lefty specialist has much less affect on the Twins. This would make him the hardest piece to replace and why TR wanted the most for him.

Coach J
09-10-2012, 08:37 PM
Willingham is a great answer. I still think Joe Mauer has alot of value especially if the Twins were to help out a team with his salary. I think Glen Perkins would also bring back a very very quality player. Lefthanded reliever that throws 95 and is signed for a reasonable salary over the next several years.. pretty enticing. Look at what the A's got for Andrew Bailey! I think Perk is just as good if not better. Or do I need to remind everyone what the Nationals got for their closer at the deadline a few years ago.....:cry:

Riverbrian
09-10-2012, 08:39 PM
Willingham is a great answer. I still think Joe Mauer has alot of value especially if the Twins were to help out a team with his salary. I think Glen Perkins would also bring back a very very quality player. Lefthanded reliever that throws 95 and is signed for a reasonable salary over the next several years.. pretty enticing. Look at what the A's got for Andrew Bailey! I think Perk is just as good if not better. Or do I need to remind everyone what the Nationals got for their closer at the deadline a few years ago.....:cry:

If the Twins can add contract relief to the equation... It's Mauer without question.

gunnarthor
09-10-2012, 08:44 PM
Willingham in the majors and (realistically) Hicks/Arcia in the minors. (Don't see Sano being put on the market but I could see one of those two being moved).

drjim
09-10-2012, 08:58 PM
I would say Ben Revere. Young, cheap, controllable, elite up the middle defender and developing into a legit leadoff guy.

Shane Wahl
09-10-2012, 09:13 PM
1. Mauer
2. Sano
3. Willingham
4. Morneau
5. Hicks
6. Span
7. Revere
8. Arcia
9. Buxton
10. Parmelee/Rosario

Note not a pitcher in the bunch, though Berrios would be soon.

Brock Beauchamp
09-10-2012, 09:45 PM
And Gibson.

Shane Wahl
09-10-2012, 09:59 PM
And Gibson.

Yes, hopefully he joins that list after bouncing back in 2013 . . . .

I almost see it as pointless to include pitchers in any kind of trade talk, unless it involves a MR type.

Brock Beauchamp
09-10-2012, 10:06 PM
Yeah, I think there's a zero chance of the Twins trading away a young pitcher. No real point in even discussing it.

The Greatest Poster Alive
09-10-2012, 10:10 PM
It was Willingham....we missed the boat on that one. As usual.

Yeah... by not trading a guy just a few months into his deal we missed the boat. How do you expect to convince guys to sign here long-term without NTC's if you trade them away at the midpoint of the first year of a multi year deal?

Willingham's value hasn't plummeted... and could still be traded in the future.

Twins Twerp
09-10-2012, 10:39 PM
Sano, Hicks, and Arciaare not in the conversation. We are a bottom 5 team. Those guys are the guys that will get us out of the cellar. I think the conversion should be abou the guys that will get us prospects back. The hammers value is diminishing as his age and lack of defense hurt. Span's value has taken a hit as he has been injury prone for 2 years now. He will be the guy to go, but Reverre has better value to a team. He is not a leadoff man as he walks far too little. He will be a good number 2 hitter. I see him as the two and hopefully Hicks keeps progressing as a textbook leadoff guy who has a high OBP and can swipe some bases here and there. Also, Perkins and Burton have some good value as hard throwing guys at the back of a bullpen. Mornie, if we eat some of that salary next season, may have some value to a team as a middle of the order basher.

Mauer really has little value beause that contract is restricted to 3 maybe 4 teams in the majors. His value is in the number of fans that he brings in to Target field and we NEED him if we want to keep attendance over 40 grand a game.

