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View Full Version : Article: Twins Promote Eduardo Escobar and Luis Perdomo as September Callups



John Bonnes
09-03-2012, 03:13 PM
You can view the page at http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.php?1002-Twins-Promote-Eduardo-Escobar-and-Luis-Perdomo-as-September-Callups

Rosterman
09-03-2012, 03:17 PM
I think the Twins only have one open spot on the 40-man, unless they do something with Capps. Valezquez and Walters took two of the three. Originally thought the Twins might be grabbing someone cut before the end of August. But there also will be some 40-man cuts in the next few days as teams add non-rosters players as September callups.

Still surprised that we aren't getting Slama. And when do they expect to get a looksee at Guerra. Really, man, really...that should be a given. Manship, you know. Dozier, needs a rest and you know. I would've awarded Arcia!

Bark's Lounge
09-03-2012, 03:25 PM
That is sort of a bumber. It would have been fun to see Arcia or Hicks get the call, but I get it and it is important to play Parmelee everyday this September - I couldn't see Hicks or Arcia playing too much. Slama getting snubbed is the real tragedy of this announcement.

Seth Stohs
09-03-2012, 03:32 PM
Slama not beimg promoted is a joke! Likely the Twins want a full look at Florimon. Escobar could play 2nd or 3rd . I don't think he'll play much SS.

joeboo_22
09-03-2012, 03:43 PM
I just don't really get the call-ups. I guess I understand that Dozier hasn't really deserved a call-up but at the same time I think he needs to be called up. Slama? really.

Why don't they just 60 man DL Capps? Same with Span, this well they might be ready late in the year is just a joke.

For a pitching staff that very few really deserve a pass and a free ride into next year, I thought they could have called up a few more names to look at.

Mr. Ed
09-03-2012, 04:07 PM
Dozier was given the Death Mark for arguing about the play w/Gardy and saying he was right in public.

Not bringing up Slama for a look is unintelligent.

Arcia would only confuse matters if he was called up and hit well.

TwinsMusings
09-03-2012, 04:25 PM
Not bringing up Slama is more disappointing than surprising to me. I would like to have seen him get one more chance at the big league level, but he is not on the 40-man roster - taken off last off-season - and for some reason the Twins do not see him as part of the future. His age (28) plus time on the DL again this summer may have something to do with it.

Highabove
09-03-2012, 04:35 PM
Escobar has really earned his call up from Rochester by hitting a putrid 224 with an OBP of .261
The Bill Smith Memorial Scholarship is alive and well.
Wait!!! I thought the Scholarship program had been canceled.

Bark's Lounge
09-03-2012, 04:41 PM
It appears the season long Slama situation erks just about everyone on this site.

I really don't know how one starts a petition or how to go about it, but it would be nice to see a petition drawn up demanding an in-depth answer from Terry Ryan on why this organization is sour on Slama and why they won't give him an extended chance to prove himself at the MLB level.

Sure, Ryan would not be legally bound to give an answer, but if there were enough angry and disenfranchised fans putting their name to the said petition, maybe it would put enough pressure on Ryan to give a worthwhile response - maybe his answer would quell Twins Fans disappointment? Who Knows... just thought I'd throw it out there.

Rick Niedermann
09-03-2012, 04:57 PM
All we are asking as dedicated Twins fans, is when a guy throws the ball like Slama has at every level and isn't given a chance on a LOUSY, LOUSY team, management needs to tell us why! I am so furious at Terry Ryan right now. I hope he takes the interim tag off and retires. This Pohlad run crew got there stadium, lied about payroll and now will not even reward a kid that has done terrific in the minors. What a sham...what a shame.

glennhl
09-03-2012, 05:00 PM
Manship is out of options for next year and I would have thought the Twins would want to give him a good chance as a starter. Manship has done a lot better as a starter than a reliever. Why? I'm thinking that he needs to pitch more often to be effective. And when he was a reliever with the Twins they hardly ever put him in on a regular basis. I think the Twins really messed up when they decided that Manship was going to be their next Matt Gurrier.

If you look at Jeff just as a starter with the Twins, he did very well in 2009 getting a very important win near the end of the season. He was pulled up and down in 2010 mainly as a reliever and never got much of a chance. He was hurt most of 2011, but when he was healthy was part of the no-hitter at Rochester that included 2 other pitchers. Then 2012, he again has gone up and down only as a reliever. His AAA numbers as a starter has been excellent this year. If he had started out the year as a starter in Rochester I'm betting he would be starting with the Twins right now.

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. I just don't think the Twins ever gave Manship a fair shake as a starter with the big club. I think the Twins missed out on this one.

PseudoSABR
09-03-2012, 05:03 PM
Are we even sure this is the extent of the players they will call up?

drjim
09-03-2012, 05:07 PM
I thought Slama and Guerra would get a look and don't understand why they felt the need to bring back Perdomo. Don't have a huge problem with any of the other (non)moves. Arcia and Hicks would have been fun, but realistically there wasn't a ton of at bats available for them. Despite his performance in AAA, don't have a huge problem giving Escobar a look, Dozier will get his chance again next spring.

drjim
09-03-2012, 05:08 PM
Are we even sure this is the extent of the players they will call up?

