PDA

View Full Version : Article: Minor signings make impact



Seth Stohs
08-30-2012, 03:17 AM
You can view the page at http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.php?986-Minor-signings-make-impact

old nurse
08-30-2012, 08:07 AM
When you add Vasquez, Maloney, Gray, Thomas and any other waiver claims they made to your list of additions it looks like a pretty good expansion draft. Ryan has always done well plucking talent from other organizations. If only his scouts could do that at the high school level.

Seth Stohs
08-30-2012, 08:34 AM
Very good point. They claimed Vasquez on the final weekend last year. Then they claimed Florimon after the season. Maloney may have been OK if not for the elbow problems that led to Tommy John. Gray was pretty bad, but he had moments early in the season. Thomas has been decent for Rochester during their run.

I'd say Ryan's scouts have done pretty well finding high school talent... Morneau, Mauer, Kubel, Span, Parmelee, Swarzak, Waldrop, Plouffe, Revere. So far so good with Buxton and Berrios. Not sure what there is to complain about there.

gil4
08-30-2012, 09:07 AM
Deduno reminds me of Scott Erickson. His best pitch is a fastball that has so much movement that he doesn't know where it's going. Erickson put it all together fairly early and was dominant for 2/3 of a season. Then he hurt his elbow and was never the same again.

I'm hoping that last night's game was Deduno figuring something out and putting it all together and it's the beginning of sustainable success for him (as opposed to the 5 K 6BB success he has been having.) And I hope he doesn't hurt his elbow.

Ricola
08-30-2012, 09:20 AM
I believe Deduno struck out a career high nine batters last evening.

When you look at all of the "minor" additions in aggregate, I think we're seeing progress.

Seth Stohs
08-30-2012, 09:28 AM
You are correct. I don't know why I typed 'seven.' It's been corrected.

minn55441
08-30-2012, 09:48 AM
The question is if TR can pluck a similar number of minor finds this off season. If he can, is that enough to correct the path of this organization? From what I have read recently, that is TR plan this off season. No big splash. No starting pitchers signed to multi-year deals. Just another year of minor deals. A player here, a player there.

If the twins were dealing from a position of strength, by that I mean a plus .500 club with plenty of players currently at Rochester just waiting for their shot, this strategy would work. As we have a discussed, that is not the current situation of this franchise. I don't think another successful season of making minor moves is going to move us far enough to be competitive. I know Ryan doesn't believe in concept of overpaying for starting pitching, but at this point we have no choice.

Rosterman
08-30-2012, 10:00 AM
There is always players out there, the 26th/27th, or 42st/42nd...and the joy is that they ARE talented. Just got pushed out because there is someone younger in the wings. Plus, they are hungry. The other thing Ryan is usually good at is jettisoning the player for a prospect.....something he might've done earlier for, say, Gray.

Seth Stohs
08-30-2012, 10:14 AM
The question is if TR can pluck a similar number of minor finds this off season. If he can, is that enough to correct the path of this organization? From what I have read recently, that is TR plan this off season. No big splash. No starting pitchers signed to multi-year deals. Just another year of minor deals. A player here, a player there.

If the twins were dealing from a position of strength, by that I mean a plus .500 club with plenty of players currently at Rochester just waiting for their shot, this strategy would work. As we have a discussed, that is not the current situation of this franchise. I don't think another successful season of making minor moves is going to move us far enough to be competitive. I know Ryan doesn't believe in concept of overpaying for starting pitching, but at this point we have no choice.

No, signing good minor league free agents aren't going to bring a team from 95+ losses to 85+ wins. they're generally brought in to help the AAA team win more games and just be depth. Finding a minor league free agent to provide as much value as Jared Burton has is incredible. If Deduno pans out and can become a middle of the rotation starter, that would be incredible.

TR knows that minor league F/A isn't the way to division titles. he's a very smart guy who keeps things close to the vest. I 100% agree with him that overpaying for anyone is crazy. The Twins will need quality starting pitchers to turn this around. That doesn't mean getting the $20 million guys. They never pan out. I think they need to grab 2-3 $6-8 million starters.

Mr. Ed
08-30-2012, 10:38 AM
Congrats to Dude.

Now don't let Gardy and Andy coach your style and movement out of you. Otherwise you'll just be another Blackburn.

birdwatcher
08-30-2012, 10:40 AM
minn55441, you have not read anything from the mouths of Twins ownership or front office that the plan this off-season is to strictly rely on these types of pick-ups. You perhaps read comments from bloggers, or Souhan's garbage column, that have led you to this false understanding.

jokin
08-30-2012, 10:45 AM
Congrats to Dude.