SpantheMan
09-10-2012, 11:28 PM
1. Mauer
2. Sano
3. Willingham
4. Morneau
5. Hicks
6. Span
7. Revere
8. Arcia
9. Buxton
10. Parmelee/Rosario

Note not a pitcher in the bunch, though Berrios would be soon.
Morneau is definitely not higher than most of those guys. 1yr/14 mil is not good value even if he returns to elite form. 3 years of span or 5 years of revere for very cheap is way more valuable. The same could be argued for the 6-10 guys

joeboo_22
09-11-2012, 12:02 AM
Span and Willingham because of production in relation to contract. Sano, Hicks Arcia, because of prospect status. Mauer (if salary compensation is included)

Rosterman
09-11-2012, 12:15 AM
Willingham...decent contract.
Doumit...has shown that he can catch and continues to hit.
Mauer will always be in demand but basically unaffordable.
Morneau...teams are going to wish they had overpayed for him in July.
Perkins...has a reasonable contract and can be a lefty or possible closer.
Revere is over Span right now. Span's value is when a team is desparate for a replacement player. Twins missed it not trading him in July.
Deduno has come out of nowhere...but would have to be packaged with, say, a Plouffe or Parmelee.

jm3319
09-11-2012, 12:17 AM
How about our whole front office? The "haul" would be ridding the team of this mess (and dumping it on a different team) and bringing in fresh blood that the organization desperately needs. Probably more valuable than anything the Twins can acquire via trade.

(I'm only half kidding...which means I'm also half serious)

old nurse
09-11-2012, 12:37 AM
No Twin player on the major league roster will get you a "haul". Overpriced or aging players do not get you a haul. Above average outfielders do not get you a haul. At best in a straight up trade any Twin player will get you a b- prospect. If you are paying part of the contract, then you are buying the prospect.

Top Gun
09-11-2012, 02:26 AM
Revere no doubt about!

Shane Wahl
09-11-2012, 12:54 PM
Morneau trade target one: Boston Red Sox

Potential players in return (MLB new prospect rank): 5. RHP Allen Webster: ETA 2013 and 10. 3B Garin Cecchini, ETA: 2014. (with possible Anthony Swarzak throw-in)

Boston is not going to be comfortable with James Loney, and who knows about David Ortiz. While Boston is all over the place with their pitching, I would expect them to sign one top SP in the offseason, so Webster is more expendable. Cecchini is promising, but blocked.

twinswon1991
09-11-2012, 02:02 PM
Mauer has no trade value as evidenced by zero waiver claims. A singles hitting DH owed 100 mil will net you at best a Vernon Wells contract in return. Sadly, Blacky is just as likely as Mauer to net a prospect.

Shane Wahl
09-11-2012, 02:37 PM
Mauer has no trade value as evidenced by zero waiver claims. A singles hitting DH owed 100 mil will net you at best a Vernon Wells contract in return. Sadly, Blacky is just as likely as Mauer to net a prospect.

The vitriol never stops with you toward Mauer, does it? Zero waiver claims has NOTHING to do with whether or not a trade would happen. If you don't understand that you know nothing about revocable waivers.

29 doubles, 3 triples, and 9 homers this year so far. .860 OPS.

68 games catching, 27 at 1B, and 35 at DH this year.

twinswon1991
09-11-2012, 03:36 PM
You dont understand waivers. If anyone thought it was a fair contract they would claim and hope the Twins outright release him for free. No one wanted to chance that thus Mauer has zero trade value.

Mauer is a great hitter but a part time catcher making huge dollars has no trade value.

DAM DC Twins Fans
09-11-2012, 03:56 PM
No current Twin has much trade value. Mauer has way too big a contract. Morneau has a one year ($14 mill) big contract and a concussion history (one more and he will retire like Koskie), Span has proven to be injury prone, Revere may be the best but doesnt walk and has poor arm, Willingham is a DH playing LF, Doumit has injury history (though not this year), Plouffe may have value if he has another year like this...

The biggest trade value probably go to Sano and Hicks--but you dont trade your best projects (also true for Parmalee).

Shane Wahl
09-11-2012, 03:59 PM
No. No one is stupid enough to believe that the Twins would "outright release him for free." It would have been a COMPLETE waste of time for any team to bother and they ALL knew that.

Just about the whole roster is put on revocable waivers to muddle things up and disguise true trade interests.

Yikes.

You are just wrong about Mauer's trade value. It's 6/$138 million remaining, correct? Teams often sign players to such deals knowing that the latter half to 1/3 of the contract is going to be dubious. The point is that those teams want to win and win every year.

The Red Sox would throw a lot to get Mauer, for instance. They have several shortstops and pitchers in the system, and I think two of their top 10 prospects are actually catchers. I could see four top 15 Boston prospects coming quite easily.