The local writers on Twitter basically said this was it.

J-Dog Dungan
09-03-2012, 05:12 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! What the heck is wrong with Slama that they won't call him up?

Now, with my anger vented, is there any chance the Twins still call Slama up?

Seth Stohs
09-03-2012, 05:15 PM
Rochester and New Britain are done. The Twins have said that this is it. Unless something crazy happens, this appears to be it.

The Twins don't owe me (or any of us) an explanation for not calling up Slama, but I think we deserve one, and at the very least Slama deserves one.

I know many disagree, but I'm on board with glennhl regarding Manship. As he is out of options next year, I thought giving him some starts in September would be good. He hasn't been given an opportunity to start in over 2 years, and when he's been up with the Twins, he's rarely pitched.

Back to Slama... he can't even become a free agent until after NEXT season. In other words, he has to put up with this stuff for another year.

On Dozier, we all questioned the timing of his demotion. Would three weeks be enough time to work through his struggles? Of course not. But apparently 3 weeks was enough time for the Twins to judge.

The Twins have a lot of tough 40 man roster spots that have to be figured out over the next 3-4 weeks. The guys that are up are the guys they need to evaluate. They must already know what they think about Dozier, Slama, Manship and any of the others that were not promoted.

Thrylos
09-03-2012, 05:15 PM
Are we even sure this is the extent of the players they will call up?

That's what Ryan said.

The Slama situation is maddening. And it is nothing new. He was not even invited to the MLB ST (De Vries too) while pretty much all the MiLB FAs they signed were invited. Just surreal. I hope that the Twins will not regret that at some point.

As far as Manship goes, he has pitched 85.2 innings in the majors over 4 years in the tune of 6.20 ERA and 1.623 WHIP. That is a lot of innings. And he has pitched worse than Blackburn. Actually I am glad that he is not taking innings from other guys this September. Will be a free agent this winter and I am sure that Mr Boras will find him a nice home. (No way the Twins will add him to the 25-man roster - he is out of options)

Unfortunately I think that something might be wrong with Guerra. Does not make sense to not call him up, but the last month or so has been struggling.

Highabove
09-03-2012, 05:21 PM
Let's imagine the day, Slama comes into Target Field with another Team and mows down the side.
That day may come. Next Winter, Anthony Slama will be a free Man.

adjacent
09-03-2012, 05:31 PM
All I can say is that they removed much of my motivation to keep watching the games in September. And looking at the rest of the comments, it seems that I am not alone. Really, the team has been bad the whole year, is playing for nothing right now, why are you gonna watch other that looking at prospects that can give you any hope? No Slama? No Arcia? Come on!

joeboo_22
09-03-2012, 05:42 PM
Dozier- The Twins threw him under the bus, after a play where many people said he made the right move, he hadn't been hitting for a while, his defense had been so-so, but when he made a play they didn't like, they threw him under the bus and basically said he'd have to prove he deserved. so whatever, I'll live with this, I think him being called up would help his development but whatever.

The problem I have is there are pitchers who are either rule 5 eligible or out of options in AAA, and the Twins don't really care. Call up Manship and have him start 2-3 games, call up Guerra, he is out of options. I thought Thielbar should have been called up but being selected to the Ariz Fall League probably hurt his chances.

As far as Slama, again as I have previously stated, I am not a big fan of his, I don't think he will become a MLB closer, but at the same time even an idiot would have to admit he warrants a September call-up on a last place team.

As far as Hicks and Arcia, unless they were going to give them AB's I agree with the decision, I just hope next year if they are ready they will get the call.

JP3700
09-03-2012, 05:43 PM
Let's imagine the day, Slama comes into Target Field with another Team and mows down the side.
That day may come. Next Winter, Anthony Slama will be a free Man.

I think he will be a free man sooner than next winter. There is a good chance someone will rule 5 him after the season he had and he'll be in a major league bullpen next year. Tampa might take a shot at him, they'll need bullpen arms next year.

Highabove
09-03-2012, 05:48 PM
FREE ANTHONY NOW !!!!


https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrbn60j-ghO9kr0qam7Ay-4IohvRzTuk_QM2wQUWFxeB5s9l-RlQ

Thrylos
09-03-2012, 05:52 PM
As far as Slama, again as I have previously stated, I am not a big fan of his, I don't think he will become a MLB closer, but at the same time even an idiot would have to admit he warrants a September call-up on a last place team..

Are you insinuating anything about Ryan and GardyNAndy?