Now don't let Gardy and Andy coach your style and movement out of you. Otherwise you'll just be another Blackburn.

The "Dude" De-du-no wrong last night

jokin
08-30-2012, 10:55 AM
The question is if TR can pluck a similar number of minor finds this off season. If he can, is that enough to correct the path of this organization? From what I have read recently, that is TR plan this off season. No big splash. No starting pitchers signed to multi-year deals. Just another year of minor deals. A player here, a player there.

If the twins were dealing from a position of strength, by that I mean a plus .500 club with plenty of players currently at Rochester just waiting for their shot, this strategy would work. As we have a discussed, that is not the current situation of this franchise. I don't think another successful season of making minor moves is going to move us far enough to be competitive. I know Ryan doesn't believe in concept of overpaying for starting pitching, but at this point we have no choice.



No, signing good minor league free agents aren't going to bring a team from 95+ losses to 85+ wins. they're generally brought in to help the AAA team win more games and just be depth. Finding a minor league free agent to provide as much value as Jared Burton has is incredible. If Deduno pans out and can become a middle of the rotation starter, that would be incredible.

TR knows that minor league F/A isn't the way to division titles. he's a very smart guy who keeps things close to the vest. I 100% agree with him that overpaying for anyone is crazy. The Twins will need quality starting pitchers to turn this around. That doesn't mean getting the $20 million guys. They never pan out. I think they need to grab 2-3 $6-8 million starters.



A & E signs Terry Ryan to 13-week reality series

Agreed, although it definitely won't happen, Seth. I would organize a parade for merely 2 Maholm/Bedard-level signings, a waiver deal by business-close tomorrow and a Minor League acquisition via trade, and Twins fans would be lucky if 1 out of 4 of those things occurs.

This team and Ryan's philosophy for team-building is truly a "Storage Wars"-devotees dream.

minn55441
08-30-2012, 11:07 AM
minn55441, you have not read anything from the mouths of Twins ownership or front office that the plan this off-season is to strictly rely on these types of pick-ups. You perhaps read comments from bloggers, or Souhan's garbage column, that have led you to this false understanding.

I don't read Souhan and I take what bloggers say with a grain of salt, which is to say their opinion is worth what I paid to read it.

I pay close attention what Terry, Gardy and the other team officials have to say, because they are the ones that actually make an impact. With that said, I have a lot of faith in the Twin's organization, probably more than what most on this site would admit to. I see TR making changes to improve the long term health of the Twins organization, things like picking up minor league free agents. Taking a rule 5 here, making a small trade there. I can see TR making a couple of FA signing like he did last off season, Doumit and Willingham, only have them be pitchers. His strategy will get us back to respectability and eventually to a competitive position.

My point is that we are in a position, where our core group of players are good enough, so that if we add enough quality pitching we can return to be competitive sooner rather than later. I am a Terry Ryan fan. I am happy with the decision to bring him back. I think he will eventually prove that he is up to the task and will return this franchise to contending for a title within 5-7 years. I would hope that we can make a one time exception to his long standing beliefs and go out and get a quality starting pitcher to lead this staff. From what I have read from Terry Ryan, Rob Antony, Wayne Krivsky et al, I don't think they see the need to break from the game plan. We are on a long slow recovery.

Please let me know if I have a false understanding and there are comments from someone in the Twins baseball operations staff, that have stated that they plan on signing a quality starting pitcher to a long term deal and that we will win the division title next season.

Seth you are probably correct in that TR has always held his cards close to the vest and that there is no advantage to tipping his hand at this point.

greengoblinrulz
08-30-2012, 01:56 PM
while a couple of the minor league moves have worked out/helped for time being.....I still wish we would give our own prospects the same chances that we give to other teams garbage/castoffs.
I know it was during the time MN was very good and none of these players are stars, but MN never gave opportunites to Steve Tolleson, Jason Pridie, Darnell McDonald, Garrett Jones, Trent Oiltjen, Kevin Cameron, Phil Humber etc & other teams have

Ex-Iowegian
08-30-2012, 02:21 PM
Before ST this year, it seemed that TR was trying tobolster not only the Twins, but every level of the minor leagues.Rochester had a horrible year last year if I recall, and attempting to put some serviceableadditions at all levels seemed apparent with the number of bodies that gotinvited to Ft Meyers. Must have been some positive results, judging byimprovement of records at those lower levels. Coupled with not having to raid playersall the way down to AA like they had to in 2011, it seems the AA and AAA franchisesstabilized a little, even if those players may never make the Big Leagues.Sometimes it seems the overall business moves that need to be addressed are lost in thespotlight. To me, it set the tone for the entire year. He understands the needsof the entire organization.

greengoblinrulz
08-30-2012, 02:29 PM
No doubt that the minor league signing are still playing catchup for those couple of years that the minor league system was so bad.
New Brit players are pretty solid this year so the AAA team should be fairly sound. Ft Myers roster doesnt show many that will get a shot in AA, so that may be where MN starts to stack some minor league retreads.