It would still be a mistake for the Twins to do it (unless they were unloading . . . everybody), but to deny this reality is quite strange.

twinswon1991
09-11-2012, 04:13 PM
No. No one is stupid enough to believe that the Twins would "outright release him for free." It would have been a COMPLETE waste of time for any team to bother and they ALL knew that.

Just about the whole roster is put on revocable waivers to muddle things up and disguise true trade interests.

Yikes.

You are just wrong about Mauer's trade value. It's 6/$138 million remaining, correct? Teams often sign players to such deals knowing that the latter half to 1/3 of the contract is going to be dubious. The point is that those teams want to win and win every year.

The Red Sox would throw a lot to get Mauer, for instance. They have several shortstops and pitchers in the system, and I think two of their top 10 prospects are actually catchers. I could see four top 15 Boston prospects coming quite easily.

It would still be a mistake for the Twins to do it (unless they were unloading . . . everybody), but to deny this reality is quite strange.

I want what this guy is smoking if he thinks any team would take Mauers contract AND give up a prospect!!!

TheLeviathan
09-11-2012, 04:19 PM
Yeah... by not trading a guy just a few months into his deal we missed the boat. How do you expect to convince guys to sign here long-term without NTC's if you trade them away at the midpoint of the first year of a multi year deal?

Willingham's value hasn't plummeted... and could still be traded in the future.

Selling high is selling high. Players follow money - you can still lure free agents. Trading Hammer wasn't exactly going to shutter the windows in the offseason.

And a 33 year old on a career year is a threat to plummet in value at any point. Hell, look how much you could argue Span's value plummeted in just the last year.

Shane Wahl
09-11-2012, 04:29 PM
No. No one is stupid enough to believe that the Twins would "outright release him for free." It would have been a COMPLETE waste of time for any team to bother and they ALL knew that.

Just about the whole roster is put on revocable waivers to muddle things up and disguise true trade interests.

Yikes.

You are just wrong about Mauer's trade value. It's 6/$138 million remaining, correct? Teams often sign players to such deals knowing that the latter half to 1/3 of the contract is going to be dubious. The point is that those teams want to win and win every year.

The Red Sox would throw a lot to get Mauer, for instance. They have several shortstops and pitchers in the system, and I think two of their top 10 prospects are actually catchers. I could see four top 15 Boston prospects coming quite easily.

It would still be a mistake for the Twins to do it (unless they were unloading . . . everybody), but to deny this reality is quite strange.

I want what this guy is smoking if he thinks any team would take Mauers contract AND give up a prospect!!!

Were the reasons I gave you not adequate? Especially with a team like Boston? The team that just unloaded a bunch of money in Crawford, Beckett, and Gonzalez? The team that is likely not going to pay David Ortiz $12 million or whatever next year. The team that has Jarrod Saltalamacchia (sp?) to catch the rest of the games that Mauer doesn't? The team that plays in a stadium that would likely produce a significant increase in Mauer's offensive production? 15-20 homers and 40 doubles would not be out of the question with that short right field and that Green Monster.

Do you really think that if Mauer were a free agent that the Red Sox wouldn't pay him $138 million over 6 years? Without that option, trading from prospect depth isn't a huge extra burden.

The Red Sox are not the Twins. The expectation there is to win the World Series each year.

Shane Wahl
09-11-2012, 04:39 PM
By the way, it is something like $57 million dumped by the Red Sox between Gonzalez, Crawford, and Beckett for the next 2 years, and $41+ million for Gonzalez and Crawford for the next 5 or six years.

Adding $23 million would still allow them to spend mightily.

twinswon1991
09-11-2012, 04:41 PM
The Sawks will trade for Mauer if the Twins pick up 50 mil of hi salary. Your justification is that they will do a insane Hershal Walker deal because they have resources. Shoot your trade proposal via twittet to any nonTwins homer and let me know when they stop laughing.

Mauers contract is a major albatross going forward eventhough he earned his salary this year.

JB_Iowa
09-11-2012, 04:53 PM
I don't know why anyone even talks about Mauer's trade value.

Mauer has to have more value in Minnesota than he could possibly have in any other market. There is just no way to underestimate the value of a clean-cut player who signed with his hometown team AND may possibly have a HOF career. If he does end up in the HOF, the long-term value of that to the franchise should not be overlooked. He simply couldn't have the same impact in another city by changing in the midst of his career.