Seth Stohs
09-03-2012, 05:56 PM
[QUOTE=joeboo_22;51554As far as Slama, again as I have previously stated, I am not a big fan of his, I don't think he will become a MLB closer, but at the same time even an idiot would have to admit he warrants a September call-up on a last place team..[/QUOTE]

I don't think any of us think that Slama will be a big league closer. His stuff has been questioned. His control is questionable. There are plenty of reasons not to believe he'll be great. However, at least my point is that, until big league hitters show it, he should at least be given a shot! Not 7 innings over 2 seasons of time, but a legit opportunity. We've seen the Twins give lots of guys with worse control an opportunity this year and last. He just deserves the chance.

lecroy24fan
09-03-2012, 06:23 PM
Back to Slama... he can't even become a free agent until after NEXT season. In other words, he has to put up with this stuff for another year.
Can you explain this a little more? This is his sixth season of pro ball, so i thought he would be a six year FA.

righty8383
09-03-2012, 06:44 PM
I was a little surprised that Slama was not picked up in the rule 5 draft last year. I hope he gets picked this year so he can get the chance he deserves. I would have liked to see Hicks and/or Arcia but I'm not overly upset about that decision.

righty8383
09-03-2012, 06:51 PM
Here is a direct qoute form TR about September call ups. This is from an article by Rhett Bolinger published August 27...


The types of guys we're talking about are guys who have earned the promotion from what they've done at Triple-A or Double-A.

I had a feeling Ryan was flat out lying when he said this. Now I KNOW he was lying. Unless someone can explain to me how Eduardo Escobar has earned a call up and Anthony Slama and Oswaldo Arcia haven't. I just cannot stand TR anymore!

Mr. Ed
09-03-2012, 07:35 PM
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=RF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=542455

Those are the final #'s on Arcia.

What would it harm to have the kid called up? REALLY??

And Perdomo??? What does he have to prove? That he can walk guys and be ineffective? Sheesh.

Shane Wahl
09-03-2012, 07:51 PM
For real, is my crazy idea about the Twins actually not wanting to give Slama a try in case he makes them look like fools REALLY that crazy now?

Jim H
09-03-2012, 08:08 PM
The problem with all of this noise about Slama and other call ups is we really don't know who deserves what or what the thinking is behind the call ups that are made. Maybe, for example, Perdomo is being called up as a last look. They might love his arm and stuff, just want to see if he can find that all important control.(Sort of like Deduno did).

There is at least some possibility that Slama hasn't completely recovered from the injuries that disabled him and the Twins don't want him to risk reinjuring himself. There are countless possible reasons for not calling him up, beyond the fact that he is not a top prospect. The problem with this blather is none of us really know.

I suppose he could be added to the 40 man this winter, lost in the rule 5 draft or just released. The most likely scenario is that he will remain with the Twins, get a good look in the spring and if he remains healthy and effective will at some point get another big league chance. I think the Twins know what they have in him, which is perhaps part of the reason he was not called up.

DAM DC Twins Fans
09-03-2012, 09:23 PM
Escobar has really earned his call up from Rochester by hitting a putrid 224 with an OBP of .261
The Bill Smith Memorial Scholarship is alive and well.
Wait!!! I thought the Scholarship program had been canceled.

LMAO...

This is the one I dont understand. I was in favor of giving Dozier starts in Sept. OK--Gardy is throwing him under the bus for now--lets hope he gets the shot he deserves in spring training. But Escobar--224 at Rochester...failed with the ChiSox...he looks like a poor version of Lexi...what is he doing get called up. He wont be part of a contending team thats for sure.

Rosterman
09-03-2012, 09:32 PM
Hey, if someone picks up Slama in the Rule 5, the Twins get 50-grand for him, and if he fails, they don't have to take him back. Is that win-win for the current regime? On another note...every player called up in September makes what, $50,000 + road room/board?

spotchecker
09-03-2012, 09:35 PM
Hello to all of you folks at T.D.I don't know if i will be accepted as a BIG time MN sports fan from all of you folks but i trust you edjumacated guys will keep me in line if I happen to cross it.
As far as Slama goes who the hell knows what the problem is.
There is obviously some kind of an off field issue going on with him.
What else could it be!

Thrylos
09-03-2012, 09:51 PM
On another note...every player called up in September makes what, $50,000 + road room/board?

This is kind of the untold and unaccepted (by most) story. The actual amount is more like $85K/month they are in the bigs (prorated MLB minimum). This is about what the most veteran AAA players make in a season. So it is a monetary reward as well. Big time. So, when some of us are really irate that our favorite team has people like Butera make this much and people like Slama not, I hope you get that point of view.

And if you were in their shoes, I hope you feel the way they do. More than PAs or whatever. Merit. Ryan said he'll end the "scholarships" (or whatever he meant). He did not. The guys he got rid of (Marquis, Blackburn, Nishioka) all had guaranteed MLB contracts. Meanwhile Drew has a scholarship and Gardy and Co are tenured on a way to another 95+ loss season.

greengoblinrulz
09-03-2012, 10:05 PM
been in shock about the callups....they ARE EXCITED about Escobar (Gardy's quote!!!). There is no doubt they have now become the worst organization in baseball.....just a laughinstock even among his most fierce backers.
Think of it, they wont promote prospects....but Carson, Perdomo, Walters are brought up....can release all 3 & nobody would notice.
They have lost Deolis Guerra now without giving him one hitter to judge him on....at least Slama got 7 whole innings. PLEASE someone Rule V him!!!!
I hope they lose 95gms again next year so they can break some type of record.
Get ready for resignings of Carl Pavano, Joe Blanton, Jeremey Guthrie as the big offseason

snepp
09-03-2012, 10:09 PM
They have lost Deolis Guerra now without giving him one hitter to judge him on....