LaBombo
08-30-2012, 05:18 PM
Nice article, but the info on Steve Pearce is not quite correct. He was originally drafted but not signed by the Red Sox in 2004, and then drafted and signed by the Pirates in 2005. He spent 7 seasons with the Pirates organization and earned the dreaded 'quad A' label by crushing AAA pitching but never achieving sustained success in 685 PA's spread out over 6 seasons. He was at the very least a worthwhile gamble by a Twins organization with a serious lack of depth in the high minors.

Thrylos
08-30-2012, 08:46 PM
Yes. Several of the players who were picked up and signed to minor league contacts did contribute and did make a positive impression and can potentially be part of the solution in the future

but

we cannot talk about "impact" in a 96-97 loss team. This team has so many problems and is so fundamentally flawed that the contributions of a few of these guys do not really matter that much.

greengoblinrulz
08-30-2012, 10:42 PM
The list also doesnt include massive failure signings of Jeff Gray, Matt Maloney & Matt Rizzotti.....as well as lesser failures in Eric Komatsu & Clete Thomas as well as a signing I didnt like at the time but turned out in Esmeril Vazquez. When they sign 20 players, a couple of em will turn out to be assets....problem is they had to sign 20 of em because they refuse to give their own prospects the chance

Nick Nelson
08-31-2012, 01:32 AM
Yes. Several of the players who were picked up and signed to minor league contacts did contribute and did make a positive impression and can potentially be part of the solution in the future

but

we cannot talk about "impact" in a 96-97 loss team. This team has so many problems and is so fundamentally flawed that the contributions of a few of these guys do not really matter that much.

Yes. No one is allowed to talk about anything positive. Nothing good matters.

Thrylos
08-31-2012, 05:26 AM
Yes. Several of the players who were picked up and signed to minor league contacts did contribute and did make a positive impression and can potentially be part of the solution in the future

but

we cannot talk about "impact" in a 96-97 loss team. This team has so many problems and is so fundamentally flawed that the contributions of a few of these guys do not really matter that much.

Yes. No one is allowed to talk about anything positive. Nothing good matters.

I think you misunderstood me. It is great to talk about positives but one cannot talk about impact in a 95+ loss team. As I said, there are positives about these guys, but their impact is minimal.

Semantics

old nurse
08-31-2012, 06:05 AM
Yes. Several of the players who were picked up and signed to minor league contacts did contribute and did make a positive impression and can potentially be part of the solution in the future

but

we cannot talk about "impact" in a 96-97 loss team. This team has so many problems and is so fundamentally flawed that the contributions of a few of these guys do not really matter that much.

Yes. No one is allowed to talk about anything positive. Nothing good matters.

I think you misunderstood me. It is great to talk about positives but one cannot talk about impact in a 95+ loss team. As I said, there are positives about these guys, but their impact is minimal.

Semantics

The impact of a FA like Willingham and Burton can be talked about in a 96-97 loss season. Like without them the Twins might be the Astros. When talking about minor leaguers that are still developing there needs to be a longer window to assess impact.

birdwatcher
08-31-2012, 10:10 AM
The impact of these signings was hugely positive. The fact that they weren't impactful to the WL record is salient, but many of us see the positives. Avoiding the distorted "all or nothing" viewpoint that the glass is shuttered all over the floor is important. The glass is half full!

Willingham was a great signing, and so was Doumit. Burton is an indication that the Twins are still capable of excellent scouting. Same with Fien, Maestro, Florimon, Deduno, Walters, and a number of others.

Let's face it, the team had way too many holes to fill to expect them all to be filled in one or two seasons. If that was your expectation, no doubt you're frustrated. So, they spent some dough, wisely in the case of Willinham and Doumit, not so wisely in the case of Capp and a few others. Then, they scrounged. Bad teams scrounge, especiallt when they have no trade chips, which was the case last year.

What's different going forward?

1. They have at least some trade chips.
2. They have at least some salary room.
3. They have many fewer holes to fill.
4. In my opinion, they're on a intermediate-term plan to be at least mediocre in 2013, competitive in 2014 with a lot of first-year players getting baptized, division-winners by 2015, and serious pennant contenders by 2016 when this wave of top-notch talent begins to mature.