To me, when you are talking about Mauer and the Minnesota Twins, you are talking about a long-term strategy from both sides to maximize his value not only during his playing days but after he has retired as well.

Given that I see Mauer as significantly more valuable in Minnesota than anywhere else, I can't see ANY team willing to pay enough to give the Twins a return.

Riverbrian
09-11-2012, 06:23 PM
No. No one is stupid enough to believe that the Twins would "outright release him for free." It would have been a COMPLETE waste of time for any team to bother and they ALL knew that.

Just about the whole roster is put on revocable waivers to muddle things up and disguise true trade interests.

Yikes.

You are just wrong about Mauer's trade value. It's 6/$138 million remaining, correct? Teams often sign players to such deals knowing that the latter half to 1/3 of the contract is going to be dubious. The point is that those teams want to win and win every year.

The Red Sox would throw a lot to get Mauer, for instance. They have several shortstops and pitchers in the system, and I think two of their top 10 prospects are actually catchers. I could see four top 15 Boston prospects coming quite easily.

It would still be a mistake for the Twins to do it (unless they were unloading . . . everybody), but to deny this reality is quite strange.

I want what this guy is smoking if he thinks any team would take Mauers contract AND give up a prospect!!!

Im smoking what's he's smoking. I don't know about 4 prospects but the contract wouldn't be a deal breaker for some teams. I assume... I've only negotiated with baseball GM's in my past life.

old nurse
09-11-2012, 07:56 PM
By the way, it is something like $57 million dumped by the Red Sox between Gonzalez, Crawford, and Beckett for the next 2 years, and $41+ million for Gonzalez and Crawford for the next 5 or six years.

Adding $23 million would still allow them to spend mightily.

The Red Sox are more likely to shop for players in their fifth or sixth year that the small market teams can't afford.. They will hope for better success than they did with Gonzales.
A contract like Mauer's would only make sense if was the final piece to a championship. If Mauer wanted to waive a no trade contract it would not be to a team in Boston's current situation.

kab21
09-11-2012, 10:23 PM
out of the list of tradeable players (eliminating mauer, Hicks, Arcia, Sano, etc...).

Willingham - I mentioned trading him straight up for James Shields. Seems like a lateral vet for vet, strength/weakness trade. It would be great to trade Willingham for a top pitching prospect but teams are hoarding prospects now more than ever.

Perkins - he's actually become really good but I'm not sure this team can trade him now. It wasn't that long ago that this team had nothing in the bullpen.

Revere - I think GM's are going to view him as a .300 hitter that can't walk or hit for power. Might as well keep him if you're not getting something really good back.

Span - he's a really good centerfielder but he's missed to many games to have a lot of value right now. The Twins are better off keeping him until the deadline or longer and for once have a good OF defense.

Burton - might get you an intriguing lower level prospect (think about a guy like Goodrum) but there isn't much in the pen right now.

Morneau - you might be able to get an intriguing lower level prospect (like Goodrum) if you picked up half of the salary. You definitely aren't getting much at the MLB level.

70charger
09-11-2012, 10:24 PM
Guys, you're CLEARLY feeding a troll.

old nurse
09-11-2012, 10:38 PM
Guys, you're CLEARLY feeding a troll.

I think they guy really thinks there are Twins players that would net mutiple B prospects. I think he was trying to find people that think like him.

Shane Wahl
09-12-2012, 01:23 AM
By the way, it is something like $57 million dumped by the Red Sox between Gonzalez, Crawford, and Beckett for the next 2 years, and $41+ million for Gonzalez and Crawford for the next 5 or six years.

Adding $23 million would still allow them to spend mightily.

The Red Sox are more likely to shop for players in their fifth or sixth year that the small market teams can't afford.. They will hope for better success than they did with Gonzales.
A contract like Mauer's would only make sense if was the final piece to a championship. If Mauer wanted to waive a no trade contract it would not be to a team in Boston's current situation.

Mauer waiving the clause has nothing to do with the the question. I view it as moderately insane to think that Boston wouldn't make such a trade. The comparables in my scenario are Hendriks, Herrmann, Goodrum, and Boyd or Harrison or someone. That Boston would more likely pursue other options isn't the point either (that pursuit has most to do with the fact that Twins will never trade Mauer). Boston has dumped a BUNCH of money and Mauer's contract would be only about 1/3 of the amount that they will want to spend.