Did I miss something here?

YourHouseIsMyHouse
09-03-2012, 10:13 PM
The Twins would send all of New Britain or Rochester as call-ups rather than Slama. There always seems to be multiple scrubs that are 'seemingly' in the way.

Nick Nelson
09-03-2012, 10:17 PM
They have lost Deolis Guerra now without giving him one hitter to judge him on....

Did I miss something here?
He may be referring to the fact that Guerra will be out of options next year, although it seems like a rather ridiculous conclusion. There's a very good chance Guerra will break camp with the Twins next spring, which makes it all the more bizarre that they don't want to take a look at him now.

Badsmerf
09-03-2012, 10:35 PM
I can understand Guerra, maybe he is still dinged up. But Slama!!!! AAAhhhh I ****ing hate this management! I don't care what anyone says about "not knowing." We don't know the whole story blah blah. He dominated and doesn't even get a September call-up? They think Escobar and Perdomo might have a future but Slama clearly doesn't? My fury is hardly containable. Please Pohlad, clean this **** storm up. Your product is disgusting and the people making decisions are clearly inept.

snepp
09-03-2012, 10:37 PM
There's a very good chance Guerra will break camp with the Twins next spring, which makes it all the more bizarre that they don't want to take a look at him now.

Absolutely.


We get to take another look at Luis Perdomo though, that ought to be incredibly beneficial moving forward.

Nick Nelson
09-03-2012, 10:40 PM
But Slama!!!! AAAhhhh I ****ing hate this management! I don't care what anyone says about "not knowing." We don't know the whole story blah blah. He dominated and doesn't even get a September call-up?
Yeah, there's really no explanation that could excuse this. Even beyond the fact that he's an intriguing player that fans want to see, he's also a human being trying to make a living in the game. I'm starting to believe there is literally not a single thing this guy could do to get a major-league call-up. His numbers in Rochester could hardly be better. Aren't they trying to run a meritocracy where there are "no scholarships" and people need to earn their shot? This guy has done EVERYTHING to earn his shot, and they dismiss him off hand because of their notions about how his stuff will play in the majors. Just ****ing unreal.

Shane Wahl
09-03-2012, 10:43 PM
Guerra, Slama, and Dozier were the quite obvious call-ups. Escobar was bad at Rochester and is certainly not going to prove that he is the SS next year in September this year (and apparently, he doesn't even play SS now?).

I am completely confused by these decisions as affecting the MI and bullpen situations . . . I mean they HAVE the personnel to figure something out. Replacing Jeff Gray and potentially Alex Burnett and Anthony Swarzak with Guerra, Slama, and Waldrop is WORTH seeing the potential there. Spring alone is not enough. And Escobar is at best the utility infielder next year and that's only if there is an injury. Carroll is a sure thing and can play SS, even though he is better at 2B and 3B (bat not included, save for tonight!). The Twins were straight up weird about Dozier all year. He didn't deserve the callup, was kept too long, and NOW when it makes the most sense BY FAR to call him up . . . he is done?? That is bizarre as hell. Seeing a Florimon-Dozier middle infield would have been the best option, and I can't really see any possible counter-arguments.

Shane Wahl
09-03-2012, 10:49 PM
With regard to Guerra, there is no reason to lose him next year (someone would claim him, almost for sure). He is young and is probably a year away, but I would bet that he will be better in the majors in 2013 than Jeff Gray was in 2012.

For the sake of my sanity, I am trying to avoid talking about the Slama decision. It was to be expected . . . yet I still cannot believe it.

greengoblinrulz
09-03-2012, 10:53 PM
This is the organization that last fall when they had #2 waiver claims on anyone snapped up Esmeril Vazquez, Matt Maloney, Jeff Gray & Pedro Florimon before other teams could swoop in & grab these obvious talents. When one by one they realized THEY didnt want them on the 40 man, not a single team wanted them either.
These are the type of evaluations that are being done in this front office.
Add in Nick Blackburn, who every one knows is gonna be given at least 2 separate shots next year due to his contract & you see where this team is headed next summer.

Bark's Lounge
09-03-2012, 10:58 PM
I know some have, but I am hoping to solicit a few more in TD participants in jumping in on the the "Anthony Slama Petition". We need all the help we can get. Please participate.:)

greengoblinrulz
09-03-2012, 11:00 PM
With regard to Guerra, there is no reason to lose him next year (someone would claim him, almost for sure). He is young and is probably a year away, but I would bet that he will be better in the majors in 2013 than Jeff Gray was in 2012.

For the sake of my sanity, I am trying to avoid talking about the Slama decision. It was to be expected . . . yet I still cannot believe it.
Just think of how everyone is saying they havent lost Guerra yet......if he makes the team next spring, Its ONLY cause he's out of options. There has been nothing the last 2 yrs he couldve done to get a look....but now he's gonna be 'on scholarship?'......He's done without a look.
Im predicting they will keep Guerra, Manship, Vazquez, Walters, Carson, Deduno on the 40 man (all out of options) and after the 'new season' starts (after Rule V).....when real teams 40 man rosters are set, they will DFA these guys so they get sent to AAA instead of becoming 6yr FA's

Coach J
09-03-2012, 11:05 PM
I am not one for conspiracy theories.. but there is something going on here. I am convinced the Twins are determined to keep Slama down because they don't want to be proven wrong. Gardy doesn't seem to be a fan of his and I think if Slama came up and was successful it would make a lot of people in the organization look pretty foolish. I just feel so terrible for Anthony.. if we are this mad, imagine how he feels.

snepp
09-03-2012, 11:14 PM
Aren't there restrictions in place to keep teams from playing games with minor league free agency and/or the Rule 5?


My google magic is a little rusty tonight, I haven't been able to find anything.

Shane Wahl
09-03-2012, 11:21 PM
I am not one for conspiracy theories.. but there is something going on here. I am convinced the Twins are determined to keep Slama down because they don't want to be proven wrong. Gardy doesn't seem to be a fan of his and I think if Slama came up and was successful it would make a lot of people in the organization look pretty foolish. I just feel so terrible for Anthony.. if we are this mad, imagine how he feels.

I know, right? I know little about the kind of person Slama is, but I can imagine him saying . . . "trade me for that damn box of rocks, then." It defies all rationality to do this to him unless they don't want to look like idiots OR have some master plan to just start the season next year with him . . .

It is weird, but it is this situation and what it exemplifies that pushes me towards the "new blood" crowd and the pipe dream wish of firing TR, Gardy, and company (only new ownership would ever bring that about).

toma
09-03-2012, 11:58 PM
Dear Everyone,
You are interested in adding a 28-year old right-handed reliever to the 40 man roster because....??? Isn't Slama's upside to be Alex Burnett and more likely projects to take the place of Casey Fien or Kyle Waldrop except both of those players have the advantage of being on the 40 man roster. Right handed relief at the lower levels is probably the easiest and cheapest pitchers to replace on the team. I see no value in adding Anthony Slama to the 40 man roster. I would be shocked if he was selected in the Rule 5 draft.

jokin
09-04-2012, 12:12 AM
I am not one for conspiracy theories.. but there is something going on here. I am convinced the Twins are determined to keep Slama down because they don't want to be proven wrong. Gardy doesn't seem to be a fan of his and I think if Slama came up and was successful it would make a lot of people in the organization look pretty foolish. I just feel so terrible for Anthony.. if we are this mad, imagine how he feels.

I know, right? I know little about the kind of person Slama is, but I can imagine him saying . . . "trade me for that damn box of rocks, then." It defies all rationality to do this to him unless they don't want to look like idiots OR have some master plan to just start the season next year with him . . .

It is weird, but it is this situation and what it exemplifies that pushes me towards the "new blood" crowd and the pipe dream wish of firing TR, Gardy, and company (only new ownership would ever bring that about).

Welcome to the Darkside, Shane.:fenforcer:

beckmt
09-04-2012, 12:20 AM
Slama has been judged not to have the stuff for the major leagues. Do we need to waste more time on this.
Maybe the feeling on Dozier was he needed to grow up and take responsibility, this could not be done in 3 weeks.
Twins need to find out what they have now and move on, not spread AB's and innings into small samples.
Grey will probably not be here next year.
Twins brass seems to like Swarzak better than Manship or they are viewed as the same type of pitcher.
Remember every loss now helps our draft position next June

righty8383
09-04-2012, 12:21 AM
Dear Everyone,
You are interested in adding a 28-year old right-handed reliever to the 40 man roster because....??? Isn't Slama's upside to be Alex Burnett and more likely projects to take the place of Casey Fien or Kyle Waldrop except both of those players have the advantage of being on the 40 man roster. Right handed relief at the lower levels is probably the easiest and cheapest pitchers to replace on the team. I see no value in adding Anthony Slama to the 40 man roster. I would be shocked if he was selected in the Rule 5 draft.

You just don't get it do you? Nobody is predicted he will be the next Dennis Eckersley. And those players you mentioned, never dominated on the leval that Slama has. All people are saying is he deserves a real chance. He deserved a chance earlier in the year, he deserved a chance after he came back from injury, and he deserves a chance now.

So again, who cares what you or anybody else thinks his "upside" could be, the numbers he has put up year after year can not be ignored.

Shane Wahl
09-04-2012, 12:21 AM
I am not one for conspiracy theories.. but there is something going on here. I am convinced the Twins are determined to keep Slama down because they don't want to be proven wrong. Gardy doesn't seem to be a fan of his and I think if Slama came up and was successful it would make a lot of people in the organization look pretty foolish. I just feel so terrible for Anthony.. if we are this mad, imagine how he feels.

I know, right? I know little about the kind of person Slama is, but I can imagine him saying . . . "trade me for that damn box of rocks, then." It defies all rationality to do this to him unless they don't want to look like idiots OR have some master plan to just start the season next year with him . . .

It is weird, but it is this situation and what it exemplifies that pushes me towards the "new blood" crowd and the pipe dream wish of firing TR, Gardy, and company (only new ownership would ever bring that about).

Welcome to the Darkside, Shane.:fenforcer:

It took me awhile, but yeah. Minor league promotions, promotions to the MLB club, the payroll situation, and the medical situation have combined to make it closer and closer for me. This pushes me over.

toma
09-04-2012, 12:41 AM
Dear Everyone,
You are interested in adding a 28-year old right-handed reliever to the 40 man roster because....??? Isn't Slama's upside to be Alex Burnett and more likely projects to take the place of Casey Fien or Kyle Waldrop except both of those players have the advantage of being on the 40 man roster. Right handed relief at the lower levels is probably the easiest and cheapest pitchers to replace on the team. I see no value in adding Anthony Slama to the 40 man roster. I would be shocked if he was selected in the Rule 5 draft.

You just don't get it do you? Nobody is predicted he will be the next Dennis Eckersley. And those players you mentioned, never dominated on the leval that Slama has. All people are saying is he deserves a real chance. He deserved a chance earlier in the year, he deserved a chance after he came back from injury, and he deserves a chance now.

So again, who cares what you or anybody else thinks his "upside" could be, the numbers he has put up year after year can not be ignored.

I agree, I don't care what I think. I care what you think. Let's say you were the GM of the Twins and you have one open 40 man roster spot. Looking at the current strengths and weaknesses on the roster, tell me why you think the most pressing need is to fill that spot with a 28-year old right handed reliever with very impressive numbers in the International League.

Nick Nelson
09-04-2012, 01:07 AM
Let's say you were the GM of the Twins and you have one open 40 man roster spot. Looking at the current strengths and weaknesses on the roster, tell me why you think the most pressing need is to fill that spot with a 28-year old right handed reliever with very impressive numbers in the International League.
You're right, better just to leave it open and not use it.

righty8383
09-04-2012, 01:11 AM
The most pressing need, that would be an overstatement but I get what you're saying.Just because he is 28 does not mean he has no value and no future. I have no clue how he might do in the bigs but this is the best time to find out. I will share this Terry Ryan quote one more time just in case you missed it...


The types of guys we're talking about are guys who have earned the promotion from what they've done at Triple-A or Double-A.
So let me ask, how did Eduardo Escobar "earn" a promotion but Slama didn't

Shane Wahl
09-04-2012, 01:14 AM
Dear Everyone,
You are interested in adding a 28-year old right-handed reliever to the 40 man roster because....??? Isn't Slama's upside to be Alex Burnett and more likely projects to take the place of Casey Fien or Kyle Waldrop except both of those players have the advantage of being on the 40 man roster. Right handed relief at the lower levels is probably the easiest and cheapest pitchers to replace on the team. I see no value in adding Anthony Slama to the 40 man roster. I would be shocked if he was selected in the Rule 5 draft.



You just don't get it do you? Nobody is predicted he will be the next Dennis Eckersley. And those players you mentioned, never dominated on the leval that Slama has. All people are saying is he deserves a real chance. He deserved a chance earlier in the year, he deserved a chance after he came back from injury, and he deserves a chance now.

So again, who cares what you or anybody else thinks his "upside" could be, the numbers he has put up year after year can not be ignored.

I agree, I don't care what I think. I care what you think. Let's say you were the GM of the Twins and you have one open 40 man roster spot. Looking at the current strengths and weaknesses on the roster, tell me why you think the most pressing need is to fill that spot with a 28-year old right handed reliever with very impressive numbers in the International League.


Leave it open for what reason? The last 3-4 spots should be a revolving door anyway.

JP3700
09-04-2012, 05:13 AM
I don't understand why some people are bashing Escobar and saying Dozier deserved to be called up. Out of the 5 tools, Escobar grades better in 3 categories and virtually even in the other 2. People laugh at Escobar's line at Rochester, but Dozier has been even worse since being optioned. That, after looking completely lost in his last 3 months in the majors.

If I'm going to have a weak hitting middle infielder on my roster, I would rather have the one with better range, a better arm, more speed, and can actually get a bunt down to move a runner over. These qualities at least have some value to my team, for defense and situational hitting. Add the fact that Escobar is 2 years younger than Dozier! I think it makes a lot of sense that he was the one called up.

peterb18
09-04-2012, 07:47 AM
[QUOTE=joeboo_22;51554As far as Slama, again as I have previously stated, I am not a big fan of his, I don't think he will become a MLB closer, but at the same time even an idiot would have to admit he warrants a September call-up on a last place team..

I don't think any of us think that Slama will be a big league closer. His stuff has been questioned. His control is questionable. There are plenty of reasons not to believe he'll be great. However, at least my point is that, until big league hitters show it, he should at least be given a shot! Not 7 innings over 2 seasons of time, but a legit opportunity. We've seen the Twins give lots of guys with worse control an opportunity this year and last. He just deserves the chance.[/QUOTE]

Seth has it exactly right. However, sometimes athletes have an ability to do something without the required fundamentals. Like a hockey player who doesn't skate well, etc. but, he can just put the puck into the net. Same with Slama--maybe there is something about him that he can just get people out! That is why he deserves a chance.

Blackjack
09-04-2012, 08:45 AM
Pretty interesting, almost humorous, reading the discussion on who was or wasn’t called up. :angry: All season long posters have wanted the Twins to make moves to get better but now they outraged because a guy (Slama) that everybody agrees is pretty average wasn’t rewarded. Which is it, make moves to get better or reward a minor leaguer?? There are only so many at bats and innings to pitch, use them on evaluating guys, so the front office knows what moves they need to make for 2013. Slama will get his chance in spring training, if he does well, he’ll go north with the team. Same way with Dozier, this snub will hopefully give him some motivation to work hard and make the team out of spring training.


I’d rather see them promote and evaluate guys for 2013.

COtwin
09-04-2012, 10:42 AM
I disagree. I think many of the posters on this site knew that this season was lost in April and May. We have wanted call-ups to see what we have for the future. If the guys we have up are underperforming journeyman, why not see an underperforming prospect. I actually agree with Perdomo call up as long as he sees some consistent innings. Escobar could very well be a utility type, but don't we have four of those up now. Dozier should have been brought up in my opinion, for the very purpose of trying to right the ship that is his season. I have said this before, Carrolll needs to not see such consistent innings. I think that someone close to him needs to tell Gardy that Utility types don't play everyday. Especially Old, Expensive, Defined utility types. Slama, I agree with everyone else.

Shane Wahl
09-04-2012, 10:54 AM
The thing about Carroll is that he is going ape right now. The dude somehow hit a home run yesterday. This could have been used in April and May instead, certainly! The complaint about Dozier is not simply about not getting called up. It is about the total mismanagement of him this year. They promoted him without giving him a chance to work out in AAA first (after doing great in A and very good in AA), then they kept him around when he was clearly overmatched, then they sent him down, oddly, with only a few weeks left in the Rochester season, and now they have ended his season without him doing anything! That's inept and/or insane.

Furthermore, Escobar has never been good offensively in the minors. Unlike Dozier, he has demonstrated no offensive prowess ever in the minors. I am also confused about his defense . . . where is he going to play? I thought he was a SS, but apparently he is more like a 3B/2B utility type. That's not very good. I see him as potentially replacing Jamey Carroll in 2014 in what hopefully is Carroll's 2013 role (utility man). That means AAA time and probably what should have been AFL time.

Trying out a Florimon-Dozier MI would have been worth seeing, clearly. That is obviously true.

StormJH1
09-04-2012, 11:02 AM
I disagree. I think many of the posters on this site knew that this season was lost in April and May. We have wanted call-ups to see what we have for the future. If the guys we have up are underperforming journeyman, why not see an underperforming prospect. I actually agree with Perdomo call up as long as he sees some consistent innings. Escobar could very well be a utility type, but don't we have four of those up now. Dozier should have been brought up in my opinion, for the very purpose of trying to right the ship that is his season. I have said this before, Carrolll needs to not see such consistent innings. I think that someone close to him needs to tell Gardy that Utility types don't play everyday. Especially Old, Expensive, Defined utility types. Slama, I agree with everyone else.

Yeah, I agree with all of this. In the case of Slama, I feel like time is just ticking away. Maybe this guy has just found some useful niche or trick to getting hitters out, in ways that defy traditional logic. People felt like that about Neshek when he came up, except there was a clearer explanation for that based on his unusual delivery. Well, Slama's pretty consistently gotten hitters out at an alarmingly effective rate, except he's been asked only to do that in AAA. I do disagree that most posters here assume Slama will be average. Slama's "stuff" is decidedly average, but his minor league results have been anything but. And until he gets an extended opportunity (even in mop-up ball) to try and fail, how can we make ANY assumptions about him?

As for the call-ups, I think it's a real problem if you continue to fill out lineup cards with Jamey Carroll and Alexi Casilla BOTH in the lineup, when most people assume that the former will be here next year for sure, while the latter very likely may not. If that's the case, what are you trying to prove? We know what Casilla is - I happen to think he's undervalued as a utility player, but if the team decides to move on from him in favor of a Dozier or Florimon, then so be it. But those guys need to PLAY, and so do your other options. Carroll's never really played a full season as a starter anyway, and that's not what he was acquired for. I want to evaluate guys that could have a role here next year because I'm not so sure they'll go out and make another IF signing. Heck, if not Dozier, why not try Mastroianni at 2B in the bigs?

toma
09-04-2012, 11:30 AM
Next season, the Twins will likely bring 8 RHP starter candidates, some of them will make the rotation, some of them may be optioned or released, but probably 2 of these candidates will end up in the bullpen. They may also decide they want to bring Baker back but they don't want to rush him into alot of innings and he may end up in the bullpen. Under these circumstances, I don't think Slama will break Spring Training with the club. The root issue is without consistent starting pitching, the team will hide starting pitcher candidates in the bullpen, AAA, AA. This will shut Slama off of the active roster and it is doubtful he will be added to the 40-man roster unless the team decides he is a candidate to start.

USAFChief
09-04-2012, 12:25 PM
How many MLB teams put themselves in a position where, down 4-2 in the 9th with a runner on, both Jamie Carroll and Alexi Casilla have to hit for themselves because there isnt a long ball threat on the bench...AFTER September call ups?

What a joke this franchise has turned into.

Shane Wahl
09-04-2012, 12:31 PM
How many MLB teams put themselves in a position where, down 4-2 in the 9th with a runner on, both Jamie Carroll and Alexi Casilla have to hit for themselves because there isnt a long ball threat on the bench...AFTER September call ups?

What a joke this franchise has turned into.

Haha, I know. Chris Colabello, Deibinson Romero, Evan Bigley . . . for guys they could have called up for that. Or, not using Doumit when they did (forcing Thornton to come in and then having to turn Doumit around!? and not using Matt Carson as a pinch RUNNER).

peterb18
09-04-2012, 02:17 PM
How many MLB teams put themselves in a position where, down 4-2 in the 9th with a runner on, both Jamie Carroll and Alexi Casilla have to hit for themselves because there isnt a long ball threat on the bench...AFTER September call ups?

What a joke this franchise has turned into.

USAChief has got this right. I remember listening to Baseball America(XM radio) this spring, and a caller from Iowa asked about the Twins. The hosts said they couldn't figure out the Twins. They said that when a team has 94 wins(two years ago), most clubs would try and take the next step and add players. But the Twins chose to go the other way and not sign players, etc. Therefore, improvement depends upon the Pohlads. When they decide to have a winning team again, we will, most likely, have one!

JP3700
09-04-2012, 05:53 PM
The thing about Carroll is that he is going ape right now. The dude somehow hit a home run yesterday. This could have been used in April and May instead, certainly! The complaint about Dozier is not simply about not getting called up. It is about the total mismanagement of him this year. They promoted him without giving him a chance to work out in AAA first (after doing great in A and very good in AA), then they kept him around when he was clearly overmatched, then they sent him down, oddly, with only a few weeks left in the Rochester season, and now they have ended his season without him doing anything! That's inept and/or insane.

Furthermore, Escobar has never been good offensively in the minors. Unlike Dozier, he has demonstrated no offensive prowess ever in the minors. I am also confused about his defense . . . where is he going to play? I thought he was a SS, but apparently he is more like a 3B/2B utility type. That's not very good. I see him as potentially replacing Jamey Carroll in 2014 in what hopefully is Carroll's 2013 role (utility man). That means AAA time and probably what should have been AFL time.

Trying out a Florimon-Dozier MI would have been worth seeing, clearly. That is obviously true.

Dozier isn't the only one who's been mismanaged. Escobar played everyday for years and for some reason this year he was turned into a guy who got less than one AB a day at age 23. Ask guys like Parmelee or even a comparable guy like Casilla how tough that transition is.

As far as Dozier showing offensive prowess compared to Escobar, yes he put up better numbers at A-AA ball but keep in mind Dozier was 3 years older at every comparable level Escobar was at. I'm not saying Escobar will ever be a good batter, but I do think Dozier's numbers are inflated given his age vs. level and it obviously has caught up to him.

As for Escobar's position, he is a SS that can play 2B and 3B. In 2011 he was Chicago's number 5 ranked prospect. He had just put up respectable numbers as a 21 year old in AA and was quoted to be a wizard at SS. His comparison was to Erick Aybar who I would take as my everyday SS in a heartbeat.

The fact that some people are considering Florimon our SS of the future to me is a joke when Escobar is 2 years younger, is as good defensively, and put up slightly better numbers offensively in his full season at AAA at age 22 compared to Florimon at age 25. I'm not saying he's the solution but he deserves more of a shot than Florimon does..

LaBombo
09-04-2012, 06:11 PM
Pretty interesting, almost humorous, reading the discussion on who was or wasn’t called up. :angry: All season long posters have wanted the Twins to make moves to get better but now they outraged because a guy (Slama) that everybody agrees is pretty average wasn’t rewarded....

It's hard to imagine how somebody can think that even an "average" reliever can't possibly offer anything of value to an organization that gave 52 innings of 'relief' work to Jeff Gray, and another 52 to the law firm of Maloney, Manship, and Robertson. And there's hardly universal agreement that Slama could never put together a season that's a tick above average.

And if second-guessing the Twins' callups seems trivial to you, just remember that the organization you've invested your blind faith in has brought this on themselves by following up a 99 loss season with another stink bomb effort and a promise by Ryan that virtually nothing will change. In other words, wtf else is there to talk about? The incredibly stupid 'Mauer waived!' story?